Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
Yeah. ... or a bit of that Chinese 'missile damaged' satellite! - Grrr how irresponsible was that?! M. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob McCafferty Sent: 03 February 2007 20:17 To: Gerald Flaherty; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris --- Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but a centimeter sized particle traveling at those speeds?? Help. Jerry Flaherty What Darren said is how I understand it too. As for 1cm particles, nah This shield is designed to protect against micrometeorids travelling at a relative speed of 20km/s. It'll not protect you from big stuff though I suppose the relative speeds of orbital debris is likely travelling much slower. Even so, wouldn't fancy their chances against a pea sized bit of weather sat even if it ONLY had a collision speed of 1000m/s Rob McC It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
Hi Sterling: I am not a munitions expert, but I think it would be more appropriate to compare the meteoroid with a speeding bullet. The TNT energy is released in all directions while a bullet's (or meteoroid's) energy is directional (at the target). I have seen what the window of the Shuttle looks like after it has been hit by a paintflake. It looked like a beebee gun had been using the window for target practice.: http://www.biblehelp.org/ufo4.htm Larry On Sat, February 3, 2007 5:55 pm, Sterling K. Webb wrote: Hi, Rob, Darren, List, One gram traveling at 1000 m/sec, when stopped abruptly, releases its kinetic energy, which is 1000 joules [kg x (m/s)^2]. The combustion energy of TNT is 4600 joules per gram, so that energy release is the equivalent is 217 milligrams of TNT. Doesn't sound like that much, does it? In the USA, the legal limit for fireworks is 50 milligrams of pyrotechnic material. [Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16, Volume 2, Section 1500.85]. This is the traditional M-50, or perhaps the cherry bomb. Since pyrotechnics are weaker than TNT, imagine four to eight cherry bombs concentrated on one tiny spot... Of course, today's cherry bombs are not as good as yesterday's (pre-regulation) cherry bombs, but as a child, I fractured the brass casing (3 x 12) of a shell for 37mm anti-aircraft cannon with ONE cherry bomb. No better fun for an nine-year-old than a bagful of small high explosives and a bunch of old cannon shells, is there? How thick are the walls of your space station? Your space suit? Your visor? That hose you're breathing through? Or any of the thousands of things you need to stay alive? If that gram is coming in from beyond the Earth's gravity, you could close on it at almost 20 km/sec, the equivalent is about 85 grams of TNT. Disastrous. If the orbit of a piece of rubble is not oriented with your orbit, but at an angle to it, you and the object are crossing at some vector product of your velocities. This is the most serious and likely hazard. If you were in an equatorial orbit and the rubble was in a polar orbit and you had a geometrically perfect collision, the impact velocity would be 1.414 times the orbital velocity, with each gram carrying the equivalent of 27.3 grams of TNT in kinetic energy. Known in the trade as the Chop Suey Special. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Rob McCafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris --- Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but a centimeter sized particle traveling at those speeds?? Help. Jerry Flaherty What Darren said is how I understand it too. As for 1cm particles, nah This shield is designed to protect against micrometeorids travelling at a relative speed of 20km/s. It'll not protect you from big stuff though I suppose the relative speeds of orbital debris is likely travelling much slower. Even so, wouldn't fancy their chances against a pea sized bit of weather sat even if it ONLY had a collision speed of 1000m/s Rob McC __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
Additionally, in the space between the bumper sheet and the containment wall, the particle fragment cloud expands to impact a larger surface area of the containment wall, thereby eliminating concentrated energetic impact of the fragments on a single point on the wall, and increasing the penetration resistance of the wall. In existing structures such as a space station, the structural design is quite intricate with many interrelated trade-off of parameters and the existing designs have a Whipple Shield for the crew area which is designed to provide protection against hypervelocity impact matter. With increasing concerns regarding protection against the accumulating orbital debris in space and its size, it is desirable to enhance the protection capability of existing Whipple Shields without requiring expensive redesign or without significantly increasing weight. SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION The present invention is a system for enhancing the protection capabilities of existing Whipple Shield structures against penetration by hypervelocity impact particles and for enabling greater protection capabilities for new Whipple Shield structures against penetration by hypervelocity impact matter at reduced structural weight and/or stand off (spacing) distances. Thanks Rick, Darren and Rob Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Rick Davis To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris see http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5610363-description.html From: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob McCafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 14:38:42 -0500 I'm shocked that such a meager device can successfully protect against high velocity impacts from debris? Why does it vaporize and not continue through? The gel in the Stardust collector showed particles penetrating several millimeters into the material. I see that the gel and the foil are different materials, the former meant to collect but a centimeter sized particle traveling at those speeds?? Help. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rob McCafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 07:22:36 -0800 (PST), you wrote: Does anyone know more about the 'anti-meteorite system' that protects the ISS from being struck? 'Shields Up Scotty!' I believe it's as simple as a couple of layers of baking foil mounted over the main body of the station. The foil and impactor are vaporised by the impact and the vapour cannot penetrate do damage to the habitation modules. I believe the whole skin of the The term is Whipple shield or Whipple barrier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipple_shield __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
Better Yet! In the present invention, layered cloth elements are disposed and located intermediate of the outer bumper wall and the rearward wall. The layered cloth elements include a ceramic cloth disposed in a facing relationship to the bumper wall. Ceramic cloth is herein defined as a pliable material made by weaving, felting, embedding or knitting ceramic fibers, threads and/or filaments in to a fabric. Ceramic is defined herein as a material composed of metal oxides such as aluminum oxide, silicon dioxide, boron oxide and other metal oxides. The ceramic cloth provides an impact shock layer which has significant strength and flexibility at high temperatures for extended time periods. The purpose of the ceramic cloth is to shock and break up an incoming particle and disperse it in a spray form. In juxtaposition with the ceramic cloth is a high strength cloth disposed in facing relationship to the rearward wall. A high strength cloth is defined herein as a pliable material made by weaving, felting, embedding or knitting high strength/low weight fibers, threads and/or filament. High strength/low weight is defined herein as a fiber, thread and/or filament having a specific strength greater than 9×106 inches (where specific strength=fiber ultimate tensile strength/fiber density) for units of pounds force per square inch divided by pounds (mass) per cubic inch. The high strength cloth provides a capability to disperse for ultimate tensile strength and retard the fragment spray cloud or fragments resulting from penetration of the ceramic cloth before impact with the rearward wall. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Rick Davis To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris see http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5610363-description.html From: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob McCafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 14:38:42 -0500 I'm shocked that such a meager device can successfully protect against high velocity impacts from debris? Why does it vaporize and not continue through? The gel in the Stardust collector showed particles penetrating several millimeters into the material. I see that the gel and the foil are different materials, the former meant to collect but a centimeter sized particle traveling at those speeds?? Help. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rob McCafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 07:22:36 -0800 (PST), you wrote: Does anyone know more about the 'anti-meteorite system' that protects the ISS from being struck? 'Shields Up Scotty!' I believe it's as simple as a couple of layers of baking foil mounted over the main body of the station. The foil and impactor are vaporised by the impact and the vapour cannot penetrate do damage to the habitation modules. I believe the whole skin of the The term is Whipple shield or Whipple barrier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipple_shield __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
-- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris Hi Sterling: I am not a munitions expert, but I think it would be more appropriate to compare the meteoroid with a speeding bullet. The TNT energy is released in all directions while a bullet's (or meteoroid's) energy is directional (at the target). I have seen what the window of the Shuttle looks like after it has been hit by a paintflake. It looked like a beebee gun had been using the window for target practice.: http://www.biblehelp.org/ufo4.htm Larry On Sat, February 3, 2007 5:55 pm, Sterling K. Webb wrote: Hi, Rob, Darren, List, One gram traveling at 1000 m/sec, when stopped abruptly, releases its kinetic energy, which is 1000 joules [kg x (m/s)^2]. The combustion energy of TNT is 4600 joules per gram, so that energy release is the equivalent is 217 milligrams of TNT. Doesn't sound like that much, does it? In the USA, the legal limit for fireworks is 50 milligrams of pyrotechnic material. [Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16, Volume 2, Section 1500.85]. This is the traditional M-50, or perhaps the cherry bomb. Since pyrotechnics are weaker than TNT, imagine four to eight cherry bombs concentrated on one tiny spot... Of course, today's cherry bombs are not as good as yesterday's (pre-regulation) cherry bombs, but as a child, I fractured the brass casing (3 x 12) of a shell for 37mm anti-aircraft cannon with ONE cherry bomb. No better fun for an nine-year-old than a bagful of small high explosives and a bunch of old cannon shells, is there? How thick are the walls of your space station? Your space suit? Your visor? That hose you're breathing through? Or any of the thousands of things you need to stay alive? If that gram is coming in from beyond the Earth's gravity, you could close on it at almost 20 km/sec, the equivalent is about 85 grams of TNT. Disastrous. If the orbit of a piece of rubble is not oriented with your orbit, but at an angle to it, you and the object are crossing at some vector product of your velocities. This is the most serious and likely hazard. If you were in an equatorial orbit and the rubble was in a polar orbit and you had a geometrically perfect collision, the impact velocity would be 1.414 times the orbital velocity, with each gram carrying the equivalent of 27.3 grams of TNT in kinetic energy. Known in the trade as the Chop Suey Special. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Rob McCafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris --- Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but a centimeter sized particle traveling at those speeds?? Help. Jerry Flaherty What Darren said is how I understand it too. As for 1cm particles, nah This shield is designed to protect against micrometeorids travelling at a relative speed of 20km/s. It'll not protect you from big stuff though I suppose the relative speeds of orbital debris is likely travelling much slower. Even so, wouldn't fancy their chances against a pea sized bit of weather sat even if it ONLY had a collision speed of 1000m/s Rob McC __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
Does anyone know more about the 'anti-meteorite system' that protects the ISS from being struck? 'Shields Up Scotty!' I believe it's as simple as a couple of layers of baking foil mounted over the main body of the station. The foil and impactor are vaporised by the impact and the vapour cannot penetrate do damage to the habitation modules. I believe the whole skin of the lunar module was a similar design. As were the shields for the spacecraft passing through the comas of comets. Several thin layers works much better than one big one. It's also lighter, ergo cheaper RMcC Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 07:22:36 -0800 (PST), you wrote: Does anyone know more about the 'anti-meteorite system' that protects the ISS from being struck? 'Shields Up Scotty!' I believe it's as simple as a couple of layers of baking foil mounted over the main body of the station. The foil and impactor are vaporised by the impact and the vapour cannot penetrate do damage to the habitation modules. I believe the whole skin of the The term is Whipple shield or Whipple barrier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipple_shield __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
I'm shocked that such a meager device can successfully protect against high velocity impacts from debris? Why does it vaporize and not continue through? The gel in the Stardust collector showed particles penetrating several millimeters into the material. I see that the gel and the foil are different materials, the former meant to collect but a centimeter sized particle traveling at those speeds?? Help. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rob McCafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 07:22:36 -0800 (PST), you wrote: Does anyone know more about the 'anti-meteorite system' that protects the ISS from being struck? 'Shields Up Scotty!' I believe it's as simple as a couple of layers of baking foil mounted over the main body of the station. The foil and impactor are vaporised by the impact and the vapour cannot penetrate do damage to the habitation modules. I believe the whole skin of the The term is Whipple shield or Whipple barrier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipple_shield __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 14:38:42 -0500, you wrote: I'm shocked that such a meager device can successfully protect against high velocity impacts from debris? Why does it vaporize and not continue through? Particle hits first layer-- explodes into a bajillion pieces (as would you if you hit something while going at thousands of miles per hout). Much of the energy from first hit is converted from kinetic to various other things-- heat, for instance. What kinetic energy continues moving forward is spread out over many particles. Those many particles may or may not still have enough energy to punch through another layer. If not, the process stops there. If they do, they'll lose and spred out energy again in the same way, and be even less likely to pass through another layer. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
Thanks Darren. Sounds easy but... Never mind, practicle application works sooo theory is well supported. Wicked keen. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 14:38:42 -0500, you wrote: I'm shocked that such a meager device can successfully protect against high velocity impacts from debris? Why does it vaporize and not continue through? Particle hits first layer-- explodes into a bajillion pieces (as would you if you hit something while going at thousands of miles per hout). Much of the energy from first hit is converted from kinetic to various other things-- heat, for instance. What kinetic energy continues moving forward is spread out over many particles. Those many particles may or may not still have enough energy to punch through another layer. If not, the process stops there. If they do, they'll lose and spred out energy again in the same way, and be even less likely to pass through another layer. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
see http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5610363-description.html From:"Gerald Flaherty" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:[EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rob McCafferty" [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSubject:Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debrisDate:Sat, 03 Feb 2007 14:38:42 -0500I'm "shocked" that such a "meager" device can successfully protect againsthigh velocity impacts from debris? Why does it vaporize and not continuethrough?The gel in the Stardust collector showed particles penetrating severalmillimeters into the material.I see that the gel and the foil are different materials, the former meant tocollect but a centimeter sized particle traveling at those speeds??Help.Jerry Flaherty- Original Message -From: "Darren Garrison" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "Rob McCafferty" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 12:36 PMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 07:22:36 -0800 (PST), you wrote: Does anyone know more about the 'anti-meteorite system' that protects the ISS from being struck?'Shields Up Scotty!' I believe it's as simple as a couple of layers of baking foil mounted over the main body of the station. The foil and impactor are vaporised by the impact and the vapour cannot penetrate do damage to the habitation modules. I believe the whole skin of the The term is "Whipple shield" or "Whipple barrier" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipple_shield __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list__Meteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
--- Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but a centimeter sized particle traveling at those speeds?? Help. Jerry Flaherty What Darren said is how I understand it too. As for 1cm particles, nah This shield is designed to protect against micrometeorids travelling at a relative speed of 20km/s. It'll not protect you from big stuff though I suppose the relative speeds of orbital debris is likely travelling much slower. Even so, wouldn't fancy their chances against a pea sized bit of weather sat even if it ONLY had a collision speed of 1000m/s Rob McC It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris
Hi, Rob, Darren, List, One gram traveling at 1000 m/sec, when stopped abruptly, releases its kinetic energy, which is 1000 joules [kg x (m/s)^2]. The combustion energy of TNT is 4600 joules per gram, so that energy release is the equivalent is 217 milligrams of TNT. Doesn't sound like that much, does it? In the USA, the legal limit for fireworks is 50 milligrams of pyrotechnic material. [Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16, Volume 2, Section 1500.85]. This is the traditional M-50, or perhaps the cherry bomb. Since pyrotechnics are weaker than TNT, imagine four to eight cherry bombs concentrated on one tiny spot... Of course, today's cherry bombs are not as good as yesterday's (pre-regulation) cherry bombs, but as a child, I fractured the brass casing (3 x 12) of a shell for 37mm anti-aircraft cannon with ONE cherry bomb. No better fun for an nine-year-old than a bagful of small high explosives and a bunch of old cannon shells, is there? How thick are the walls of your space station? Your space suit? Your visor? That hose you're breathing through? Or any of the thousands of things you need to stay alive? If that gram is coming in from beyond the Earth's gravity, you could close on it at almost 20 km/sec, the equivalent is about 85 grams of TNT. Disastrous. If the orbit of a piece of rubble is not oriented with your orbit, but at an angle to it, you and the object are crossing at some vector product of your velocities. This is the most serious and likely hazard. If you were in an equatorial orbit and the rubble was in a polar orbit and you had a geometrically perfect collision, the impact velocity would be 1.414 times the orbital velocity, with each gram carrying the equivalent of 27.3 grams of TNT in kinetic energy. Known in the trade as the Chop Suey Special. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Rob McCafferty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space station moves to avoid debris --- Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but a centimeter sized particle traveling at those speeds?? Help. Jerry Flaherty What Darren said is how I understand it too. As for 1cm particles, nah This shield is designed to protect against micrometeorids travelling at a relative speed of 20km/s. It'll not protect you from big stuff though I suppose the relative speeds of orbital debris is likely travelling much slower. Even so, wouldn't fancy their chances against a pea sized bit of weather sat even if it ONLY had a collision speed of 1000m/s Rob McC __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
