Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
Jason, I think you said all that very well. I am rather new here, definitely a novice meteorite hunter, and I almost never post, but I read every day. I am VERY interested when someone asks or comments about fraudulent items on Ebay. I'd like to keep seeing those kinds of posts, and I am particularly interested in the responses of those members who are seasoned and knowledgable. That is, I am interested in their helpful and informative responses. Like I said, I'd like to continue to see these kinds of posts. Suzi Jason Utas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Ken, Bill, Mark, All, Ken's message just informed 600+ people that there was a fraudulent seller on ebay. Ben's post told 600+ people that *he* was fed up with reading other peoples' posts about fraudulent sellers. This is one of those cases where I would have to say that, without a doubt, Ken had every right to post his message, and you had no right to tell him off, Bill. Even if you don't care to read posts about suspicious/fraudulent sellers, posts such as Ken's obey all list rules, and perform a service to novices who may be lurking on the list (or scanning list archives on google), hoping to find information on what and what not to buy. If you don't like reading them, delete them, and if you get fed up with a single person's posts, by all means, block them or filter out there posts through selective email scanning (most email services have this sort of feature) - but don't post personal attacks to the list like you just did, because posts such as that are actually in direct violation of list policies. All talk must be meteorite-related and non-combative, at least with regard to pointed statements such as Are you bored to death? It's simply uncalled for. If you don't like posts such as this, and feel a need to respond, please do so privately (and, I hope, politely in the future). Bill, the person you mentioned in your message, Matteo, came onto the list while I was here and has come and gone a few times since then. He was blocked a few times for posting private messages to the list and using...inappropriate language. People may have gotten onto his case for posting ebay warnings, but I believe that they actually did so because of his warnings pertaining to the classic 'Nigerian scam' postings that everyone seems to get (They're so easy to recognize in general, that people get annoyed when warned of such things.) ...That, and he's an easy target - people on this list seem to get into a frenzy when someone who's not too eloquent or perhaps not a native English speaker comes on and posts...it's sad, but even true meteorite enthusiasts with good intentions get beaten up on here; it's just a fact that hasn't changed in, well, the nine years I've been on here. Sorry this goes out to the list, but I do think it has something to do with list policy in general - perhaps attacks could become a little less...prolific. Regards, Jason On 5/15/07, Bill wrote: Hi Mark, This list is for everyone. I don't comment all that often. When I do it's for a good reason. Ken knows what I'm getting at. All the points you made are accurate. I think the mix of personalities here makes for an interesting forum. I hope I didn't offend you but if I did, change things. Incapable of grandstanding, Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:37:48 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hey Bill, What is it with some of the people on this distribution? According to the met-list About, this is... ...with over 600 members, the best place to get information on rocks from space! I'm old on astronomy, and newish on meteorites. I joined thinking I'd get information on rocks from space. As for Ken's post (I don't know the man) - it's useful to get a feel for the kind of scams that are around. I'm not stupid, but I can be misled. What's the primary purpose of this group, nowadays, in reality? Is it for dealers? Mainly dealers, with collector/lurkers hoping to get an inside tip? Or just a place for the Old Boys to ignore or beat up the new guys? As a new member, I can honestly say that it's certainly not an open and welcoming community. Most hobbies try to encourage beginners - proponents want to share their knowledge, wonder and passion about their interests. This kind of BS can only serve to put people off the whole hobby. So I guess I'll be flamed for this - off-list is fine, but I suppose there's more grandstanding to be done by posting on-list. :-\ Mark Bill wrote: Hi Ken, Are you bored to death? I am. A lot of list members have been reamed out for posting these ebay warnings. Matteo comes to mind. Please stop. If we want your opinion we'll join the imca and view it on your invaluable website/s Bill Get Free 5GB Online Storage - Safely store your documents, photos and music online
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
Hey Bill, What is it with some of the people on this distribution? According to the met-list About, this is... /...with over 600 members, the best place to get information on rocks from space!/ I'm old on astronomy, and newish on meteorites. I joined thinking I'd get information on rocks from space. As for Ken's post (I don't know the man) - it's useful to get a feel for the kind of scams that are around. I'm not stupid, but I can be misled. What's the primary purpose of this group, nowadays, in reality? Is it for dealers? Mainly dealers, with collector/lurkers hoping to get an inside tip? Or just a place for the Old Boys to ignore or beat up the new guys? As a new member, I can honestly say that it's certainly not an open and welcoming community. Most hobbies try to encourage beginners - proponents want to share their knowledge, wonder and passion about their interests. This kind of BS can only serve to put people off the whole hobby. So I guess I'll be flamed for this - off-list is fine, but I suppose there's more grandstanding to be done by posting on-list. :-\ Mark Bill wrote: Hi Ken, Are you bored to death? I am. A lot of list members have been reamed out for posting these ebay warnings. Matteo comes to mind. Please stop. If we want your opinion we'll join the imca and view it on your invaluable website/s Bill __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
List: Im confused, I was actually thinking a few weeks back about fraudulent or (meteorwrongs) on ebay. I wish there was more information regarding this. Ive been to a few websites and they have been very helpful for meteorite identification. I think this forum is just right for exposing people selling this objects. In my opinion, the sellers most likely know what they have, or do not have. I may not spend thousands of dollars, but I know people that have a lot of money and know very little about meteorites, and how do you know that these people may not buy a very expensive meteorite as a gift for someone; I certainly dont know does anyone else? One of the main reasons I joined this list is to learn about meteorites and how to identify them, warnings about fraudulent sales helps me do that. I believe there are a lot of different people on this list for different reasons; I find that I delete a lot of emails on topics Im not interested in. But thats fine; I just go through them and read the ones that interest me and delete the rest. Whats the big deal. Greg S. Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Trace, I appreciate the warnings. I think everyone should point out everything suspect every time they choose to do so. Equal time and respect is all it amounts to. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:37:52 -0700 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? As a novice I would like to say that I appreciate it when people point out fraudulent ebay listings. It gives me a chance to see more meteor wrongs so that I will be better informed when I make my purchases. I may not buy $6000 items but the pictures are worth more than that to me. Trace - Original Message - From: Bill To: Jason Utas Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? This is just another old beat up issue. Lurking novices don't buy 6,000 dollar unknowns. They buy worthless micros from guess who. Many have been chastised for bothering the list with obvious ebay scammers. No attack was made. An opinion was expressed in a fact of the matter way. Met-list is not a podium for a selected few. The so called innocent lurkers that need to be saved should hear all points of view and the best thing that we could ever have here would be a greater participation by everyone. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:11:02 -0700 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hello Ken, Bill, Mark, All, Ken's message just informed 600+ people that there was a fraudulent seller on ebay. Ben's post told 600+ people that *he* was fed up with reading other peoples' posts about fraudulent sellers. This is one of those cases where I would have to say that, without a doubt, Ken had every right to post his message, and you had no right to tell him off, Bill. Even if you don't care to read posts about suspicious/fraudulent sellers, posts such as Ken's obey all list rules, and perform a service to novices who may be lurking on the list (or scanning list archives on google), hoping to find information on what and what not to buy. If you don't like reading them, delete them, and if you get fed up with a single person's posts, by all means, block them or filter out there posts through selective email scanning (most email services have this sort of feature) - but don't post personal attacks to the list like you just did, because posts such as that are actually in direct violation of list policies. All talk must be meteorite-related and non-combative, at least with regard to pointed statements such as Are you bored to death? It's simply uncalled for. If you don't like posts such as this, and feel a need to respond, please do so privately (and, I hope, politely in the future). Bill, the person you mentioned in your message, Matteo, came onto the list while I was here and has come and gone a few times since then. He was blocked a few times for posting private messages to the list and using...inappropriate language. People may have gotten onto his case for posting ebay warnings, but I believe that they actually did so because of his warnings pertaining to the classic 'Nigerian scam' postings that everyone seems to get (They're so easy to recognize in general, that people get annoyed when warned of such things.) ...That, and he's an easy target - people on this list seem to get into a frenzy when someone who's not too eloquent or perhaps not a native English speaker comes on and posts...it's sad, but even true meteorite enthusiasts with good intentions get beaten up on here; it's just a fact that hasn't changed in, well, the nine years I've been on here. Sorry this goes out to the list, but I do
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
Hi Ken, Are you bored to death? I am. A lot of list members have been reamed out for posting these ebay warnings. Matteo comes to mind. Please stop. If we want your opinion we'll join the imca and view it on your invaluable website/s Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 15:18:39 -0400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=120118981581 Hi All, The auction above and the two below feature obvious wrongs. I was wondering if the seller's descriptions were also fabrications. Anyone heard of Saladas Astronomical Institute (Argentina), Professor Oscar Roberto Ameri or the Berlin Astronomical Center (where these items were claimed to be analyzed)? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=120118976148 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=120118967971 Thanks, Ken Newton #9632 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks orcas on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
Hi Mark, This list is for everyone. I don't comment all that often. When I do it's for a good reason. Ken knows what I'm getting at. All the points you made are accurate. I think the mix of personalities heremakes for an interesting forum. I hope I didn't offend you but if I did, change things. Incapable of grandstanding, Bill -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:37:48 +0100To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hey Bill,What is it with some of the people on this distribution? According to the met-list About, this is..."...with over 600 members, the best place to get information on rocks from space!"I'm old on astronomy, and newish on meteorites. I joined thinking I'd "get information on rocks from space". As for Ken's post (I don't know the man) - it's useful to get a feel for the kind of scams that are around. I'm not stupid, but I can be misled.What's the primary purpose of this group, nowadays, in reality? Is it for dealers? Mainly dealers, with collector/lurkers hoping to get an inside tip? Or just a place for the Old Boys to ignore or beat up the new guys? As a new member, I can honestly say that it's certainly not an open and welcoming community. Most hobbies try to encourage beginners - proponents want to share their knowledge, wonder and passion about their interests. This kind of BS can only serve to put people off the whole hobby.So I guess I'll be flamed for this - off-list is fine, but I suppose there's more grandstanding to be done by posting on-list. :-\ MarkBill wrote: Hi Ken, Are you bored to death? I am. A lot of list members have been reamed out for posting these ebay warnings. Matteo comes to mind. Please stop. If we want your opinion we'll join the imca and view it on your invaluable website/s Bill Get Free 5GB Online Storage - Safely store your documents, photos and music online! Visit http://www.inbox.com/storage to find out more! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
Hello Ken, Bill, Mark, All, Ken's message just informed 600+ people that there was a fraudulent seller on ebay. Ben's post told 600+ people that *he* was fed up with reading other peoples' posts about fraudulent sellers. This is one of those cases where I would have to say that, without a doubt, Ken had every right to post his message, and you had no right to tell him off, Bill. Even if you don't care to read posts about suspicious/fraudulent sellers, posts such as Ken's obey all list rules, and perform a service to novices who may be lurking on the list (or scanning list archives on google), hoping to find information on what and what not to buy. If you don't like reading them, delete them, and if you get fed up with a single person's posts, by all means, block them or filter out there posts through selective email scanning (most email services have this sort of feature) - but don't post personal attacks to the list like you just did, because posts such as that are actually in direct violation of list policies. All talk must be meteorite-related and non-combative, at least with regard to pointed statements such as Are you bored to death? It's simply uncalled for. If you don't like posts such as this, and feel a need to respond, please do so privately (and, I hope, politely in the future). Bill, the person you mentioned in your message, Matteo, came onto the list while I was here and has come and gone a few times since then. He was blocked a few times for posting private messages to the list and using...inappropriate language. People may have gotten onto his case for posting ebay warnings, but I believe that they actually did so because of his warnings pertaining to the classic 'Nigerian scam' postings that everyone seems to get (They're so easy to recognize in general, that people get annoyed when warned of such things.) ...That, and he's an easy target - people on this list seem to get into a frenzy when someone who's not too eloquent or perhaps not a native English speaker comes on and posts...it's sad, but even true meteorite enthusiasts with good intentions get beaten up on here; it's just a fact that hasn't changed in, well, the nine years I've been on here. Sorry this goes out to the list, but I do think it has something to do with list policy in general - perhaps attacks could become a little less...prolific. Regards, Jason On 5/15/07, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark, This list is for everyone. I don't comment all that often. When I do it's for a good reason. Ken knows what I'm getting at. All the points you made are accurate. I think the mix of personalities here makes for an interesting forum. I hope I didn't offend you but if I did, change things. Incapable of grandstanding, Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:37:48 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hey Bill, What is it with some of the people on this distribution? According to the met-list About, this is... ...with over 600 members, the best place to get information on rocks from space! I'm old on astronomy, and newish on meteorites. I joined thinking I'd get information on rocks from space. As for Ken's post (I don't know the man) - it's useful to get a feel for the kind of scams that are around. I'm not stupid, but I can be misled. What's the primary purpose of this group, nowadays, in reality? Is it for dealers? Mainly dealers, with collector/lurkers hoping to get an inside tip? Or just a place for the Old Boys to ignore or beat up the new guys? As a new member, I can honestly say that it's certainly not an open and welcoming community. Most hobbies try to encourage beginners - proponents want to share their knowledge, wonder and passion about their interests. This kind of BS can only serve to put people off the whole hobby. So I guess I'll be flamed for this - off-list is fine, but I suppose there's more grandstanding to be done by posting on-list. :-\ Mark Bill wrote: Hi Ken, Are you bored to death? I am. A lot of list members have been reamed out for posting these ebay warnings. Matteo comes to mind. Please stop. If we want your opinion we'll join the imca and view it on your invaluable website/s Bill Get Free 5GB Online Storage - Safely store your documents, photos and music online! Visit http://www.inbox.com/storage to find out more! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
Come on folks, to much spare time? Mark: I can honestly say that it's certainly not an open and welcoming community. - Wrong. Most hobbies try to encourage beginners - proponents want to share their knowledge, wonder and passion about their interests. - true and with this list, you found exactly the right place. Check the archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/ Here on the list you'll find more infotmation about meteorites than in any other place on web and you are invitated to address to the list, whenever you have a meteoritical question. Ken: Maybe the seller isn't intentionally fraudulent? That Prof. Ameri seems to be a real person, although he seems to have some idiosyncratic theories, if one tries to interpret that sketch: http://www.radiochaco.com.ar/meteorito.htm A Berlin Astronomical Center does exist in Berlin Potsdam at the Urania-Planetarium: http://www.radiochaco.com.ar/meteorito.htm The Astronomische Zentrum Bruno H. Buergel, named after an astronomer and author of popular astronomy books. Certainly not the first address in Berlin for meteorites, that would be the Humboldt-University. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Mai 2007 01:11 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hello Ken, Bill, Mark, All, Ken's message just informed 600+ people that there was a fraudulent seller on ebay. Ben's post told 600+ people that *he* was fed up with reading other peoples' posts about fraudulent sellers. This is one of those cases where I would have to say that, without a doubt, Ken had every right to post his message, and you had no right to tell him off, Bill. Even if you don't care to read posts about suspicious/fraudulent sellers, posts such as Ken's obey all list rules, and perform a service to novices who may be lurking on the list (or scanning list archives on google), hoping to find information on what and what not to buy. If you don't like reading them, delete them, and if you get fed up with a single person's posts, by all means, block them or filter out there posts through selective email scanning (most email services have this sort of feature) - but don't post personal attacks to the list like you just did, because posts such as that are actually in direct violation of list policies. All talk must be meteorite-related and non-combative, at least with regard to pointed statements such as Are you bored to death? It's simply uncalled for. If you don't like posts such as this, and feel a need to respond, please do so privately (and, I hope, politely in the future). Bill, the person you mentioned in your message, Matteo, came onto the list while I was here and has come and gone a few times since then. He was blocked a few times for posting private messages to the list and using...inappropriate language. People may have gotten onto his case for posting ebay warnings, but I believe that they actually did so because of his warnings pertaining to the classic 'Nigerian scam' postings that everyone seems to get (They're so easy to recognize in general, that people get annoyed when warned of such things.) ...That, and he's an easy target - people on this list seem to get into a frenzy when someone who's not too eloquent or perhaps not a native English speaker comes on and posts...it's sad, but even true meteorite enthusiasts with good intentions get beaten up on here; it's just a fact that hasn't changed in, well, the nine years I've been on here. Sorry this goes out to the list, but I do think it has something to do with list policy in general - perhaps attacks could become a little less...prolific. Regards, Jason On 5/15/07, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark, This list is for everyone. I don't comment all that often. When I do it's for a good reason. Ken knows what I'm getting at. All the points you made are accurate. I think the mix of personalities here makes for an interesting forum. I hope I didn't offend you but if I did, change things. Incapable of grandstanding, Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:37:48 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hey Bill, What is it with some of the people on this distribution? According to the met-list About, this is... ...with over 600 members, the best place to get information on rocks from space! I'm old on astronomy, and newish on meteorites. I joined thinking I'd get information on rocks from space. As for Ken's post (I don't know the man) - it's useful to get a feel for the kind of scams that are around. I'm not stupid, but I can be misled. What's the primary purpose of this group, nowadays, in reality? Is it for dealers? Mainly dealers, with collector/lurkers hoping to get an inside tip? Or just a place for the Old Boys to ignore or beat up
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
This is just another old beat up issue. Lurking novices don't buy 6,000 dollar unknowns. They buy worthless micros from guess who. Many have been chastised for bothering the list with obvious ebay scammers. No attack was made. An opinion was expressed in a fact of the matter way. Met-list is not a podium for a selected few. The so called innocent lurkers that need to be saved should hear all points of view and the best thing that we could ever have here would be a greater participation by everyone. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:11:02 -0700 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hello Ken, Bill, Mark, All, Ken's message just informed 600+ people that there was a fraudulent seller on ebay. Ben's post told 600+ people that *he* was fed up with reading other peoples' posts about fraudulent sellers. This is one of those cases where I would have to say that, without a doubt, Ken had every right to post his message, and you had no right to tell him off, Bill. Even if you don't care to read posts about suspicious/fraudulent sellers, posts such as Ken's obey all list rules, and perform a service to novices who may be lurking on the list (or scanning list archives on google), hoping to find information on what and what not to buy. If you don't like reading them, delete them, and if you get fed up with a single person's posts, by all means, block them or filter out there posts through selective email scanning (most email services have this sort of feature) - but don't post personal attacks to the list like you just did, because posts such as that are actually in direct violation of list policies. All talk must be meteorite-related and non-combative, at least with regard to pointed statements such as Are you bored to death? It's simply uncalled for. If you don't like posts such as this, and feel a need to respond, please do so privately (and, I hope, politely in the future). Bill, the person you mentioned in your message, Matteo, came onto the list while I was here and has come and gone a few times since then. He was blocked a few times for posting private messages to the list and using...inappropriate language. People may have gotten onto his case for posting ebay warnings, but I believe that they actually did so because of his warnings pertaining to the classic 'Nigerian scam' postings that everyone seems to get (They're so easy to recognize in general, that people get annoyed when warned of such things.) ...That, and he's an easy target - people on this list seem to get into a frenzy when someone who's not too eloquent or perhaps not a native English speaker comes on and posts...it's sad, but even true meteorite enthusiasts with good intentions get beaten up on here; it's just a fact that hasn't changed in, well, the nine years I've been on here. Sorry this goes out to the list, but I do think it has something to do with list policy in general - perhaps attacks could become a little less...prolific. Regards, Jason On 5/15/07, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark, This list is for everyone. I don't comment all that often. When I do it's for a good reason. Ken knows what I'm getting at. All the points you made are accurate. I think the mix of personalities here makes for an interesting forum. I hope I didn't offend you but if I did, change things. Incapable of grandstanding, Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:37:48 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hey Bill, What is it with some of the people on this distribution? According to the met-list About, this is... ...with over 600 members, the best place to get information on rocks from space! I'm old on astronomy, and newish on meteorites. I joined thinking I'd get information on rocks from space. As for Ken's post (I don't know the man) - it's useful to get a feel for the kind of scams that are around. I'm not stupid, but I can be misled. What's the primary purpose of this group, nowadays, in reality? Is it for dealers? Mainly dealers, with collector/lurkers hoping to get an inside tip? Or just a place for the Old Boys to ignore or beat up the new guys? As a new member, I can honestly say that it's certainly not an open and welcoming community. Most hobbies try to encourage beginners - proponents want to share their knowledge, wonder and passion about their interests. This kind of BS can only serve to put people off the whole hobby. So I guess I'll be flamed for this - off-list is fine, but I suppose there's more grandstanding to be done by posting on-list. :-\ Mark Bill wrote: Hi Ken, Are you bored to death? I am. A lot of list members have been reamed out for posting these ebay warnings. Matteo comes to mind
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
As a novice I would like to say that I appreciate it when people point out fraudulent ebay listings. It gives me a chance to see more meteor wrongs so that I will be better informed when I make my purchases. I may not buy $6000 items but the pictures are worth more than that to me. Trace - Original Message - From: Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jason Utas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? This is just another old beat up issue. Lurking novices don't buy 6,000 dollar unknowns. They buy worthless micros from guess who. Many have been chastised for bothering the list with obvious ebay scammers. No attack was made. An opinion was expressed in a fact of the matter way. Met-list is not a podium for a selected few. The so called innocent lurkers that need to be saved should hear all points of view and the best thing that we could ever have here would be a greater participation by everyone. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:11:02 -0700 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hello Ken, Bill, Mark, All, Ken's message just informed 600+ people that there was a fraudulent seller on ebay. Ben's post told 600+ people that *he* was fed up with reading other peoples' posts about fraudulent sellers. This is one of those cases where I would have to say that, without a doubt, Ken had every right to post his message, and you had no right to tell him off, Bill. Even if you don't care to read posts about suspicious/fraudulent sellers, posts such as Ken's obey all list rules, and perform a service to novices who may be lurking on the list (or scanning list archives on google), hoping to find information on what and what not to buy. If you don't like reading them, delete them, and if you get fed up with a single person's posts, by all means, block them or filter out there posts through selective email scanning (most email services have this sort of feature) - but don't post personal attacks to the list like you just did, because posts such as that are actually in direct violation of list policies. All talk must be meteorite-related and non-combative, at least with regard to pointed statements such as Are you bored to death? It's simply uncalled for. If you don't like posts such as this, and feel a need to respond, please do so privately (and, I hope, politely in the future). Bill, the person you mentioned in your message, Matteo, came onto the list while I was here and has come and gone a few times since then. He was blocked a few times for posting private messages to the list and using...inappropriate language. People may have gotten onto his case for posting ebay warnings, but I believe that they actually did so because of his warnings pertaining to the classic 'Nigerian scam' postings that everyone seems to get (They're so easy to recognize in general, that people get annoyed when warned of such things.) ...That, and he's an easy target - people on this list seem to get into a frenzy when someone who's not too eloquent or perhaps not a native English speaker comes on and posts...it's sad, but even true meteorite enthusiasts with good intentions get beaten up on here; it's just a fact that hasn't changed in, well, the nine years I've been on here. Sorry this goes out to the list, but I do think it has something to do with list policy in general - perhaps attacks could become a little less...prolific. Regards, Jason On 5/15/07, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark, This list is for everyone. I don't comment all that often. When I do it's for a good reason. Ken knows what I'm getting at. All the points you made are accurate. I think the mix of personalities here makes for an interesting forum. I hope I didn't offend you but if I did, change things. Incapable of grandstanding, Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:37:48 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hey Bill, What is it with some of the people on this distribution? According to the met-list About, this is... ...with over 600 members, the best place to get information on rocks from space! I'm old on astronomy, and newish on meteorites. I joined thinking I'd get information on rocks from space. As for Ken's post (I don't know the man) - it's useful to get a feel for the kind of scams that are around. I'm not stupid, but I can be misled. What's the primary purpose of this group, nowadays, in reality? Is it for dealers? Mainly dealers, with collector/lurkers hoping to get an inside tip? Or just a place for the Old Boys to ignore or beat up the new guys? As a new member, I can honestly say that it's certainly not an open and welcoming community. Most hobbies try to encourage beginners - proponents want to share their knowledge
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
Hi Trace, I appreciate the warnings. I think everyone should point out everything suspect every time they choose to do so. Equal time and respect is all it amounts to. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:37:52 -0700 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? As a novice I would like to say that I appreciate it when people point out fraudulent ebay listings. It gives me a chance to see more meteor wrongs so that I will be better informed when I make my purchases. I may not buy $6000 items but the pictures are worth more than that to me. Trace - Original Message - From: Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jason Utas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? This is just another old beat up issue. Lurking novices don't buy 6,000 dollar unknowns. They buy worthless micros from guess who. Many have been chastised for bothering the list with obvious ebay scammers. No attack was made. An opinion was expressed in a fact of the matter way. Met-list is not a podium for a selected few. The so called innocent lurkers that need to be saved should hear all points of view and the best thing that we could ever have here would be a greater participation by everyone. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:11:02 -0700 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hello Ken, Bill, Mark, All, Ken's message just informed 600+ people that there was a fraudulent seller on ebay. Ben's post told 600+ people that *he* was fed up with reading other peoples' posts about fraudulent sellers. This is one of those cases where I would have to say that, without a doubt, Ken had every right to post his message, and you had no right to tell him off, Bill. Even if you don't care to read posts about suspicious/fraudulent sellers, posts such as Ken's obey all list rules, and perform a service to novices who may be lurking on the list (or scanning list archives on google), hoping to find information on what and what not to buy. If you don't like reading them, delete them, and if you get fed up with a single person's posts, by all means, block them or filter out there posts through selective email scanning (most email services have this sort of feature) - but don't post personal attacks to the list like you just did, because posts such as that are actually in direct violation of list policies. All talk must be meteorite-related and non-combative, at least with regard to pointed statements such as Are you bored to death? It's simply uncalled for. If you don't like posts such as this, and feel a need to respond, please do so privately (and, I hope, politely in the future). Bill, the person you mentioned in your message, Matteo, came onto the list while I was here and has come and gone a few times since then. He was blocked a few times for posting private messages to the list and using...inappropriate language. People may have gotten onto his case for posting ebay warnings, but I believe that they actually did so because of his warnings pertaining to the classic 'Nigerian scam' postings that everyone seems to get (They're so easy to recognize in general, that people get annoyed when warned of such things.) ...That, and he's an easy target - people on this list seem to get into a frenzy when someone who's not too eloquent or perhaps not a native English speaker comes on and posts...it's sad, but even true meteorite enthusiasts with good intentions get beaten up on here; it's just a fact that hasn't changed in, well, the nine years I've been on here. Sorry this goes out to the list, but I do think it has something to do with list policy in general - perhaps attacks could become a little less...prolific. Regards, Jason On 5/15/07, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark, This list is for everyone. I don't comment all that often. When I do it's for a good reason. Ken knows what I'm getting at. All the points you made are accurate. I think the mix of personalities here makes for an interesting forum. I hope I didn't offend you but if I did, change things. Incapable of grandstanding, Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:37:48 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hey Bill, What is it with some of the people on this distribution? According to the met-list About, this is... ...with over 600 members, the best place to get information on rocks from space! I'm old on astronomy, and newish on meteorites. I joined thinking I'd get information on rocks from space. As for Ken's post (I don't know the man) - it's useful
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
In a message dated 5/15/2007 5:40:16 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As a novice I would like to say that I appreciate it when people point out fraudulent ebay listings. It gives me a chance to see more meteor wrongs so that I will be better informed when I make my purchases. I may not buy $6000 items but the pictures are worth more than that to me. Trace --- Hello Trace, and all new-comers, Welcome to the Met-List. If you would like to look at more meteorwrongs, here are 2 websites you may want to bookmark. First, Ken's (of course!): _http://home.earthlink.net/~magellon/webwrongs.html_ (http://home.earthlink.net/~magellon/webwrongs.html) Second, Randy Korotev of the Washington University also maintains an excellent site: _http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/meteorwrongs.htm_ (http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/meteorwrongs.htm) And it you would like more information, I would recommend the Encyclopedia of Meteorites: _http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/login.asp_ (http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/login.asp) And last, but certainly not least, the IMCA site: _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) Enjoy. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
Trace, A good place to see meteorwrongs is at my meteorwrong gallery here is a link incase you have not seen it yet. I hope this helps you out a little. Good Luck and welcome to the hobby and list. http://illinoismeteorites.com/meteorwrongs.htm Happy Hunting, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com - Original Message From: Trace [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 7:37:52 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? As a novice I would like to say that I appreciate it when people point out fraudulent ebay listings. It gives me a chance to see more meteor wrongs so that I will be better informed when I make my purchases. I may not buy $6000 items but the pictures are worth more than that to me. Trace - Original Message - From: Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jason Utas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? This is just another old beat up issue. Lurking novices don't buy 6,000 dollar unknowns. They buy worthless micros from guess who. Many have been chastised for bothering the list with obvious ebay scammers. No attack was made. An opinion was expressed in a fact of the matter way. Met-list is not a podium for a selected few. The so called innocent lurkers that need to be saved should hear all points of view and the best thing that we could ever have here would be a greater participation by everyone. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 16:11:02 -0700 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hello Ken, Bill, Mark, All, Ken's message just informed 600+ people that there was a fraudulent seller on ebay. Ben's post told 600+ people that *he* was fed up with reading other peoples' posts about fraudulent sellers. This is one of those cases where I would have to say that, without a doubt, Ken had every right to post his message, and you had no right to tell him off, Bill. Even if you don't care to read posts about suspicious/fraudulent sellers, posts such as Ken's obey all list rules, and perform a service to novices who may be lurking on the list (or scanning list archives on google), hoping to find information on what and what not to buy. If you don't like reading them, delete them, and if you get fed up with a single person's posts, by all means, block them or filter out there posts through selective email scanning (most email services have this sort of feature) - but don't post personal attacks to the list like you just did, because posts such as that are actually in direct violation of list policies. All talk must be meteorite-related and non-combative, at least with regard to pointed statements such as Are you bored to death? It's simply uncalled for. If you don't like posts such as this, and feel a need to respond, please do so privately (and, I hope, politely in the future). Bill, the person you mentioned in your message, Matteo, came onto the list while I was here and has come and gone a few times since then. He was blocked a few times for posting private messages to the list and using...inappropriate language. People may have gotten onto his case for posting ebay warnings, but I believe that they actually did so because of his warnings pertaining to the classic 'Nigerian scam' postings that everyone seems to get (They're so easy to recognize in general, that people get annoyed when warned of such things.) ...That, and he's an easy target - people on this list seem to get into a frenzy when someone who's not too eloquent or perhaps not a native English speaker comes on and posts...it's sad, but even true meteorite enthusiasts with good intentions get beaten up on here; it's just a fact that hasn't changed in, well, the nine years I've been on here. Sorry this goes out to the list, but I do think it has something to do with list policy in general - perhaps attacks could become a little less...prolific. Regards, Jason On 5/15/07, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark, This list is for everyone. I don't comment all that often. When I do it's for a good reason. Ken knows what I'm getting at. All the points you made are accurate. I think the mix of personalities here makes for an interesting forum. I hope I didn't offend you but if I did, change things. Incapable of grandstanding, Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:37:48 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller? Hey Bill, What is it with some of the people on this distribution? According to the met-list About, this is... ...with over 600 members
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
If you would like to look at more meteorwrongs, here are 2 websites you may want to bookmark. First, Ken's (of course!): _http://home.earthlink.net/~magellon/webwrongs.html_ (http://home.earthlink.net/~magellon/webwrongs.html) Second, Randy Korotev of the Washington University also maintains an excellent site: _http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/meteorwrongs.htm_ (http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/meteorwrongs.htm) And it you would like more information, I would recommend the Encyclopedia of Meteorites: _http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/login.asp_ (http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/login.asp) And last, but certainly not least, the IMCA site: _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) Enjoy. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc Wonderful resources and there are many others. Don't stop there. Labels will never define this very serious hobby! The stamp of approval is a very old shtick.. Bill FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family! Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Suspect Seller?
Martin, Herman All, As Martin correctly indicates, according to Ameri's web page (http://tinyurl.com/ytzz8z) the auction's description is based upon the professor's honest but possibly flawed research. He concludes that irons, 'carbonaceous chondrites', and 'tektites' fell on the Campo area. The seller appears to refers to this by stating, Most items from this collection come from Campo del Cielo (South America) which is one of the few places in the WORLD that according to Earth rotation has an angle that allows gravity to attract what’s traveling at space. While this does not change my opinion of the items offered, it answers my question about the seller's motives. This is not an intentional scam but specimen misidentification. Thanks to Martin and All for your kind assistance and input, Ken Newton http://home.earthlink.net/~magellon/mepage.html Martin Altmann wrote: Ken: Maybe the seller isn't intentionally fraudulent? That Prof. Ameri seems to be a real person, although he seems to have some idiosyncratic theories, if one tries to interpret that sketch: http://www.radiochaco.com.ar/meteorito.htm A Berlin Astronomical Center does exist in Berlin Potsdam at the Urania-Planetarium: http://www.radiochaco.com.ar/meteorito.htm The Astronomische Zentrum Bruno H. Buergel, named after an astronomer and author of popular astronomy books. Certainly not the first address in Berlin for meteorites, that would be the Humboldt-University. Best! Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
