Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
I remeasured the PH and TDS levels of my incoming tap water and again after being filtered. Before filtering After Charcoal and RO Filtering TDS: 515 PPM 31 PPM PH: 7.7 7.1 It looks like 7 stage RO filtering made the water move towards PH neutral from being on the basic side. A reading of 7 would be considered perfect neutral so I am happy with a PH reading of 7.1. I would rather have it lean towards basic than acidic which is the case here. On the other hand, the TDS level of the incoming tap water exceeds EPA standards! I wouldn't dare drink the tap water here. Might end up with a case of kidney stones! I don't think meteorites would be happy with the tap water here. I will do chemical testing in a few weeks. I hope there is no chloramine in our system as is the case in California. Kind Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Great Info Adam! Sincerely Don Merchant - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I remeasured the PH and TDS levels of my incoming tap water and again after being filtered. Before filtering After Charcoal and RO Filtering TDS: 515 PPM 31 PPM PH: 7.7 7.1 It looks like 7 stage RO filtering made the water move towards PH neutral from being on the basic side. A reading of 7 would be considered perfect neutral so I am happy with a PH reading of 7.1. I would rather have it lean towards basic than acidic which is the case here. On the other hand, the TDS level of the incoming tap water exceeds EPA standards! I wouldn't dare drink the tap water here. Might end up with a case of kidney stones! I don't think meteorites would be happy with the tap water here. I will do chemical testing in a few weeks. I hope there is no chloramine in our system as is the case in California. Kind Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Adam and List...(curious me, and although I'm not cutting yet, will soon.) The question: given any local water's TDS and variable ambient pH in all of our waters vs. using distilled water...why not use a commercial standard buffer 7.0? -Richard M - Original Message - From: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Great Info Adam! Sincerely Don Merchant - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I remeasured the PH and TDS levels of my incoming tap water and again after being filtered. Before filtering After Charcoal and RO Filtering TDS: 515 PPM 31 PPM PH: 7.7 7.1 It looks like 7 stage RO filtering made the water move towards PH neutral from being on the basic side. A reading of 7 would be considered perfect neutral so I am happy with a PH reading of 7.1. I would rather have it lean towards basic than acidic which is the case here. On the other hand, the TDS level of the incoming tap water exceeds EPA standards! I wouldn't dare drink the tap water here. Might end up with a case of kidney stones! I don't think meteorites would be happy with the tap water here. I will do chemical testing in a few weeks. I hope there is no chloramine in our system as is the case in California. Kind Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
I am more concerned with the chemicals added to and the metals contained within our drinking water than the pH level so long as it is somewhere near a pH level of 7.0. If I wouldn't dream of drinking the tap water, I certainly wouldn't want to jump-start chemical reactions within meteorites by using it as a coolant. By the way, the TDS and pH levels change throughout the day here. The incoming tap water TDS levels are much higher in the morning than the afternoon. I use Potassium Hydrogen Phthalate which has pH level of 4.00 and Mixed Phosphate with a pH level of 6.86 to occasionally calibrate my meters. I do not like the idea of adding anything to the cutting coolant and have produced some very stable pieces using self-filtered and sometimes distilled water. I have seen meteorites ooze some pretty nasty greenish brown juice like Gubura and Brenham within a few months after being cut with tap water. Who knows what started the reaction, perhaps chlorine? Kindest Regards, Adam Adam - Original Message - From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com; Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam and List...(curious me, and although I'm not cutting yet, will soon.) The question: given any local water's TDS and variable ambient pH in all of our waters vs. using distilled water...why not use a commercial standard buffer 7.0? -Richard M - Original Message - From: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Great Info Adam! Sincerely Don Merchant - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I remeasured the PH and TDS levels of my incoming tap water and again after being filtered. Before filtering After Charcoal and RO Filtering TDS: 515 PPM 31 PPM PH: 7.7 7.1 It looks like 7 stage RO filtering made the water move towards PH neutral from being on the basic side. A reading of 7 would be considered perfect neutral so I am happy with a PH reading of 7.1. I would rather have it lean towards basic than acidic which is the case here. On the other hand, the TDS level of the incoming tap water exceeds EPA standards! I wouldn't dare drink the tap water here. Might end up with a case of kidney stones! I don't think meteorites would be happy with the tap water here. I will do chemical testing in a few weeks. I hope there is no chloramine in our system as is the case in California. Kind Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Floride which is added to tap water in some areas is more reactive than chlorine. Adam has been cutting meteorites for years. Hard to find any fault with experience like his. Cheers Steve --- On Wed, 11/28/12, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2012, 2:32 AM I am more concerned with the chemicals added to and the metals contained within our drinking water than the pH level so long as it is somewhere near a pH level of 7.0. If I wouldn't dream of drinking the tap water, I certainly wouldn't want to jump-start chemical reactions within meteorites by using it as a coolant. By the way, the TDS and pH levels change throughout the day here. The incoming tap water TDS levels are much higher in the morning than the afternoon. I use Potassium Hydrogen Phthalate which has pH level of 4.00 and Mixed Phosphate with a pH level of 6.86 to occasionally calibrate my meters. I do not like the idea of adding anything to the cutting coolant and have produced some very stable pieces using self-filtered and sometimes distilled water. I have seen meteorites ooze some pretty nasty greenish brown juice like Gubura and Brenham within a few months after being cut with tap water. Who knows what started the reaction, perhaps chlorine? Kindest Regards, Adam Adam - Original Message - From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com; Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam and List...(curious me, and although I'm not cutting yet, will soon.) The question: given any local water's TDS and variable ambient pH in all of our waters vs. using distilled water...why not use a commercial standard buffer 7.0? -Richard M - Original Message - From: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Great Info Adam! Sincerely Don Merchant - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I remeasured the PH and TDS levels of my incoming tap water and again after being filtered. Before filtering After Charcoal and RO Filtering TDS: 515 PPM 31 PPM PH: 7.7 7.1 It looks like 7 stage RO filtering made the water move towards PH neutral from being on the basic side. A reading of 7 would be considered perfect neutral so I am happy with a PH reading of 7.1. I would rather have it lean towards basic than acidic which is the case here. On the other hand, the TDS level of the incoming tap water exceeds EPA standards! I wouldn't dare drink the tap water here. Might end up with a case of kidney stones! I don't think meteorites would be happy with the tap water here. I will do chemical testing in a few weeks. I hope there is no chloramine in our system as is the case in California. Kind Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
boiling tap water and adding baking soda like a teaspoon a gallon after boiling, should remove all the nasty corosive stuff. a good non corosive cutting fluid with good ccooling can be made with corn oil, pine sol or spic n span, and water. flouride or chlorine are realy not good to have in any cutting solution if you want rust prevention. the boiling should remove both. Plus if you have to do a lot of cutting, the corn oil solution is not considered a hazardous waste and is less likely to kill you if you dont use an air mask. Cheers Steve Dunklee --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Robert Verish bolidecha...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Robert Verish bolidecha...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question To: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 9:02 AM Hello Mendy, Mike, Ed, and All, I've been told that chloramine doesn't out-gas like chlorine does. We in California have to cognizant of this additive to our drinking water. http://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/removing-chloramines http://www.chloramine.org/chloraminefacts.htm This Subject comes up every so often on this List, and the oft-repeated disclaimer is that readers new to the List should run a search in the List-Archives on this subject for a review of past comments and observations. Bob V. --- On Tue, 11/20/12, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question To: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 3:58 PM Seems to me that if you recirculate the water, all that out-gassing is for naught as the blade will re-aerate the water. Mendy From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Ed and list, I do not know of an exact way to calculate, but a few minutes at around 29 inches Hg of vacuum (sea level), especially on a hot plate and with a little aggitation, will remove about all of the dissolved gasses. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com wrote: Hi Michael, Is there a method to calculate how long to leave a specific volume of water at a specific vacuum (inches Hg) to ensure that it is degassed? Thanks, Ed - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Pete and list, Unfortunately the method you use does not effectively de-gas water, as exposure to the atmosphere will allow atmospheric gasses to continue to dissolve into solution; it is the atmospheric gasses that cause water to be corrosive. To de-gas water you can: - Boil it - Sonicate under vacuum - Use a vacuum degasser - Bubble He through it - Etc. But unless you store your degassed water in an air-tight container gasses will begin to dissolve back into solution almost immediately. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: I do! I fill all my old distilled four litre jugs with tap water and let them sit with the caps off for about seven days. A chemist buddy of mine said it takes about 24 hours for any chlorine and other gasses to dissipate, but with the narrow neck and relatively small cap opening, to be prudent, after a couple of days I give it each jug a shake and leave it again for a few more. Cheers, Pete From: mikest...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0800 To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Hello Mendy, Mike, Ed, and All, I've been told that chloramine doesn't out-gas like chlorine does. We in California have to cognizant of this additive to our drinking water. http://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/removing-chloramines http://www.chloramine.org/chloraminefacts.htm This Subject comes up every so often on this List, and the oft-repeated disclaimer is that readers new to the List should run a search in the List-Archives on this subject for a review of past comments and observations. Bob V. --- On Tue, 11/20/12, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question To: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 3:58 PM Seems to me that if you recirculate the water, all that out-gassing is for naught as the blade will re-aerate the water. Mendy From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Ed and list, I do not know of an exact way to calculate, but a few minutes at around 29 inches Hg of vacuum (sea level), especially on a hot plate and with a little aggitation, will remove about all of the dissolved gasses. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com wrote: Hi Michael, Is there a method to calculate how long to leave a specific volume of water at a specific vacuum (inches Hg) to ensure that it is degassed? Thanks, Ed - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Pete and list, Unfortunately the method you use does not effectively de-gas water, as exposure to the atmosphere will allow atmospheric gasses to continue to dissolve into solution; it is the atmospheric gasses that cause water to be corrosive. To de-gas water you can: - Boil it - Sonicate under vacuum - Use a vacuum degasser - Bubble He through it - Etc. But unless you store your degassed water in an air-tight container gasses will begin to dissolve back into solution almost immediately. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: I do! I fill all my old distilled four litre jugs with tap water and let them sit with the caps off for about seven days. A chemist buddy of mine said it takes about 24 hours for any chlorine and other gasses to dissipate, but with the narrow neck and relatively small cap opening, to be prudent, after a couple of days I give it each jug a shake and leave it again for a few more. Cheers, Pete From: mikest...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0800 To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Hi Carl, You raise some very interesting points that I had not considered. :) It has been my understanding, that tap water or non-distilled water may contain chlorine. It was also my understanding that chlorine is very destructive to certain components within meteorites and that the chlorine atoms would initiate a chain reaction leading to runaway rusting, oozing, flaking, and lawrencite disease. Drying a specimen will remove the water, but chlorine may be left behind, so the damage will continue even if the specimen is thoroughly dried out in an oven. I arrived at this understanding by speaking to several other collectors and dealers with more experience than I. When I first started out, I used to cut with the same bottled purified water than I drink. This purified water is basically city tap water that has been run through filters and reverse osmosis. When using this water, my specimens had rusting issues. After I switched to distilled water, the rust problems ceased. The only change in my routine was the type of water I use for a saw coolant. So, my experience tends to reinforce my belief that distilled water is preferable over tap water for cutting meteorites. But, I cannot explain the science behind it, if any. One thing I do now for sure - do not put distilled water in the microwave in an attempt to boil it for coffee. LOL. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 11/20/12, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the pharmaceutical industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than mineral water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from rusting. Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the pharmaceutical industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than mineral water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from rusting. Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the pharmaceutical industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than mineral water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from rusting. Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
I do! I fill all my old distilled four litre jugs with tap water and let them sit with the caps off for about seven days. A chemist buddy of mine said it takes about 24 hours for any chlorine and other gasses to dissipate, but with the narrow neck and relatively small cap opening, to be prudent, after a couple of days I give it each jug a shake and leave it again for a few more. Cheers, Pete From: mikest...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0800 To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the pharmaceutical industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than mineral water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from rusting. Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Pete and list, Unfortunately the method you use does not effectively de-gas water, as exposure to the atmosphere will allow atmospheric gasses to continue to dissolve into solution; it is the atmospheric gasses that cause water to be corrosive. To de-gas water you can: - Boil it - Sonicate under vacuum - Use a vacuum degasser - Bubble He through it - Etc. But unless you store your degassed water in an air-tight container gasses will begin to dissolve back into solution almost immediately. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: I do! I fill all my old distilled four litre jugs with tap water and let them sit with the caps off for about seven days. A chemist buddy of mine said it takes about 24 hours for any chlorine and other gasses to dissipate, but with the narrow neck and relatively small cap opening, to be prudent, after a couple of days I give it each jug a shake and leave it again for a few more. Cheers, Pete From: mikest...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0800 To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the pharmaceutical industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than mineral water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from rusting. Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Hi Michael, Is there a method to calculate how long to leave a specific volume of water at a specific vacuum (inches Hg) to ensure that it is degassed? Thanks, Ed - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Pete and list, Unfortunately the method you use does not effectively de-gas water, as exposure to the atmosphere will allow atmospheric gasses to continue to dissolve into solution; it is the atmospheric gasses that cause water to be corrosive. To de-gas water you can: - Boil it - Sonicate under vacuum - Use a vacuum degasser - Bubble He through it - Etc. But unless you store your degassed water in an air-tight container gasses will begin to dissolve back into solution almost immediately. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: I do! I fill all my old distilled four litre jugs with tap water and let them sit with the caps off for about seven days. A chemist buddy of mine said it takes about 24 hours for any chlorine and other gasses to dissipate, but with the narrow neck and relatively small cap opening, to be prudent, after a couple of days I give it each jug a shake and leave it again for a few more. Cheers, Pete From: mikest...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0800 To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the pharmaceutical industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than mineral water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from rusting. Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Ed and list, I do not know of an exact way to calculate, but a few minutes at around 29 inches Hg of vacuum (sea level), especially on a hot plate and with a little aggitation, will remove about all of the dissolved gasses. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com wrote: Hi Michael, Is there a method to calculate how long to leave a specific volume of water at a specific vacuum (inches Hg) to ensure that it is degassed? Thanks, Ed - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Pete and list, Unfortunately the method you use does not effectively de-gas water, as exposure to the atmosphere will allow atmospheric gasses to continue to dissolve into solution; it is the atmospheric gasses that cause water to be corrosive. To de-gas water you can: - Boil it - Sonicate under vacuum - Use a vacuum degasser - Bubble He through it - Etc. But unless you store your degassed water in an air-tight container gasses will begin to dissolve back into solution almost immediately. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: I do! I fill all my old distilled four litre jugs with tap water and let them sit with the caps off for about seven days. A chemist buddy of mine said it takes about 24 hours for any chlorine and other gasses to dissipate, but with the narrow neck and relatively small cap opening, to be prudent, after a couple of days I give it each jug a shake and leave it again for a few more. Cheers, Pete From: mikest...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0800 To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the pharmaceutical industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than mineral water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from rusting. Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Hi Folks, I wanted to clarify that my personal experience is mostly with stony types. While I do appreciate irons and pallasites, I avoid cutting them. I've had a couple of near-misses while cutting irons. On one particular occasion, I was attempting to cut a window into a small Whitecourt iron. I was holding the specimen with my hands while cutting, and it got stuck on the blade and hurled upwards. It nicked the blade guard on the way up, narrowly missed my head, and ricocheted off the garage ceiling. I found it about a week later, laying amongst the clutter. It happened so fast that I had no time to react. It was my fault and inexperience. Thankfully it didn't hit me in the face. But back to distilled water : 90% of what I cut is stony meteorites. Occasionally I will cut and polish some meso nuggets, but only if they are small. I use distilled water on everything, but I have little experience using it on irons. By the time I learned about distilled water, I had all but quit cutting irons. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 11/20/12, Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com wrote: Ed and list, I do not know of an exact way to calculate, but a few minutes at around 29 inches Hg of vacuum (sea level), especially on a hot plate and with a little aggitation, will remove about all of the dissolved gasses. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com wrote: Hi Michael, Is there a method to calculate how long to leave a specific volume of water at a specific vacuum (inches Hg) to ensure that it is degassed? Thanks, Ed - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Pete and list, Unfortunately the method you use does not effectively de-gas water, as exposure to the atmosphere will allow atmospheric gasses to continue to dissolve into solution; it is the atmospheric gasses that cause water to be corrosive. To de-gas water you can: - Boil it - Sonicate under vacuum - Use a vacuum degasser - Bubble He through it - Etc. But unless you store your degassed water in an air-tight container gasses will begin to dissolve back into solution almost immediately. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: I do! I fill all my old distilled four litre jugs with tap water and let them sit with the caps off for about seven days. A chemist buddy of mine said it takes about 24 hours for any chlorine and other gasses to dissipate, but with the narrow neck and relatively small cap opening, to be prudent, after a couple of days I give it each jug a shake and leave it again for a few more. Cheers, Pete From: mikest...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0800 To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
Seems to me that if you recirculate the water, all that out-gassing is for naught as the blade will re-aerate the water. Mendy From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Ed and list, I do not know of an exact way to calculate, but a few minutes at around 29 inches Hg of vacuum (sea level), especially on a hot plate and with a little aggitation, will remove about all of the dissolved gasses. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com wrote: Hi Michael, Is there a method to calculate how long to leave a specific volume of water at a specific vacuum (inches Hg) to ensure that it is degassed? Thanks, Ed - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Pete and list, Unfortunately the method you use does not effectively de-gas water, as exposure to the atmosphere will allow atmospheric gasses to continue to dissolve into solution; it is the atmospheric gasses that cause water to be corrosive. To de-gas water you can: - Boil it - Sonicate under vacuum - Use a vacuum degasser - Bubble He through it - Etc. But unless you store your degassed water in an air-tight container gasses will begin to dissolve back into solution almost immediately. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: I do! I fill all my old distilled four litre jugs with tap water and let them sit with the caps off for about seven days. A chemist buddy of mine said it takes about 24 hours for any chlorine and other gasses to dissipate, but with the narrow neck and relatively small cap opening, to be prudent, after a couple of days I give it each jug a shake and leave it again for a few more. Cheers, Pete From: mikest...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0800 To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the pharmaceutical industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than mineral water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from rusting. Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
I purify water in a closed system, reverse osmosis so I assume most of the gasses are discharged with the brine. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread on cutting irons in water. My question is, why distilled or purified water rather than tap water? I was under the impression that purified water, i.e. ultrapure water, is much more corrosive than mineralized water like spring water or tap water. In fact, ultrapure water is so corrosive it is often used in clean labs as a cleaning medium for surfaces. Also, the pharmaceutical industry no longer uses stainless steel tubing for ultrapure water because of corrosion -- they use Teflon or polyethylene instead I believe. Wouldn't pure water be worse on iron oxidation than mineral water? I can understand using pure water to cut down on trace element contamination for geochemical srtudies, especially on stones, but I don't see how this helps for keeping irons from rusting. Also, while we are at it, what is the best blade for cutting irons? Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question
MikeG if that piece had hit you in your head or face, would that re-qualify it as a Hammer Stone!? Sincerely Don Merchant - Original Message - From: MikeG meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Hi Folks, I wanted to clarify that my personal experience is mostly with stony types. While I do appreciate irons and pallasites, I avoid cutting them. I've had a couple of near-misses while cutting irons. On one particular occasion, I was attempting to cut a window into a small Whitecourt iron. I was holding the specimen with my hands while cutting, and it got stuck on the blade and hurled upwards. It nicked the blade guard on the way up, narrowly missed my head, and ricocheted off the garage ceiling. I found it about a week later, laying amongst the clutter. It happened so fast that I had no time to react. It was my fault and inexperience. Thankfully it didn't hit me in the face. But back to distilled water : 90% of what I cut is stony meteorites. Occasionally I will cut and polish some meso nuggets, but only if they are small. I use distilled water on everything, but I have little experience using it on irons. By the time I learned about distilled water, I had all but quit cutting irons. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 11/20/12, Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com wrote: Ed and list, I do not know of an exact way to calculate, but a few minutes at around 29 inches Hg of vacuum (sea level), especially on a hot plate and with a little aggitation, will remove about all of the dissolved gasses. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com wrote: Hi Michael, Is there a method to calculate how long to leave a specific volume of water at a specific vacuum (inches Hg) to ensure that it is degassed? Thanks, Ed - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Pete and list, Unfortunately the method you use does not effectively de-gas water, as exposure to the atmosphere will allow atmospheric gasses to continue to dissolve into solution; it is the atmospheric gasses that cause water to be corrosive. To de-gas water you can: - Boil it - Sonicate under vacuum - Use a vacuum degasser - Bubble He through it - Etc. But unless you store your degassed water in an air-tight container gasses will begin to dissolve back into solution almost immediately. Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: I do! I fill all my old distilled four litre jugs with tap water and let them sit with the caps off for about seven days. A chemist buddy of mine said it takes about 24 hours for any chlorine and other gasses to dissipate, but with the narrow neck and relatively small cap opening, to be prudent, after a couple of days I give it each jug a shake and leave it again for a few more. Cheers, Pete From: mikest...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:17:37 -0800 To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question Adam, Mike, Carl, and list: The main constituents in pure water that cause corrosion are dissolved gasses. Does anyone de-gas their cutting water? Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Who knows what chemicals lurk in tap water? By purifying it, you are removing the unknowns. I have seen, for lack of a better term, Lawrencite disease creep up, especially with tap water that contains chlorine which seems to accelerate the problem. I have had no issues cutting with purified water as long as the contact time has been minimized. I guess purifying it could make the water more acidic but I also monitor the PH level and have not seen much of a difference. Other alternative coolants such as mineral oil, pure ethyl alcohol or kerosine do not appeal to me anymore, mainly due to fumes, ignition or the smell left in the specimens. Adam From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water cutting question I have been following the thread
