[uf-discuss] New microformats 2 parser
I have just released a new version of microformat-node, a parser for node.js. There's an API http://microformat2-node.jit.su/ Try the API with: http://the-pastry-box-project.net/ http://microformats.org/ You can get the source code at https://github.com/glennjones/microformat-node As far as I can tell, it fully supports the specification as written out in the wiki. I have also created a large test suite, which can be used in the development of other parsers. Source code for test suite: https://github.com/microformats/tests Soon I will create a browser compatible version of the engine and update the microformat-shiv library which powers browser plug-ins etc. My blog post on the project http://glennjones.net/2013/01/brand-new-microformats-2-parser/ I hope this work will help microformats and the concept of the semantic web move forward another little step. Enjoy Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] microformats and seo - numbers
Hi All I am going to be doing a presentation on microformats at a SEO conference in a few weeks. Last time I did this talk the QA was full of question asking for figures on the effectiveness of rich snippets at increasing site traffic. Does anyone know of any quantitative research on this subject. I have had a quick look on the web and cannot find anything. Cheers Glenn Jones PS old version of the tal, if your interested - http://www.slideshare.net/glennjones/microformats-and-seo ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] hRecipe support ufxtract
Had a request to add hRecipe support to ufXtract, which is now in place Example using API http://ufxtract.com/api/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fallrecipes.com%2FRecipe%2Fslow-cooker-chicken-and-dumplings%2Fdetail.aspxformat=hrecipeoutput=jsoncallback= Test Suite http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hrecipe/ Source Code for library https://github.com/glennjones/ufxtract Also fixed a couple of bugs with JSON output at the same time. Cheers Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] UK Meetup in April
Hi All As suggested by Frances I have created an page for UK meet-up to get a consensus on preferences when and where. If you're interested please take a minute to add yourself to the attendee list and not your preferences. http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2011-04-uk Thanks Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Meetup to workshop/brainstorm input microformat ideas
Hi All If there is a enough interested I would like to setup a UK meet-up to workshop/brainstorm the input microformat ideas. The week of 10-17 April looks good as Tantek is in the UK and most people are back from SXSWi. Jeremy Keith said he would be interested. I could arrange a small event in London or Brighton. What about everyone else? It's been a while since we had a UK microformats meetup. Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] input microformats for auto-filling forms
Hi Charl When I started to look at this I was hoping that the new HTML input types would be more useful. Although the new inputs describe data types they do not describe the context of data use. The example I used in the wiki page really shows this div class=vevent input class=dtstart type=datetime / ... /div We may know that the input in the example above is a date by its datetime type, but we only know that it is a start date of an event by the use of the classname attribute dtstart. As such, the semantic value is limited. Do not get me wrong, the new inputs are an important step forward, but they cannot replace the schema properties of microformats. If you can think of any way we could use these input types without a schema reference i.e. dtstart, that would be great. Although not an input the only exception to the above I have found so far is the pubdate attribute on the new time element which could possibly be used to replace published property for a hEntry . It does seem to be an exception to the rule. Example of pubdate use from W3 spec - http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-time-element article h1Small tasks/h1 footerPublished time pubdate datetime=2009-08-30today/time./footer pI put a bike bell on his bike./p /article Thanks Glenn -Original Message- From: microformats-discuss-boun...@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-boun...@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Charl van Niekerk Sent: 15 February 2011 19:45 To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] input microformats for auto-filling forms Hi Glenn, Excellent work so far! I think this has great potential. I see you mentioned HTML5 in the document (now technically just called HTML I guess) but I was wondering why not make more use of the new input types in the other examples? I see most of them are still input=text. For easy reference (cause I had it open anyway): http://is.gd/qA1gFW Thanks, Charl ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] input microformats for auto-filling forms
Hi All I am interested in the use of microformats to mark-up forms. The discussion of building better auto-fill applications and browser extensions using microformats has been going on for a couple of years. Currently, I am starting a couple of projects with interfaces where users can link, drag or copy contacts. Input microformats would be an important addition to these projects. This concept would also be useful for any project using the W3C Contacts API. Hopefully, the draggables.com idea gives some insight into how this could mature. I have spent a couple of days putting together a brainstorm/proposal of how this could work. If you're interested in this idea, could you feedback your thoughts. The wiki is the best place to do this, just vote up or down any ideas and add comments wherever possible. Wish it could of been done in a workshop, but the wiki will do. http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-input-brainstorming If there is enough interest and feedback from the community, I will build the unit tests and a reference application based on the js parser Micorformats Shiv. The final aim been to create extensions for Firefox, Chrome and Safari Thanks Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Draggables code and demos live
Hi Everyone I have just put up the draggables code and demos. For those who have not heard draggables before, it's a javascript library that allows users to exchange data between unrelated web sites using drag and drop. It uses microformats behind the scenes. http://draggables.com/ Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] microformat shiv - cross-browser javascript parser
Hi All I have believe for while that browsers should come with APIs to parse semantic content such as microformats, unfortunately this has yet to happen. The microformat shiv provides a simple to use, light-weight, cross-browser microformat API. Site: http://microformatshiv.com/ Code: https://github.com/glennjones/microformat-shiv It's built off the Operater plug-in code base by Michael Kaply. I have had to pull it apart and rebuild it to get backwards compatible with IE6. I have also taken out some additional features to keep as small as possible. I am still at the stage of testing it and there are a small number of issues, which I will iron out over the next couple of weeks. I am building this as part of the draggables project, but I am sure people may find other uses for it. Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Draggables
Hi Everyone
I have been working on an idea for the last couple months which looks at
using drag and drop as a way to exchange data between web sites. It's
just a bit of UX research at the moment.
I have created a 7 min video of demos which explains the idea much
better than words.
http://draggables.com
It currently extracts microformat data from the source pages, but I
would like to take the idea one step forward. So currently on the form
page the JavaScript looks like this:
addDropZone({
'dropZone':'dropTarget',
'formats': ['hcard']
});
addMapping([
['name', 'profile.fn'],
['jobtitle','profile.title'],
['companyname','profile.org[0].organizationName'],
]);
The mapping is in paired sets; on the left hand side is the name of the
form element ie jobtitle on the right the hCard structure to find the
correct value ie profile.title.
Tantek suggested looking at marking up the form with hCard classes and
working out an algorithm to automate the mapping of incoming data.
This approach may also be useful for the new W3C Contacts API which will
allow front-end developers to query contact stores in web browsers.
Although the storage format is PoCo (Portable Contacts) I am planning
on building a JavaScript PoCo hCard and hCard PoCo exchange library.
Mozilla Labs is doing work in this area:
http://mozillalabs.com/blog/2010/03/contacts-in-the-browser/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-contacts-api-20100121/
Would really like to hear your thoughts on this idea
Glenn Jones
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[uf-discuss] Draggables
Hi Everyone
I have been working on an idea for the last couple months which looks at
using drag and drop as a way to exchange data between web sites. It's
just a bit of UX research at the moment.
I have created a 7 min video of demos which explains the idea much
better than words.
http://draggables.com
It currently extracts microformat data from the source pages, but I
would like to take the idea one step forward. So currently on the form
page the JavaScript looks like this:
addDropZone({
'dropZone':'dropTarget',
'formats': ['hcard']
});
addMapping([
['name', 'profile.fn'],
['jobtitle','profile.title'],
['companyname','profile.org[0].organizationName'],
]);
The mapping is in paired sets; on the left hand side is the name of the
form element ie jobtitle on the right the hCard structure to find the
correct value ie profile.title.
Tantek suggested looking at marking up the form with hCard classes and
working out an algorithm to automate the mapping of incoming data.
This approach may also be useful for the new W3C Contacts API which will
allow front-end developers to query contact stores in web browsers.
Although the storage format is PoCo (Portable Contacts) I am planning
on building a JavaScript PoCo hCard and hCard PoCo exchange library.
Mozilla Labs is doing work in this area:
http://mozillalabs.com/blog/2010/03/contacts-in-the-browser/
http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-contacts-api-20100121/
Would really like to hear your thoughts on this idea
Glenn Jones
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[uf-discuss] UfXtract - HTML and Zipped HTML file support
Hi All I have just added HTML and Zipped HTML file support to http://ufxtract.com. It can be used to help build file import/export for HTML files containing microformats. UfXtract has had this feature for a few months, I have made it public in light of Facebook's new date export which also uses Zipped HTML files but with no microformat/RDF markup. As this API needs you to POST binary data, you cannot use the usual cross domain JSON calls. I am working on allowing the new cross domain XHR/AJAX calls, but for the time being I would suggest using server-side proxies to get around any same origin policy issues. The HTML file in any zipped file should be named index.html. The extension of zipped files is not important, the API discovers the file type by examining its contents. Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] UfXtract - more than one format at once
Hi All
André Luís wrote
One minor gripe, though... can't we ask for transformation for more than one
format at once? Optimus does this. And it's kinda useful to avoid more than
one requests per URI... :)
OK I have added parsing more than one microformat to the UfXtract API. You have
always been able to do this with the .Net library I just did not build it into
API. The API format parameter can now takes either a single value or comma
delimited list as the example below.
http://ufxtract.com/api/default.aspx?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glennjones.net%2Fabout%2Fhtmlfragment=orginurl=http%3A%2F%2Fformat=hcard%2Cxfn%2Chreview%2Chcalendar%2Chatom%2Chresume%2Cgeo%2Cadr%2Ctag%2Cnofollow%2Clicense%2Cdirectory%2Chome%2Cenclosure%2Cvotelinksoutput=jsonreport=on
The .Net library code looks like this:
using UfXtract;
string url = http://www.glennjones.net/about/;;
UfWebRequest webRequest = new UfWebRequest();
ArrayList formatArray = new ArrayList();
formatArray.Add(UfFormats.HCard());
formatArray.Add(UfFormats.Xfn());
formatArray.Add(UfFormats.Adr());
formatArray.Add(UfFormats.License());
...etc
webRequest.Load(url, formatArray);
if (webRequest.Data.Nodes.Count 0)
{
UfDataToJson dataConvertor = new UfDataToJson();
Response.ContentType = application/json;
Response.Write(dataConvertor.Convert(webRequest.Data, formatArray));
}
It's about twice as slow running all the microformats formats at once than just
one at once. That said I am only talking about an extra 50ms.
Glenn
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[uf-discuss] UfXtract .Net microformats parser open-sourced
Hi All I have just open-sourced UfXtract .Net microformats parser. With a few lines of code you can load and parse microformats from Urls or HTML strings. You can then extract the data directly in .Net or convert it into JSON, JSON-P or XML. UfXtract currently supports the following microformats hCard, hCalendar, hReview, hResume, hAtom, XFN, rel-tag, geo, adr, rel-nofollow, rel-license, rel-directory, rel-home, rel-enclosure, rel-payment and votelinks. It also supports a handful of POSH patterns hCard-XFN, rel-me, rel-next/previous, test-suite and test-fixture. The support of rel-me and rel-next/previous was added to help people build social graph spiders. UfXtract can typically parse a page between 10-50ms. I have gone to some pains to build a test suite to make sure it conforms as closely as possible to the microformats specs. You can also easily create new microformats and POSH definitions using some simple .Net objects. API - http://ufxtract.com/ Documentation - http://ufxtract.com/documentation/ Source code - http://github.com/glennjones/ufxtract/ Test suite - http://www.ufxtract.com/testsuite/ Hopefully people will find it useful... Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Two more site support hResume import
We have launched two more sites that support hResume import After the successful launch of http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/profile/ in September we have started building similar (CV Search and Match) sites for other clients. The latest two launched yesterday. http://careercv.mad.co.uk/ http://www.cvmatch4jobs.com/ I thought that people on the list would like to hear about our attempts to support hResume in our commercial sites. From this point I will just add any similar implementations to the hResume wiki page. Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] hResume to Word/PDF conversion API
Hi All I have added a hResume conversion API to the lab.madgex.com site. It takes the URL of a page containing hResume and returns a Microsoft Word, Adobe PDF or HTML file. http://lab.madgex.com/hresume/ The API also supports external hCard, so when parsing Sarven Capadisli resume http://csarven.ca/cv it correctly selects his hCard at the bottom of the page outside the hResume element. There is also support for the Linked-in pattern of marking up experience and education with both hcalender and hcard. There are some easy to use code examples for dropping badges into your hResume pages. It's been quite hard to define the logic for displaying a hResume in Word or PDF. I would love to get any feedback where the output does not match your expectations. At the moment it allows you to re-order the section and chose type of terminology. I have built in such a way that I could add a number of different styles choices at a later date. Examples: Steve Ganz - Linked-in profile in Word http://lab.madgex.com/api/hresumeconversion1_0/?url=http://www.linkedin. com/in/steveganzformat=wordsection-order=name,summary,work,education,s kills,affiliation,publications,contact-detailsterminology=en-us Sarven Capadisli - Blog CV in PDF http://lab.madgex.com/api/hresumeconversion1_0/?url=http://csarven.ca/cv format=pdfsection-order=name,summary,work,education,skills,affiliation ,publications,contact-detailsterminology=en-gb Hopefully the Stack overflow implementation will be finished soon and I can try out on their page. Glenn If I get time I will create a bookmarklet and maybe even a simple Firefox extension ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Marking up properties which reused pre-existing microformat
One of the problems I am see a lot with hResume is now properties which reused pre-existing microformat are mark-up. A good example is education in hResume which is hCalendar, I believe it should be mark-up like so: p class=education vevent span class=summaryBighton Univ/span (span class=dtstart1985/span - span class=dtend1988/span) /p The education property is a hCalendar and as such the same class attribute should carry both education and vevent. I have built my parser to look for this type of pattern, but quite a few authors on the web are using mark-up like this div class=education p class=vevent span class=summaryBighton Univ/span (span class=dtstart1985/span - span class=dtend1988/span) /p /div Breaking apart the education and vevent into separate element class attributes. Correct if I am wrong but only the first pattern should be supported by parsers. Either I need to update my parser or the wiki needs some good pointers on how properties which reused pre-existing microformat are mark-up. Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] Stack Overflow implements hResume
Jamie It's so nearly there, but the compound structures are not marked-up correctly for hResume The education and experience are currently mark-up as div class=vcard vevent when they should be div class=vevent experience and div class=vevent education. The linkedin.com pattern of using hCard and hCalendar together is great, but the hCalendar's are not carrying all the information they could. They could use hCard div class=vcard vevent education, but its need the compound class name. I am going to go through it in detail and try and get back them. At moment I cannot get the hResume to parse at all with my ufXtract parser. The hcard and hCalendars work fine. Looking at Jeff Atwood twitter stream [http://twitter.com/codinghorror] sounds like he has been having fun, with this. Great to see another large site support hResume. Glenn -Original Message- From: microformats-discuss-boun...@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-boun...@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Jamie Thomson Sent: 08 December 2009 14:27 To: microformats-discuss@microformats.org Subject: [uf-discuss] Stack Overflow implements hResume Hi all, Just to let you know, http://Stackoverflow.com have implemented hResume for their http://careers.stackoverflow.com site. This was requested on 3rd November 2009 on this: http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/28375/should-careers-stackoverflow-com-support-hresume/31681#31681 forum post and the developer is now asking for feedback. Click on the link to the forum post for more info and to provide feedback. @JamieT ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] Ident Engine
Hi André Thanks for the nice comments about the identity work. Can you email me a quick summary of the errors off the list and I will have look. Like microformats one of the aims of identity consolidation should be to surface the data so that it is not hidden from the user. This is especially important when rel=me linking goes wrong, users want to explore the issue themselves. I had this conversation Brad Fitzpatrick the creator of the Google Social Graph API earlier this year. We both agreed we need to build some sort of visualisation tool to explore social graphs. I think I have achieved this for profiles with Ident Engines. You can see what profile information is store about you and where, but I have yet to look at visualisation of the rel=me linkages. More importantly found a way to allow users to explore issues with their own graph. The tool I use the most at the moment is: http://identengine.com/debug/debug-identites.htm It's only a linear list, but sometimes help me find rogue relationships Glenn -Original Message- From: microformats-discuss-boun...@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-boun...@microformats.org] On Behalf Of André Luís Sent: 07 October 2009 16:19 To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Ident Engine Glenn, thank you (once again) for your effort. This is *huge*. I believe it *does* lower the barrier of using identity discovery. Specially given the level of interest around js. And thank you for including a note on progressive enhancement on your ALA article. ;) Meanwhile, I've pimped the lib around the office and some of them are sending me feeback on some of the tests they ran. Would you be interested in checking some of the faulty results? One of them got a sgn:// template URLs from myspace in one of your demos. Cheers, -- André Luís On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Glenn Jones glenn.jo...@madgex.com wrote: Hi All I have built a little JavaScript library that combines Social Graph data and parsing of open data sources such as microformats. http://identengine.com/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/discovering-magic/ Earlier this year Chris Messina made the passing comment that the techniques I demoed involved too much hoop jumping to be of practical use. I built this library to see if I could lower the barrier of entry. A List Apart published an article I have written on the libraries architecture. The library makes extensive use of both the Google's Social Graph API and Yahoo's YQL. It all under a MIT license Try out the demo's Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Ident Engine
Hi All I have built a little JavaScript library that combines Social Graph data and parsing of open data sources such as microformats. http://identengine.com/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/discovering-magic/ Earlier this year Chris Messina made the passing comment that the techniques I demoed involved too much hoop jumping to be of practical use. I built this library to see if I could lower the barrier of entry. A List Apart published an article I have written on the libraries architecture. The library makes extensive use of both the Google's Social Graph API and Yahoo's YQL. It all under a MIT license Try out the demo's Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] hResume skills property issues
competency structure to replace the current 'skills' property in hResume. We add two separate properties skills and language that use a common structure competency * competency * Summary (text) * Rating (0.0 to 5.0) * Duration (ISO Duration) p class= competency skill span class=summaryApplication development/span - abbr class=rating title=3 Intimidate /span /p p class= competency skill span class=summaryApplication development/span - abbr class=duration title=P3Y3 Years /span /p p class= competency language span class=summaryFrench/span - abbr class=rating title=5 Fluent /span /p Implied competency optimization It would be worth considering a new implied optimization rule for competency similar to the one used on the org property in hCard. Where an author only wants to use a value without rating or duration the summary property can be omitted and the value placed directly in the parent element, i.e. both structures below would be valid. p class= competency language span class=summaryFrench/span - /p p class= competency languageFrench/p [1] Madgex, the company I work for, hold approximately 4 million resumes across a number of job boards we host for our clients. I can, under some circumstances, do analysis of this data as long as it falls within the use prescribed by EU/UK data protection laws. I cannot publish examples from this data. Therefore, I picked 10 random online resumes as a point of reference. These resume have all been written freeform, come from different industries and represent individuals from different nationalities. Janne Kotiaho- Professor http://users.jyu.fi/~jkotiaho/cv.html Donald Henslay- Aviation Consultant http://www.safeskyllc.com/don's_resume.htm Jeremy Nevill Software - Architect http://www.nevill.co.uk/ Tristan Nitot - Company President http://www.nitot.com/cv/ Lezli Renee (Thomas) Gill - Teacher http://www.valdosta.edu/~lrgill/Resume.html Lucie Moussu- Assistant Professor http://www.moussu.net/TP/curriculumvitae.html Susan Sparkes-Hoskin - Business Development http://www.telusplanet.net/public/shoskins/Sue_Hoskins_Resume_2008.rtf Jeff Colen - Tour Promotions http://www.jcolen.com/Resume.htm Michael Barnett - Sales Training http://www.michaelcbarnett.com/resume Okwaisie Timothy - Metallurgist http://www.min-eng.com/cvs/okwaisie.doc Thanks Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] Commercial application using hResume import
Sarven wrote: Neat. Quick feedback: I tried it on http://csarven.ca/cv and it seems to pick up only a few of the org vCards. The parser is picking up your mark-up. For example I can see that you have use hcard/org to mark-up educational institution names. http://ufxtract.com/api/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcsarven.ca%2Fcvformat=hresume output=xml It's just the mapping from raw microformat data to our CV structure has not made the best use of your mark-up. I will update our application. It'd be great if it picked up the personal and contact details of vcard with .uid on the page. The hResume spec looks for a hCard using which is marked up with the class contact. I could extend the parser to follow the Representative hCard rules, but I things its better if you mark-up a hCard for hResume. The contact hCard is required and technically a hResume is invalid without it. Skills didn't pick up. You need to add rel=tag to your skill links. This only half the problem because if you review the http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-tag page and read the Tag Spaces section you will find skills can be very difficult to define in real world use. This is because the skill is not the text of the link but the last segment of the URL structure. Not correct use a class=skill title=Ubuntu href=http://www.ubuntu.com/;Ubuntu/a Correct use - has rel-tag and a tag namespace in the URL structure a rel=tag class=skill title=Ubuntu href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu/;Ubuntu/a Education level didn't pick up. The education level is not part of the hResume structure. I could infer an education level by using the NPL function on the education elements of the hResume. So far I have resisted mixture explicit structured data from Microformats with the more implicit data parsed by the NPL functionality. I am worried what user expectation would be. -Sarven Thanks for the feedback very useful. Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Commercial application using hResume import
Hi All The company I am part of has just released the first implementation of a new product called CV Search and Match for the Guardian newspaper group. It is a next generation CV database for the job board industry. http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/profile/ The interesting bit for the list is that it can import hResume as a starting point for creating your online CV. The Import your CV from another website feature can parse hResume data from any public web page. We have also added NLP (Natural Language Processing) as a fall back if there is no hResume. The microformat import is done using my UfXtract parser. This is first of many sites we will be adding this type of functionality to over the next few months. At the moment I believe Linked-in are the biggest publishers of hResume although I know a lot of individuals also publish their CV's using the hResume format. Please give it a go and give me feedback. You can try it even if you do not want to be contacted by employers by switching the CV to hidden once you finishing playing or you can delete all your CV data at any time. Glenn Jones Madgex ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] Google Rich Snippets - testing tool
Hi First I would just I like to say great job on Rich Snippets it is a big step forward for the semantic web. A while back I started building a test-suite for testing microformats parsers. You may find it useful - http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/. When are viewing a test-fixture page like http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/hcard1.htm press alt-x to get the test runner. The link to UfXtract parser API (my own) is broken at the moment so it is incorrectly showing fail on everything. I had a quick look through the hCard tests to get a feel of where you're at. Hopefully the notes I made below are useful. hCard 1 [http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/hcard1.htm] The vcard.n is not correctly supporting the Implied n Optimization http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Implied_.22n.22_Optimization Returns vcard.role, but is not mark as a support property in documentation Returns vcard.uid, but is not mark as a support property in documentation Returns vcard.n, but is not mark as a support property in documentation hCard 2 The vcard.email property is displayed but returns no value Returns vcard.tel, but is not mark as a support property in documentation Returns vcard.email incorrectly and it is not mark as a support property in documentation Returns vcard.urls, but is not mark as a support property in documentation Returns vcard.category, but is not mark as a support property in documentation hCard 3 The vcard.adr[0].post-office-box property returns no value incorrectly The vcard.adr[0].extended-address property returns no value incorrectly hCard 4 hCard.n.honorific-prefix[0] property is displayed but returns no value hCard6 Fails all 6 test on vcard.email[0].value and vcard.email[0].type hCard13 The vcard.tel[0].type[0] property is not support even though the tel value is hCard 10 It hard to tell which of these failed because of the order in which the results are display does not match the page order. hCard 18 Fails all 4 test using table header includes hCard 20 Fails all 3 test using hyperlink include hCard 21 Fails all 6 test for opaque/embedded hCards I like the error massaging you add to the Rich Snippets Testing Tool, I have found a number of places where the tests need fn properties. If you have any question please feel free to contact me. If we continue this on the list, it may be better to move it over the dev list. Glenn Jones PS - Yes Tantek, I will add this to the wiki later and email the list back with a URL :-) ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] Google Rich Snippets - testing tool
Hi All I created a page on the wiki to capture issues in the standard wiki format. Kavi you and your team can close down or disregard the items as you see fit. The community have found helpful to capture issue in this format in the past as email threads can get lost or duplicated. http://microformats.org/wiki/google-rich-snippets-issues Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Shameless plug for SXSWi microformats related talk
Hi All I have submitted an SXSWi proposal for a microformats related talk. Like everyone else I am trying to get some votes on the public panel picker. http://panelpicker.sxsw.com/ideas/view/2628 The idea is to talk about using rel=me and hCard profiles to find and explore distributed identity. Outline - Distributed Identity: API's of the Semantic Web Without much conscious thought, most of us have built identities across the web. We fill in profiles, upload photos, videos, reviews and bookmarks. This session will explore the practical use of Social Graph API and YQL to build new types of user experience combining identity discovery and data portability. Your help voting this up would much appreciated Thanks Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Social Graph Explorer and Identify
Hi All I built two new demo's for the Microformats panel at SXSW. The aim was to try and show the power of rel=me. Social Graph Explorer This is a tool which can be used to explorer an individual's combined web identity across various social network/media sites. It takes a social network profile URL (i.e. twitter.com/glennjones) and tries to find out what it can about that individual. Once it has return a combined web profile you can also drill into some of the public content that person has published on the web. It makes extensive use of Google's Social Graph API , microformats, RSS and Atom. http://lab.madgex.com/socialgraph/socialgraphexplorer.aspx Identify - Firefox extension Identify is a Firefox extension that combines identities across various social network/media sites and provides you with a profile about an individual. http://lab.madgex.com/identify/ Currently Social Graph Explorer is a much more powerful and accurate. It uses a rule set which includes the hcard-xfn pattern and a extended version representative hCard idea. Identify uses YQL and needs a little more work in this area, so you may get false positives. I am going to keep working on Identify. Any feedback is most welcome. Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] hcalendar - irregular repeat of identical meeting.
Hi Ray In hcalendar, how can I show a list of irregular dates for meetings with identical summaries showing only one summary in the html? You should be able to do the following: div class=the-event-info div class=summaryTitle of event/div div class=descriptionA little bit of information about the event/div div class=locationlocation/div /div Dates: ul li class=vevent abbr class=dtstart title=01-03-2009Sunday 1st March/abbr object data=#the-event-info class=include type=text/html width=1 height=1 style=display:none/object /li li class=vevent abbr class=dtstart title=05-03-2009Thursday 5th March/abbr object data=#the-event-info class=include type=text/html width=1 height=1 style=display:none/object /li li class=vevent abbr class=dtstart title=06-03-2009T15:45Friday 6th March 3:45pm/abbr - abbr class=dtend title=06-03-2009T16:454:45pm/abbr object data=#the-event-info class=include type=text/html width=1 height=1 style=display:none/object /li /ul Use the objects to include a single summary, description and location into different calendar events. But some of the parsers validate before pulling in the includes, so they say its invalid as the vevent does not contain a summary class. Interesting problem so I am still thinking. There is a format in the ISO Date structure which deals with this, but I bet only Toby's parser can will understand the repeating dates !! Just out of interest if you add a blank summary to the vevent it will work in Operator. Although it should not as summary is singular value in the spec. i.e li class=vevent abbr class=dtstart title=01-03-2009Sunday 1st March/abbr object data=#the-event-info class=include type=text/html width=1 height=1 style=display:none/object span class=summary/span /li Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] FYI: serialization of hCard into JSON
Hi David I have done quite bit of work around serialising microformats into both JSON and XML. The current version of my UfXtract parser is designed to consider the description of microformats as a loadable profiles. When I want to add a new microformat I build a new profile object. As such I have also been able to build generic JSON/XML serializers and de-serializers for the parser. They allow me to export and import microformats in JSON/XML without any data loss or added ambiguity. A while back I was really interested in moving this work forward within the community to get an agreed standard. There did not seem much interest at the time, so I documented some of my earlier work on wiki [1]. I think that Toby has since done some work with JSON support in Swignition. I have also looked at the Portable Contacts groups work and done some experimental conversions demos [2]. Although I think this project is a good idea, they have taken an approach with the scheme that allows for conversion between the 2 standards but there is some data loss, so it's not truly compatible. jCard[3] is also a good effort, my only problem was I wanted a serialization structure which can be applied to any microformat. It's also interesting to look at the work Yahoo has done with YQL [4], which can parse some microformats and return JSON/XML. Maybe not the best format, but very interesting toolset. Although the microformat design process did not originally have the concept of an output format, there are times when this would be useful. As parsers mature, we need an easy way to support the interchange and integration of data. Not just for parsers, but also for the applications that use them. A standard output format should encourage a greater culture of reuse and sharing between developers and help collaborative projects such as the building of shared test suites and other tools. If you check out the Microformats OAuth demo on my labs site you can see the serializer and de-serializer in action on the test bed page [5]. You have to create an account on the test site first. [6] [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/json [2] http://lab.madgex.com/portablecontacts/ [3] http://microformats.org/wiki/jCard [4] http://developer.yahoo.com/yql/ [5] http://lab.madgex.com/microformats/apidemo/testbed.aspx [6] http://ufapi.lab.madgex.com/ Glenn Jones On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:55 AM, David Janes davidja...@blogmatrix.com wrote: I've been playing about with representing microformats ... hCard in particular ... efficiently and usefully into JSON-type data structures. Here's a blog post on the topic [1]. Regards, etc... [1] http://code.davidjanes.com/blog/2009/03/02/auapi-encoding-hcards-in-js on/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] FYI: serialization of hCard into JSON
Hi David I have done quite bit of work around serialising microformats into both JSON and XML. The current version of my UfXtract parser is designed to consider the description of microformats as a loadable profiles. When I want to add a new microformat I build a new profile object. As such I have also been able to build generic JSON/XML serializers and de-serializers for the parser. They allow me to export and import microformats in JSON/XML without any data loss or added ambiguity. A while back I was really interested in moving this work forward within the community to get an agreed standard. There did not seem much interest at the time, so I documented some of my earlier work on wiki [1]. I think that Toby has since done some work with JSON support in Swignition. I have also looked at the Portable Contacts groups work and done some experimental conversions demos [2]. Although I think this project is a good idea, they have taken an approach with the scheme that allows for conversion between the 2 standards but there is some data loss, so it's not truly compatible. jCard[3] is also a good effort, my only problem was I wanted a serialization structure which can be applied to any microformat. It's also interesting to look at the work Yahoo has done with YQL [4], which can parse some microformats and return JSON/XML. Maybe not the best format, but very interesting toolset. Although the microformat design process did not originally have the concept of an output format, there are times when this would be useful. As parsers mature, we need an easy way to support the interchange and integration of data. Not just for parsers, but also for the applications that use them. A standard output format should encourage a greater culture of reuse and sharing between developers and help collaborative projects such as the building of shared test suites and other tools. If you check out the Microformats OAuth demo on my labs site you can see the serializer and de-serializer in action on the test bed page [5]. You have to create an account on the test site first. [6] [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/json [2] http://lab.madgex.com/portablecontacts/ [3] http://microformats.org/wiki/jCard [4] http://developer.yahoo.com/yql/ [5] http://lab.madgex.com/microformats/apidemo/testbed.aspx [6] http://ufapi.lab.madgex.com/ Glenn Jones On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:55 AM, David Janes davidja...@blogmatrix.com wrote: I've been playing about with representing microformats ... hCard in particular ... efficiently and usefully into JSON-type data structures. Here's a blog post on the topic [1]. Regards, etc... [1] http://code.davidjanes.com/blog/2009/03/02/auapi-encoding-hcards-in-js on/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] FYI: serialization of hCard into JSON
Hi David I have done quite bit of work around serialising microformats into both JSON and XML. The current version of my UfXtract parser is designed to consider the description of microformats as a loadable profiles. When I want to add a new microformat I build a new profile object. As such I have also been able to build generic JSON/XML serializers and de-serializers for the parser. They allow me to export and import microformats in JSON/XML without any data loss or added ambiguity. A while back I was really interested in moving this work forward within the community to get an agreed standard. There did not seem much interest at the time, so I documented some of my earlier work on wiki [1]. I think that Toby has since done some work with JSON support in Swignition. I have also looked at the Portable Contacts groups work and done some experimental conversions demos [2]. Although I think this project is a good idea, they have taken an approach with the scheme that allows for conversion between the 2 standards but there is some data loss, so it's not truly compatible. jCard[3] is also a good effort, my only problem was I wanted a serialization structure which can be applied to any microformat. It's also interesting to look at the work Yahoo has done with YQL [4], which can parse some microformats and return JSON/XML. Maybe not the best format, but very interesting toolset. Although the microformat design process did not originally have the concept of an output format, there are times when this would be useful. As parsers mature, we need an easy way to support the interchange and integration of data. Not just for parsers, but also for the applications that use them. A standard output format should encourage a greater culture of reuse and sharing between developers and help collaborative projects such as the building of shared test suites and other tools. If you check out the Microformats OAuth demo on my labs site you can see the serializer and de-serializer in action on the test bed page [5]. You have to create an account on the test site first. [6] [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/json [2] http://lab.madgex.com/portablecontacts/ [3] http://microformats.org/wiki/jCard [4] http://developer.yahoo.com/yql/ [5] http://lab.madgex.com/microformats/apidemo/testbed.aspx [6] http://ufapi.lab.madgex.com/ Glenn Jones On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:55 AM, David Janes davidja...@blogmatrix.com wrote: I've been playing about with representing microformats ... hCard in particular ... efficiently and usefully into JSON-type data structures. Here's a blog post on the topic [1]. Regards, etc... [1] http://code.davidjanes.com/blog/2009/03/02/auapi-encoding-hcards-in-js on/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Twitter implementation issues
The guys at Twitter have done a great job of adding microformats to their site. Like everyone else in the developer world I love building twitter mash-ups, (the new hello world) but I like to use microformats as my API. Unfortunately there are one or two small issue with the Twitter implementation. So I have fired off a email to their support, but have no heard back yet. I thought I may be able to reach them through the list. May be you work for Twitter and known the right person to forward this to. Below I documented some problems and made some suggestions on how they could be easily fixed. They are just suggestions. I already have a couple of Twitter integrations demo's for this year's SXSWi Microformats panel, I would love to increase what I could show. Thanks Glenn Jones Implementation issues: On the status pages ie http://twitter.com/glennjones. There are a couple of things that are stopping the status hEntry on twitter from parsing correctly. Also there are a number issues with the hCard which represents the user on the page. A) The first is that the status text is wrapped in entry-content class, but there is no entry-title. Unfortunately the entry-title is mandatory where entry-content is not. This is why the Firefox plug-in Operator is saying that entries mark-up is invalid. Incorrect: span class=entry-contentWeekend procrastination starts here./span So you could change the element holding the text to have a class of span class=entry-titleWeekend procrastination starts here./span Or use both classes on the element span class=entry-content entry-title Weekend procrastination starts here./span B) Secondly the updated property is required where as published is not, for completeness I would suggest using both. Most if not all Microformats parsers will only take the ISO date information from a title attribute of an abbr tag. So if you recode the element as follows we should be able to parse the date correctly. Incorrect: span class=published title=2009-01-31T13:55:33+00:0017 minutes ago/span to abbr class=published updated title=2009-01-31T13:55:33+00:0017 minutes ago/abbr C) The first is that a number of html elements contain in the hCard use the class label for styling which is used in the hCard schema so the parsers pick up the wrong information. These class names should be changed. D) On the individuals status page i.e. http://twitter.com/glennjones By adding the class note the bio will be added to the parsed information. Current: span class=bioWeb designer and developer/span to suggestion span class=bio noteWeb designer and developer/span There are a couple really useful bits of information that could be part of the hCard which are on another part of the page ie photo and username. Microformats provide a include pattern to deal with this issue. It uses an object to point to a fragment of html on the page which should be also included. ul class=about vcard entry-author lispan class=label-styleName/span span class=fnGlenn Jones/span/li lispan class=label-style Location/span span class=labelBrighton/span/li lispan class=label-style Web/span a href=http://www.glennjones.net/; class=url rel=me nofollowhttp://www.glennj.../a/li li id=biospan class=label-styleBio/span span class=bio noteWeb designer and developer/span/li object style=display:none data=#thumb class=include type=text/html height=1 width=1/object /ul elsewhere on the page h2 id=thumb a href=/account/profile_image/glennjones img class=photo alt= border=0 height=73 id=profile-image src=Twitter-Images/square-160_bigger.jpg valign=middle width=73 //a span class=nicknameglennjones/span /h2 I added the photo class to the img of the user and put a new span around the username and marked it up with the nickname class. The object needs to styled with displa:none to deal with a Safari rendering issue. The adr is not working in the current mark-up. As the address details are not structured I would suggest using the label class instead . The label class is a formatted version of a postal address (a string with embedded line breaks, punctuation, etc.). So combination like Brighton, UK or Austin, TX can be placed in the label property. E) It may be worth considering adding hEntries to the statuses listed by the search. http://search.twitter.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: Is there a script to convert xfolk -bookmarks.html ?
It helps if you give people the URL! http://lab.madgex.com/ufXtract/bookmarks.aspx I spent a little time this morning putting together a simple API. It takes a URL of a page with xFolk and returns a bookmarks.html document which can be imported into Firefox and IE. It's a simple conversion, so I have also added JSON and XML output of the full xFolk structure if you want to do other things with it. Hope it's what you where looking for Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: Is there a script to convert xfolk - bookmarks.html ?
André Luís wrote: Does anyone if anyone's written a script to grab content marked up with xfolk and convert it to Firefox bookmarks.html file? Hi I spent a little time this morning putting together a simple API. It takes a URL of a page with xFolk and returns a bookmarks.html document which can be imported into Firefox and IE. It's a simple conversion, so I have also added JSON and XML output of the full xFolk structure if you want to do other things with it. Hope it's what you where looking for Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Converting mircoformats to Portable Contacts API
I have been doing some research work on the new Portable Contacts API[4] and mircoformats. The Portable Contacts API is designed to enable users to securely port their profile, friend lists or address books from one site to another. It could be another part of the answer to the password anti-pattern. It uses a number of pre-existing technologies, with its data structures based around OpenSocial and vCard, which could create a common access pattern and contact schema for everyone to use. I have built a number of interfaces to help evaluate any data loss or added ambiguity that may occur when converting microformats into the Portable Contacts API data schema. 1 hCard to Portable Contacts API demo 2 hCard-XFN pattern to Portable Contacts API demo 3 hResume to Portable Contacts API demo They do not yet provide the querying, sorting and pagination nor the endpoint URL elements of the specification. It's also worth mentioning that Portable Contacts API is still in development and these interfaces are based on the Draft C specification. May or may not be of interest Glenn Jones [1] http://lab.madgex.com/portablecontacts/hcardtopoco.aspx [2] http://lab.madgex.com/portablecontacts/hcardxfntopoco.aspx [3] http://lab.madgex.com/portablecontacts/hresumetopoco.aspx [4] http://portablecontacts.net/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Microformats and OAuth
Hi All On Friday, Madgex has open-sourced a new c# OAuth library called OAuth.net. One of the demos is an example of using Microformats and OAuth together. We have built a very simple site which has a protected page containing an hCard. Using OAuth you can authorise access to the page at which point the demo site uses a microformats parser (ufXtract) to collect the contact details and pre-fill a form. Demo start ( go here and try it out ) http://lab.madgex.com/oauth-net/provider/ Page with hCard protect with OAuth http://oauthproviderdemo.madgex.com/user/contactdetails.aspx/ Username: testuser Password: letmein Currently, I am happy to publicly mark-up my work address in web pages, but not my home address. When I use XFN I never mark-up family members. However, by using this type of access control we could all mark-up more personal information. This demo was put together as a technical example, but with a little effort I am sure we could build a compelling user experience, which took the best elements of UF concept and added privacy. Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] Human and machine readable data format
As the exchange between Ben and Jeremy has shown what is human readable is up for debate. Having spent far too much time looking at the ISO date formats they are all readable to me, but I know that's not the case for everyone else. We need to expand the discussion and ask those involved in the accessibility area what is an acceptable human readable format. The format 2008-01-25 is a compromise and as such we need to ask the other party is it's an acceptable middle ground. For example would the BBC accept 2008-01-25 in the title of a abbr. For me a good rule of thumb is as a html author would you be happy writing out the format in the text of a page for your users to read. I personally would never write 2008-01-05 in a public document. My main issue with the value excerption optimization rule approach that Jeremy has been talking about, is that it may not work with other data types A abbr class=duration title=P2D2 day/abbr event abbr class=geo title=37.77;-122.41Northern California/abbr abbr class=tz title=-07:00EST/abbr abbr class=rate title=44 out of 5/abbr Etc. The only way to escape the internationalisation issues is not to use anything other than numerical and separator chars. Expressing a duration of 2 weeks and 3 days in numbers and is still making it human readable is a challenge! Could we also say the rate title attribute with a value 4 is provide the full or expanded form of the expression 4 out of 5. We do need to resolve this issue globally across all content which requires machine readability. Although this option looks attractive at first sight, it is still problematic. Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Human and machine readable data format
As we turnaround on the spot about machine data issue, the question of Natural Language Processing (NPL) has come up again. The main problem with any form of NLP is there are too many ambiguities in reading dates or any other form of freeform human written text. I don't want us to go down this path it is unworkable with currently available technologies. Against this we have statements like Tantek's. I'm vehemently opposed to putting data in the class attribute. We must find better alternatives. We must not go down the path of invisible (dark) (meta)data - IMHO that principle is inviolable for microformats. So I have tried to look at this again and reconcile the two opposing drivers above. Each time it makes me think of a mixed mode human and machine readable format. The date format which is human readable but has a very strict format which can be parsed. So rather than talk about it I have built a little prototype which demos the idea. http://ufxtract.com/experimental/hm-readable-date.htm This approach is not without its own problems, but it would provide a semantic use of the abbr pattern which does not raise any accessibility concerns. abbr class=dtstart title=Date: 25 January 2008 at 15:30, Time zone +1:00Jan 25 08/abbr On the down side we would have to re-invent the wheel with yet another date format. This approach would make parsers a lot heavier. Authors would have to understand the strict nature of the extended format using the abbr title. etc I thought I would put this forward - to get shot down ;-) This concept could be extended to the other data formats: Date: 25 January 2008 Date: 25 January 2008 at 15:30 Date: 25 January 2008 at 15:30, Time zone +1:30 Duration: 3 minutes, 47 seconds Location: latitude 37.77, longitude -122.41 Time zone: +1:30 Rated 1 out of 5 Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Twitter changes
Is there anyone on the list from Twitter or anyone who known's the guys at twitter. They have change the sites Html and the class hentry for a post is now hentry_hover. Which has broken the hAtom listings. This is probably not their biggest issue at the moment, but it a bit of a shame. Quick fix - class=hentry hentry_hover maybe Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] Rationale for providing hAtom instead of Atom/RSSfeeds
I did some experiments a while back which you may find interesting. It's a XFN parser which can spider pages following rel=next. http://lab.backnetwork.com/xfnpagination/ One of the more basic issues when using the web as an API is finding a method to interact with data split across multiple pages. We need a way of identifying additional information which is part of the current dataset, but on secondary pages. The rel attribute provides a practical standards based solution, which can be used to mark-up the next page in a series. We can do this with rel=me rel=next. Personal I think that microformats parser should support Url fragment. So you can mark-up groups of information and provide pagination in context of a page fragment. http://twitter.com/glennjones/#friends http://twitter.com/glennjones/#posts Targeting the second page of posts could look something like a href=http://twitter.com/glennjones/2/#posts; rel=nextNext/a Glenn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Janes Sent: 28 May 2008 18:46 To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Rationale for providing hAtom instead of Atom/RSSfeeds There's documented XFN examples of next/prev here [1] though I'm not sure what to make of the officialness of it. It would be cool this was formally documented in a way that could be used across microformats, though as Scott says in the -new mailing list. Regards, etc... David [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-xfn-supporting-friends-lists#Implement_hCard_XFN_supporting_friends_lists On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On [May 28], at [ May 28] 7:07 , André Luís wrote: I always thought of rel=next as a xfn-only thing. I'm not seeing rel=next in the XFN documentation. Unless I'm missing something, it's not only not XFN-only, it's not XFN at all. On [May 28], at [ May 28] 10:09 , André Luís wrote: hatom, rel=hfeed next hcalendar, rel=hcalendar next Since both formats have a root node to encapsulate several hentry|vevent, it would be (AFAIK) semantically correct. I don't believe those are appropriate uses of the rel attribute. Regardless, they're new uses, so if you're interested in pursuing this further, please take it to the -new list: http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-new/ Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- David Janes Founder, BlogMatrix http://www.blogmatrix.com http://www.onaswarm.com ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] FW: New microformats test-suite idea
As the dev list does not seem to be working at the moment, reposted here. Just added Operator to testrunner, but you have to use Firefox. If you go to http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/1.0/hcard1.htm and press Alt X you can see a working demonstration of the testrunner. Glenn -Original Message- From: Glenn Jones Sent: 03 May 2008 12:11 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: New microformats test-suite idea Hi all I have been working on a concept for a new microformats test-suite. I need a comprehensive test-suite before I can move the development of UfXtract forward. Rather than just build something in isolation I thought it would be nice to find a way to share this work with the community. I have written two POSH patterns testsuite and testfixture. They follow the principles of microformats design: * They are self-describing and created with HTML ,with no hidden metadata * Building a test should be easy even for those who are HTML authors * They are not linked to any one programming language and should be easy to share * They allow for the creation of an in-browser Testrunner For example go to http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/1.0/ The earliest tests for hcard used vcards to describe the expected output. As the community has moved forward it has designed microformats which are independent of external specification. So this test-suite is designed around the concept of a standardised data structure. In this case, expressed in JSON, but they could be converted into XPaths to test XML or other languages. I have started to build a small console app, which will spider the HTML and create NUnit/C# class files for my build tests. Although this is specific to my own parsers development, it should be easy to do the same for other programming languages and projects. Parsing testsuite and testfixture. I have already setup UfXtract to parse these patterns into JSON/XML. It would not take much for other microformats parser developers to construct profiles for these POSH patterns. Here is an example of the output. http://lab.backnetwork.com/ufXtract/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fufxtract.com%2Ftes tsuite%2Fhcard%2F1.0%2Fhcard1.htmformat=test-fixtureoutput=json The Testrunner If you go to http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/1.0/hcard1.htm and press Alt X you can see a working demonstration of the testrunner. I have observed that most parser developers are using comparative testing as their main tool to quickly understand how the complex rules and optimizations are applied. So I have built a JavaScript Testrunner which allows for simple comparative testing between parsers. It uses a number of techniques to standardise both access to the parsers API's and the JSON output. ***Please note that at this stage the JSON standardisation process can cause a test to be marked as failed when it could be judged to have passed***. Most of the current differences in parser output are down to whether a value is stored as single property or an array of properties. At the moment the Testrunner is only working with the testfixure , it would not take much to extend the Testrunner to run a whole test-suite. I would love to add Operator and other parsers to the Testrunner. Proof of concept This is very early proof of concept stuff. What I would like to ask is a number of questions before moving it forward. * Are people interested in the idea of shared test-suites? * What do you think to the approach? * Can you see any big issues with the concepts? * If you already have tests/test-suites, would you be willing to add them to the project? * Would you be interested in contributing to a project like this? Hope you like the idea. PS: the JavaScript needs serious re-factoring; I will simplify it soon. Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] FW: New microformats test-suite idea
Adam I am sorry on a Mac its ctrl alt x. http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/1.0/hcard1.htm Glenn On 07/05/2008 14:13, Adam Craven - Four Shapes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Glenn, It doesn't seem to work (Firefox 2/mac), Adam On 7 May 2008, at 11:39, Glenn Jones wrote: As the dev list does not seem to be working at the moment, reposted here. Just added Operator to testrunner, but you have to use Firefox. If you go to http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/1.0/hcard1.htm and press Alt X you can see a working demonstration of the testrunner. Glenn -Original Message- From: Glenn Jones Sent: 03 May 2008 12:11 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: New microformats test-suite idea Hi all I have been working on a concept for a new microformats test-suite. I need a comprehensive test-suite before I can move the development of UfXtract forward. Rather than just build something in isolation I thought it would be nice to find a way to share this work with the community. I have written two POSH patterns testsuite and testfixture. They follow the principles of microformats design: * They are self-describing and created with HTML ,with no hidden metadata * Building a test should be easy even for those who are HTML authors * They are not linked to any one programming language and should be easy to share * They allow for the creation of an in-browser Testrunner For example go to http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/1.0/ The earliest tests for hcard used vcards to describe the expected output. As the community has moved forward it has designed microformats which are independent of external specification. So this test-suite is designed around the concept of a standardised data structure. In this case, expressed in JSON, but they could be converted into XPaths to test XML or other languages. I have started to build a small console app, which will spider the HTML and create NUnit/C# class files for my build tests. Although this is specific to my own parsers development, it should be easy to do the same for other programming languages and projects. Parsing testsuite and testfixture. I have already setup UfXtract to parse these patterns into JSON/XML. It would not take much for other microformats parser developers to construct profiles for these POSH patterns. Here is an example of the output. http://lab.backnetwork.com/ufXtract/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fufxtract.com%2Ftes tsuite%2Fhcard%2F1.0%2Fhcard1.htmformat=test-fixtureoutput=json The Testrunner If you go to http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hcard/1.0/hcard1.htm and press Alt X you can see a working demonstration of the testrunner. I have observed that most parser developers are using comparative testing as their main tool to quickly understand how the complex rules and optimizations are applied. So I have built a JavaScript Testrunner which allows for simple comparative testing between parsers. It uses a number of techniques to standardise both access to the parsers API's and the JSON output. ***Please note that at this stage the JSON standardisation process can cause a test to be marked as failed when it could be judged to have passed***. Most of the current differences in parser output are down to whether a value is stored as single property or an array of properties. At the moment the Testrunner is only working with the testfixure , it would not take much to extend the Testrunner to run a whole test- suite. I would love to add Operator and other parsers to the Testrunner. Proof of concept This is very early proof of concept stuff. What I would like to ask is a number of questions before moving it forward. * Are people interested in the idea of shared test-suites? * What do you think to the approach? * Can you see any big issues with the concepts? * If you already have tests/test-suites, would you be willing to add them to the project? * Would you be interested in contributing to a project like this? Hope you like the idea. PS: the JavaScript needs serious re-factoring; I will simplify it soon. Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Standardized Representation of Microformats
I would really like microformats community to come up with a standardized JSON representation of microformat structures. Over the last few weeks I have asked number of people involved with microformats parsers if they were interested in a common JSON description for output and the answer seems so far has been a strong yes. The main reason is that it could help us build shared test suite and enable comparative testing between the parsers. Just like the move by the IE team to publicly release their test suites so that browser manufactures can start to coalesce around a testable understanding of a specification. We should start to do the same for microformat parsers. What we need first is a single output format to test against. JSON seems to cross both client and server world well, so it would be my choice. It would also help people build applications more easily as they would be able to switch from one parser/service to another and reuse code a little more. I am currently working on a test suite that uses a POSH pattern to express JSON based asserts i.e. NodeValue(vcard[0].url[2]) = http://www.flickr.com/photos/glennjonesnet/ You can see an example here http://lab.backnetwork.com/testsuite/hcard/1.0/hcard1.htm This is ufxtract parsing the test http://lab.backnetwork.com/ufXtract/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flab.backnetwork.co m%2Ftestsuite%2Fhcard%2F1.0%2Fhcard1.htmformat=test-fixtureoutput=text I am coding a JavaScript test runner using ufxtract to parses the test-fixture POSH pattern then I run the asserts and get a pass/fail response. This is all very early prototype work, but hopefully it shows the value of standardized JSON representation of microformat structures. Glenn Jones www.glennjones.net ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] ufxtract
On 21 Mar 2008, at 11:34, Dan Brickley wrote: Do you have any plans to opensource the ufxtract parser code? Because of a complex IP agreement that I am involved in, this could a little time. The good news is that I have managed to take the first steps down this road. Or is the test suite available? Did you see http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/ and http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/ for the RDFa testing framework? This is really useful, I am working on a demo POSH test-fixture format and a JavaScript test harness. Hopefully I will post this to the dev list in the next couple of weeks. Thanks Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] A (big) problem with XFN: identity of sourceandtarget not findable
Hi Roger If you interested in this area, the ufxtract parser I built directly uses the design patterns you have been talking about to extract portable social network date. It spiders sites following rel=me Parsers the xfn/hCard pattern Finds Representative hCard There is an API you can use http://lab.backnetwork.com/ufXtract-psn/. We have also created a demo web interface to show how the JSON can be used http://lab.backnetwork.com/ufXtract-psn/demo01.htm I wrote a small blog post Making your social networking data portable that may interest you. Also on my blog is the presentation I gave at Semantic Camp London which covers the more complex issues of extracting data from portable social networks. http://www.glennjones.net/ Glenn Jones ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] ufXtract's portable social network parser
ufXtract's portable social network parser is a combination of the ufXtract microformats parser and a spider which follows rel=me links. It has been designed to extract profiles and friends lists from social networks and other sites which have microformats support. The parser returns two main collections of data, all the rel=me links and any hCard-XFN patterns. The parser API http://lab.backnetwork.com/ufXtract-psn/ A demo using JavaScript and JSON http://lab.backnetwork.com/ufXtract-psn/demo01.htm The Parser You can set the parser to single single or multiple domains. Currently, there are limits to the number of pages which will be parsed (20). Each collection item is given an additional source-url attribute to identify its origin There is support for both XML and JSON output, for both client and server-side development. The parser also uses a version of the representative hCard concept, which tries to identify the hCard representing the profile owner. The implementation is a little more complex than described on the microformats wiki as it extends over multiple pages and domains. This means you may find multiple representative hCards from one call to the API, but there should only ever be one per a URL. The Demo I believe there are a number of different ways that this functionality could be designed into web sites. So I have provided a simple interface design to demonstrate one possibility. It's a bit of a homage to the getsatisfaction.com registration page with a few extra twists. I would like to thank my co-worker James Wragg who created the JavaScript for the demo. Of the sites listed on the demo last.fm and ma.gnolia.com return the best results. The other sites have differing levels of portable social network support. It also works well against blogs such as adactio.com or tantek.com that are marked-up with rel=me . It's worth trying out the two depth search levels. Pages not parsing You may find on some sites like twitter.com only certain pages are parsed. These sites often have good microformats support, but parts of their functionally are locked behind logon's. The parser does not support authenticated sessions as this would mean asking the user to pass me their log-in details which is a really bad idea. If I can lay my hands on a good Open-ID and/or OAuth C# libraries, I will try and implement some different types of authentication. Research This is all research work still under development, I placed it on the web for others to experiment with. I hope you enjoy playing with it. Glenn ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] ufXtract - new microformats parser
Guillaume Lebleu wrote: I was wondering what the configuration objects look like. Do you use a grammar for each uf expressed? They are c# collections. The plan is that once I have tuned the components compliancy, I will add Xml serialisation. This will mean that anyone will be able to defined their own POSH pattern or test new uf ideas. I believe this is similar to how Michael Kaply used JavaScript objects to defind microformats in Operator. Take a look at hAtom.js on http://www.kaply.com/weblog/operator-user-scripts/. The Xml from a ufXtract configuration objects should look like: ufformatdescriber namegeo/name descriptionLocation constructed of latitude and longitude/description typegeo/type ufelementdescriber name=geo attribute=class mandatory=false, multiples=true concatenatevalues=false type=text ufelementdescriber name=latitude attribute=class mandatory=false, multiples=false concatenatevalues=false type=text / ufelementdescriber name=longitude attribute=class mandatory=false, multiples=false concatenatevalues=false type=text / /ufelementdescriber /ufformatdescriber This are more complex in real life, but should give you an idea. You can not define everything this way, there are some rules like hCard implied 'n' optimization which cannot be describe with this type of schemea. That said it covers most cases without having to add new hardcoded rules to the parser. Glenn Jones www.glennjones.net ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
RE: [uf-discuss] ufXtract - new microformats parser
André Luís: wrote I just tested it on my blog and I think there might be an issue with charsets different than utf-8. I'm using iso-8859-1, by the way. Thanks for the feedback, this a classic .net text handling issue, it hates anything that's not in utf-8. I will try and fix it ASAP Glenn Jones www.glennjones.net ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] ufXtract - new microformats parser
Hi All I have being work hard on a new microformats parser (ufXtract) to help explore the real world issues of creating portable social networks. Although I have previously designed a number spiders that can find the most common hCard and XFN structures, this is my first full blown parser. It has been built from the ground up to take configuration objects which allow the parsing of different microformats or POSH patterns. It was important that I could parse more general patterns such as the joint hCard-XFN being promoted for use with friend's lists. http://lab.backnetwork.com/ufXtract/ After some further testing I am going to start to produce a number of portable social network demo's and posts. This should also provide others with experimental API's. By sharing this early work I hope in some way to add to the important technical and architectural discussions that are taking place. I have already added hCard-XFN, rel=me, rel=next and hAtom to the parser. These are the four cornerstone microformats/patterns required to gather profile and content from other social networks. Although for technical/speed reasons ufXtract is currently only parsing the hEntry sub-element of hAtom. The component also contains extendable output options, so far, I have built a simple text format for debugging, JSON and XML for building services. For the more technically minded ufXtract is a .net component written in c#. It uses a combination of DOM structures and xPaths. It can typically parse a page in 50-200ms. At the moment, I am building a test suite to fine tune the components' compliancy. It still has some small issues with most of the compound microformats, which I am trying to address. If you have any comments or want to point out any issues, please give me as much feedback as possible. Thanks Glenn Jones www.glennjones.net ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
