Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
On 12/16/08, Martin McEvoy mar...@weborganics.co.uk wrote: Hello Scott I don't understand your issue , are you suggesting that a hcard may have more than one UID element? The UID element *is* the Unique Identifier of an entire hcard/vcard http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-singular-properties#uid --- Scott is talking about the definition of UID from the RFC itself. There is always the possibility that the wiki is not correct. FROM: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2426#page-24 3.6.7 UID Type Definition To: ietf-mime-direct...@imc.org Subject: Registration of text/directory MIME type UID Type name: UID Type purpose: To specify a value that represents a globally unique identifier corresponding to the individual or resource associated with the vCard. So the UID is NOT the vCard itself, but connected to the data that is contained within it. This is how you can do identity consolidation. How you know that vCard over there with UID:123 is the same person as this vCard over here with UID:123 Even if they both have different information. This is why we have been trying to connect UID and URL, much like XFN and OpenID your identity is your URL, which is globally unique. I will update the wiki page. -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
On 12/16/08, Martin McEvoy mar...@weborganics.co.uk wrote: Thank you for the clarification, the wiki page has had that definition for 2 and a half years. Makes me think how much more information on the wiki is wrong or misleading? --- it is no worse than the web in general, or articles or books written. The benefits of the wiki is that we can spot issues and anyone can correct them. I am sure (and positive) Wikipedia and others have incorrect information, some will go unnoticed for awhile, but a wikis actually have the ability to be updated, whereas other sources do not. So +1 for wikis and community editing. It is just a matter of always going back to the source when possible. (I personally can't read some languages this wiki has been translated too, so everyone always need to confirm their sources, I´m sure there are issues on those pages as well - that's the nature of the web. We can't believe everything we read online - no matter how convincing the conspiracy theorists might sound) -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
OK, can I just make sure I've grasped the outcome of this UID exchange? So... It's considered ok to use UID on multiple vcards on a single page. If any of multiple vcards on a single page represent the same person the vcards should be given the same UID. If any of the multiple vcards on a single page represent different people or organisations the vcards should NOT have the same UID. If any of the multiple vcards on a single page, that represent different people or organisations, for some reason need to share the same URI in the UID element, then the URI should be suffixed with a fragment identifier unique to that person or organisation - with the same unique identifiier also set as the id attribute of the UID element. please correct any errors in the above! James Brian Suda wrote: On 12/16/08, Martin McEvoy mar...@weborganics.co.uk wrote: Hello Scott I don't understand your issue , are you suggesting that a hcard may have more than one UID element? The UID element *is* the Unique Identifier of an entire hcard/vcard http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-singular-properties#uid --- Scott is talking about the definition of UID from the RFC itself. There is always the possibility that the wiki is not correct. FROM: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2426#page-24 3.6.7 UID Type Definition To: ietf-mime-direct...@imc.org Subject: Registration of text/directory MIME type UID Type name: UID Type purpose: To specify a value that represents a globally unique identifier corresponding to the individual or resource associated with the vCard. So the UID is NOT the vCard itself, but connected to the data that is contained within it. This is how you can do identity consolidation. How you know that vCard over there with UID:123 is the same person as this vCard over here with UID:123 Even if they both have different information. This is why we have been trying to connect UID and URL, much like XFN and OpenID your identity is your URL, which is globally unique. I will update the wiki page. -brian -- - James Tindall http://www.atomless.com/ T : +44(0)1305 250 377 M : +44(0)7971 012 032 F : +44(0)1305 250 377 - ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
Brian Suda wrote: On 12/16/08, Martin McEvoy mar...@weborganics.co.uk wrote: Hello Scott I don't understand your issue , are you suggesting that a hcard may have more than one UID element? The UID element *is* the Unique Identifier of an entire hcard/vcard http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-singular-properties#uid --- Scott is talking about the definition of UID from the RFC itself. There is always the possibility that the wiki is not correct. FROM: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2426#page-24 3.6.7 UID Type Definition To: ietf-mime-direct...@imc.org Subject: Registration of text/directory MIME type UID Type name: UID Type purpose: To specify a value that represents a globally unique identifier corresponding to the individual or resource associated with the vCard. So the UID is NOT the vCard itself, but connected to the data that is contained within it. This is how you can do identity consolidation. How you know that vCard over there with UID:123 is the same person as this vCard over here with UID:123 Even if they both have different information. This is why we have been trying to connect UID and URL, much like XFN and OpenID your identity is your URL, which is globally unique. I will update the wiki page. Hello Brian, Thank you for the clarification, the wiki page has had that definition for 2 and a half years. http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-singular-propertiesoldid=7065 Makes me think how much more information on the wiki is wrong or misleading? Thanks -brian -- Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ You may find it hard to swallow the notion that anything as large and apparently inanimate as the Earth is alive. Dr. James Lovelock, The Ages of Gaia ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
All very helpful and informative - thanks Toby! Toby A Inkster wrote: James Tindall: Incidentally however, this vcard validator now complains that uid should not appear twice on a page with the same value? http://hcard.geekhood.net/?url=microformats.tumblr.com There is no prohibition on reusing UIDs in the hCard spec, but hcard.geekhood.net goes far beyond the spec with regards to suggesting best practices and things you might have missed. In general, I think it's a good tool, but in this case I (personally) disagree with it. If Joe has an hCard for himself on his index.html and another hCard for himself on his contact-me.html, then nobody would think twice about giving them both the same UID. So if two hCards on different pages can have the same UID, then why not two hCards on the same page? What is important (and again this is just my opinion) is that if two hCards do have the same UID (whether they're on different pages or the same page), then they should be referring to the same contact (person, organisation, place, whatever). To back up my argument, I'll cite the vCard spec (RFC 2426) which defines the purpose of UID as: To specify a value that represents a globally unique identifier corresponding to the individual or resource associated with the vCard. That is, the UID is a unique identifier for the contact, not a unique identifier for the card. I've contacted Kornel about this warning message and suggested that he change it so that the warning is only issued if two hCards have the same UID but different FNs. As an aside, I'll point out that I do *not* recommend using the same UID for the historic hCards in a resume, because in that situation, merging details is not the desired behaviour - you want them to be kept separate. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
Thanks to all for the parser links! - all are now listed on the post about extraction: http://microformats.tumblr.com/post/64799295/extracting-meaningful-content-from-hatom-formatted Martin McEvoy wrote: Toby A Inkster wrote: Me too! Of course, the more the merrier :-D http://srv.buzzword.org.uk/atom/microformats.tumblr.com/ http://srv.buzzword.org.uk/icalendar/microformats.tumblr.com/ http://srv.buzzword.org.uk/vcard/microformats.tumblr.com/ Note that the vCard output contains many different James Tindalls. If you gave all your hCards the same uid it would (using the most technical language possible...) glue them together and the vCard output would just contain one contact. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
Toby A Inkster wrote: Note that the vCard output contains many different James Tindalls. If you gave all your hCards the same uid it would (using the most technical language possible...) glue them together and the vCard output would just contain one contact. Good point Toby! I've now added uid to all entry vcards and Operator (firefox addon), as you suggested, now correctly glues the vcards together rather than listing multiple separate contacts (I've set this up so it should also work for group tumblogs). Incidentally however, this vcard validator now complains that uid should not appear twice on a page with the same value? http://hcard.geekhood.net/?url=microformats.tumblr.com James ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
Hello Toby, James Toby A Inkster wrote: James Tindall: Incidentally however, this vcard validator now complains that uid should not appear twice on a page with the same value? http://hcard.geekhood.net/?url=microformats.tumblr.com There is no prohibition on reusing UIDs in the hCard spec, but hcard.geekhood.net goes far beyond the spec with regards to suggesting best practices and things you might have missed. In general, I think it's a good tool, but in this case I (personally) disagree with it. If Joe has an hCard for himself on his index.html and another hCard for himself on his contact-me.html, then nobody would think twice about giving them both the same UID. So if two hCards on different pages can have the same UID, then why not two hCards on the same page? What is important (and again this is just my opinion) is that if two hCards do have the same UID (whether they're on different pages or the same page), then they should be referring to the same contact (person, organisation, place, whatever). To back up my argument, I'll cite the vCard spec (RFC 2426) which defines the purpose of UID as: To specify a value that represents a globally unique identifier corresponding to the individual or resource associated with the vCard. That is, the UID is a unique identifier for the contact, not a unique identifier for the card. Nope you will find that the UID is for the entire vcard I've contacted Kornel about this warning message and suggested that he change it so that the warning is only issued if two hCards have the same UID but different FNs. I would say that is wrong too, what is wrong with that is how authors commonly mark up the UID of a hCard in microformats eg: a class=url uid href=http://myfoosite.com/;myfoosite/a where this all falls apart is that if there is more than one regular author of a site they might all want to use the same url, Its easily solvable by adding @id to a hCard and using a relative url a class=url uid href=http://myfoosite.com/#person1;myfoosite/a a class=url uid href=http://myfoosite.com/#person2;myfoosite/a All that aside UID should *only* really be used once on a page to define a single authoritative point of contact, using more than one UID really seems to defeat the object when you think about it.. As an aside, I'll point out that I do *not* recommend using the same UID for the historic hCards in a resume, because in that situation, merging details is not the desired behaviour - you want them to be kept separate. Best Wishes. -- Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ You may find it hard to swallow the notion that anything as large and apparently inanimate as the Earth is alive. Dr. James Lovelock, The Ages of Gaia ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
On [Dec 15], at [ Dec 15] 12:54 , Martin McEvoy wrote: To back up my argument, I'll cite the vCard spec (RFC 2426) which defines the purpose of UID as: To specify a value that represents a globally unique identifier corresponding to the individual or resource associated with the vCard. That is, the UID is a unique identifier for the contact, not a unique identifier for the card. Nope you will find that the UID is for the entire vcard That seems to directly contradict the RFC as Toby quoted. Everything after this seems to hinge on what UID means, so clearing this up may resolve everything else. What exactly do you mean by you will find? Find somewhere other than the RFC? Find on a different reading of the RFC? I'm not finding that at all in my reading of the RFC, which seems to be pretty much the same as Toby's, i.e. the UID is for the contact, not the vCard. I rely on this definition of UID every time I sync my address book. Two vCards with the same UID are assumed to be the same contact, because the UID identifies the contact. If UID were for the vCard, those two vCards would necessarily have different UIDs and I'd end up with duplicate contacts in my address book. Peace, Scott ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
Scott Reynen wrote: On [Dec 15], at [ Dec 15] 12:54 , Martin McEvoy wrote: To back up my argument, I'll cite the vCard spec (RFC 2426) which defines the purpose of UID as: To specify a value that represents a globally unique identifier corresponding to the individual or resource associated with the vCard. That is, the UID is a unique identifier for the contact, not a unique identifier for the card. Nope you will find that the UID is for the entire vcard That seems to directly contradict the RFC as Toby quoted. Everything after this seems to hinge on what UID means, so clearing this up may resolve everything else. What exactly do you mean by you will find? Find somewhere other than the RFC? Hello Scott I don't understand your issue , are you suggesting that a hcard may have more than one UID element? The UID element *is* the Unique Identifier of an entire hcard/vcard http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-singular-properties#uid Find on a different reading of the RFC? I'm not finding that at all in my reading of the RFC, which seems to be pretty much the same as Toby's, i.e. the UID is for the contact, not the vCard. I rely on this definition of UID every time I sync my address book. Two vCards with the same UID are assumed to be the same contact, because the UID identifies the contact. If UID were for the vCard, those two vCards would necessarily have different UIDs and I'd end up with duplicate contacts in my address book. Correct, what If I had multiple hcards on a single page for different organizations or companies I work for all marked containing uid, every @href attribute may be different but all essentially Me, In my address book I have multiple contacts for the same person, Don't you? Anyway you missed my point what I was saying is that no two uid values on a page should be the same even if they are for different people, make them different somehow. what I said about authoritative hcard, I ment representative hcard sorry my mistake Thanks -- Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ You may find it hard to swallow the notion that anything as large and apparently inanimate as the Earth is alive. Dr. James Lovelock, The Ages of Gaia ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
Great spot David, the microformatic hatom to atom transformer now
extracts the content successfully. Thanks!
David Janes wrote:
Hmmm ... HTML Tidy on this gets upset at the DISQUS script line:
document.write('script type=text/javascript src=http://disqus.co...
If you change this to:
document.write('' + 'script type=text/javascript src=http://disqus.co...
does it get better?
Regards, etc...
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 9:19 AM, James Tindall ja...@atomless.com wrote:
I've just put together a microformats theme for tumblr that implements hatom.
The microformats transformer Optimus (http://microformatique.com/optimus) seems
to be able to seccessfully transform the content to Atom format but the
microformatic hatom to atom parser fails. I'm wondering if this is due to some
of the invalid markup that I know is generated by the tumblr system but is
beyond the control of any theme or if there are any problems with the way I've
implemented hatom?
If anyone on this list has a second to take a look the theme is hosted here:
http://microformats.tumblr.com/ and the source for the theme is here:
http://github.com/atomless/a-microformats-theme-for-tumblr/tree/master
james
--
James Tindall
http://jamestindall.info/
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Mercenary Programmer
http://code.davidjanes.com
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Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
James Tindall wrote:
Great spot David, the microformatic hatom to atom transformer now
extracts the content successfully. Thanks!
Hello James,
Also tested working at
http://transformr.co.uk/hatom/http://microformats.tumblr.com/
great stuff James.
David Janes wrote:
Hmmm ... HTML Tidy on this gets upset at the DISQUS script line:
document.write('script type=text/javascript src=http://disqus.co...
If you change this to:
document.write('' + 'script type=text/javascript
src=http://disqus.co...
does it get better?
Regards, etc...
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 9:19 AM, James Tindall ja...@atomless.com
wrote:
I've just put together a microformats theme for tumblr that
implements hatom. The microformats transformer Optimus
(http://microformatique.com/optimus) seems to be able to
seccessfully transform the content to Atom format but the
microformatic hatom to atom parser fails. I'm wondering if this is
due to some of the invalid markup that I know is generated by the
tumblr system but is beyond the control of any theme or if there are
any problems with the way I've implemented hatom?
If anyone on this list has a second to take a look the theme is
hosted here: http://microformats.tumblr.com/ and the source for the
theme is here:
http://github.com/atomless/a-microformats-theme-for-tumblr/tree/master
james
--
James Tindall
http://jamestindall.info/
--
Martin McEvoy
http://weborganics.co.uk/
You may find it hard to swallow the notion that anything as large and apparently
inanimate as the Earth is alive.
Dr. James Lovelock, The Ages of Gaia
___
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discuss@microformats.org
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Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
Ooo ... can I play too? ;-)
http://tinyurl.com/5utaod
Regards, etc...
David
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Martin McEvoy
mar...@weborganics.co.uk wrote:
Martin McEvoy wrote:
James Tindall wrote:
Great spot David, the microformatic hatom to atom transformer now extracts
the content successfully. Thanks!
Hello James,
Also tested working at
http://transformr.co.uk/hatom/http://microformats.tumblr.com/
Interestingly enough there is a FOAF file too
http://transformr.co.uk/hfoaf/http://microformats.tumblr.com/ ;-)
great stuff James.
David Janes wrote:
Hmmm ... HTML Tidy on this gets upset at the DISQUS script line:
document.write('script type=text/javascript src=http://disqus.co...
If you change this to:
document.write('' + 'script type=text/javascript
src=http://disqus.co...
does it get better?
Regards, etc...
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 9:19 AM, James Tindall ja...@atomless.com wrote:
I've just put together a microformats theme for tumblr that implements
hatom. The microformats transformer Optimus
(http://microformatique.com/optimus) seems to be able to seccessfully
transform the content to Atom format but the microformatic hatom to atom
parser fails. I'm wondering if this is due to some of the invalid markup
that I know is generated by the tumblr system but is beyond the control
of any theme or if there are any problems with the way I've implemented
hatom?
If anyone on this list has a second to take a look the theme is hosted
here: http://microformats.tumblr.com/ and the source for the theme is
here:
http://github.com/atomless/a-microformats-theme-for-tumblr/tree/master
james
--
James Tindall
http://jamestindall.info/
--
Martin McEvoy
http://weborganics.co.uk/
You may find it hard to swallow the notion that anything as large and
apparently inanimate as the Earth is alive.
Dr. James Lovelock, The Ages of Gaia
___
microformats-discuss mailing list
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--
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http://code.davidjanes.com
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Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
Toby A Inkster wrote: Me too! Of course, the more the merrier :-D http://srv.buzzword.org.uk/atom/microformats.tumblr.com/ http://srv.buzzword.org.uk/icalendar/microformats.tumblr.com/ http://srv.buzzword.org.uk/vcard/microformats.tumblr.com/ Note that the vCard output contains many different James Tindalls. If you gave all your hCards the same uid it would (using the most technical language possible...) glue them together and the vCard output would just contain one contact. -- Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ You may find it hard to swallow the notion that anything as large and apparently inanimate as the Earth is alive. Dr. James Lovelock, The Ages of Gaia ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
David Janes wrote:
Ooo ... can I play too? ;-)
http://tinyurl.com/5utaod
You can If you like... :-)
Regards, etc...
David
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Martin McEvoy
mar...@weborganics.co.uk wrote:
Martin McEvoy wrote:
James Tindall wrote:
Great spot David, the microformatic hatom to atom transformer now extracts the
content successfully. Thanks!
Hello James,
Also tested working at
http://transformr.co.uk/hatom/http://microformats.tumblr.com/
Interestingly enough there is a FOAF file too
http://transformr.co.uk/hfoaf/http://microformats.tumblr.com/ ;-)
great stuff James.
David Janes wrote:
Hmmm ... HTML Tidy on this gets upset at the DISQUS script line:
document.write('script type=text/javascript src=http://disqus.co...
If you change this to:
document.write('' + 'script type=text/javascript src=http://disqus.co...
does it get better?
Regards, etc...
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 9:19 AM, James Tindall ja...@atomless.com wrote:
I've just put together a microformats theme for tumblr that implements hatom.
The microformats transformer Optimus (http://microformatique.com/optimus) seems
to be able to seccessfully transform the content to Atom format but the
microformatic hatom to atom parser fails. I'm wondering if this is due to some
of the invalid markup that I know is generated by the tumblr system but is
beyond the control of any theme or if there are any problems with the way I've
implemented hatom?
If anyone on this list has a second to take a look the theme is hosted here:
http://microformats.tumblr.com/ and the source for the theme is here:
http://github.com/atomless/a-microformats-theme-for-tumblr/tree/master
james
--
James Tindall
http://jamestindall.info/
--
Martin McEvoy
http://weborganics.co.uk/
You may find it hard to swallow the notion that anything as large and apparently
inanimate as the Earth is alive.
Dr. James Lovelock, The Ages of Gaia
___
microformats-discuss mailing list
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http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
--
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Mercenary Programmer
http://code.davidjanes.com
___
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discuss@microformats.org
http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
--
Martin McEvoy
http://weborganics.co.uk/
You may find it hard to swallow the notion that anything as large and apparently
inanimate as the Earth is alive.
Dr. James Lovelock, The Ages of Gaia
___
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discuss@microformats.org
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Re: [uf-discuss] hatom tumblr theme
Hmmm ... HTML Tidy on this gets upset at the DISQUS script line:
document.write('script type=text/javascript src=http://disqus.co...
If you change this to:
document.write('' + 'script type=text/javascript src=http://disqus.co...
does it get better?
Regards, etc...
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 9:19 AM, James Tindall ja...@atomless.com wrote:
I've just put together a microformats theme for tumblr that implements hatom.
The microformats transformer Optimus (http://microformatique.com/optimus)
seems to be able to seccessfully transform the content to Atom format but the
microformatic hatom to atom parser fails. I'm wondering if this is due to
some of the invalid markup that I know is generated by the tumblr system but
is beyond the control of any theme or if there are any problems with the way
I've implemented hatom?
If anyone on this list has a second to take a look the theme is hosted here:
http://microformats.tumblr.com/ and the source for the theme is here:
http://github.com/atomless/a-microformats-theme-for-tumblr/tree/master
james
--
James Tindall
http://jamestindall.info/
___
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discuss@microformats.org
http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
--
David Janes
Mercenary Programmer
http://code.davidjanes.com
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