Re: lost+found disappeared
Alexander Hall, 30 Oct 2014 00:48: On 10/30/14 00:11, frantisek holop wrote: what does it mean when /lost+found disappears? i am sure i had it a couple of days ago (because that is when i completely reinstalled the system). A reinstall does not render you any lost+found directories. with newfs and everything? -f -- this is a tagline- whatever that is!
Re: lost+found disappeared
Philip Guenther, 29 Oct 2014 21:26: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 4:11 PM, frantisek holop min...@obiit.org wrote: what does it mean when /lost+found disappears? i am sure i had it a couple of days ago (because that is when i completely reinstalled the system). How confident are you that it existed at that point? Looking at my own laptop, I don't see one in /. Indeed, the only partitions with one are those that have needed one after a crash. newfs certainly doesn't create one by default. i was fairly certain as i was opening the files in it to see what showed up there. but with all the panics and the reinstalls i got confused. sorry about that, perhaps i was looking at it before the reinstall as this is the first panic i got after the reinstall. i mounted everything using sync so it looks like it survived the panic and fsck much better :) is there a way to record the bootup fsck output without a serial console? (just had a panic again, but this time a blind 'boot dump' resulted only in a reboot) I would be bidding on cheap computers on ebay and starting with the plainest install possible if my box was failing like yours. i agree that at the moment my openbsd experience is very suboptimal. in fact, i get a panic sooner or later every 3-4 days (i suspend with lid). i am not a masochist (i keep telling myself), i am just trying to get a good kernel core dump and a usable bug report. the problem is that sometimes the fs cannot survive a lockup like this out of the blue. however the first genuine (not fs related) panic i got was i think ath(4) related. throughput on this card is very bad (and i am sitting next to the router) and periodically i have to kickstart it with ifconfig scan because it just stops. and the netbsd driver is of no help here :( so my next step is trying a run(4) usb dongle for a couple of days and see if the panics go away. this is a thinkpad X60s, and those don't come cheap. i am not aware (yet) of any of the hw failing, so i would like to keep it. -f -- i plan to live forever or die trying.
Re: lost+found disappeared
On October 30, 2014 9:33:24 AM CET, frantisek holop min...@obiit.org wrote: Alexander Hall, 30 Oct 2014 00:48: On 10/30/14 00:11, frantisek holop wrote: what does it mean when /lost+found disappears? i am sure i had it a couple of days ago (because that is when i completely reinstalled the system). A reinstall does not render you any lost+found directories. with newfs and everything? Yes, newfs does not render you any lost+found directories. -f
DRM. intel_crct_config errors
Hi, All! I can't set a fullhd resoulution on my second monitor. I don't see 1920x1080 in xrandr's output, so I used cvt to create a new one, but in the end I got intel_crct errors in dmesg. Here are some outputs. - cvt 1920 1080 # 1920x1080 59.96 Hz (CVT 2.07M9) hsync: 67.16 kHz; pclk: 173.00 MHz Modeline 1920x1080_60.00 173.00 1920 2048 2248 2576 1080 1083 1088 1120 -hsync +vsync - xrandr -q Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 2880 x 1024, maximum 32767 x 32767 eDP1 connected 1600x900+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 309mm x 174mm 1600x900 60.0*+ 1024x768 60.0 800x60060.3 56.2 640x48059.9 DP1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) HDMI1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) DP2 connected 1280x1024+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 477mm x 268mm 1600x900 60.0 1280x1024 75.0*60.0 1440x900 59.9 1280x800 59.8 1152x864 75.0 1280x720 60.0 1024x768 75.1 70.1 60.0 832x62474.6 800x60072.2 75.0 60.3 56.2 640x48072.8 66.7 60.0 720x40070.1 1920x1080_60.00 60.0 HDMI2 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) VIRTUAL1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) - xrandr --output DP2 --mode 1920x1080_60.00 --verbose screen 0: 3520x1080 928x284 mm 96.33dpi crtc 1: 1920x1080_60.00 60.0 +1600+0 DP2 xrandr: Configure crtc 1 failed crtc 0: disable crtc 1: disable crtc 2: disable crtc 3: disable screen 0: revert crtc 0: revert crtc 1: revert crtc 2: revert crtc 3: revert - dmesg | tail -4 error: [drm:pid1939:intel_crtc_set_config] *ERROR* failed to set mode on [CRTC:5] error: [drm:pid1939:intel_crtc_set_config] *ERROR* failed to set mode on [CRTC:5] error: [drm:pid1939:intel_dp_set_link_train] *ERROR* Timed out waiting for DP idle patterns error: [drm:pid1939:i915_write32] *ERROR* Unknown unclaimed register before writing to 64040 Optimal resolution for my external monitor is 1920x1080 60Hz and I definetely know that my VGA output support FullHD Regards, lifayk
Re: enumerate sndio devices
On Oct 29 20:40:30, rus...@outband.net wrote: I feel as if i am overlooking somthing obvious, but.. Is there a way to list sndio endpoints? sndiod recognizes real HW devices (-f) and exposes subdevices (-s) for the applications to use. What's an endpoint? Specifically I was trying to attach a scope(probably one of the ffplay visualizations) to the main output. Whatever attach a scope means - what exactly did you do? Jan
Re: lost+found disappeared
On Oct 30 00:11:49, min...@obiit.org wrote: what does it mean when /lost+found disappears? It doesn't. You must have removed it. i am sure i had it a couple of days ago (because that is when i completely reinstalled the system). Ah, so you completely reinstalled? Then you have a fresh system where there are no lost+found directories. These are only created when fsck needs to reattach UNREF files. should i recreate it by hand? No, fsck will. shouldn't fsck create it? It does. especially when there were a lot of UNREF files and an unclean shutdown... Exactly.
Re: lost+found disappeared
Jan Stary, 30 Oct 2014 10:25: Ah, so you completely reinstalled? Then you have a fresh system where there are no lost+found directories. These are only created when fsck needs to reattach UNREF files. these are the last lines of fsck i can see: /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): UNREF FILE I=2182994 OWNER=f MODE=100600 /dev/sd0a: SIZE=12070 MTIME=Oct 29 23:35 2014 (CLEARED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): BLK(S) MISSING IN BIT MAPS (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): 375626 files, 5521342 used, 10992840 free (6488 frags, 1373294 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): MARKING FILE SYSTEM CLEAN $ ls / altroot/ boot bsd.rd dev/ etc/ mnt/ sbin/tmp/ var/ bin/ bsd bsd.sp emul/home/root/sys@ usr/ -f -- this message was brought to you by the Campaign to Save Humans.
Re: DRM. intel_crct_config errors
Xorg.0.log and full dmesg. Xorg.0.log: [14.783] (--) checkDevMem: using aperture driver /dev/xf86 [14.801] (--) Using wscons driver on /dev/ttyC4 in pcvt compatibility mode (version 3.32) [14.823] X.Org X Server 1.14.5 Release Date: 2013-12-12 [14.823] X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 [14.823] Build Operating System: OpenBSD 5.5 amd64 [14.823] Current Operating System: OpenBSD t4.my.local 5.5 T440s#1 amd64 [14.823] Build Date: 26 February 2014 09:16:04PM [14.823] [14.823] Current version of pixman: 0.32.4 [14.823] Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. [14.823] Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. [14.824] (==) Log file: /var/log/Xorg.0.log, Time: Thu Oct 30 10:04:26 2014 [14.825] (==) Using system config directory /usr/X11R6/share/X11/xorg.conf.d [14.826] (==) No Layout section. Using the first Screen section. [14.826] (==) No screen section available. Using defaults. [14.826] (**) |--Screen Default Screen Section (0) [14.826] (**) | |--Monitor default monitor [14.827] (==) No monitor specified for screen Default Screen Section. Using a default monitor configuration. [14.827] (==) Disabling SIGIO handlers for input devices [14.827] (==) Automatically adding devices [14.827] (==) Automatically enabling devices [14.827] (==) Not automatically adding GPU devices [14.833] (==) FontPath set to: /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/OTF/, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/, /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/ [14.833] (==) ModulePath set to /usr/X11R6/lib/modules [14.833] (II) The server relies on wscons to provide the list of input devices. If no devices become available, reconfigure wscons or disable AutoAddDevices. [14.833] (II) Loader magic: 0x16ed896ec040 [14.833] (II) Module ABI versions: [14.833] X.Org ANSI C Emulation: 0.4 [14.834] X.Org Video Driver: 14.1 [14.834] X.Org XInput driver : 19.1 [14.834] X.Org Server Extension : 7.0 [14.834] (--) PCI:*(0:0:2:0) 8086:0a16:17aa:220c rev 11, Mem @ 0xf000/4194304, 0xe000/268435456, I/O @ 0x3000/64 [14.834] Initializing built-in extension Generic Event Extension [14.834] Initializing built-in extension SHAPE [14.834] Initializing built-in extension MIT-SHM [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XInputExtension [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XTEST [14.834] Initializing built-in extension BIG-REQUESTS [14.834] Initializing built-in extension SYNC [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XKEYBOARD [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XC-MISC [14.834] Initializing built-in extension SECURITY [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XINERAMA [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XFIXES [14.834] Initializing built-in extension RENDER [14.834] Initializing built-in extension RANDR [14.834] Initializing built-in extension COMPOSITE [14.834] Initializing built-in extension DAMAGE [14.834] Initializing built-in extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER [14.834] Initializing built-in extension DOUBLE-BUFFER [14.834] Initializing built-in extension RECORD [14.834] Initializing built-in extension DPMS [14.834] Initializing built-in extension X-Resource [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XVideo [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XVideo-MotionCompensation [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XFree86-VidModeExtension [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XFree86-DGA [14.834] Initializing built-in extension XFree86-DRI [14.834] Initializing built-in extension DRI2 [14.835] (II) LoadModule: glx [14.837] (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.so [14.839] (II) Module glx: vendor=X.Org Foundation [14.839] compiled for 1.14.5, module version = 1.0.0 [14.839] ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 7.0 [14.839] (==) AIGLX enabled [14.840] Loading extension GLX [14.840] (==) Matched intel as autoconfigured driver 0 [14.840] (==) Matched vesa as autoconfigured driver 1 [14.840] (==) Assigned the driver to the xf86ConfigLayout [14.840] (II) LoadModule: intel [14.840] (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/intel_drv.so [14.845] (II) Module intel: vendor=X.Org Foundation [14.845] compiled for 1.14.5, module version = 2.99.910 [14.845] Module class: X.Org Video Driver [14.845] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 14.1 [14.845] (II) LoadModule: vesa [14.846] (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/vesa_drv.so [14.847] (II) Module vesa: vendor=X.Org Foundation [14.847] compiled for 1.14.5, module version = 2.3.3 [14.847] Module
LibreOffice woes
Hello, libreoffice-4.3.2.2p0v0, installed from packages, coredumps when on saving the file. I observe this behaviour whether it is a manual save, or an autosave. Aside from this I can open and edit any file. The hardware and memory is definitely not an issue, as everything else works correctly and I've also tried to run LibreOffice alone, to eliminate the possibility is it the memory size issues. Does anybody else observe such behaviour? -- With best regards, Gregory Edigarov
Re: LibreOffice woes
On Thu, October 30, 2014 14:21, Gregory Edigarov wrote: Hello, libreoffice-4.3.2.2p0v0, installed from packages, coredumps when on saving the file. I observe this behaviour whether it is a manual save, or an autosave. Aside from this I can open and edit any file. The hardware and memory is definitely not an issue, as everything else works correctly and I've also tried to run LibreOffice alone, to eliminate the possibility is it the memory size issues. Does anybody else observe such behaviour? Hi. It is known and I guess maintainer is working on it. http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-portsm=141442410707633w=2 -- With best regards, Gregory Edigarov
Re: LibreOffice woes
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 01:21:48PM +0200, Gregory Edigarov wrote: Hello, libreoffice-4.3.2.2p0v0, installed from packages, coredumps when on saving the file. I observe this behaviour whether it is a manual save, or an autosave. Aside from this I can open and edit any file. The hardware and memory is definitely not an issue, as everything else works correctly and I've also tried to run LibreOffice alone, to eliminate the possibility is it the memory size issues. Does anybody else observe such behaviour? I ran into this today on amd64 as well, robert has reported it upstream: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85442
Re: lost+found disappeared
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:04:22AM +0100, frantisek holop wrote: Jan Stary, 30 Oct 2014 10:25: Ah, so you completely reinstalled? Then you have a fresh system where there are no lost+found directories. These are only created when fsck needs to reattach UNREF files. these are the last lines of fsck i can see: /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): UNREF FILE I=2182994 OWNER=f MODE=100600 /dev/sd0a: SIZE=12070 MTIME=Oct 29 23:35 2014 (CLEARED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): BLK(S) MISSING IN BIT MAPS (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): 375626 files, 5521342 used, 10992840 free (6488 frags, 1373294 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): MARKING FILE SYSTEM CLEAN $ ls / altroot/ boot bsd.rd dev/ etc/ mnt/ sbin/tmp/ var/ bin/ bsd bsd.sp emul/home/root/sys@ usr/ -f -- this message was brought to you by the Campaign to Save Humans. fsck_ffs only creates lost+found if it needs to link a lost file, but it does not do that in preen mode. Preen mode is used by the rc script. -Otto
Re: lost+found disappeared
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:59:14PM +0100, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:04:22AM +0100, frantisek holop wrote: Jan Stary, 30 Oct 2014 10:25: Ah, so you completely reinstalled? Then you have a fresh system where there are no lost+found directories. These are only created when fsck needs to reattach UNREF files. these are the last lines of fsck i can see: /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): UNREF FILE I=2182994 OWNER=f MODE=100600 /dev/sd0a: SIZE=12070 MTIME=Oct 29 23:35 2014 (CLEARED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): BLK(S) MISSING IN BIT MAPS (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): 375626 files, 5521342 used, 10992840 free (6488 frags, 1373294 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): MARKING FILE SYSTEM CLEAN $ ls / altroot/ boot bsd.rd dev/ etc/ mnt/ sbin/tmp/ var/ bin/ bsd bsd.sp emul/home/root/sys@ usr/ -f -- this message was brought to you by the Campaign to Save Humans. fsck_ffs only creates lost+found if it needs to link a lost file, but it does not do that in preen mode. Preen mode is used by the rc script. -Otto Oh and btw, I guess people mix up linux and bsd when thinking lost+found is created at fs creation time. Linux does that (at least for ext filesystems). BSD does not. -Otto
Re: lost+found disappeared
Otto Moerbeek, 30 Oct 2014 12:59: fsck_ffs only creates lost+found if it needs to link a lost file, but it does not do that in preen mode. Preen mode is used by the rc script. thank you for the explanation. from the man page it seemed that preen mode is identical to normal mode except 1) uses also /etc/fstab 2) forces -y on minor issues. but there are more differences then. -f -- to a cat, no! means not while i'm looking.
Re: enumerate sndio devices
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 08:40:30PM -0700, Rusty wrote: I feel as if i am overlooking somthing obvious, but.. Is there a way to list sndio endpoints? no, unfortunately one host can't have the list of usable audio devices (remember some are exposed on the network by other hosts). Specifically I was trying to attach a scope(probably one of the ffplay visualizations) to the main output. however I could not figure out what endpoints exist. You could create a monitoring sub-device, and make the scope program record from it (monitoring devices record what other programs play). Example, start sndiod as follows: sndiod_flags=-s default -m play,mon -s foo then configure your scope program to use snd/0.foo as audio device. Another option is to configure the scope to use default and to export AUDIODEVICE=snd/0.foo For more info, see description of the -m and -s options in sndiod(1), and the device naming scheme in sndio(7).
Re: enumerate sndio devices
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:22:29AM +0100, Jan Stary wrote: On Oct 29 20:40:30, rus...@outband.net wrote: I feel as if i am overlooking somthing obvious, but.. Is there a way to list sndio endpoints? sndiod recognizes real HW devices (-f) and exposes subdevices (-s) for the applications to use. What's an endpoint? Specifically I was trying to attach a scope(probably one of the ffplay visualizations) to the main output. Whatever attach a scope means - what exactly did you do? AFAIU, it's about a program to visualize the wave form of what other programs play.
Logging Password change attempts
I have been using a simple script # mypasswd.sh /usr/bin/passwd -l if [[ $? != 0 ]]; then /usr/bin/logger Unsuccessful attempt to change password else /usr/bin/logger Changed login password fi to get syslog entries whenever I change my password. I looked for a better way but could not find any solutions for this in the archives. Is there a better way to do this? Please let me know if possible. Thanks very much, Vijay Vijay Sankar, M.Eng., P.Eng. ForeTell Technologies Limited vsan...@foretell.ca - This message was sent using ForeTell-POST 4.9
Re: lost+found disappeared
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 01:18:13PM +0100, frantisek holop wrote: Otto Moerbeek, 30 Oct 2014 12:59: fsck_ffs only creates lost+found if it needs to link a lost file, but it does not do that in preen mode. Preen mode is used by the rc script. thank you for the explanation. from the man page it seemed that preen mode is identical to normal mode except 1) uses also /etc/fstab 2) forces -y on minor issues. Clearing an inode that isn't referenced by any directory is a minor thing. -Otto
Re: Logging Password change attempts
On October 30, 2014 1:26:25 PM CET, Vijay Sankar vsan...@foretell.ca wrote: I have been using a simple script # mypasswd.sh /usr/bin/passwd -l if [[ $? != 0 ]]; then /usr/bin/logger Unsuccessful attempt to change password else /usr/bin/logger Changed login password fi to get syslog entries whenever I change my password. I looked for a better way but could not find any solutions for this in the archives. Is there a better way to do this? Please let me know if possible. Unless there is any functionality you're missing, and scripting nits aside, this seems fine. Please elaborate on why you think it shouldn't be. /Alexander Thanks very much, Vijay Vijay Sankar, M.Eng., P.Eng. ForeTell Technologies Limited vsan...@foretell.ca - This message was sent using ForeTell-POST 4.9
Re: Logging Password change attempts
Quoting Alexander Hall alexan...@beard.se: On October 30, 2014 1:26:25 PM CET, Vijay Sankar vsan...@foretell.ca wrote: I have been using a simple script # mypasswd.sh /usr/bin/passwd -l if [[ $? != 0 ]]; then /usr/bin/logger Unsuccessful attempt to change password else /usr/bin/logger Changed login password fi to get syslog entries whenever I change my password. I looked for a better way but could not find any solutions for this in the archives. Is there a better way to do this? Please let me know if possible. Unless there is any functionality you're missing, and scripting nits aside, this seems fine. Please elaborate on why you think it shouldn't be. /Alexander Thanks very much, Vijay Thank you very much. The main thing I am not sure of is whether this is the right way to do this or if I am missing something obvious. The second problem I have is that when I change password, out of habit, I do a passwd instead of mypasswd. So I am using an alias in .profile and I am thinking that this is probably not good. I initially thought that auth.* in syslog.conf would log password change successes or failures but that did not work. So ended up with this script. Any scripting nits you have also will be very helpful! Vijay Vijay Sankar, M.Eng., P.Eng. ForeTell Technologies Limited vsan...@foretell.ca - This message was sent using ForeTell-POST 4.9
Re: enumerate sndio devices
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Alexandre Ratchov a...@caoua.org wrote: On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:22:29AM +0100, Jan Stary wrote: On Oct 29 20:40:30, rus...@outband.net wrote: I feel as if i am overlooking somthing obvious, but.. Is there a way to list sndio endpoints? sndiod recognizes real HW devices (-f) and exposes subdevices (-s) for the applications to use. What's an endpoint? Specifically I was trying to attach a scope(probably one of the ffplay visualizations) to the main output. Whatever attach a scope means - what exactly did you do? AFAIU, it's about a program to visualize the wave form of what other programs play. http://www.dim13.org/2013/06/Spectrogram Ciao! David -- If you try a few times and give up, you'll never get there. But if you keep at it... There's a lot of problems in the world which can really be solved by applying two or three times the persistence that other people will. -- Stewart Nelson
Re: enumerate sndio devices
In article 5451b32e.7060...@outband.net you wrote: I feel as if i am overlooking somthing obvious, but.. Is there a way to list sndio endpoints? Unless someone has a better idea, I think you need to look at your dmesg. Look for lines audioN at whatever. The audioN device should correspond to a (r)snd/N sndio device. AFAICT the rsnd/N devices are always accessible if a corresponding audioN device is available. The snd/N devices are made available by sndiod. If you have multiple audio devices I think it's necessary to specify them in /etc/rc.conf.local in order to make them available through sndiod. e.g. sndiod_flags=-f rsnd/0 -f rsnd/1 Specifically I was trying to attach a scope(probably one of the ffplay visualizations) to the main output. however I could not figure out what endpoints exist. I don't know if this is what you want, if I connect my USB camera I'm able to get a visualisation by tapping my finger on the camera while running: ffplay -f sndio snd/1
Re: Logging Password change attempts
The second problem I have is that when I change password, out of habit, I do a passwd instead of mypasswd. Why not call the script passwd and put it in the path ahead of the real one? What is the goal? Are there users on the system trying to brute force change a password? Or are you just tracking how often you change your own to comply with some policy? Tim.
Re: Logging Password change attempts
Quoting trondd tro...@gmail.com: The second problem I have is that when I change password, out of habit, I do a passwd instead of mypasswd. Why not call the script passwd and put it in the path ahead of the real one? What is the goal? Are there users on the system trying to brute force change a password? Or are you just tracking how often you change your own to comply with some policy? Tim. Ahh, did not think of renaming passwd and putting it in the path ahead of the real one! Thanks very much for that idea -- will try that as it will solve at least one thing. Vijay The goal is mainly to prevent Windows admins from saying that we cannot log and audit password change events on OpenBSD. I am very frustrated when I see it being used as an argument for not considering OpenBSD. Vijay Sankar, M.Eng., P.Eng. ForeTell Technologies Limited vsan...@foretell.ca - This message was sent using ForeTell-POST 4.9
Re: Logging Password change attempts
Also check passwd(5), master.passwd holds expiration and last change information (I don't have in enabled anywhere, so I am not sure what it looks like) that maybe you could generate a report from if you are enforcing password expiry that way. Tim.
Re: crypto softraid and keydisk on same harddrive
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 08:44:19PM +0100, Patrik Lundin wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 01:24:30AM +1100, Joel Sing wrote: You could try this (only compile tested) diff: I tried this diff on 5.5-stable and it appeared to solve my problem! The system now boots from sr0a without asking for a passphrase. Overwriting the keydisk partition makes the bootloader stop at the passphrase prompt. Based on http://xkcd.com/538/ I'd like to think of this concept as non-access on a need-to-forget basis. Of course it implies that the information you want to protect is worth being imprisoned/tortured/killed for.. Erling
Re: Remove print/acroread
In message http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=141460231808123w=1 I wrote [[various things that need fillable pdf forms of a sort that no native OpenBSD software seems to grok]] There's still a place in the computing world for Windoze machines. :( In message http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=141460283508319w=1 Alexandre Ratchov asked not sure to understand; you mean that you're using the acroread port on openbsd? and in message http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=141460396508823w=1 David Coppa further asked Indeed. I'm not questioning the usefulness of Adobe Acrobat Reader. I'm questioning the value of Acrobat Reader *7.0* running via compat_linux on OpenBSD/i386. Oops. I'm sorry, in hindsight my message was rather misleading. I have not tried the i386 compat_linux acroread port, and I didn't mean to imply anything about its usefulness or lack thereof. ciao, -- -- Jonathan Thornburg [remove -animal to reply] jth...@astro.indiana-zebra.edu Dept of Astronomy IUCSS, Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana, USA There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. -- George Orwell, 1984
Re: Logging Password change attempts
Quoting trondd tro...@gmail.com: Also check passwd(5), master.passwd holds expiration and last change information (I don't have in enabled anywhere, so I am not sure what it looks like) that maybe you could generate a report from if you are enforcing password expiry that way. Tim. Unfortunately that won't work because the objective is to just log any (successful or failed) attempts to change passwords. It does not matter that this is somewhat useless as far as real security is concerned. Vijay Vijay Sankar, M.Eng., P.Eng. ForeTell Technologies Limited vsan...@foretell.ca - This message was sent using ForeTell-POST 4.9
Re: Logging Password change attempts
Only other thing I could think of is monitoring the right file access or system calls or the like and logging that. But the script is probably the simplest and if anyone circumvents the script by calling passwd directly, it only means their password is newer than expected, which isn't as much of a concern.
Re: Logging Password change attempts
Take the original passwd command and rename it to passwd.orig and rename your script into its place (without the .sh ending) and have your script call passwd.orig. Still not perfect since someone who knows the difference can still call the orig directly. The alternative would be to dig into the source code of passwd itself, and submit a patch to do what you want to do.That would be the cleanest solution.
Re: Logging Password change attempts
A setuid wrapper around passwd would prevent normal (non-root, non-sudo) users from running passwd directly: -r-sr-xr-x 1 auditor bin 10240 Oct 30 11:47 passwd -r-x-- 1 auditor bin 28376 Oct 30 11:46 passwd.orig The only catch is it can't be a shell script, which adds another (trivial) layer of complexity to its maintenance. The (very small) danger with monitoring /etc/master.passwd is that a user could change his password more than once while your logging code is logging the change.
Re: Logging Password change attempts
On 10/30/14 13:56, Vijay Sankar wrote: Quoting Alexander Hall alexan...@beard.se: On October 30, 2014 1:26:25 PM CET, Vijay Sankar vsan...@foretell.ca wrote: I have been using a simple script # mypasswd.sh /usr/bin/passwd -l if [[ $? != 0 ]]; then /usr/bin/logger Unsuccessful attempt to change password else /usr/bin/logger Changed login password fi to get syslog entries whenever I change my password. I looked for a better way but could not find any solutions for this in the archives. Is there a better way to do this? Please let me know if possible. Unless there is any functionality you're missing, and scripting nits aside, this seems fine. Please elaborate on why you think it shouldn't be. /Alexander Thanks very much, Vijay Hi Vijay, your script didn't work for me with /bin/sh so I modified it, and changed the logger's to echos so that I don't pollute my logs. I have found a small race in your script and I'd like to address it with an expect script I wrote for you: #!/usr/local/bin/expect -- spawn ./vijays-mypasswd.sh expect Changing stty cooked expect Old?password: send \n send ^C stty raw expect -re ^Unsuccessful Also I have provided to you my version of vijays-mypasswd.sh #!/bin/sh trap 2 /usr/bin/passwd -l if [ $? -eq 0 ]; then echo Unsuccessful attempt to change password else echo Changed login password fi Notice the trap, hash it out to see what doesn't happen. Regards, -peter
Large number of netlivelocks
Hi. We noticed that in our firewall (an OpenBSD 5.5-stable amd64, demsg follows) there are a large number of network livelocks (kern.netlivelocks). We graphed them and noticed that they arrive even to 2000 per minute! They are related to the amount of traffic but not in a linear way. We'd like to know if this is expected and normal or we have to worry about them and find what's wrong. The PC is a firewall with a large number of queues and up to 500 Mbps of traffic. Thanks. Here is the dmesg. NMFW is GENERIC (no MP) and only change is HZ=1000 (for queues accuracy). OpenBSD 5.5-stable (NMFW) #1: Fri Aug 22 11:11:29 CEST 2014 giann...@legolas.neomedia.it:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/NMFW real mem = 8530317312 (8135MB) avail mem = 8294674432 (7910MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.7 @ 0xec0f0 (76 entries) bios0: vendor American Megatrends Inc. version 2.0 date 04/24/2014 bios0: Supermicro X10SLL-F acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: sleep states S0 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP APIC FPDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT MCFG HPET SSDT SSDT SPMI DMAR EINJ ERST HEST BERT acpi0: wakeup devices PEGP(S4) PEG0(S4) PEGP(S4) PEG1(S4) PEGP(S4) PEG2(S4) PXSX(S4) RP01(S4) PXSX(S4) RP02(S4) PXSX(S4) RP03(S4) PXSX(S4) RP05(S4) GLAN(S4) EHC1(S4) [...] acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1271 v3 @ 3.60GHz, 3600.16 MHz cpu0: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,LONG,LAHF,ABM,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,BMI1,HLE,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,RTM cpu0: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0 mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 10 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges cpu0: apic clock running at 100MHz cpu at mainbus0: not configured cpu at mainbus0: not configured cpu at mainbus0: not configured ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 8 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xf800, bus 0-63 acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (PEG0) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus -1 (PEG1) acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus -1 (PEG2) acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus 2 (RP01) acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus 4 (RP02) acpiec0 at acpi0: Failed to read resource settings acpicpu0 at acpi0: C1, PSS acpipwrres0 at acpi0: PG00, resource for PEG0 acpipwrres1 at acpi0: PG01, resource for PEG1 acpipwrres2 at acpi0: PG02, resource for PEG2 acpipwrres3 at acpi0: FN00, resource for FAN0 acpipwrres4 at acpi0: FN01, resource for FAN1 acpipwrres5 at acpi0: FN02, resource for FAN2 acpipwrres6 at acpi0: FN03, resource for FAN3 acpipwrres7 at acpi0: FN04, resource for FAN4 acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 105 degC acpitz1 at acpi0: critical temperature is 105 degC acpibat0 at acpi0: BAT0 not present acpibat1 at acpi0: BAT1 not present acpibat2 at acpi0: BAT2 not present acpibtn0 at acpi0: SLPB acpibtn1 at acpi0: PWRB acpibtn2 at acpi0: LID0 acpivideo0 at acpi0: GFX0 acpivout0 at acpivideo0: DD1F ipmi at mainbus0 not configured cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 3600 MHz: speeds: 3601, 3600, 3400, 3200, 3000, 2800, 2600, 2400, 2200, 2000, 1800, 1600, 1400, 1200, 1000, 800 MHz pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0 pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3 Host rev 0x06 ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 Intel Core 4G PCIE rev 0x06: msi pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 em0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 Intel 82571EB rev 0x06: apic 8 int 16, address 00:26:55:d0:32:42 em1 at pci1 dev 0 function 1 Intel 82571EB rev 0x06: apic 8 int 17, address 00:26:55:d0:32:43 Intel 8 Series xHCI rev 0x05 at pci0 dev 20 function 0 not configured em2 at pci0 dev 25 function 0 Intel I217-LM rev 0x05: msi, address 00:25:90:46:61:b5 ehci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 0 Intel 8 Series USB rev 0x05: apic 8 int 16 usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub0 at usb0 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 8 Series PCIE rev 0xd5: msi pci2 at ppb1 bus 2 ppb2 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 ASPEED Technology AST1150 PCI rev 0x03 pci3 at ppb2 bus 3 vga1 at pci3 dev 0 function 0 ASPEED Technology AST2000 rev 0x30 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation) ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 8 Series PCIE rev 0xd5: msi pci4 at ppb3 bus 4 em3 at pci4 dev 0 function 0 Intel I210 rev 0x03: msi, address 00:25:90:46:61:b4 ehci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 8 Series USB rev 0x05: apic 8 int 23 usb1 at ehci1: USB revision 2.0 uhub1 at usb1 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 pcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 Intel C222 LPC rev 0x05 ahci0 at pci0 dev 31 function 2 Intel 8 Series AHCI rev 0x05: msi, AHCI 1.3 scsibus0 at ahci0: 32 targets sd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: ATA, ST500DM002-1BD14, KC45 SCSI3 0/direct fixed
Re: 5.6 arrived
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014, at 10:32 AM, Richard Toohey wrote: On 10/30/14 07:26, Zé Loff wrote: Sighted on my mailbox today, in Lisbon, Portugal. Arrived today in Tauranga, New Zealand. Arrived today in the other half of New Zealand (Chistchurch). -- Carlin
Re: Logging Password change attempts
On 10/30/14 17:19, Peter J. Philipp wrote: I think I found something and Vijay found it but is being modest. Let me show you: your script didn't work for me with /bin/sh so I modified it, and changed the logger's to echos so that I don't pollute my logs. I have found a small race in your script and I'd like to address it with an expect script I wrote for you: #!/usr/local/bin/expect -- spawn ./vijays-mypasswd.sh expect Changing stty cooked expect Old?password: send \n send ^C This by the way is a control-v control-c pasting won't help. stty raw expect -re ^Unsuccessful Also I have provided to you my version of vijays-mypasswd.sh #!/bin/sh trap 2 /usr/bin/passwd -l if [ $? -eq 0 ]; then This error code is wrong, it should be -ne (not equal) 0. However passwd -l does give different answers in its return code let me explain: mercury$ passwd -l Changing local password for pjp. Old password: --- entered just a return Password unchanged. mercury$ echo $? 0 Vijay's script here would have said Changed login password, but master.passwd was likely not updated. mercury$ passwd -l Changing local password for pjp. Old password: - entered test for testing purposes passwd: Permission denied passwd: /etc/master.passwd: unchanged mercury$ echo $? 1 Vijay's script here would have said Unsuccessful attempt to change password. mercury$ passwd -l Changing local password for pjp. Old password:-- entered correct password New password:-- entered just a return Password unchanged. mercury$ echo $? 0 Vijay's script here would have said Changed login password but master.passwd was not changed. That leaves one remaining possibility and it should return 0, it's changing the password: mercury$ passwd -l Changing local password for pjp. Old password: New password: Please enter a longer password. New password: Please use a more complicated password. Please use a different password. Unusual capitalization, control characters, or digits are suggested. New password: Retype new password: mercury$ echo $? 0 Vijays script would have said Changed login password. echo Unsuccessful attempt to change password else echo Changed login password fi Notice the trap, hash it out to see what doesn't happen. Regards, -peter So in conclusion Vijay would have wrong logs and he'd be wondering why someone changed their password but the password file stamp was not updated. I'll leave the debate to someone else on what is correct in the code :-). Cheers, -peter
troublesome threesome: home network woes
i have network problem i am trying to solve but i am stuck. any ideas to track this down are welcome. my home network (wifi, dhcp): router (D-link DI-524): 10.10.10.1 openbsd (current) notebook: 10.10.10.60 linux mint (r17) notebook: 10.10.10.33 the problem: connecting from openbsd to linux is very unreliable. pf is disabled. openbsd - router, perfect: 64 bytes from 10.10.10.1: icmp_seq=5444 ttl=64 time=1.344 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.1: icmp_seq=5445 ttl=64 time=1.327 ms load: 1.31 cmd: ping 23507 [running] 0.17u 0.17s 0% 97k 5446 packets transmitted, 5446 packets received, 52 duplicates, 0.0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 1.120/3.009/352.791/5.335 ms openbsd - 8.8.8.8, perfect: 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=750 ttl=48 time=13.160 ms 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=751 ttl=48 time=13.913 ms load: 1.10 cmd: ping 29382 [runnable] 0.02u 0.11s 0% 73k 752 packets transmitted, 752 packets received, 8 duplicates, 0.0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 11.604/15.112/174.934/7.288 ms linux - openbsd, perfect: 64 bytes from gw (10.10.10.1): icmp_seq=5813 ttl=64 time=1.42 ms 64 bytes from gw (10.10.10.1): icmp_seq=5814 ttl=64 time=1.51 ms --- gw ping statistics --- 5814 packets transmitted, 5813 received, 0% packet loss, time 5821699ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 1.178/10.962/1008.744/60.079 ms, pipe 2 openbsd - linux, abysmal: 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=285 ttl=64 time=1.992 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=286 ttl=64 time=2.245 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=287 ttl=64 time=219.239 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=288 ttl=64 time=232.502 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=318 ttl=64 time=1065.398 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=319 ttl=64 time=55.879 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=320 ttl=64 time=2.062 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=321 ttl=64 time=490.335 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=322 ttl=64 time=504.393 ms load: 1.14 cmd: ping 9855 [running] 0.00u 0.01s 0% 93k 323 packets transmitted, 169 packets received, 1 duplicates, 47.7% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 1.992/292.443/2008.553/444.272 ms if i ssh to linux, i get dropped very soon. ssh-ing from linux to openbsd works as expected. am i missing something? -f -- one family builds a wall, two families enjoy it.
Re: lost+found disappeared
On Oct 30 11:04:22, min...@obiit.org wrote: Jan Stary, 30 Oct 2014 10:25: Ah, so you completely reinstalled? Then you have a fresh system where there are no lost+found directories. These are only created when fsck needs to reattach UNREF files. these are the last lines of fsck i can see: /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): UNREF FILE I=2182994 OWNER=f MODE=100600 /dev/sd0a: SIZE=12070 MTIME=Oct 29 23:35 2014 (CLEARED) ^^^ /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): FREE BLK COUNT(S) WRONG IN SUPERBLK (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): BLK(S) MISSING IN BIT MAPS (SALVAGED) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): 375626 files, 5521342 used, 10992840 free (6488 frags, 1373294 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation) /dev/sd0a (65714a12cd3919f3.a): MARKING FILE SYSTEM CLEAN $ ls / altroot/ boot bsd.rd dev/ etc/ mnt/ sbin/tmp/ var/ bin/ bsd bsd.sp emul/home/root/sys@ usr/ -f -- this message was brought to you by the Campaign to Save Humans.
Re: Logging Password change attempts
On Oct 30 10:39:29, tro...@gmail.com wrote: Also check passwd(5), master.passwd holds expiration and last change information No, that's something else: The change field is the number in seconds, GMT, from the Epoch, until the password for the account must be changed. This field may be left empty to turn off the password aging feature. The expire field is the number in seconds, GMT, from the Epoch, until the account expires. This field may be left empty to turn off the account aging feature.
Re: troublesome threesome: home network woes (yes, it is a router issue)
frantisek holop, 30 Oct 2014 20:31: i have network problem i am trying to solve but i am stuck. any ideas to track this down are welcome. i fished out some cables et voila, when both notebooks are connected as god meant it, the router is happy: ethernet openbsd - ethernet linux: 64 bytes from 10.10.10.144: icmp_seq=932 ttl=64 time=0.611 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.144: icmp_seq=933 ttl=64 time=0.495 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.144: icmp_seq=934 ttl=64 time=0.403 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.144: icmp_seq=935 ttl=64 time=0.808 ms load: 1.38 cmd: ping 8765 [running] 0.00u 0.01s 0% 73k 936 packets transmitted, 936 packets received, 0.0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 0.393/0.689/5.801/0.247 ms ethernet linux - ethernet openbsd: 64 bytes from 10.10.10.74: icmp_seq=1045 ttl=255 time=0.854 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.74: icmp_seq=1046 ttl=255 time=0.781 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.74: icmp_seq=1047 ttl=255 time=0.718 ms ^C --- 10.10.10.74 ping statistics --- 1047 packets transmitted, 1047 received, 0% packet loss, time 1045998ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.363/0.653/26.694/0.818 ms however: ethernet openbsd - wifi linux: 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=67 ttl=64 time=202.044 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=68 ttl=64 time=114.513 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=69 ttl=64 time=147.893 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=74 ttl=64 time=1330.733 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=75 ttl=64 time=320.779 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=76 ttl=64 time=226.164 ms load: 1.12 cmd: ping 30571 [running] 0.00u 0.00s 0% 95k 77 packets transmitted, 69 packets received, 10.4% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 1.610/212.516/1788.324/344.446 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.33: icmp_seq=77 ttl=64 time=136.124 ms we are back where we were. and last but not least: wifi openbsd - ethernet linux: 64 bytes from 10.10.10.144: icmp_seq=87 ttl=64 time=1.525 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.144: icmp_seq=88 ttl=64 time=2.532 ms 64 bytes from 10.10.10.144: icmp_seq=89 ttl=64 time=1.536 ms load: 1.13 cmd: ping 19554 [running] 0.00u 0.00s 0% 75k 90 packets transmitted, 90 packets received, 0.0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 1.337/2.926/31.723/4.308 ms who would have thought? quite a surprise. any suggestions for a good home router? the only advanced feature i use is static dhcp entries. -f -- to learn more about paranoids, follow them around!
Re: 5.6 arrived
5.6 CD's arrived today in Greenville, South Carolina! On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Carlin Bingham c...@viennan.net wrote: On Thu, 30 Oct 2014, at 10:32 AM, Richard Toohey wrote: On 10/30/14 07:26, Zé Loff wrote: Sighted on my mailbox today, in Lisbon, Portugal. Arrived today in Tauranga, New Zealand. Arrived today in the other half of New Zealand (Chistchurch). -- Carlin
Re: Remove print/acroread
On 10/29/2014 11:22 AM, Артур Истомин wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 04:25:02PM +0100, Marc Espie wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 04:11:47PM +0100, Alexandre Ratchov wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 08:30:32AM -0600, David Coppa wrote: So here I am, asking on misc@... Do people using acroread-7.0.9 on i386 (compat_linux) still exist these days? I'd like to rm print/acroread from cvs. I don't see the point of keeping it, while we have other working pdf readers. I don't even understand why we have it at all. OK to remove it. You don't use pdf form filling. Over the last few years, I've seen people want to do strange things with pdf. Most things related to display work with default tools. afaik, password did not work with anything BUT acrobat reader AND now mutools. Form filling, in some cases (german taxes, iirr) does NOT work with other tools... Many consulates/embassy send pdf files with forms for information on visas acquisition. When I last time filled it, no one open source pdf reader can fill such forms. More than one Opensource PDF reader allows you to fill out the forms. (evince for example) The problem is you can't save the forms and retain filled in data. However it is a simple matter to print them to a pdf file (pdf-writer). Some forms have elaborate computation built in via scripts, and those won't work but the simple forms will.
