Re: Future of X.org?
li...@wrant.com writes: > You're misreading something, or talking to yourself, making corrections. > Your emails ended up in the spam twice so far, do something about that.. Two dots again? We've been over this. > Your emails came in as spam twice so far, maybe do something about that? Get it together. It's just counting. Also I don't need to fix your email system's inability to classify spam. Matthew
Re: Future of X.org?
I just love reading the drama that's always on this list. I've been using OpenBSD since 2.0 and the decisions of the team never failed me even when gobbles did his thing. If X11 wasn't secure enough for OpenBSD then Theo and his crew would write OpenX. They've fixed NetBSD, SSH, and generally available encryption. and I'm sure he'll tell me I'm wrong about this message. I love him for it. Xenocara does everything I need it to. Why mess with a good thing. The OP just asked, "Relevant to OpenBSD?" The answer is not really.
Re: Future of X.org?
I will reply you to clarify some things but I agree with Ingo and we should let the thread die. On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 07:11:37PM +, Roderick wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Jul 2019, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote: > > > Can you show me what missing Wayland part is bigger than DRM+Mesa+LLVM?. > > What do you want to say with the question? He was quoting "The missing parts are not so big but nobody is working on that". That's the context. You're right. DRM and Mesa are not part of X11. Long time ago the Linux kernel developers moved part of the graphical drivers out of Xorg. At that time, the Xorg drivers (userland) had direct access to the kernel *and the hardware*. From a security point of view, the hole was quite big. That part of the project was named DRM. KMS is the kernel framebuffer and uses DRM. Now, after of a lot of work and pain (by jsg@ and kettenis@), we have both the DRM drivers and the framebuffer. Mesa was only used for 3D but now some drivers (iirc AMD) require it for 2D. Also, Mesa requires LLVM. Xenocara is now running (except for some old drivers) on top of that. The hardest part of the problem is solved. If someone thinks that the code is small, please check how much code was imported for that. Now, the missing parts. As Leonid mentioned, we need something to handle the input events in the kernel. There is probably something small (compared to the other parts) missing in Mesa. And add some flavors/new ports to the ports tree (not a big problem). So, the big bloat is running now on your OpenBSD system because we needed that to make the recent graphics cards to work with Xorg. Nobody can avoid that. Also, thanks to that work, now systems with AMD or Intel graphics cards are more secure. Even if someday we have wayland in ports/base, both will convive for a long time. If you have a use case for X11/Xorg not covered by Wayland, start to testing your systems now with some Linux distro which includes a good Wayland support (probably Arch Linux is the cleanest distro for this) and report what you need to upstream. That will help more to OpenBSD (and you) that writing a never ending number of emails to a random thread. This last part is not about you Rodrigo, I'm talking to everyone who is complaining about the Xorg future. Cheers. > > As far as I understand, neither DRM nor Mesa are parts of (original) > X11. Further, you read in Wikipedia: > > - > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Rendering_Manager > > DRM was first developed as the kernel space component of the X Server's > Direct Rendering Infrastructure,[1] but since then it has been used by other > graphic stack alternatives such as Wayland. > -- > > And > > -- > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_(computer_graphics) > > Besides 3D applications such as games, modern display servers (X.org's > Glamor or Wayland's Weston) use OpenGL/EGL; therefore all graphics typically > go through Mesa. > --- > > In the german Wikipedia you read: > > > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGL_(Programmierschnittstelle) > > Mesa 3D – ist zurzeit die einzige freie Implementierung von EGL (und > etlichen weiteren graphic rendering APIs) > - > > Namely, the only free implementation of EGL is Mesa 3D. And EGL is > needed by Wayland. > > For all these cool desktop (or freedesktop) things, like turbo accelerated > 3 or 4D rendering, the bloat will be necessary, be it in X11, Wayland > or also plan9 rio if it is once ported to OpenBSD (that would be by > the way a good idea). > > Rodrigo -- Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
Re: Future of X.org?
Mon, 1 Jul 2019 12:52:56 -0700 Michael Forney > On 2019-07-01, Roderick wrote: > > Namely, the only free implementation of EGL is Mesa 3D. And EGL is > > needed by Wayland. > > I'm not an OpenBSD user, just an interested bystander, but I want to > point out that the second part of this statement is false. Wayland > also supports shared memory buffers. In fact, I'm writing this message > from a Wayland desktop that has no GL whatsoever. > Michael, since you are not an OpenBSD user.. please, tell us more about this software that is not part of, and does not (yet) run on our OpenBSD systems. You can't really get us more interested in our graphics stack. But please, use reddit to tell us more since we're not reading it there.
Re: Future of X.org?
On 2019-07-01, Roderick wrote: > Namely, the only free implementation of EGL is Mesa 3D. And EGL is > needed by Wayland. I'm not an OpenBSD user, just an interested bystander, but I want to point out that the second part of this statement is false. Wayland also supports shared memory buffers. In fact, I'm writing this message from a Wayland desktop that has no GL whatsoever.
Re: Future of X.org?
Mon, 01 Jul 2019 20:52:24 +0300 cho...@jtan.com > li...@wrant.com writes: > > Mon, 01 Jul 2019 07:09:41 +0300 cho...@jtan.com > > > > > > I don't think I'll be relying on software from such confused individuals > > > any time soo > > n. > > > > Since when? Make a note: your long lines will never fit on a punch card. > > I haven't used a punch card since ... well ever. I have my limits but they're > not 72. > > Matthew You're misreading something, or talking to yourself, making corrections. Your emails ended up in the spam twice so far, do something about that.. > ps. Yes, I did that on purpose. > You're not doing anything.
Re: L2TP/IPSec PSK with Android -- INVALID_ID_INFORMATION
Wow, thanks for this... For some reason I always thought that anything VPN related would require a rooted Android phone to mess with interfaces and routing, but clearly it doesn't. It took about 10 minutes to read https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq17.html and configure a successful IKEv2 connection from strongSwan on the phone to the router. One more thing, how do I know what IP address my client has gotten? `ipsecctl(8) -vsa` doesn't show that, and iked(8) output in /var/log/daemon doesn't either. Right now I'm pinging my router from my phone and tcpdump-ing the enc0 interface for icmp packets :) Dani ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, 1 July 2019 19:34, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2019-06-30, Lévai Dániel l...@ecentrum.hu wrote: > > > I know (saw) this has come up numerous times, and someone has been > > successful, others weren't. I thought I'd try this out myself, and not > > surprisingly it wasn't successful :) > > I've been using these howtos [1] -- I know these can be outdated and/or > > simply wrong, I just wanted to get the general idea on how to tackle this. > > I've made it through a couple of hurdles but now I'm stuck and thought I'd > > ask some questions here. > > L2TP+IPsec can be made to work, but to be perfectly honest, unless you > have a special reason (e.g. need to run this on a box which is also > doing other tunnels which have to be IKEv1), then I would switch to > IKEv2/iked and strongswan on Android (or the built-in client on Windows > or iOS), it is fast to connect and generally much more pleasant to use... > > (I still use IKEv1/isakmpd for lan-to-lan tunnels but now try to avoid > it for standard "roaming client" type connections). publickey - leva@ecentrum.hu - 0x66E1F716.asc Description: application/pgp-keys
Re: Future of X.org?
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote: Can you show me what missing Wayland part is bigger than DRM+Mesa+LLVM?. What do you want to say with the question? As far as I understand, neither DRM nor Mesa are parts of (original) X11. Further, you read in Wikipedia: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Rendering_Manager DRM was first developed as the kernel space component of the X Server's Direct Rendering Infrastructure,[1] but since then it has been used by other graphic stack alternatives such as Wayland. -- And -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_(computer_graphics) Besides 3D applications such as games, modern display servers (X.org's Glamor or Wayland's Weston) use OpenGL/EGL; therefore all graphics typically go through Mesa. --- In the german Wikipedia you read: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGL_(Programmierschnittstelle) Mesa 3D – ist zurzeit die einzige freie Implementierung von EGL (und etlichen weiteren graphic rendering APIs) - Namely, the only free implementation of EGL is Mesa 3D. And EGL is needed by Wayland. For all these cool desktop (or freedesktop) things, like turbo accelerated 3 or 4D rendering, the bloat will be necessary, be it in X11, Wayland or also plan9 rio if it is once ported to OpenBSD (that would be by the way a good idea). Rodrigo
Re: Future of X.org?
li...@wrant.com writes: > Mon, 01 Jul 2019 07:09:41 +0300 cho...@jtan.com > > > > I don't think I'll be relying on software from such confused individuals > > any time soo > n. > > Since when? Make a note: your long lines will never fit on a punch card. I haven't used a punch card since ... well ever. I have my limits but they're not 72. Matthew ps. Yes, I did that on purpose.
Re: Future of X.org?
Ingo Schwarze writes: > the voice of reason. Listen to it. Matthew
Re: Future of X.org?
Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote: > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 06:39:01PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 17:13:44 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 05:20:20PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > > > > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:46:33 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 09:09:08PM +, Roderick wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2019, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, you misunderstood the text. > > > > > > > > > > > > No. It is *you* that do not understand what X11 is and want it > > > > > > death. > > > > > > A very destructive attitude. > > > > > > > > > > You're the only one with a destructive attitude here. I'm trying to > > > > > help > > > > > you because usually people doesn't understand how wayland works. > > > > > > > > You can't do without YOU understanding basics of X11, do something > > > > else.. > > > > Juan, I don't trust your lack of any qualification for even feature > > > > bait. > > > > > > Show me where I am wrong. Enlighten us with your qualification No Name. > > > > > > > Here you go wrong on all points.. Next time, bring 100% more experience. > > > > Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:45:14 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > > > > The missing parts are not so big but nobody is working on that. > > > > > > I dont' know why people are so sad. X11 should have died long time ago. > > > > > > > This is not exactly inspirational, neither convincing. Try again later.. > > Juan, I still can not find one single piece of text where you were right. > > Can you show me what missing Wayland part is bigger than DRM+Mesa+LLVM?. I used Wayland on Debian for few weeks. One day all of a sudden screen rotated on my laptop and I couldn't find any way to fix it. I think Wayland is far from beeing stable.
Re: Future of X.org?
Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado writes: > Can you show me what missing Wayland part is bigger than DRM+Mesa+LLVM?. Probably, but that's not my problem. > After the personal attack, I was hoping a more elaborated answer. There was no personal attack. That you feel there was reveals little more than the fragile state of your ego. Wayland adds little or nothing of value while changing everything. The Wayland crowd have the bigger point to prove. The onus is on them to prove that there's a problem, not on the people who have been working successfully for 3 decades to prove that there isn't. Matthew
Re: L2TP/IPSec PSK with Android -- INVALID_ID_INFORMATION
On 2019-06-30, Lévai Dániel wrote: > I know (saw) this has come up numerous times, and someone has been > successful, others weren't. I thought I'd try this out myself, and not > surprisingly it wasn't successful :) > I've been using these howtos [1] -- I know these can be outdated and/or > simply wrong, I just wanted to get the general idea on how to tackle this. > I've made it through a couple of hurdles but now I'm stuck and thought I'd > ask some questions here. L2TP+IPsec can be made to work, but to be perfectly honest, unless you have a special reason (e.g. need to run this on a box which is also doing other tunnels which *have* to be IKEv1), then I would switch to IKEv2/iked and strongswan on Android (or the built-in client on Windows or iOS), it is fast to connect and generally much more pleasant to use... (I still use IKEv1/isakmpd for lan-to-lan tunnels but now try to avoid it for standard "roaming client" type connections).
Re: Future of X.org?
Hi Leonid, Leonid Bobrov wrote on Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 07:41:41PM +0300: > No, you three (...) are wrong, I doesn't matter who is wrong, please stop discussing that. What matters is that code gets written, tested, improved, and eventually committed that improves the situation. > protecting a bloat called X. Well, i did happen to do some minor work on Xenocara lately, even if it was only related to documentation. The reason we maintain Xenocara is not that everybody loves it so much. There is indeed consensus that it suffers from considerable design flaws. The reason we maintain it is that, if you want to make something better, the better solution must be fully implemented, tested, and committed before the old system can be removed. I have no idea which steps exactly are involved in that, and whether and how it is feasible, but it is blatantly obvious we are very far from the point where deleting Xenocara could possibly be considered. Either way, i'm very thankful for matthieu@, jsg@, and others maintaining Xenocara and the related kernel parts *because they manage to keep that stuff surprisingly reliable and functional* given how complicated it all is. > The only thing we miss for Wayland in base is libxml and it's not > as bloated as shit called DRM, Mesa and X.org, so it's perfectly > acceptable, Frankly, there is not much point in non-developers discussing whether additions to base are acceptable. Feel free to suggest specific patches for base, but when developers voice doubts, save yourself a lot of trouble and organize your work as a port instead. It is *much, much* easier to get something into ports, and to get it tested there, than to get something into base. Getting something into base is often a challenging task even for an experienced developer. Also, getting something into base is easier when a long-standing, well-tested port already exists. > Juan, if you help me Wait a second, juanfra@ is a prolific porter who is already contributing a lot to OpenBSD. Like every developer, he is free to choose what he wants to work on. > with wscons then we can have working Wayland > compositors running outside of X session in 2019 at OpenBSD. You might have a point that ws*(4) and ws*(9) documentation could possibly be improved - i'm not completely sure, but i dimly remember running into problems trying to use features of these systems in the past. Consider reading the ws* code and figuring out what exactly it does, then sending patches to improve the documentation. That is how documentation gets better: people reading the code, understanding, and describing it. And everybody, please stop sending messages if you have nothing new to say that is of substance. The usefulness of this thread has somewhat lessened of late. Yours, Ingo
Re: Future of X.org?
On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 07:25:21PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 17:56:18 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 06:39:01PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > > > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 17:13:44 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 05:20:20PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > > > > > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:46:33 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 09:09:08PM +, Roderick wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. It is *you* that do not understand what X11 is and want it > > > > > > > death. > > > > > > > A very destructive attitude. > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the only one with a destructive attitude here. I'm trying to > > > > > > help > > > > > > you because usually people doesn't understand how wayland works. > > > > > > > > > > You can't do without YOU understanding basics of X11, do something > > > > > else.. > > > > > Juan, I don't trust your lack of any qualification for even feature > > > > > bait. > > > > > > > > Show me where I am wrong. Enlighten us with your qualification No Name. > > > > > > > > > > Here you go wrong on all points.. Next time, bring 100% more experience. > > > > > > Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:45:14 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > > > > > > > The missing parts are not so big but nobody is working on that. > > > > > > > > I dont' know why people are so sad. X11 should have died long time ago. > > > > > > > > > > This is not exactly inspirational, neither convincing. Try again later.. > > > Juan, I still can not find one single piece of text where you were right. > > > > > > > Can you show me what missing Wayland part is bigger than DRM+Mesa+LLVM?. > > > > After the personal attack, I was hoping a more elaborated answer. > > > > All messages sent to you only through the list in public.. > > You can not see it: you are wrong. Now, cover your ears. > No, you three (gwes, Roderick and "lists") are wrong, I see assholes protecting a bloat called X. The only thing we miss for Wayland in base is libxml and it's not as bloated as shit called DRM, Mesa and X.org, so it's perfectly acceptable, but the masturbating monkey like you doesn't want security, you want a slow, insecure and bloated shit called X. Juan, if you help me with wscons then we can have working Wayland compositors running outside of X session in 2019 at OpenBSD.
Re: 6.5 pkg_add "Fatal error: Can't write session into tmp directory"
On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 01:18:15PM -0700, Jonathan Thornburg wrote: > I have 6.5/i386 installed on a PC Engines alix board (hostname 'sodium'), > acting as a home firewall and router. I'd like to install some packages > the firewall it to make system adminstration easier. So... I downloaded > the appropriate 6./i386 packages from a nearby OpenBSD mirror, ssh-ed them > to /tmp on the firewall, and then (logged into the firewall as root) tried > to pkg_add them. Alas, pkg_add failed with an error message about being > unable to write into a temp directory: > > sodium# pkg_add -vv tcsh-6.20.00p1-static.tgz > Fatal error: Can't write session into tmp directory >at /usr/libdata/perl5/OpenBSD/PackageRepository.pm line 1025. > sodium# > > I've checked that the firewall has adequate free memory & swap space, > that all the obviously-relevant filesystems are mounted read-write and > have free inodes and disk space, and that 'touch foo' can create a new > file in each of /tmp, /var/tmp, and /usr/tmp. > > Is there something obvious I'm overlooked here? A Fine Man Page I should > be rereading before I start hacking debug prints into the pkg_add (perl) > source code? > > Further information (cut-and-pasted from ssh session on the firewall): > > sodium# uname -a > OpenBSD sodium.bkis-orchard.net 6.5 GENERIC#1 i386 > sodium# df -hi > Filesystem SizeUsed Avail Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted > on > /dev/wd0a 378M 47.7M311M13%1771 47379 4% / > mfs:54350 62.9M2.0M 57.7M 3% 88182 0% /tmp > /dev/wd0e 677M 15.1M628M 2% 352 87710 0% /var > /dev/wd0f 1.5G698M734M49% 16248 191622 8% /usr > mfs:42325 62.9M2.0K 59.7M 0% 18189 0% /usr/tmp Am I reading the numbers correctly that /tmp and /usr/tmp are two different memory file systems of maximum size 62.9M? If so, I wonder what pkg_add is trying to write into /tmp, it migh be way more than just some metadata... / Raimo Niskanen > /dev/wd0g 516M138M352M28%8980 5860213% > /usr/X11R6 > /dev/wd0h 1.7G218K1.6G 0% 110 233744 0% > /usr/local > /dev/wd0j 5.1G2.0K4.8G 0% 1 701565 0% /usr/obj > /dev/wd0i 1.3G2.0K1.3G 0% 1 181885 0% /usr/src > sodium# cat /etc/fstab > 5fd63b50b0c6cb1d.a /ffs rw,softdep,noatime 1 1 > 5fd63b50b0c6cb1d.d /tmp mfs rw,async,nodev,nosuid,-s=64m0 0 > 5fd63b50b0c6cb1d.e /var ffs rw,softdep,noatime,nodev,nosuid 1 2 > 5fd63b50b0c6cb1d.f /usr ffs rw,softdep,noatime,nodev1 2 > 5fd63b50b0c6cb1d.d /usr/tmp mfs rw,async,nodev,nosuid,-s=64m0 0 > 5fd63b50b0c6cb1d.g /usr/X11R6 ffs rw,softdep,noatime,nodev1 2 > 5fd63b50b0c6cb1d.h /usr/local ffs rw,softdep,noatime,wxallowed,nodev 1 2 > 5fd63b50b0c6cb1d.j /usr/obj ffs rw,softdep,noatime,nodev,nosuid 1 2 > 5fd63b50b0c6cb1d.i /usr/src ffs rw,softdep,noatime,nodev,nosuid 1 2 > sodium# top|head > load averages: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01sodium.bkis-orchard.net 13:12:00 > 52 processes: 1 running, 50 idle, 1 on processor up 14 days, 5:21 > CPU: 0.1% user, 0.0% nice, 0.3% sys, 0.0% spin, 0.3% intr, 99.3% idle > Memory: Real: 35M/110M act/tot Free: 127M Cache: 46M Swap: 0K/548M > > PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE WAIT TIMECPU COMMAND > 59735 root 1000K 19M sleep bored44:53 0.44% softnet > 65312 root -2200K 19M sleep - 339.9H 0.00% idle0 > 57981 root 1000K 19M sleep bored 7:56 0.00% sensors > 39371 _unbound 20 12M 10M sleep kqread1:33 0.00% unbound > sodium# cd /tmp > sodium# ls -l > total 4144 > drwxrwxrwt 2 root wheel 512 Jun 16 07:51 .ICE-unix > drwxrwxrwt 2 root wheel 512 Jun 16 07:51 .X11-unix > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 1499861 Jun 30 12:31 lynx-2.8.9rel1.tgz > drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Jun 16 07:51 sndio > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 564428 Jun 30 12:31 tcsh-6.20.00p1-static.tgz > drwxrwxrwt 2 root wheel 512 Jun 30 12:33 vi.recover > sodium# > sodium# pkg_info > sodium# > sodium# which pkg_add > /usr/sbin/pkg_add > sodium# pkg_add -vv tcsh-6.20.00p1-static.tgz > Fatal error: Can't write session into tmp directory >at /usr/libdata/perl5/OpenBSD/PackageRepository.pm line 1025. > sodium# env > _=/usr/bin/env > LOGNAME=root > PWD=/tmp > HOME=/root > OLDPWD=/tmp > SSH_TTY=/dev/ttyp0 > TOP=-S -i -s1 > MAIL=/var/mail/root > SSH_CLIENT=192.168.105.0 4099 22 > > PATH=/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin > TERM=xterm > SHELL=/bin/ksh > SSH_CONNECTION=192.168.105.0 4099 192.168.105.62 22 > USER=root > sodi
Re: Future of X.org?
On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 05:20:20PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:46:33 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 09:09:08PM +, Roderick wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2019, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote: > > > > > > > Nope, you misunderstood the text. > > > > > > No. It is *you* that do not understand what X11 is and want it death. > > > A very destructive attitude. > > > > You're the only one with a destructive attitude here. I'm trying to help > > you because usually people doesn't understand how wayland works. > > You can't do without YOU understanding basics of X11, do something else.. > Juan, I don't trust your lack of any qualification for even feature bait. Show me where I am wrong. Enlighten us with your qualification No Name. -- Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
Re: Future of X.org?
Mon, 1 Jul 2019 17:56:18 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 06:39:01PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 17:13:44 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 05:20:20PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > > > > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:46:33 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 09:09:08PM +, Roderick wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > No. It is *you* that do not understand what X11 is and want it > > > > > > death. > > > > > > A very destructive attitude. > > > > > > > > > > You're the only one with a destructive attitude here. I'm trying to > > > > > help > > > > > you because usually people doesn't understand how wayland works. > > > > > > > > You can't do without YOU understanding basics of X11, do something > > > > else.. > > > > Juan, I don't trust your lack of any qualification for even feature > > > > bait. > > > > > > Show me where I am wrong. Enlighten us with your qualification No Name. > > > > > > > Here you go wrong on all points.. Next time, bring 100% more experience. > > > > Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:45:14 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > > > > The missing parts are not so big but nobody is working on that. > > > > > > I dont' know why people are so sad. X11 should have died long time ago. > > > > > > > This is not exactly inspirational, neither convincing. Try again later.. > > Juan, I still can not find one single piece of text where you were right. > > Can you show me what missing Wayland part is bigger than DRM+Mesa+LLVM?. > > After the personal attack, I was hoping a more elaborated answer. > All messages sent to you only through the list in public.. You can not see it: you are wrong. Now, cover your ears.
Re: Future of X.org?
On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 06:39:01PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 17:13:44 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 05:20:20PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > > > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:46:33 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 09:09:08PM +, Roderick wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2019, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, you misunderstood the text. > > > > > > > > > > No. It is *you* that do not understand what X11 is and want it death. > > > > > A very destructive attitude. > > > > > > > > You're the only one with a destructive attitude here. I'm trying to help > > > > you because usually people doesn't understand how wayland works. > > > > > > You can't do without YOU understanding basics of X11, do something else.. > > > Juan, I don't trust your lack of any qualification for even feature bait. > > > > > > > Show me where I am wrong. Enlighten us with your qualification No Name. > > > > Here you go wrong on all points.. Next time, bring 100% more experience. > > Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:45:14 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > The missing parts are not so big but nobody is working on that. > > > > I dont' know why people are so sad. X11 should have died long time ago. > > > > This is not exactly inspirational, neither convincing. Try again later.. > Juan, I still can not find one single piece of text where you were right. Can you show me what missing Wayland part is bigger than DRM+Mesa+LLVM?. After the personal attack, I was hoping a more elaborated answer. -- Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
Re: Future of X.org?
Mon, 1 Jul 2019 17:13:44 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 05:20:20PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote: > > Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:46:33 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 09:09:08PM +, Roderick wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2019, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nope, you misunderstood the text. > > > > > > > > No. It is *you* that do not understand what X11 is and want it death. > > > > A very destructive attitude. > > > > > > You're the only one with a destructive attitude here. I'm trying to help > > > you because usually people doesn't understand how wayland works. > > > > You can't do without YOU understanding basics of X11, do something else.. > > Juan, I don't trust your lack of any qualification for even feature bait. > > Show me where I am wrong. Enlighten us with your qualification No Name. > Here you go wrong on all points.. Next time, bring 100% more experience. Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:45:14 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > > The missing parts are not so big but nobody is working on that. > > I dont' know why people are so sad. X11 should have died long time ago. > This is not exactly inspirational, neither convincing. Try again later.. Juan, I still can not find one single piece of text where you were right.
Re: Future of X.org?
Mon, 01 Jul 2019 07:09:41 +0300 cho...@jtan.com > > I don't think I'll be relying on software from such confused individuals any > time soon. Since when? Make a note: your long lines will never fit on a punch card. > Matthew >
Re: Future of X.org?
li...@wrant.com writes: > You can't do without YOU understanding basics of X11, do something else.. > Juan, I don't trust your lack of any qualification for even feature bait. Two dots? This thing should never have more than one dot. How about: > You can't do without YOUR understanding X11 basics; go do something else. Slightly awkward but still gramatically correct. Matthew
Re: Future of X.org?
Mon, 1 Jul 2019 02:22:02 +0300 Leonid Bobrov > I make a mistake by writting this mail, but: > > X Window System is just a shit windowing system while Wayland is a simple, > fast and secure display server protocol. > (Well, almost simple, this XML dependance is overkill.) > > You people protecting X make me doubt that OpenBSD aims security, I am > agree with Linus Torvalds who called us monkeys. > Yes, it's a mistake. Normally, nothing interferes with addition of ports. When and if this new protocol proves useful, consider switching just then.
Re: Future of X.org?
Mon, 1 Jul 2019 00:46:33 +0200 Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 09:09:08PM +, Roderick wrote: > > > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2019, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote: > > > > > Nope, you misunderstood the text. > > > > No. It is *you* that do not understand what X11 is and want it death. > > A very destructive attitude. > > You're the only one with a destructive attitude here. I'm trying to help > you because usually people doesn't understand how wayland works. You can't do without YOU understanding basics of X11, do something else.. Juan, I don't trust your lack of any qualification for even feature bait.
Re: L2TP/IPSec PSK with Android -- INVALID_ID_INFORMATION
Hello Dani... this is just a report from the "works for me" department: l...@ecentrum.hu (Lévai, Dániel), 2019.06.30 (Sun) 19:12 (CEST): > I know (saw) this has come up numerous times, and someone has been > successful, others weren't. I thought I'd try this out myself, and not > surprisingly it wasn't successful :) > > So this is my configuration: > OpenBSD 6.5-stable Same here. > /etc/ipsec.conf: > ike passive esp transport \ > proto udp \ > from any to any port l2tp \ ^^^ I have my external IP here > main auth "hmac-sha2" enc "aes-256" group modp1024 \ ^ 1 here ^^^ just "aes" 2048 here > quick auth "hmac-sha2" enc "aes-256" \ ^ 1 here ^^^ just "aes" I have "group modp2048" here, too > psk "thisismykey" ^^^ same here :-) Just tested auth "hmac-sha2" - does not work. enc "aes-256"- does not work. Complete snippet: ike passive esp transport proto udp \ from AAA.BBB.CCC.DDD to any port 1701 \ main auth "hmac-sha1" enc "aes" group modp2048 \ quick auth "hmac-sha1" enc "aes" group modp2048 \ psk "thisismykey" > Then doing an: > /sbin/ipsecctl -vf /etc/ipsec.conf For testing configs I had to make this "ipsecctl -Fvf /etc/ipsec.conf"! [snip log] > /etc/npppd/npppd.conf: > =8<= Same here. Marcus > So now when I connect from my Android 9 phone, set up as an L2TP/IPsec > PSK connection, specifying the Server address as my internal LAN IP on > the OpenBSD router (no NAT, just direct connection on the local > network), setting the IPSec preshared key to the real key, and > entering my username and password I've set for npppd(8), I'm getting > this output from isakmpd(8): > =8<= > 190048.505560 Default attribute_unacceptable: HASH_ALGORITHM: got SHA2_384, > expected SHA2_256 > 190048.505768 Default attribute_unacceptable: GROUP_DESCRIPTION: got > MODP_1024, expected MODP_3072 > 190048.505943 Default attribute_unacceptable: HASH_ALGORITHM: got SHA2_384, > expected SHA2_256 > 190048.530050 Default isakmpd: phase 1 done (as responder): initiator id > 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1, src: 192.168.0.1 dst: 192.168.5.17 > 190049.556596 Default responder_recv_HASH_SA_NONCE: peer proposed invalid > phase 2 IDs: initiator id 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1 > 190049.556699 Default dropped message from 192.168.5.17 port 500 due to > notification type INVALID_ID_INFORMATION > 190052.571991 Default responder_recv_HASH_SA_NONCE: peer proposed invalid > phase 2 IDs: initiator id 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1 > 190052.572093 Default dropped message from 192.168.5.17 port 500 due to > notification type INVALID_ID_INFORMATION > 190055.594500 Default responder_recv_HASH_SA_NONCE: peer proposed invalid > phase 2 IDs: initiator id 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1 > 190055.594593 Default dropped message from 192.168.5.17 port 500 due to > notification type INVALID_ID_INFORMATION > 190058.615783 Default responder_recv_HASH_SA_NONCE: peer proposed invalid > phase 2 IDs: initiator id 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1 > 190058.615909 Default dropped message from 192.168.5.17 port 500 due to > notification type INVALID_ID_INFORMATION > 190101.642382 Default responder_recv_HASH_SA_NONCE: peer proposed invalid > phase 2 IDs: initiator id 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1 > 190101.642478 Default dropped message from 192.168.5.17 port 500 due to > notification type INVALID_ID_INFORMATION > 190104.674817 Default responder_recv_HASH_SA_NONCE: peer proposed invalid > phase 2 IDs: initiator id 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1 > 190104.674885 Default dropped message from 192.168.5.17 port 500 due to > notification type INVALID_ID_INFORMATION > 190107.702932 Default responder_recv_HASH_SA_NONCE: peer proposed invalid > phase 2 IDs: initiator id 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1 > 190107.703001 Default dropped message from 192.168.5.17 port 500 due to > notification type INVALID_ID_INFORMATION > 190110.728935 Default responder_recv_HASH_SA_NONCE: peer proposed invalid > phase 2 IDs: initiator id 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1 > 190110.729004 Default dropped message from 192.168.5.17 port 500 due to > notification type INVALID_ID_INFORMATION > 190113.760991 Default responder_recv_HASH_SA_NONCE: peer proposed invalid > phase 2 IDs: initiator id 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1 > 190113.761061 Default dropped message from 192.168.5.17 port 500 due to > notification type INVALID_ID_INFORMATION > 190116.770799 Default responder_recv_HASH_SA_NONCE: peer proposed invalid > phase 2 IDs: initiator id 192.168.5.17, responder id 192.168.0.1 > 190116.770869 Default dropped message from 1
Re: Evernote Alternative?
Just a little addendum to your final post: I use OpenBSD as my desktop environment (also MAC OS and Linux) and I was looking for years for an outline application which I can use on every OS. Finally I switched from open to (paid) closed source *sigh* but now most of my problems were solved. I use notecasepro, an I think I'm the only user who uses it on OpenBSD, because I have to ask for a version running on an actual OpenBSD release. And no, this is not an advertisement, but my personal result after evaluating a lot of similar software which I can use on Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS but not on OpenBSD. Regards Andre Am 29.06.19 um 22:56 schrieb Chris Humphries: Final post. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
