Re: Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform
On 9/4/08, Brian Drain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe one of these days closed hardware vendors like Intel, Creative, > etc., will open up a bit and provide the necessary support to people > trying to write software that will flawlessly work with various > hardware, much better than the original vendor could ever dream of > doing. Was this related to NX bit support? Because NX is documented and does work flawlessly.
Re: Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform
No. Just a general statement regarding some vendors being completely inept at letting developers get access to what they "think" is IP and preventing them from running hardware that they purchased on whatever platform they want without the need to reverse engineer it. -Original Message- From: Ted Unangst [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:04 PM To: Brian Drain Cc: Theo de Raadt; misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform On 9/4/08, Brian Drain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe one of these days closed hardware vendors like Intel, Creative, > etc., will open up a bit and provide the necessary support to people > trying to write software that will flawlessly work with various > hardware, much better than the original vendor could ever dream of > doing. Was this related to NX bit support? Because NX is documented and does work flawlessly.
Re: Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform
Hello Patric - No particular application but as an available security feature, albeit not the panacea the masses thought it would be when released, I was just curious how it potentially worked (or didn't work) with the Intel processors using amd64. I can say in the environments I've been in, NX never stopped anything, just slightly mitigated the damage done (and even that was debatable). I would have to assume that with the stability and maturity I've come to find in OpenBSD W^X may never come in to play or ever be needed. Cheers, Brian Drain From: patric conant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:22 PM To: Brian Drain Cc: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform This is OT, but I am curious as to the application that makes no-execute a killer feature for you? On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Brian Drain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello misc@ I've read through the FAQ and done some searching on the mailing lists + google, but I cannot find a definitive answer to my question. To keep it simple, I'm looking at installing OpenBSD on a ThinkPad T61p w/Intel Core 2 Duo. I've been reading that the amd64 platform will work however the NX bit isn't supported. Intel has since come out with their own version of the NX bit for whatever reason (shouldn't they have just copied it like they did everything else?), the XD bit. Has this been implemented anywhere so that the amd64-bit platform, running under an Intel proc, will support W^X? If not it looks like I should stick with 32-bit... and if not, any plans in the future on implementing Intel's specific XD bit? Thanks, Brian Drain -- Some software money can't buy. For everything else there's Micros~1.
Re: Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform
> Thank you Theo for the quick reply. I will give it a shot as it appears > from your answer the newer Intel processors should have this > functionality, albeit named very unconventionally. Would there be > something in dmesg that would indicate proper W^X support once > installed? cpu0: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,NXE,MMXX,LONG,3DNOW2,3DNOW That little 'NXE' above indicates it has it. Whether it works correct or not is another matter. > Maybe one of these days closed hardware vendors like Intel, Creative, > etc., will open up a bit and provide the necessary support to people > trying to write software that will flawlessly work with various > hardware, much better than the original vendor could ever dream of > doing. Good lord; why would they do that. Their investment overlords would never permit a open and fair playing field or competitive market. Monopolies like monopolies, and olygopolies are really just monolopies.
Re: Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform
This is OT, but I am curious as to the application that makes no-execute a killer feature for you? On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Brian Drain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello misc@ > > I've read through the FAQ and done some searching on the mailing lists + > google, but I cannot find a definitive answer to my question. To keep > it simple, I'm looking at installing OpenBSD on a ThinkPad T61p w/Intel > Core 2 Duo. I've been reading that the amd64 platform will work however > the NX bit isn't supported. Intel has since come out with their own > version of the NX bit for whatever reason (shouldn't they have just > copied it like they did everything else?), the XD bit. Has this been > implemented anywhere so that the amd64-bit platform, running under an > Intel proc, will support W^X? If not it looks like I should stick with > 32-bit... and if not, any plans in the future on implementing Intel's > specific XD bit? > > > Thanks, > Brian Drain > > -- Some software money can't buy. For everything else there's Micros~1.
Re: Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform
Thank you Theo for the quick reply. I will give it a shot as it appears from your answer the newer Intel processors should have this functionality, albeit named very unconventionally. Would there be something in dmesg that would indicate proper W^X support once installed? Maybe one of these days closed hardware vendors like Intel, Creative, etc., will open up a bit and provide the necessary support to people trying to write software that will flawlessly work with various hardware, much better than the original vendor could ever dream of doing. Best regards, Brian Drain -Original Message- From: Theo de Raadt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:13 PM To: Brian Drain Cc: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform > I've read through the FAQ and done some searching on the mailing lists > + google, but I cannot find a definitive answer to my question. To > keep it simple, I'm looking at installing OpenBSD on a ThinkPad T61p > w/Intel Core 2 Duo. I've been reading that the amd64 platform will > work however the NX bit isn't supported. Not all Intel cpu's support it. > Intel has since come out with their own version of the NX bit for > whatever reason (shouldn't they have just copied it like they did > everything else?), the XD bit. It isn't their own XD bit. They just couldn't help letting the lawyers rename it and put a trademark on it. It works exactly the same. Except on some Intel machines where it does not exist, or where it is broken. > Has this been > implemented anywhere so that the amd64-bit platform, running under an > Intel proc, will support W^X? Most Intel processors now do it correctly. > If not it looks like I should stick with 32-bit... and if not, any > plans in the future on implementing Intel's specific XD bit? There is no Intel specific XD bit. It works 100% the same. It is identical. Intel just felt that they needed to rename everything because it would make things oh so much more clear.
Re: Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform
> I've read through the FAQ and done some searching on the mailing lists + > google, but I cannot find a definitive answer to my question. To keep > it simple, I'm looking at installing OpenBSD on a ThinkPad T61p w/Intel > Core 2 Duo. I've been reading that the amd64 platform will work however > the NX bit isn't supported. Not all Intel cpu's support it. > Intel has since come out with their own > version of the NX bit for whatever reason (shouldn't they have just > copied it like they did everything else?), the XD bit. It isn't their own XD bit. They just couldn't help letting the lawyers rename it and put a trademark on it. It works exactly the same. Except on some Intel machines where it does not exist, or where it is broken. > Has this been > implemented anywhere so that the amd64-bit platform, running under an > Intel proc, will support W^X? Most Intel processors now do it correctly. > If not it looks like I should stick with > 32-bit... and if not, any plans in the future on implementing Intel's > specific XD bit? There is no Intel specific XD bit. It works 100% the same. It is identical. Intel just felt that they needed to rename everything because it would make things oh so much more clear.
Intel x86-64 using the amd64 platform
Hello misc@ I've read through the FAQ and done some searching on the mailing lists + google, but I cannot find a definitive answer to my question. To keep it simple, I'm looking at installing OpenBSD on a ThinkPad T61p w/Intel Core 2 Duo. I've been reading that the amd64 platform will work however the NX bit isn't supported. Intel has since come out with their own version of the NX bit for whatever reason (shouldn't they have just copied it like they did everything else?), the XD bit. Has this been implemented anywhere so that the amd64-bit platform, running under an Intel proc, will support W^X? If not it looks like I should stick with 32-bit... and if not, any plans in the future on implementing Intel's specific XD bit? Thanks, Brian Drain
