Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 09:16:13PM -0700, J.C. Roberts wrote: Here in the US, a plain (uncoiled) circuit between two points is either called an alarm circuit or a dry pair if that's what you got, and you're within distance requirements (wire feet), you can do a number of different things; from all/most the various *DSL technologies, to using CSU/DSU endpoints. Heh, I was thinking he wanted to run linespeed ethernet over a pair of voice grade copper. Duh.. [blush]
Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Gustavo Rios wrote: Dear friends, sorry for being off-topic, i am able to rent a pair of twist line (a circuit) between my home and and friends one. I wonder if there exist and ethernet extender device that could connect an ethernet cable to a phone line. It would do no special work, just a raw connection between 2 types of layer, i.e, take bits from one end and put it into the another and vice-versa. If you truly can get such a service (most RBOCs stopped selling 'dry pair' or 'alarm circuits' in the 80s), get TWO pair. There are a number of companies selling 'Ethernet over Twisted Pair' converters. One problem, however, is that the 100M distance limitation could make such a connectio pretty impractical, even IF the line conditioning permitted the connection. Does that exists ? If you're fairly close, however, WiFi with high gain antennas might be a much better solution. Lee Leland V. Lammert[EMAIL PROTECTED] Chief Scientist Omnitec Corporation Network/Internet Consultants www.omnitec.net
Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 08:44:08AM -0500, Gordon Grieder wrote: On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 09:16:13PM -0700, J.C. Roberts wrote: Here in the US, a plain (uncoiled) circuit between two points is either called an alarm circuit or a dry pair if that's what you got, and you're within distance requirements (wire feet), you can do a number of different things; from all/most the various *DSL technologies, to using CSU/DSU endpoints. Heh, I was thinking he wanted to run linespeed ethernet over a pair of voice grade copper. Duh.. [blush] Anyone remember HP's 100VG? They had switches that would do 100 Mb/s ethernet over voice-grade copper (Cat 3). It doesn't sound like that's quite what's wanted here, though IIRC 100VG was a failure and presumably the switches could be found for cheap. -j
Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
On Wednesday 31 August 2005 10:43, L. V. Lammert wrote: One problem, however, is that the 100M distance limitation could make such a connectio pretty impractical, even IF the line conditioning permitted the connection. How about a wireless connection using at both ends Yagi antennas with the requisite gain for the distance to be covered? Dave Feustel -- Tired of having to defend against Malware? (You know: trojans, viruses, SPYWARE, ADWARE, KEYLOGGERS, rootkits, worms and popups) Then Switch to OpenBSD with a KDE desktop!!!
Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
sorry for being off-topic, i am able to rent a pair of twist line (a circuit) between my home and and friends one. I wonder if there exist and ethernet extender device that could connect an ethernet cable to a phone line. It would do no special work, just a raw connection between 2 types of layer, i.e, take bits from one end and put it into the another and vice-versa. If you truly can get such a service (most RBOCs stopped selling 'dry pair' or 'alarm circuits' in the 80s), get TWO pair. There are a number of companies selling 'Ethernet over Twisted Pair' converters. One problem, however, is that the 100M distance limitation could make such a connectio pretty impractical, even IF the line conditioning permitted the connection. Does that exists ? If you're fairly close, however, WiFi with high gain antennas might be a much better solution. Although I am in Calgary, I have a hard time believing you can't get an unpowered, unloaded circuit from one of the American incumbents. How is Chubb supposed to monitor your business' alarm if this product is not available? What I can see is the RBOCs trying to upsell you to one of their managed services. If the RBOCs didn't make dry copper available, you wouldn't have many competitve DSL service providers state-side...not everyone is going to wholesale the RBOCs' DSL and then off-load onto a data trunk. The solution here is a pair of Efficient Networks/Flowpoint SDSL modems, back to back. These will do 1.5M to 2Mbit of bridged Ethernet at 5000 cable-feet. And a pair will cost you under US$100 with shipping on Ebay. Heck, there's a guy selling 10 of them with a Buy Now! of US$280. --J
Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
At 07:39 PM 8/31/2005 +, you wrote: Although I am in Calgary, I have a hard time believing you can't get an unpowered, unloaded circuit from one of the American incumbents. How is Chubb supposed to monitor your business' alarm if this product is not available? 'Dry Circuits' went out of favor in the 80s in the states, .. nowdays critical alarm circuits are backed by RF links (as we do here via RF link, or via cell backup). What I can see is the RBOCs trying to upsell you to one of their managed services. If the RBOCs didn't make dry copper available, you wouldn't have many competitve DSL service providers state-side...not everyone is going to wholesale the RBOCs' DSL and then off-load onto a data trunk. Not a physical issue, really, rather it's one of tafiff's - the RBOCs got 'dry pairs' removed from the tariffs as soon as practical - most when DSL services was introduced; in other cases, the cost ($100/month+) allowed the marketplace to do it for them. The solution here is a pair of Efficient Networks/Flowpoint SDSL modems, back to back. These will do 1.5M to 2Mbit of bridged Ethernet at 5000 cable-feet. And a pair will cost you under US$100 with shipping on Ebay. Heck, there's a guy selling 10 of them with a Buy Now! of US$280. Quite possible, but there are a lot of simpler (and probably less costly) solutions. Lee
OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
Dear friends, sorry for being off-topic, i am able to rent a pair of twist line (a circuit) between my home and and friends one. I wonder if there exist and ethernet extender device that could connect an ethernet cable to a phone line. It would do no special work, just a raw connection between 2 types of layer, i.e, take bits from one end and put it into the another and vice-versa. BTW: i am no engineer (CS Bachelor), so sorry if it sounds too stupid. Does that exists ? PS: yes, i am a user of OBSD and i am using this list cause i know no other best suited for this message, if possible, point me one possible right mailing list for such subject.
Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 09:41:44PM -0300, Gustavo Rios wrote: Dear friends, sorry for being off-topic, i am able to rent a pair of twist line (a circuit) between my home and and friends one. I wonder if there exist and ethernet extender device that could connect an ethernet cable to a phone line. It would do no special work, just a raw connection between 2 types of layer, i.e, take bits from one end and put it into the another and vice-versa. .. Does that exists ? I doubt it. Most voice line copper is Cat-3(?) We used to run Apple's LocalTalk across that type of twisted pair but only at speeds of 230 Kbps. Gord
Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
Depending on the distances and the electrical characteristics, you may want to consider some of the products that Cisco offers to provide wired high-speed in hotel rooms, dormitories and the like. They're specifically designed to run on lower-quality copper circuits with the corresponding drop in bandwidth, but if you can be happy with T1 speeds between you and your friend's house for the cost of a dry pair it might be just the thing for you. There's also things like HDSL adapters but then you need T1 CSUs or DSUs and routers, etc., oh my. Find out what kind of Nyquist frequencies the dry pair provider is willing to guarantee over what distances and then you can go from there. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gordon Grieder Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 5:51 PM To: Gustavo Rios Cc: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 09:41:44PM -0300, Gustavo Rios wrote: Dear friends, sorry for being off-topic, i am able to rent a pair of twist line (a circuit) between my home and and friends one. I wonder if there exist and ethernet extender device that could connect an ethernet cable to a phone line. It would do no special work, just a raw connection between 2 types of layer, i.e, take bits from one end and put it into the another and vice-versa. .. Does that exists ? I doubt it. Most voice line copper is Cat-3(?) We used to run Apple's LocalTalk across that type of twisted pair but only at speeds of 230 Kbps. Gord
Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
Dear friends, sorry for being off-topic, i am able to rent a pair of twist line (a circuit) between my home and and friends one. I wonder if there exist and ethernet extender device that could connect an ethernet cable to a phone line. It would do no special work, just a raw connection between 2 types of layer, i.e, take bits from one end and put it into the another and vice-versa. BTW: i am no engineer (CS Bachelor), so sorry if it sounds too stupid. Does that exists ? PS: yes, i am a user of OBSD and i am using this list cause i know no other best suited for this message, if possible, point me one possible right mailing list for such subject. This is the whole point of this: http://accoom.kd85.com/ Wim, Claudio or Andre Oppermann (FreeBSD dude) may be able to shed more light. Claudio committed a driver 2 weeks ago (musycc). Alternatively, you can take a pair of SDSL modems and run them back-to-back. This will hand off Ethernet at either end. The modems are relatively cheap on Ebay. There is a fair amount of info on the web about this type of setup if you google around. --Jason
Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 02:34:16AM +, Jason George wrote: This is the whole point of this: http://accoom.kd85.com/ Wow, very neat. Thanks for enlightening me!
Re: OT: phone line 2 ethernet converters
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:41:44 -0300, Gustavo Rios [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear friends, sorry for being off-topic, i am able to rent a pair of twist line (a circuit) between my home and and friends one. I wonder if there exist and ethernet extender device that could connect an ethernet cable to a phone line. It would do no special work, just a raw connection between 2 types of layer, i.e, take bits from one end and put it into the another and vice-versa. BTW: i am no engineer (CS Bachelor), so sorry if it sounds too stupid. Does that exists ? PS: yes, i am a user of OBSD and i am using this list cause i know no other best suited for this message, if possible, point me one possible right mailing list for such subject. Here in the US, a plain (uncoiled) circuit between two points is either called an alarm circuit or a dry pair if that's what you got, and you're within distance requirements (wire feet), you can do a number of different things; from all/most the various *DSL technologies, to using CSU/DSU endpoints. Though I don't think much of Cringely, you might find this interesting: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010823.html Good luck, JCR
