Re: OpenSparc T1
Ok guys, Lets kill this one. I did asked that question simply out of curiosity more then a week ago and I got the answer. End of story. Like I said then, I was just curious. Sure I would love to see OpenBSD running on the 32 simultaneous processing threads of the T1 processor, but Theo is right. No docs for the full stuff, no OS for it. I did forget about the chipset then, my mistake! It was a short, no request and no punch intended question then. I got a short, direct and simple answer to it and I stop there as it was very logical and practical. I am sorry to have asked that question now, so lets move on until Sun open up, there isn't much we can do. Sorry for the noise my question have cause! Daniel
Re: OpenSparc T1
No this is only processor documentation. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-miscm=113398028623246w=2 Let me be clear. Imagine if we only had processor documentation for Intel-based machines: This is what a real i386 dmesg would look like. Look carefully. And I am not making a joke. OpenBSD 3.9-beta (GENERIC.MP) #571: Wed Jan 18 19:54:24 MST 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP cpu0: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.06GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 3.06 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,ACPI, MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID real mem = 2147000320 (2096680K) avail mem = 1952940032 (1907168K) using 4278 buffers containing 107454464 bytes (104936K) of memory mainbus0 (root) bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(00) BIOS, date 07/09/03, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfdb30 apm0 at bios0: Power Management spec V1.2 apm0: AC on, battery charge unknown apm0: flags 30102 dobusy 0 doidle 1 pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xf/0x1 pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xf4880/160 (8 entries) pcibios0: PCI Interrupt Router at 000:01:7 (ServerWorks CSB5 rev 0x00) pcibios0: PCI bus #0 is the last bus bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0x8000 0xc8000/0x4e00! mainbus0: Intel MP Specification (Version 1.4) (AMI GCHE) cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: apic clock running at 132 MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.06GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 3.06 GHz cpu1: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,ACPI, MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID cpu2 at mainbus0: apid 6 (application processor) cpu2: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.06GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 3.06 GHz cpu2: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,ACPI, MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID cpu3 at mainbus0: apid 7 (application processor) cpu3: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.06GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 3.06 GHz cpu3: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,ACPI, MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID mainbus not configured panic: root not found
Re: OpenSparc T1
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:59:05 -0700 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No this is only processor documentation. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-miscm=113398028623246w=2 Let me be clear. Imagine if we only had processor documentation for Intel-based machines: Its actually not only processor documentation though. Its docs for the new sun4v arch, specifically so people can port operating systems to it. Operating systems run on the hypervisor, not on the hardware. http://opensparc.sunsource.net/specs/Hypervisor-api-current-draft.pdf That includes PCI I/O Services, so its definately more than just CPU info. The Sun people are under the impression that the docs up there are everything that's needed to port an OS, so if there's something missing, tell us specifically what it is so we can get on Sun's case about it. Adam
Re: OpenSparc T1
Its actually not only processor documentation though. Its docs for the new sun4v arch, specifically so people can port operating systems to it. Operating systems run on the hypervisor, not on the hardware. http://opensparc.sunsource.net/specs/Hypervisor-api-current-draft.pdf That includes PCI I/O Services, so its definately more than just CPU info. The Sun people are under the impression that the docs up there are everything that's needed to port an OS, so if there's something missing, tell us specifically what it is so we can get on Sun's case about it. If you know so much, write the code. Fact is, you don't. You just believe their lies. Until we support UltrasparcIII, there is no point in supporting another stupid Sun trap.
Re: OpenSparc T1
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:08:26 -0700 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its actually not only processor documentation though. Its docs for the new sun4v arch, specifically so people can port operating systems to it. Operating systems run on the hypervisor, not on the hardware. http://opensparc.sunsource.net/specs/Hypervisor-api-current-draft.pdf That includes PCI I/O Services, so its definately more than just CPU info. The Sun people are under the impression that the docs up there are everything that's needed to port an OS, so if there's something missing, tell us specifically what it is so we can get on Sun's case about it. If you know so much, write the code. Fact is, you don't. You just believe their lies. Until we support UltrasparcIII, there is no point in supporting another stupid Sun trap. If you don't want to support sun4v that's up to you, I don't care. I was simply pointing out that it is full arch docs. Claiming you can't support it because of missing docs gives the impression that you want to support it. Just say we don't like Sun instead and you won't have to be bothered with people pointing you to the docs. Adam
Re: OpenSparc T1
On 2/24/06, Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:08:26 -0700 Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its actually not only processor documentation though. Its docs for the new sun4v arch, specifically so people can port operating systems to it. Operating systems run on the hypervisor, not on the hardware. http://opensparc.sunsource.net/specs/Hypervisor-api-current-draft.pdf That includes PCI I/O Services, so its definately more than just CPU info. The Sun people are under the impression that the docs up there are everything that's needed to port an OS, so if there's something missing, tell us specifically what it is so we can get on Sun's case about it. If you know so much, write the code. Fact is, you don't. You just believe their lies. Until we support UltrasparcIII, there is no point in supporting another stupid Sun trap. If you don't want to support sun4v that's up to you, I don't care. I was simply pointing out that it is full arch docs. Claiming you can't support it because of missing docs gives the impression that you want to support it. Just say we don't like Sun instead and you won't have to be bothered with people pointing you to the docs. No Adam, The case is that from experience it is found impossible to get all the necessarry docs to resonably support their hardware. I am experiencing the frustration of not even getting replies from people who got on stage in differrent meetings and spoke about open source and freeing documentation and those who promised to help :-( They are not fully Open as they claim to be, and ( at least I feel ) they really are not serious about opening up either. They just want to misinform people make a feeling that they are for the open cause and get some marketting benefit when they really are not! ( At least this is what I feel from experience) Kind Regards Siju
Re: OpenSparc T1
We don't even have any documentation for Sun's ethernet chipsets, even the old gem found in machines which showed up on the market about 8-10 years ago. Let alone their newer chipsets, or their pci chipsets. And largely we suspect we don't get documentation because it would show how buggy their hardware is. And now we should use some binary middle layer, and let me guess -- it will be bug free, or wait, when there are bugs found, they will help us fix them? Right
OpenSparc T1
No punch intended to anyone at all, but I was just curious about the new Sun T1 processor and initiative. They release today their spec and documentations on the Internet: http://opensparc.sunsource.net/nonav/opensparct1.html Is this is the type of documentations that OpenBSD is requesting from various vendors and does it mean that we might one day see OpenBSD running on UltraSparc T1? Please don't get me wrong, this is not a request, but I am very curious as to see if that might be possible, but mostly I am curious as to the always on going issue with documentations from Vendor. Is this any good and can be consider to be what's needed to actually fully do it? So far looks like it can be downloaded without any NDA, and the like, etc. No flame on this one please, just a purely curious question that's all. Daniel
Re: OpenSparc T1
On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 12:04:12AM -0500, Daniel Ouellet wrote: No punch intended to anyone at all, but I was just curious about the new Sun T1 processor and initiative. They release today their spec and documentations on the Internet: http://opensparc.sunsource.net/nonav/opensparct1.html Is this is the type of documentations that OpenBSD is requesting from various vendors and does it mean that we might one day see OpenBSD running on UltraSparc T1? No this is only processor documentation. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-miscm=113398028623246w=2
