Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[valerij zaporogeci]

ok. thanks. i got it. there is no interest to make the kernel use page
tables for itself. like this is not the case on other architectures.)

btw, on ci20, you have 256 MB of RAM for the unmapped "feature"
(another 256 is assigned to devices or reserved). I believe, 256 MB
(25% of all the SDRAM) is enough for everything in the kernel, except
the file cache. I guess having 64 bit cpu on such a machine like ci20
would be "a waste of time". whatever. will be using crappux as a test
payload. xD

2017-05-25 15:54 GMT+03:00, Daniel Dickman :
>
>
>> On May 25, 2017, at 8:28 AM, Karel Gardas  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 2:05 PM, valerij zaporogeci 
>>> wrote:
>>> 2017-05-25 3:46 GMT+03:00, Chris Cappuccio :

 OpenBSD is moving ahead on armv7, arm64, and mips64 (loongson, octeon,
 sgi)
 as viable alternatives to i386/amd64. Other platforms are not well
 supported
 usually due to lack of available hardware and, therefore, developer
 interest.

 Chris

>>>
>>> Sorry for off-topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread, it's
>>> just a small question. Is OpenBSD "moving ahead" to mips32 too under
>>> this mentioned move? :) More specifically is there an effort to run it
>>> on such a mips SBC like Imagination's Mips Creator CI20? I know it's
>>> just a tiny mini-PC, not a sever thingy, but it's not worse than
>>> Raspperry Pi by the hardware capabilies.
>>> I am asking because I am trying to write an UEFI implementation on it,
>>> xD and am wondering if OpenBSD had support for this board, would it
>>> use efi loader approach on this architecture or not.
>>> I know, there is no UEFI support for mips even in the UEFI
>>> specification, that's why I am doing my attempt. :)
>>
>> Search the archives, but IIRC last "message" was that mips32 is a no
>> go. The reason if I'm not mistaken is some MMU thingy or limitation or
>> whatever. I'm sure you will be able to find it in archive of this
>> mailing list.
>>
>
>
> https://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/16/mmcconv1/others/miod-mips32.txt

Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[Daniel Dickman]

> On May 25, 2017, at 8:28 AM, Karel Gardas  wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 2:05 PM, valerij zaporogeci  
>> wrote:
>> 2017-05-25 3:46 GMT+03:00, Chris Cappuccio :
>>> 
>>> OpenBSD is moving ahead on armv7, arm64, and mips64 (loongson, octeon, sgi)
>>> as viable alternatives to i386/amd64. Other platforms are not well supported
>>> usually due to lack of available hardware and, therefore, developer
>>> interest.
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>> 
>> Sorry for off-topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread, it's
>> just a small question. Is OpenBSD "moving ahead" to mips32 too under
>> this mentioned move? :) More specifically is there an effort to run it
>> on such a mips SBC like Imagination's Mips Creator CI20? I know it's
>> just a tiny mini-PC, not a sever thingy, but it's not worse than
>> Raspperry Pi by the hardware capabilies.
>> I am asking because I am trying to write an UEFI implementation on it,
>> xD and am wondering if OpenBSD had support for this board, would it
>> use efi loader approach on this architecture or not.
>> I know, there is no UEFI support for mips even in the UEFI
>> specification, that's why I am doing my attempt. :)
> 
> Search the archives, but IIRC last "message" was that mips32 is a no
> go. The reason if I'm not mistaken is some MMU thingy or limitation or
> whatever. I'm sure you will be able to find it in archive of this
> mailing list.
> 


https://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/16/mmcconv1/others/miod-mips32.txt

Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[Karel Gardas]

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 2:05 PM, valerij zaporogeci  wrote:
> 2017-05-25 3:46 GMT+03:00, Chris Cappuccio :
>>
>> OpenBSD is moving ahead on armv7, arm64, and mips64 (loongson, octeon, sgi)
>> as viable alternatives to i386/amd64. Other platforms are not well supported
>> usually due to lack of available hardware and, therefore, developer
>> interest.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> Sorry for off-topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread, it's
> just a small question. Is OpenBSD "moving ahead" to mips32 too under
> this mentioned move? :) More specifically is there an effort to run it
> on such a mips SBC like Imagination's Mips Creator CI20? I know it's
> just a tiny mini-PC, not a sever thingy, but it's not worse than
> Raspperry Pi by the hardware capabilies.
> I am asking because I am trying to write an UEFI implementation on it,
> xD and am wondering if OpenBSD had support for this board, would it
> use efi loader approach on this architecture or not.
> I know, there is no UEFI support for mips even in the UEFI
> specification, that's why I am doing my attempt. :)

Search the archives, but IIRC last "message" was that mips32 is a no
go. The reason if I'm not mistaken is some MMU thingy or limitation or
whatever. I'm sure you will be able to find it in archive of this
mailing list.

Re: Gina/Adityha, followup on donation request re OpenPower devices Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[Stuart Henderson]

On 2017-05-25, Mikael  wrote:
> This email followup was mostly to reflect that a member of the general
> public has asked for the support that a donation of OpenPower devices would
> lead to.
>
> Feel free to forward it to the person at your company who has the power to
> sign off on a donation e.g. your CEO.
>
> This is a pro bono email.
>
> I personally think Power9/Power8 support is a useful thing and if
> 10x2,850USD would have been less than say 0.2% of my wealth, I'd simply
> have taken this matter through a web shopping cart.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> Thanks!,
> Mikael More


I don't get this. You're asking a company to donate a bunch of machines
and expecting developers to do a bunch of work (and you don't even know that
anyone is interested). And you're putting in what exactly? Emails that might
sour possible future relationships if devs might sometime be interested in
requesting this later? I hope you made it clear that you're not involved
with the OpenBSD project yourself.

Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[valerij zaporogeci]

2017-05-25 3:46 GMT+03:00, Chris Cappuccio :
>
> OpenBSD is moving ahead on armv7, arm64, and mips64 (loongson, octeon, sgi)
> as viable alternatives to i386/amd64. Other platforms are not well supported
> usually due to lack of available hardware and, therefore, developer
> interest.
>
> Chris
>

Sorry for off-topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread, it's
just a small question. Is OpenBSD "moving ahead" to mips32 too under
this mentioned move? :) More specifically is there an effort to run it
on such a mips SBC like Imagination's Mips Creator CI20? I know it's
just a tiny mini-PC, not a sever thingy, but it's not worse than
Raspperry Pi by the hardware capabilies.
I am asking because I am trying to write an UEFI implementation on it,
xD and am wondering if OpenBSD had support for this board, would it
use efi loader approach on this architecture or not.
I know, there is no UEFI support for mips even in the UEFI
specification, that's why I am doing my attempt. :)

Re: Gina/Adityha, followup on donation request re OpenPower devices Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[Kevin Chadwick]

On Wed, 24 May 2017 23:30:33 -0700


> I can't tell, are you trolling these people?
> 
> Or, do you sincerely find these to be an effective set of techniques
> to convince other people of your beliefs?

IBM's revenues have been falling for a while so my guess is the only
hope being that you expect them to get future sales from this donation
to cover the hardware and paperwork cost, especially if it means going
to a boss. Or if the publicity was worth it. I doubt they will take a
gamble on the math, unfortunately??

Re: Gina/Adityha, followup on donation request re OpenPower devices Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[Chris Cappuccio]

Hi Mikael,

I can't tell, are you trolling these people?

Or, do you sincerely find these to be an effective set of techniques to 
convince other people of your beliefs?

This is a pro bono email.

Chris

Mikael [mikael.ml...@gmail.com] wrote:
> Hi IBM,
> 
> This email followup was mostly to reflect that a member of the general
> public has asked for the support that a donation of OpenPower devices would
> lead to.
> 
> Feel free to forward it to the person at your company who has the power to
> sign off on a donation e.g. your CEO.
> 
> This is a pro bono email.
> 
> I personally think Power9/Power8 support is a useful thing and if
> 10x2,850USD would have been less than say 0.2% of my wealth, I'd simply
> have taken this matter through a web shopping cart.
> 
> Have a good day.
> 
> Thanks!,
> Mikael More
> 
> 2017-05-25 13:52 GMT+08:00 Mikael :
> 
> > Hi Kai and IBM,
> >
> > Yes I did the attempts to contact IBM to get Power donations, as quoted by
> > axon below. A guy by the name Benjamin Herrenschmidt at IBM used the word
> > 'execrable' about me in PM, that was weird for a fund(hardware)raiser, and
> > sincerely quite disturbing to me.
> >
> > (My 'attitude' - after 8 months and 70 emails they delegated the matter
> > from their main office in the US, to Australia.)
> >
> > I think with respect to IBM donations, the relevant path would be to
> > enquire directly with their CEO Ginni Rommety, e.g.
> > https://www.ibm.com/ibm/ginni/ , also with reference to the massive
> > commercial value they have from OpenSSH. Anyone below does not have the
> > power to authorize donations.
> >
> > Gina and Adithya at IBM on copy for reference. If you can forward this to
> > your CEO would be great. Your cheapest multi-CPU Power9 or Power8 device
> > should be around 2000 USD production cost max, meaning this is a 20,000 USD
> > donation request, or for 20,000 / 80,000,000,000 = 0.000,025% of your
> > annual turnover, as a marketing and goodwill thing it couldn't be cheaper.
> >
> >
> > If you have 6 to 10 devices - just any, preferably multi-CPU - to donate,
> > please ship them over and we'll likely see support happen.
> >
> > If they need to be shopped, Tyan was selling them for 2850 USD a piece
> > recently, https://web.archive.org/web/20160118065359/http://
> > www.tyan.com/campaign/openpower/index.html . Maybe we're closer to Power9
> > now.
> >
> > I like Power as it's server-grade hardware that I personally deem
> > preferable to AMD64. IBM's attitude about my hardware-raiser initiative
> > last year was execrable though.
> >
> > This email is a response to suggest a next step. I think everyone involved
> > has been personally well-intended and there was a certain sense of friction
> > in the realization that noone involved in the emails at IBM had the
> > authority to sign off on a donation.
> >
> > People like you and me are free to shop and donate.
> >
> > Mikael
> >
> > 2017-05-25 1:57 GMT+08:00 Kai Wetlesen :
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> What is the current community interest in getting OpenBSD running on the
> >> newer POWER processors? I have a number of POWER based systems at work
> >> which run various Linux flavors, but it would be nice to bring OpenBSD to
> >> these systems as we???re been trying it out in different spaces throughout
> >> our division. What would it take to get a POWER port up and kicking?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Kai
> >>
> >
> > 2017-05-25 8:42 GMT+08:00 Ax0n :
> >
> >> In summary: There are 3 people who have been quite vocal about getting a
> >> POWER port recently. None of them are developers with the knowledge or
> >> resources to port it.
> >>
> >> Big thread from late last year:
> >> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=147680858507662=2
> >>
> >> A follow-up (late December 2016):
> >> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=148246956710299=2
> >>
> >> Search link with some scattered and often-unrelated results:
> >> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=2=1=IBM+POWER=b
> >>
> >
> > 2017-01-03 14:52 GMT+08:00 Benjamin Herrenschmidt :
> > ..
> >
> >> Right, and as I mentioned, we hope to have reasonably soon much more
> >> affordable machines available as well, which will make it easier for us
> >> to sponsor community projects with HW donations.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Ben.
> >>
> >
> >

Gina/Adityha, followup on donation request re OpenPower devices Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[Mikael]

Hi IBM,

This email followup was mostly to reflect that a member of the general
public has asked for the support that a donation of OpenPower devices would
lead to.

Feel free to forward it to the person at your company who has the power to
sign off on a donation e.g. your CEO.

This is a pro bono email.

I personally think Power9/Power8 support is a useful thing and if
10x2,850USD would have been less than say 0.2% of my wealth, I'd simply
have taken this matter through a web shopping cart.

Have a good day.

Thanks!,
Mikael More

2017-05-25 13:52 GMT+08:00 Mikael :

> Hi Kai and IBM,
>
> Yes I did the attempts to contact IBM to get Power donations, as quoted by
> axon below. A guy by the name Benjamin Herrenschmidt at IBM used the word
> 'execrable' about me in PM, that was weird for a fund(hardware)raiser, and
> sincerely quite disturbing to me.
>
> (My 'attitude' - after 8 months and 70 emails they delegated the matter
> from their main office in the US, to Australia.)
>
> I think with respect to IBM donations, the relevant path would be to
> enquire directly with their CEO Ginni Rommety, e.g.
> https://www.ibm.com/ibm/ginni/ , also with reference to the massive
> commercial value they have from OpenSSH. Anyone below does not have the
> power to authorize donations.
>
> Gina and Adithya at IBM on copy for reference. If you can forward this to
> your CEO would be great. Your cheapest multi-CPU Power9 or Power8 device
> should be around 2000 USD production cost max, meaning this is a 20,000 USD
> donation request, or for 20,000 / 80,000,000,000 = 0.000,025% of your
> annual turnover, as a marketing and goodwill thing it couldn't be cheaper.
>
>
> If you have 6 to 10 devices - just any, preferably multi-CPU - to donate,
> please ship them over and we'll likely see support happen.
>
> If they need to be shopped, Tyan was selling them for 2850 USD a piece
> recently, https://web.archive.org/web/20160118065359/http://
> www.tyan.com/campaign/openpower/index.html . Maybe we're closer to Power9
> now.
>
> I like Power as it's server-grade hardware that I personally deem
> preferable to AMD64. IBM's attitude about my hardware-raiser initiative
> last year was execrable though.
>
> This email is a response to suggest a next step. I think everyone involved
> has been personally well-intended and there was a certain sense of friction
> in the realization that noone involved in the emails at IBM had the
> authority to sign off on a donation.
>
> People like you and me are free to shop and donate.
>
> Mikael
>
> 2017-05-25 1:57 GMT+08:00 Kai Wetlesen :
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> What is the current community interest in getting OpenBSD running on the
>> newer POWER processors? I have a number of POWER based systems at work
>> which run various Linux flavors, but it would be nice to bring OpenBSD to
>> these systems as we’re been trying it out in different spaces throughout
>> our division. What would it take to get a POWER port up and kicking?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kai
>>
>
> 2017-05-25 8:42 GMT+08:00 Ax0n :
>
>> In summary: There are 3 people who have been quite vocal about getting a
>> POWER port recently. None of them are developers with the knowledge or
>> resources to port it.
>>
>> Big thread from late last year:
>> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=147680858507662=2
>>
>> A follow-up (late December 2016):
>> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=148246956710299=2
>>
>> Search link with some scattered and often-unrelated results:
>> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=2=1=IBM+POWER=b
>>
>
> 2017-01-03 14:52 GMT+08:00 Benjamin Herrenschmidt :
> ..
>
>> Right, and as I mentioned, we hope to have reasonably soon much more
>> affordable machines available as well, which will make it easier for us
>> to sponsor community projects with HW donations.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ben.
>>
>
>

Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[Mikael]

Hi Kai and IBM,

Yes I did the attempts to contact IBM to get Power donations, as quoted by
axon below. A guy by the name Benjamin Herrenschmidt at IBM used the word
'execrable' about me in PM, that was weird for a fund(hardware)raiser, and
sincerely quite disturbing to me.

(My 'attitude' - after 8 months and 70 emails they delegated the matter
from their main office in the US, to Australia.)

I think with respect to IBM donations, the relevant path would be to
enquire directly with their CEO Ginni Rommety, e.g.
https://www.ibm.com/ibm/ginni/ , also with reference to the massive
commercial value they have from OpenSSH. Anyone below does not have the
power to authorize donations.

Gina and Adithya at IBM on copy for reference. If you can forward this to
your CEO would be great. Your cheapest multi-CPU Power9 or Power8 device
should be around 2000 USD production cost max, meaning this is a 20,000 USD
donation request, or for 20,000 / 80,000,000,000 = 0.000,025% of your
annual turnover, as a marketing and goodwill thing it couldn't be cheaper.


If you have 6 to 10 devices - just any, preferably multi-CPU - to donate,
please ship them over and we'll likely see support happen.

If they need to be shopped, Tyan was selling them for 2850 USD a piece
recently, https://web.archive.org/web/20160118065359/http://
www.tyan.com/campaign/openpower/index.html . Maybe we're closer to Power9
now.

I like Power as it's server-grade hardware that I personally deem
preferable to AMD64. IBM's attitude about my hardware-raiser initiative
last year was execrable though.

This email is a response to suggest a next step. I think everyone involved
has been personally well-intended and there was a certain sense of friction
in the realization that noone involved in the emails at IBM had the
authority to sign off on a donation.

People like you and me are free to shop and donate.

Mikael

2017-05-25 1:57 GMT+08:00 Kai Wetlesen :

> Hi all,
>
> What is the current community interest in getting OpenBSD running on the
> newer POWER processors? I have a number of POWER based systems at work
> which run various Linux flavors, but it would be nice to bring OpenBSD to
> these systems as we’re been trying it out in different spaces throughout
> our division. What would it take to get a POWER port up and kicking?
>
> Regards,
> Kai
>

2017-05-25 8:42 GMT+08:00 Ax0n :

> In summary: There are 3 people who have been quite vocal about getting a
> POWER port recently. None of them are developers with the knowledge or
> resources to port it.
>
> Big thread from late last year:
> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=147680858507662=2
>
> A follow-up (late December 2016):
> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=148246956710299=2
>
> Search link with some scattered and often-unrelated results:
> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=2=1=IBM+POWER=b
>

2017-01-03 14:52 GMT+08:00 Benjamin Herrenschmidt :
..

> Right, and as I mentioned, we hope to have reasonably soon much more
> affordable machines available as well, which will make it easier for us
> to sponsor community projects with HW donations.
>
> Cheers,
> Ben.
>

Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[Chris Cappuccio]

Kai Wetlesen [kwetle...@mac.com] wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> What is the current community interest in getting OpenBSD running on the 
> newer POWER processors? I have a number of POWER based systems at work which 
> run various Linux flavors, but it would be nice to bring OpenBSD to these 
> systems as we???re been trying it out in different spaces throughout our 
> division. What would it take to get a POWER port up and kicking?
> 

OpenBSD is moving ahead on armv7, arm64, and mips64 (loongson, octeon, sgi) as 
viable alternatives to i386/amd64. Other platforms are not well supported 
usually due to lack of available hardware and, therefore, developer interest.

If you want to make it happen, hardware is needed. At a minimum, you need 
capable machines in the hands of several interested developers. That's the bare 
minimum. A code base with basic driver support, like macppc, socppc or peagsus 
is a major kick-starter, too. But those are old enough that they may not be 
very helpful with a non-Apple 64-bit PPC machine.

Since there is little interest in this platform overall (from what I can tell), 
it would require a miracle for this to happen right now.

Chris

Re: Interest in POWER platform?

[Ax0n]

In summary: There are 3 people who have been quite vocal about getting a
POWER port recently. None of them are developers with the knowledge or
resources to port it.

Big thread from late last year:
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=147680858507662=2

A follow-up (late December 2016):
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=148246956710299=2

Search link with some scattered and often-unrelated results:
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc=2=1=IBM+POWER=b

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Kai Wetlesen  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> What is the current community interest in getting OpenBSD running on the
> newer POWER processors? I have a number of POWER based systems at work
> which run various Linux flavors, but it would be nice to bring OpenBSD to
> these systems as we’re been trying it out in different spaces throughout
> our division. What would it take to get a POWER port up and kicking?
>
> Regards,
> Kai
>