Re: SETTLED - Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Hi Richard, Richard P. Koett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm coming in rather late on this discussion - just curious about the formatting step? Presumably you would do something like: $ fdformat fd0 Yes exactly, but the low level formatting was not the question. But thanks for answering anyway! I've had so many f*cking problems with floppy disks over the years I wouldn't trust using one without a successful format first. Well, I can sing you a song of broken filesystems on floppies, too. Perhaps I should also make it a habit to always fdformat first... Cheers, Michael
Re: SETTLED - Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Hello, I haven't had any problems with fdformat and easy to use. Best regards, rogern John 3:16 From: Michael Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: SETTLED - Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:57:58 +0200 Hi Richard, Richard P. Koett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm coming in rather late on this discussion - just curious about the formatting step? Presumably you would do something like: $ fdformat fd0 Yes exactly, but the low level formatting was not the question. But thanks for answering anyway! I've had so many f*cking problems with floppy disks over the years I wouldn't trust using one without a successful format first. Well, I can sing you a song of broken filesystems on floppies, too. Perhaps I should also make it a habit to always fdformat first... Cheers, Michael http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Michael Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well yes, it is working. But still: The floppy does have a disklabel which does only have partition c by default. And it seems strange to me, that I should create a filesystem on a partition c. And even stranger, this file system can afterwards be accessed through partition a which does not even show up in the disklabel. That's normal. c is always the whole disk, and because the disk has no disklabel and no partition table, it's also a. It's the same like with CD-ROMs. You can access them also as cd0a and cd0c. What puzzles me even more is the fact, that in the boot Absolute OpenBSD by Michael W. Lucas, it is said on page 310, that FFS file systems need a valid partition table on every disk and then the author desribes the following steps: # disklabel -w /dev/rfd0c floppy # newfs /dev/rfd0c I don't see any sense for a partition table and / or disklabel on a floppy disk. -- Jonathan
SETTLED - Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Hi Jonathan,
I finally found a satisfactory answer from the sources. See below.
Jonathan Schleifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
c is always the whole disk and because the
disk has no disklabel and no partition table, it's also a.
Well, the floppy _does_ have a disklabel. By default, it only has
partition c. The disklabel is thus simply empty.
It's the same like with
CD-ROMs. You can access them also as cd0a and cd0c.
But cd-roms have a disklabel with c and a - please do a
disklabel cd0 with a CD inserted! So it still seems strange
to me that you can mount partition a where there is no
partition a and you can't do a newfs fd0a...
I don't see any sense for a partition table and / or disklabel on a
floppy disk.
But why would there be the floppy types in /etc/disktab?
As mentioned before the floppy3 type creates partition a
and partition b.
Even more interestingly, I found an answer that satisfies me:
The OpenBSD developers' preferred way can be seen in the
Makefile for the creation of the distribution boot-floppy images:
from /usr/src/distrib/i386/common/Makefile.inc :
VND?= svnd0
VND_DEV=/dev/${VND}a
VND_RDEV= /dev/r${VND}a
VND_CRDEV= /dev/r${VND}c
FLOPPYSIZE?=144
FLOPPYTYPE?=floppy3
...
${FS}: bsd.gz
...
disklabel -w -r ${VND} ${FLOPPYTYPE}
newfs -m 0 -o space -i 524288 -c 80 ${VND_RDEV}
So the short answer is:
$ disklabel -w fd0 floppy
$ newfs fd0a
$ mount /dev/fd0a /mnt
Thanks to all for your replies!
Michael
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Hi JCR, J.C. Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I can tell, you basically asked for the right or preferred way of putting a filesystem onto a floppy Yes, that is exactly my question. The best answer I know is fdformat. It works. It's simple and it's the most commonly accepted way to do what you asked. Please put me straight if I am mistaken, but for all I know, fdformat does not create any filesystem on a floppy *at all*! It does a low level format of the floppy i.e. organize the raw data space into cylinders, heads and sectors, etc. If you happen to have a filesystem on a floppy after doing fdformat, then I am really puzzled. The OpenBSD-FAQ-Section you seem to be referring to must be the installation section 4.3.1 - Creating floppies on Unix but there, after preparing the floppy with fdformat, a filesystem is put onto it with dd if=floppy37.fs of=/dev/rfd0c bs=32k. Michael
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Michael Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, as I wrote above, I know about the fdformat program, and low level formatting is actually not what my question was aimed at -- it was aimed at the disklabel / filesystem level of formatting. But this may have got lost in my overly long email. :-) Also, the question was not how to get the job of putting a filesystem onto a floppy accomplished at all, but which is the right or preferred way to do so (since there are, as I pointed out several possible ways). I already answered that before: Jonathan Schleifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Floppies usually don't have a partition table nor a disk label, so just newfs fd0c and you should be fine. You also heart this from others. So it's not that your main question got lost ;). -- Jonathan
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Jonathan Schleifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which is the right or preferred way to do so (since there are, as I pointed out several possible ways). I already answered that before: Jonathan Schleifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Floppies usually don't have a partition table nor a disk label, so just newfs fd0c and you should be fine. Well yes, it is working. But still: The floppy does have a disklabel which does only have partition c by default. And it seems strange to me, that I should create a filesystem on a partition c. And even stranger, this file system can afterwards be accessed through partition a which does not even show up in the disklabel. What puzzles me even more is the fact, that in the boot Absolute OpenBSD by Michael W. Lucas, it is said on page 310, that FFS file systems need a valid partition table on every disk and then the author desribes the following steps: # disklabel -w /dev/rfd0c floppy # newfs /dev/rfd0c which yields a disklabel with overlapping partitions, and disklabel -E fd0 tells me that the disklabel has an error an offers me to disable one partition or the other... These are the reasons why I was not completely content with your short an simple answer. (I do favor simple solutions, of course!) You also heart this from others. So it's not that your main question got lost ;). Not on your side anyway... ;-) Cheers, Michael
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Hello! On Wed, Aug 24, 2005 at 07:57:55AM -0700, Spruell, Darren-Perot wrote: [...] Is there any reason to use FFS on a floppy? Won't FAT (-12, or whatever) work fine? Could you just mformat it and be along? Of course there is. Just take a look at the boot floppies, for example. Or think of the floppy image I used for that mini bridge hack... Or if you want to use features FAT doesn't offer, like owners/permissions/255 char filenames. But I guess for many purposes, mformat and either mtools or mount_msdosfs will be enough. Kind regards, Hannah.
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Spruell, Darren-Perot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any reason to use FFS on a floppy? Won't FAT (-12, or whatever) work fine? Could you just mformat it and be along? Yes, in fact there are: 1. As a matter of principle. 2. I need the FFS file permissions and ownerships on the floppy. Michael
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:13:08 +0200, Michael Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan Schleifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which is the right or preferred way to do so (since there are, as I pointed out several possible ways). I already answered that before: Jonathan Schleifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Floppies usually don't have a partition table nor a disk label, so just newfs fd0c and you should be fine. Well yes, it is working. But still: The floppy does have a disklabel which does only have partition c by default. And it seems strange to me, that I should create a filesystem on a partition c. And even stranger, this file system can afterwards be accessed through partition a which does not even show up in the disklabel. What puzzles me even more is the fact, that in the boot Absolute OpenBSD by Michael W. Lucas, it is said on page 310, that FFS file systems need a valid partition table on every disk and then the author desribes the following steps: # disklabel -w /dev/rfd0c floppy # newfs /dev/rfd0c which yields a disklabel with overlapping partitions, and disklabel -E fd0 tells me that the disklabel has an error an offers me to disable one partition or the other... These are the reasons why I was not completely content with your short an simple answer. (I do favor simple solutions, of course!) You also heart this from others. So it's not that your main question got lost ;). Not on your side anyway... ;-) Cheers, Michael Hi Michael, As far as I can tell, you basically asked for the right or preferred way of putting a filesystem onto a floppy The best answer I know is fdformat. It works. It's simple and it's the most commonly accepted way to do what you asked. If by chance you are asking a different question, then unfortunately no one on the list is actually understanding what you really want. JCR
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Floppies usually don't have a partition table nor a disk label, so just newfs fd0c and you should be fine. -- Jonathan
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
On Tuesday 23 August 2005 10:58, Michael Adam wrote: Hi, I could not tell from the documentation which is the proper way to setup and use floppy disks on the i386 architecture, i.e. which is the right partition to use. I am talking about the standard 3.5 inch 1.44 MB floppy disks. There are several possibilities to put a file system onto one: First of all, a floppy needs to be low level formatted, which can be achieved by the fdformat program. (Ususally, this is not necessary nowadays, since floppies come preformatted.) Then fdisk shows an empty partition table. Without adding a type a6 partition, I have a valid disklabel: 16 partitions: # size offset fstype[fsize bsize cpg] c: 2880 0 unused00 # Cyl 0 -79 I can then do a newfs fd0c and afterwards the disklabel looks as follows: 16 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize cpg] c: 2880 0 4.2BSD 2048 16384 80 # Cyl 0 -79 And I can mount /dev/fd0c. But _strangely_, I can mount /dev/fd0a as well! (But I can't do newfs fd0a ...) The other way would be to add a proper partition to the disklabel: Either by doing disklabel -w fd0 floppy3 or by interactively adding a partition a that covers the whole disk. The first command yields a disklabel like this: 16 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize cpg] a: 2880 0 4.2BSD 5124096 80 # Cyl 0 -79 b: 2880 0 unused 0 0 # Cyl 0 - 79 c: 2880 0 unused 0 0 # Cyl 0 - 79 The second command's disklabel does not have the b partition. Then, doing newfs fd0a or newfs fd0c yields a filesystem I can mount as /dev/fd0a or /dev/fd0c in either case. The command newfs fd0c changes the disklabel to the following form though: 16 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize cpg] a: 2880 0 4.2BSD 5124096 80 # Cyl 0 -79 b: 2880 0 unused 0 0 # Cyl 0 - 79 c: 2880 0 unused 2048 16384 80 # Cyl 0 -79 which should actually be invalid since a and c overlap. Anyway, it works and both partitions can be used. Well, I am a little confused and would like to know which is the proper way of handling this. I think that the proper way is to add an use partition a, but I have seen usage of partition c in several documentations on the web, so this is why I ask. Thanks in advance! Michael I would avoid all this and use the 'mtools' package instead. It deals with msdos fat-12(?) floppies, and is tons easier to use. Then you can hand those floppies to others and they can read/write them. --STeve Andre'
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:58:47 +0200, Michael Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I could not tell from the documentation which is the proper way to setup and use floppy disks on the i386 architecture, i.e. which is the right partition to use. I am talking about the standard 3.5 inch 1.44 MB floppy disks. There are several possibilities to put a file system onto one: First of all, a floppy needs to be low level formatted, which can be achieved by the fdformat program. (Ususally, this is not necessary nowadays, since floppies come preformatted.) Then fdisk shows an empty partition table. Without adding a type a6 partition, I have a valid disklabel: 16 partitions: # size offset fstype[fsize bsize cpg] c: 2880 0 unused00 # Cyl 0 -79 I can then do a newfs fd0c and afterwards the disklabel looks as follows: 16 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize cpg] c: 2880 0 4.2BSD 2048 16384 80 # Cyl 0 -79 And I can mount /dev/fd0c. But _strangely_, I can mount /dev/fd0a as well! (But I can't do newfs fd0a ...) The other way would be to add a proper partition to the disklabel: Either by doing disklabel -w fd0 floppy3 or by interactively adding a partition a that covers the whole disk. The first command yields a disklabel like this: 16 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize cpg] a: 2880 0 4.2BSD 5124096 80 # Cyl 0 -79 b: 2880 0 unused 0 0 # Cyl 0 -79 c: 2880 0 unused 0 0 # Cyl 0 -79 The second command's disklabel does not have the b partition. Then, doing newfs fd0a or newfs fd0c yields a filesystem I can mount as /dev/fd0a or /dev/fd0c in either case. The command newfs fd0c changes the disklabel to the following form though: 16 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize cpg] a: 2880 0 4.2BSD 5124096 80 # Cyl 0 -79 b: 2880 0 unused 0 0 # Cyl 0 -79 c: 2880 0 unused 2048 16384 80 # Cyl 0 -79 which should actually be invalid since a and c overlap. Anyway, it works and both partitions can be used. Well, I am a little confused and would like to know which is the proper way of handling this. I think that the proper way is to add an use partition a, but I have seen usage of partition c in several documentations on the web, so this is why I ask. Thanks in advance! Michael Actually, it's in the FAQ under installation so it's not exactly listed as a FAQ item per se. $ fdformat /dev/rfd0c JCR
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Hi Steve, On 8/23/05, STeve Andre' wrote: I would avoid all this and use the 'mtools' package instead. It deals with msdos fat-12(?) floppies, and is tons easier to use. Then you can hand those floppies to others and they can read/write them. Using fat on the floppy is not an option. I need ffs. Also I don't complain that it is too complicated, but there are several working ways, and I am asking which one is the proper or preferred way. Thanks anyway, Michael
Re: proper way to format/use floppies (i386)
Hi, On 8/23/05, J.C. Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:58:47 +0200, Michael Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] First of all, a floppy needs to be low level formatted, which can be achieved by the fdformat program. (Ususally, this is not necessary nowadays, since floppies come preformatted.) Actually, it's in the FAQ under installation so it's not exactly listed as a FAQ item per se. $ fdformat /dev/rfd0c Well, as I wrote above, I know about the fdformat program, and low level formatting is actually not what my question was aimed at -- it was aimed at the disklabel / filesystem level of formatting. But this may have got lost in my overly long email. :-) Also, the question was not how to get the job of putting a filesystem onto a floppy accomplished at all, but which is the right or preferred way to do so (since there are, as I pointed out several possible ways). Thanks anyway, Michael
