OT: Thank you for a second to none documentation in OpenBSD!!!
Hi, I just wanted to take a moment to give you guys thanks big time! I guess I have been spoiled for the last 2+ decades using OpenBSD and always find what I need in the man pages and rarely needed to search the web for additional info. Even for a noob trying OpenBSD I realize how easy it is and how much the docs provide what's needed and even the FAQ are very useful and get get anyone form nothing to a full system quickly just by some right to the point reading! Now how this come may be as a surprise, well in all fairness I have been trying on/off to test NixOS, sure I have to also come clean and say the last time I touch Linux was more then 20 years ago. So things changes and when I discover OpenBSD, I never looked back. I run my businesses with it and it always been loyal to me big time! Where people say, well it not as fast then Linux, or what not, I say, I don't care I put more systems in place and it does the job. It's easier for me that way and it just work! But now that I am really trying to give a fair shut to NixOS, not a bad system sure, but the DOCS SUCK!!! Try to find something gin the man page on the local system well good luck. Try to find how to configure things the way you want good luck. Sure there is docs, don't get me wrong, but it is useful for the one that really don't need them! May be it's just me and I will admit, I have VERY HIGH expectation from docs as that's what I am used too and I just realize that I have been spoiled big time and for this I really needed to say it and thanks needed to be given. Many many thanks for the great work done not only on the system, but the docs as well! Like the say is, you never know what you had until you loose it! Docs in OpenBSD is incredibly well done. And as it's been said in the project, if there is mistake in the docs, it's consider a bug, then if I apply that to NixOS, it is so full of bugs that it is sad... Sure after I get use to it and play with it for a year may be I will fell comfortable again, but the point here is that, docs in OpenBSD doesn't need for you to invest years and spend weeks full time to get to a point that is good. Sure I am not so young anymore so I guess I don't learn as fast as i used to, but man the system is so clean and docs are so good, that trying something new makes it painful! Thank you guys! You did such a wonderful work over the years, you may not realise how different and beautiful it is or may be you know it. I just wanted to take the time to thank you all! Specially Nick, as when I started he was the one in change of the FAQ on the site and he started a work that was second to none and made me fall in love with OpenBSD then. Please just don't stop. way to many times there is winning on misc@, but know that many may be silent, but we do appreciate your work and gift to the community big time. I always loved it and new it was great here, but never realize how much better it was until I had to actually try to do the same on other systems. I have been spoiled to the point that at my age now trying something else makes me sick! Thank you a million times! Best regards, Daniel
thank you for faq..pf..ex.1 update...
this is just a huge THANK YOU message... for whatever reason, i have been "trying" to get my openbsd router working correctly for many moons... no reason to explain all of the mistaken paths i have had, but finally, between the faq at https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/example1.html and the example-directory notes, im finally able to get it working... i had also been trying to follow the openbsdrouterguide website, but had been having issues with that one too - and notice that the example given in the faq is just simpler to understand... maybe my "knowledge" has finally come up the learning curve, but i also believe the "teaching" from the documentation has again improved - so just, again, thanx... sincerely, harold f.
Re: thank you for 6.6 and bsd.rd
Roderick(hru...@gmail.com) on 2019.12.21 19:50:03 +: > > On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > for 6.5 onwards, all you had to was type > > > > sysmerge > > sysupgrade > > I read somewhere that something like this was coming for 6.6, but > I remember that I followed the instructions for upgrading from 6.5 > to 6.6, and this was to be done manually, I had to delete acording > to the instructions some files. > > Since upgrading twice a year is something like a must for OpenBSD, > this new feature is more than welcome, although manual upgrading > was never something difficult. Thanks. You should still read the upgrade guide and indeed you will have to remove some things yourself, in addition to telling you about config and command option changes. For 65 -> 66 there were instructions to remove some old (perl) manpages and old X drivers as well some include files. Nothing really problematic, the worst thing that can happen is that you read an outdated manpage or some 3rd party software will have problems because of an outdated .h file.
Re: thank you for 6.6 and bsd.rd
On Thu, 19 Dec 2019, Theo de Raadt wrote: > for 6.5 onwards, all you had to was type > > sysmerge > sysupgrade I read somewhere that something like this was coming for 6.6, but I remember that I followed the instructions for upgrading from 6.5 to 6.6, and this was to be done manually, I had to delete acording to the instructions some files. Since upgrading twice a year is something like a must for OpenBSD, this new feature is more than welcome, although manual upgrading was never something difficult. Thanks. Rod.
Re: thank you for 6.6 and bsd.rd
"Theo de Raadt" writes: > Jonathan Thornburg wrote: > >> Being able to copy the new (6.6) bsd.rd to an existing filesystem on the >> (running) old OpenBSD system, then boot that bsd.rd to install, was >> really really nice. Thank you! > > well you missed out > > for 6.5 onwards, all you had to was type > > sysmerge > sysupgrade > > for 6.6 onwards you'll only need sysupgrade I really appreciated that and I wanted to donate or buy a summer white men's medium long sleeve polo shirt with OpenBSD Cyberpunk artwork. See the store for SpaceX or ULA merchandise for an idea. The payment mechanism for making a donation isn't as easy as Wikipedia's or the Internet Archive's; and the shopping experience isn't as easy as a Shopify-like polished frontend. As a use case, I was able to navigate Core Electronics¹ to buy a Raspberry Pi 4 B with Ice Tower Cooler but failed to discover the PoE option I never knew I really, really wanted and forgot to include Ethernet cable. Thank you! ¹ https://core-electronics.com.au example of useable shopping experience by a little startup I am a happy customer of. -- VanL. 🐞
Re: thank you for 6.6 and bsd.rd
Theo de Raadt-2 wrote > Jonathan Thornburg < > jthorn4242@ > > wrote: > >> I recently reinstalled my main laptop (which was at 6.5-stable/amd64) >> with 6.6/amd64. Almost everything "just worked", and the things that >> didn't were 3rd-party stuff not from OpenBSD. A big thank-you to >> everyone! >> >> And... a specific itch-you-scratched-very-nicely I'd like to praise: >> >> For the past few years I've usually (re)installed OpenBSD by burning a >> boot DVD and then booting that. But this time I found myself with the >> combination of a broken built-in cd/dvd drive, and a computer which >> didn't >> seem to want to boot from USB even after fiddling with bios settings. >> Being able to copy the new (6.6) bsd.rd to an existing filesystem on the >> (running) old OpenBSD system, then boot that bsd.rd to install, was >> really really nice. Thank you! > > well you missed out > > for 6.5 onwards, all you had to was type > > sysmerge > sysupgrade > > for 6.6 onwards you'll only need sysupgrade If I'm not mistaken there was a big discussion some years back with some guy, Rico or something, who suggested that OpenBSD got something similar to apt from Debian. I remember everyone telling him that was a bad idea and eventually Theo asked him to shut up, and oh, now we kindda have it. Go figured, not such a bad idea after all. -- Sent from: http://openbsd-archive.7691.n7.nabble.com/openbsd-user-misc-f3.html
Re: thank you for 6.6 and bsd.rd
On 2019-12-20, "Theo de Raadt" wrote: > well you missed out > > for 6.5 onwards, all you had to was type > > sysmerge > sysupgrade I think that was intended to read syspatch sysupgrade > for 6.6 onwards you'll only need sysupgrade -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: thank you for 6.6 and bsd.rd
Jonathan Thornburg wrote: > I recently reinstalled my main laptop (which was at 6.5-stable/amd64) > with 6.6/amd64. Almost everything "just worked", and the things that > didn't were 3rd-party stuff not from OpenBSD. A big thank-you to everyone! > > And... a specific itch-you-scratched-very-nicely I'd like to praise: > > For the past few years I've usually (re)installed OpenBSD by burning a > boot DVD and then booting that. But this time I found myself with the > combination of a broken built-in cd/dvd drive, and a computer which didn't > seem to want to boot from USB even after fiddling with bios settings. > Being able to copy the new (6.6) bsd.rd to an existing filesystem on the > (running) old OpenBSD system, then boot that bsd.rd to install, was > really really nice. Thank you! well you missed out for 6.5 onwards, all you had to was type sysmerge sysupgrade for 6.6 onwards you'll only need sysupgrade
thank you for 6.6 and bsd.rd
I recently reinstalled my main laptop (which was at 6.5-stable/amd64) with 6.6/amd64. Almost everything "just worked", and the things that didn't were 3rd-party stuff not from OpenBSD. A big thank-you to everyone! And... a specific itch-you-scratched-very-nicely I'd like to praise: For the past few years I've usually (re)installed OpenBSD by burning a boot DVD and then booting that. But this time I found myself with the combination of a broken built-in cd/dvd drive, and a computer which didn't seem to want to boot from USB even after fiddling with bios settings. Being able to copy the new (6.6) bsd.rd to an existing filesystem on the (running) old OpenBSD system, then boot that bsd.rd to install, was really really nice. Thank you! -- -- "Jonathan Thornburg [remove color- to reply]" "He wakes me up every morning meowing to death because he wants to go out, and then when I open the door he stays put, undecided, and then glares at me when I put him out" -- Nathalie Loiseau (French minister for European Affairs, explaining why she named her cat "Brexit")
Thank you OpenBSD!
Because of your high security standards, my distro has adopted LibreSSL and Xenocara. In the future it plans to also adopt sndio instead of that pulse garbage. I hope OpenBSD lasts a very, long, long time, not just for this, but because you guys take security very seriously.
Re: Thank you
On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 7:54 PM, butresin wrote: On 1109 0832, Wayne Oliver wrote: Hi All, Just wanted to say thanks for the hard work, OpenBSD runs better than any other OS on my laptop. One thing that really stands out is suspend and resume, I have *never* had a Linux or Windows laptop do it properly. Obviously everything else works great, I just wanted to point this out as people have the misconception that OpenBSD is not desktop/laptop friendly. P.S. join is a great new addition too. -- Wayn0 Can we ask, what kind of laptop? Dell XPS 13" developer edition 9333
Re: Thank you
On 1109 0832, Wayne Oliver wrote: > Hi All, > > Just wanted to say thanks for the hard work, OpenBSD runs better than any > other OS on my laptop. > One thing that really stands out is suspend and resume, I have *never* had a > Linux or Windows laptop do it properly. > > Obviously everything else works great, I just wanted to point this out as > people have the misconception that OpenBSD is not desktop/laptop friendly. > > P.S. join is a great new addition too. > > -- > Wayn0 Can we ask, what kind of laptop?
Thank you
Hi All, Just wanted to say thanks for the hard work, OpenBSD runs better than any other OS on my laptop. One thing that really stands out is suspend and resume, I have *never* had a Linux or Windows laptop do it properly. Obviously everything else works great, I just wanted to point this out as people have the misconception that OpenBSD is not desktop/laptop friendly. P.S. join is a great new addition too. -- Wayn0
Thank you for the updated arm64 packages
Hi All, Just wanted to pass along my thanks for updated arm64 packages. I have very few installed, but it's nice to see this arch isn't neglected. Thanks to all the ports maintainers, who practically have full time jobs maintaining all the ports. Thanks for everyone who's donated to the project - either via currency or in the form of hardware. Keep kicking butt! -- --- inum: 883510009027723 sip: jungleboo...@sip2sip.info
Re: thank you for 6.3
Yes, I'd like to add to the general chorus of thanks. As I've mentioned several times already, I'm a chronic distro hopper, yet have upgraded all the way from OpenBSD 6.1 to 6.3 on the X230i and have experienced no problems (running -release or whatever the official name is; occasional problems with -snapshot or -current are of course to be expected), and am seriously tempted to replace Fedora on the E550. OpenBSD is definitely the cream of the BSD crop. Jeff. On 19 April 2018 at 18:02, Alfred Morgan wrote: > Yes, thank you. Let's each of us give a pizza to show our appreciation. > http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html > > -- > -alfred >
Re: thank you for 6.3
Yes, thank you. Let's each of us give a pizza to show our appreciation. http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html -- -alfred
Re: thank you for 6.3
I use block storage device with encryption just to keep my /home encrypted and mount it manually everytime I boot... On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 04:50 flipchan wrote: > Running 6.3 on x200 here aswell but with libreboot, except for libreboot > not allowing me to have full disk encryption it works like a charm > > On April 18, 2018 5:10:26 PM UTC, Scott Bonds wrote: > >Under 6.2 my laptop would hang a few hours after waking from sleep, and > > > >it was my own damn fault for running an unsupported config (Lenovo x200 > > > >+ coreboot + SeaBIOS). But after upgrading to 6.3 I haven't been able > >to > >get it to hang and I find myself back in 'it just works' land which is > >so, so nice. So nice. > > > >I don't know who to thank, and maybe the dev that fixed my issue > >wouldn't know *they* fixed it, but...thank you. > > -- > Take Care Sincerely flipchan layerprox dev > -- --- Best regards, Bogdan Kulbida CEO/CTO, Konstankino LLC <http://konstankino.com> +1.802.793.8295
Re: thank you for 6.3
Running 6.3 on x200 here aswell but with libreboot, except for libreboot not allowing me to have full disk encryption it works like a charm On April 18, 2018 5:10:26 PM UTC, Scott Bonds wrote: >Under 6.2 my laptop would hang a few hours after waking from sleep, and > >it was my own damn fault for running an unsupported config (Lenovo x200 > >+ coreboot + SeaBIOS). But after upgrading to 6.3 I haven't been able >to >get it to hang and I find myself back in 'it just works' land which is >so, so nice. So nice. > >I don't know who to thank, and maybe the dev that fixed my issue >wouldn't know *they* fixed it, but...thank you. -- Take Care Sincerely flipchan layerprox dev
Re: thank you for 6.3
Hi, I am running 6.3 on my diy PC as a desktop and it just works! Thanks from me to all openBSD developers... On 18 April 2018 19:15:02 Scott Bonds wrote: Under 6.2 my laptop would hang a few hours after waking from sleep, and it was my own damn fault for running an unsupported config (Lenovo x200 + coreboot + SeaBIOS). But after upgrading to 6.3 I haven't been able to get it to hang and I find myself back in 'it just works' land which is so, so nice. So nice. I don't know who to thank, and maybe the dev that fixed my issue wouldn't know *they* fixed it, but...thank you.
thank you for 6.3
Under 6.2 my laptop would hang a few hours after waking from sleep, and it was my own damn fault for running an unsupported config (Lenovo x200 + coreboot + SeaBIOS). But after upgrading to 6.3 I haven't been able to get it to hang and I find myself back in 'it just works' land which is so, so nice. So nice. I don't know who to thank, and maybe the dev that fixed my issue wouldn't know *they* fixed it, but...thank you.
A thank you for Scid & Stockfish
Just a note to bcallah@ to express great thanks for porting the chess applications scid and stockfish-9 to OpenBSD. I'm well chuffed. :)
Re: Please explain the pkg_check F option, thank you.
On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 07:48:34PM +, Zsolt Kantor wrote: > Thanks Sebastien, I just figured out this. Now everything is clear. > If I may propose something . . . those "Not found" items even if it is not an > error, is a little bit misleading . . . From a simple user's point of view > the pkg_check -F in normal circumstances should return cleanly. Maybe an > extra option for pkg_check in future that tells to show those "Not found" > items (by default not to show). > Nope. That's the whole point of pkg_check -F Notice that it's an option. You enabled it, you want to check the files on your machine further. There is definitely some handholding needed afterwards.
Re: Please explain the pkg_check F option, thank you.
On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 07:58:22PM +, Zsolt Kantor wrote: > > > By the way. For a simple user (I'm using OpenBSD just for fun, and learning) > it is worth to enable the weekly script, or not? > Absolutely! For "fun", check to see all of the things it does. Do you need to run it weekly? You can decide that for yourself. I always run it immediately after an install or upgrade. And I run it again after adding the packages I use. /bin/sh /etc/weekly Did you write a useful script and you forgot where you put it? locate cool_script.pl Then you can edit it or possibly want to run it securely? /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/sbin/cool_script.pl instead of evil hacker's /usr/bin/cool_script.pl that does nasty things! try echo $PATH to see what version gets run first. OpenBSD is a lot of fun and a fantastic system to learn the "right" way to do things. My advice is to read a few man pages every day for every program in the base install. Also, if you don't like reading man pages as they come up, read man mandoc and see how you can make them html or pdf, etc. Have fun! I do. Chris Bennett
Re: Please explain the pkg_check F option, thank you.
By the way. For a simple user (I'm using OpenBSD just for fun, and learning) it is worth to enable the weekly script, or not? Thanks, Zsolt
Re: Please explain the pkg_check F option, thank you.
Thanks Sebastien, I just figured out this. Now everything is clear. If I may propose something . . . those "Not found" items even if it is not an error, is a little bit misleading . . . From a simple user's point of view the pkg_check -F in normal circumstances should return cleanly. Maybe an extra option for pkg_check in future that tells to show those "Not found" items (by default not to show). On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:06 PM, Sebastien Marie wrote: On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 06:56:17PM +, Zsolt Kantor wrote: > Another question. > pkg_check -F uses pkg_locate script to locate package files, directories. > pkg_locate uses locate to do that. > Question: If I use pkg_locate bsd.rd nothing is returned, but if I use locate > bsd.rd the ramdisk kernel is returned. Why? Is pkg_locate not working > correctly? Or I'm missing something? pkg_locate uses a database populated with all files from ports (installed packages or not). locate uses a database populated with updatedb, and it contains only files installed on filesystem (it is updated weekly). so pkg_locate bsd.rd searchs if a file "bsd.rd" exists in some port (installed or not); whereas locate bsd.rd searchs if a file "bsd.rd" exists in current filesystem. -- Sebastien Marie
Re: Please explain the pkg_check F option, thank you.
On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 06:56:17PM +, Zsolt Kantor wrote: > Another question. > pkg_check -F uses pkg_locate script to locate package files, directories. > pkg_locate uses locate to do that. > Question: If I use pkg_locate bsd.rd nothing is returned, but if I use locate > bsd.rd the ramdisk kernel is returned. Why? Is pkg_locate not working > correctly? Or I'm missing something? pkg_locate uses a database populated with all files from ports (installed packages or not). locate uses a database populated with updatedb, and it contains only files installed on filesystem (it is updated weekly). so pkg_locate bsd.rd searchs if a file "bsd.rd" exists in some port (installed or not); whereas locate bsd.rd searchs if a file "bsd.rd" exists in current filesystem. -- Sebastien Marie
Re: Please explain the pkg_check F option, thank you.
Another question. pkg_check -F uses pkg_locate script to locate package files, directories. pkg_locate uses locate to do that. Question: If I use pkg_locate bsd.rd nothing is returned, but if I use locate bsd.rd the ramdisk kernel is returned. Why? Is pkg_locate not working correctly? Or I'm missing something?
Re: Please explain the pkg_check F option, thank you.
Quoting Marc Espie : On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 10:14:51PM +, Zsolt Kantor wrote: What exactly does the pkg_check -F option? If I use it, it does some filesystem check, and some "Locating unknown files". At the end I get: "Locating unknown files: ok", "Locating unknown directories: ok", and a long list of "not found" directories and files, like below. Not found: /boot /bsd /bsd.rd /bsd.sp /bsd.syspatch61 /etc/X11/xenodm/authdir . . . . Those are objects that are expected on a normal system, but that are not there, see the locate(8) dbs under /usr/lib/locate/src.db and /usr/X11R6/lib/locate/xorg.db Not having /bsd and /bsd.rd seems really strange. I am using 6.2 -current from builder.ftlcloud.ca$ sysctl kern.version kern.version=OpenBSD 6.2-current (GENERIC.MP) #6: Sun Feb 18 20:12:24 CST 2018 vi...@builder.ftlcloud.ca:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP and ran pkg_check -F Not much going on on the package build system builder.ftlcloud.ca$ w 6:53AM up 9 days, 10:40, 3 users, load averages: 0.49, 0.26, 0.11 USERTTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT vijayp0 10.0.0.1546:49AM 0 /usr/bin/perl /usr/sbin/pkg_check -F vijayp1 10.72.3.61 Tue01PM 17:16 /usr/bin/ftp -V -m -C -o /usr/ports/ vijayp2 10.0.0.1546:52AM 0 w There were no "errors" when pkg_check was run using the root account but it gave detailed information that helped me understand what was wrong with everything I am doing :) Thank you very much for pkg_check. When running pkg_check using the user account that I use to build ports, I did get the type of errors the OP mentioned. DETAILS BELOW AS ROOT builder.ftlcloud.ca# pkg_check -F Packing-list sanity: ok Direct dependencies: ok Reverse dependencies: ok Files from packages: ok --- e2fsprogs-1.42.12p4 --- /usr/local/include/et/com_err.h doesn't link to /usr/local/include/com_err.h /usr/local/man/man3/uuid_generate_random.3 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man3/uuid_generate.3 /usr/local/man/man3/uuid_generate_time.3 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man3/uuid_generate.3 /usr/local/man/man5/ext3.5 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man5/ext2.5 /usr/local/man/man5/ext4.5 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man5/ext2.5 /usr/local/man/man8/fsck.ext2.8 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man8/e2fsck.8 /usr/local/man/man8/fsck.ext3.8 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man8/e2fsck.8 /usr/local/man/man8/fsck.ext4.8 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man8/e2fsck.8 /usr/local/man/man8/fsck.ext4dev.8 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man8/e2fsck.8 /usr/local/man/man8/mkfs.ext2.8 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man8/mke2fs.8 /usr/local/man/man8/mkfs.ext3.8 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man8/mke2fs.8 /usr/local/man/man8/mkfs.ext4.8 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man8/mke2fs.8 /usr/local/man/man8/mkfs.ext4dev.8 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man8/mke2fs.8 /usr/local/sbin/findfs doesn't link to /usr/local/sbin/e2label /usr/local/sbin/fsck.ext2 doesn't link to /usr/local/sbin/e2fsck /usr/local/sbin/fsck.ext3 doesn't link to /usr/local/sbin/e2fsck /usr/local/sbin/fsck.ext4 doesn't link to /usr/local/sbin/e2fsck /usr/local/sbin/fsck.ext4dev doesn't link to /usr/local/sbin/e2fsck /usr/local/sbin/mkfs.ext2 doesn't link to /usr/local/sbin/mke2fs /usr/local/sbin/mkfs.ext3 doesn't link to /usr/local/sbin/mke2fs /usr/local/sbin/mkfs.ext4 doesn't link to /usr/local/sbin/mke2fs /usr/local/sbin/mkfs.ext4dev doesn't link to /usr/local/sbin/mke2fs /usr/local/sbin/tune2fs doesn't link to /usr/local/sbin/e2label --- g95-4.9.4p7 --- /usr/local/bin/x86_64-unknown-openbsd6.2-egfortran doesn't link to /usr/local/bin/egfortran --- gawk-4.2.0 --- /usr/local/bin/gawk-4.2.0 doesn't link to /usr/local/bin/gawk --- gcc-4.9.4p7 --- /usr/local/bin/x86_64-unknown-openbsd6.2-egcc doesn't link to /usr/local/bin/egcc /usr/local/bin/x86_64-unknown-openbsd6.2-egcc-ar doesn't link to /usr/local/bin/egcc-ar /usr/local/bin/x86_64-unknown-openbsd6.2-egcc-nm doesn't link to /usr/local/bin/egcc-nm /usr/local/bin/x86_64-unknown-openbsd6.2-egcc-ranlib doesn't link to /usr/local/bin/egcc-ranlib /usr/local/bin/x86_64-unknown-openbsd6.2-gcc-4.9.4 doesn't link to /usr/local/bin/egcc --- iodbc-3.52.12 --- /usr/local/man/man1/iodbctestw.1 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man1/iodbctest.1 --- libexecinfo-0.3p0v0 --- /usr/local/man/man3/backtrace_symbols.3 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man3/backtrace.3 /usr/local/man/man3/backtrace_symbols_fd.3 doesn't link to /usr/local/man/man3/backtrace.3 --- python-3.6.4 --- /usr/local/bin/python3.6m doesn't link to /usr/local/bin/python3.6 . . . In dbu
Re: Please explain the pkg_check F option, thank you.
On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 12:51:46PM +0100, Marc Espie wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 10:14:51PM +, Zsolt Kantor wrote:
> > What exactly does the pkg_check -F option? If I use it, it does some
> > filesystem check, and some "Locating unknown files".
> >
> > At the end I get: "Locating unknown files: ok", "Locating unknown
> > directories: ok", and a long list of "not found" directories and files,
> > like below.
> > Not found:
> > /boot
> > /bsd
> > /bsd.rd
> > /bsd.sp
> > /bsd.syspatch61
> > /etc/X11/xenodm/authdir
> > . . . .
>
> Those are objects that are expected on a normal system, but that are not
> there, see the locate(8) dbs under /usr/lib/locate/src.db and
> /usr/X11R6/lib/locate/xorg.db
>
> Not having /bsd and /bsd.rd seems really strange.
>
hum ? for me, it is the opposite.
pkg_check looks at {src,xorg}.db and PKG_DB for the list of expected
files. But these files aren't in these lists, so it reports them as "not
found" in the list of expected files.
For /bsd{,.rd} it is normal: the files don't come with usual sets but
are copied "as it".
--
Sebastien Marie
Re: Please explain the pkg_check F option, thank you.
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 10:14:51PM +, Zsolt Kantor wrote: > What exactly does the pkg_check -F option? If I use it, it does some > filesystem check, and some "Locating unknown files". > > At the end I get: "Locating unknown files: ok", "Locating unknown > directories: ok", and a long list of "not found" directories and files, like > below. > Not found: > /boot > /bsd > /bsd.rd > /bsd.sp > /bsd.syspatch61 > /etc/X11/xenodm/authdir > . . . . Those are objects that are expected on a normal system, but that are not there, see the locate(8) dbs under /usr/lib/locate/src.db and /usr/X11R6/lib/locate/xorg.db Not having /bsd and /bsd.rd seems really strange.
Please explain the pkg_check F option, thank you.
What exactly does the pkg_check -F option? If I use it, it does some filesystem check, and some "Locating unknown files". At the end I get: "Locating unknown files: ok", "Locating unknown directories: ok", and a long list of "not found" directories and files, like below. Not found: /boot /bsd /bsd.rd /bsd.sp /bsd.syspatch61 /etc/X11/xenodm/authdir . . . . At the really end I get this: Locating unknown directories: ok I don't understand what is with that list of "not found" files. In the manual page it does not say much about this option (or I don't understand much), it only states: "-F Check the filesystem for random objects.". Q1: What are those random objects? Q2: It actually checks the file system?? (like fsck) Q3: What's about that long list of not found directories and files?
Stable packages for OpenBSD 6.1 (sparc64, mips64) - thank you
Hello misc, package builders, port maintainers, I've noticed that second batch of packages for OpenBSD 6.1 arrived to mirrors. I really appreciate the time and effort you put in and I would like to thank you all. Jan
Re: thank you sthen@ [Was: Re: acme-client(1) and http_proxy]
On 2017-04-26, Marcus MERIGHI wrote:
> To keep him going I suggest:
>
> http://spacehopper.org/wishlist
>
> "Exploding the phone" is taken.
> ("Estimated delivery: 23 May 2017 - 16 Jun. 2017")
>
> We all benefit :-)
Thanks! I haven't updated that list recently so it's a bit random at the
moment :-)
thank you sthen@ [Was: Re: acme-client(1) and http_proxy]
To keep him going I suggest:
http://spacehopper.org/wishlist
"Exploding the phone" is taken.
("Estimated delivery: 23 May 2017 - 16 Jun. 2017")
We all benefit :-)
Marcus
stefan.wol...@web.de (Stefan Wollny), 2017.04.26 (Wed) 10:04 (CEST):
> Gesendet:??Mittwoch, 26. April 2017 um 06:16 Uhr
> Von:??"Predrag Punosevac"
> An:??misc@openbsd.org
> Betreff:??Re: acme-client(1) and http_proxy
> [ ... ]
> > Best,
> > Predrag
> >
> > P.S. In all my years on this mailing list I have seen nothing but the
> > most insightful, helpful, and polite answers by Mr. Stuart Henderson.
> +1
>
> > If he had labeled my post as a "Fake news :)" I would reflect on it
> > before posting again in the same thread.
> Words of wisdom here
>
> !DSPAM:590054a628014500718621!
Just a quick thank you for all and every devs of OpenBSD!
This may be obvious to some, but I just wanted to take some time to say thanks for the 6.0 release and all previous one. So many improvements in the last few releases, it is really more fun to use at each new one! Some features as simple as the auto partitioning configurable, makes maintenance and re-install from scratch for each new release so simple and quick. I only took this as an example, but don't take it as being the key feature, so many new things and improvement makes it FUN and EASY to use. And when you run your business with OpenBSD any new things that improve speed, setup time, security, reliability and all and that's a sadly very simplistic list to be honest! I just wanted to take the time to say THANK YOU! Sadly way to many troll comments, or complains on the list and definitely WAY TO LITTLE IF ANY thank you. Each new release you guys make the OS better and life of working with servers easier, faster and more secure each time! On a side note I fell sad to see my collection of DVD/CD end with 6.0 if that's the end looks like by some comments, but know some of us appreciate all the hard work and time put into making this OS the best one and easiest to use! Long live Puffy! Thanks again! Truly Daniel
Re: Just a thank you.
Ditto! On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Maurice McCarthy wrote: > On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 06:09:05PM -0700 or thereabouts, Benjamin Heath > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > This seems non-sequitur somehow, but I would simply like thank all the > > developers of OpenBSD for continuing work on the only OS that I really > > trust. I learn plenty just by lurking on this list. I also appreciate > > having a set of developers with the fortitude to entirely reject very > > flawed systems, and I like that simply because someone has to. > > > > Just thanks. > > Ben. > > > > +1. Totally agree. I have now completely abandoned linux. > > Thanks Hugely > Maurice
Re: Just a thank you.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 06:09:05PM -0700 or thereabouts, Benjamin Heath wrote: > Hi, > > This seems non-sequitur somehow, but I would simply like thank all the > developers of OpenBSD for continuing work on the only OS that I really > trust. I learn plenty just by lurking on this list. I also appreciate > having a set of developers with the fortitude to entirely reject very > flawed systems, and I like that simply because someone has to. > > Just thanks. > Ben. > +1. Totally agree. I have now completely abandoned linux. Thanks Hugely Maurice
Just a thank you.
Hi, This seems non-sequitur somehow, but I would simply like thank all the developers of OpenBSD for continuing work on the only OS that I really trust. I learn plenty just by lurking on this list. I also appreciate having a set of developers with the fortitude to entirely reject very flawed systems, and I like that simply because someone has to. Just thanks. Ben.
Re: Thank you for OpenBSD!
On Tue, Jul 01, 2014 at 11:47:58AM -0400, Daniel Villarreal wrote: > I'm a long-time GNU/Linux user, and in the past I've purchased the OpenBSD > cd set and got it to running. Then I would run into issues and put it away. > > I decided to do something different with OpenBSD 5.5 this time. I > approached it differently. I wanted to update for the SSH issue and had > issues with the CSV servers... I tried different CVS servers and had much > more success, but then would run into space issues. I tried to see if I > could alter the way OpenBSD allocates space to different partitions upon > installing... then it occurred to me to try a larger hard drive, since the > allocation is apparently based on percentage of hard drive capacity. I was > initially installing on ~160GB hard drives, I tried a 250GB hard drive next > and still ran into issues. I finally put on a 3TB hard drive and was able > to upgrade to -stable successfully. I've even managed to update w/ CVS and > upgrade multiple times. > > I'm reading the @misc mailing list again and am continually amazed at how > OpenBSD continually manages to keep genuinely improving, not throwing fads > at me, but consistently providing me a high-quality computing experience, > which is what drove me to try GNU/Linux in the first place. Even though I'm > composing this message on an old computer, it is nice to experience smooth, > trouble-free computing. > > I'm going to keep researching to see how to alter the partitioning, my > first preference would be to try to adjust the percentages of space > allocation, and failing that, then I would follow the Lucas methodology on > partitioning (pg. 78, Michael W. Lucas, "Absolute OpenBSD: Unix For The > Practical Paranoid," No Starch Press: 2003), and manually compute the > parameters. > Not much computation needed, even if you go manually: At the dislabel prompt: a (accept suggested letter) (accept suggetsed offset) xg (enter size x gigabytes, or use x%) (accept fs type) / (mount point) Repeat for other partitions. It is also perfectly possible to shrink of grow the auto allocated partitions, using the R command in disklabel. -Otto > If you're new to OpenBSD, I highly recommend the Lucas and Hansteen > Open-BSD related books. You might get the books for a more inexpensive > price elsewhere, but you help out OpenBSD by shopping for these and other > titles at http://www.openbsd.org/books.html > > As my son gets more into computing, I hope he can learn to appreciate the > commitment to excellence and integrity of the OpenBSD team. He's wanting to > get into programming. > > Many thanks to all who make OpenBSD possible. Please remember to buy your > OpenBSD cd set to support the developers. > > OpenBSD doesn't just work, it rocks, and solidly, at that! > > Sincerely, > Daniel Villarreal > somewhere in Southern Ontario, Canada > > P.S. At some point I do plan on purchasing the Peter N.M. Hansteeen's "The > Book of PF, 2nd Edition A No-Nonsense Guide to the OpenBSD Firewall" from > the OpenBSD store.
Thank you thank you thank you
# dmesg console is /virtual-devices@100/console@1 Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. Copyright (c) 1995-2014 OpenBSD. All rights reserved. http://www.OpenBSD.org OpenBSD 5.5 (GENERIC.MP) #173: Tue Mar 4 14:47:47 MST 2014 dera...@sparc64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/sparc64/compile/GENERIC.MP real mem = 17045651456 (16256MB) avail mem = 16759693312 (15983MB) mainbus0 at root: SPARC Enterprise T5220 cpu0 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu2 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu3 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu4 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu5 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu6 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu7 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu8 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu9 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu10 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu11 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu12 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu13 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu14 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu15 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu16 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu17 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu18 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu19 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu20 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu21 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu22 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu23 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu24 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu25 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu26 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu27 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu28 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu29 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu30 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz cpu31 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-T2 (rev 0.0) @ 1165.379 MHz
Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you!
On Mon, Feb 04, 2013 at 10:02:02AM +, Dennis Davis wrote: > On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, Gilles Chehade wrote: > > > From: Gilles Chehade > > To: Miod Vallat > > Cc: bofh , OpenBSD general usage list > > Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 23:12:16 > > Subject: Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you! > > > > On Sat, Feb 02, 2013 at 11:08:52PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: > > > > Don't be a tease!! What's in -current? > > > > > > Ponies. Lots of'em. > > > > folding ponies into envelopes turned out to be gross, we gave up. > > Oh, I don't know. We have no trouble folding them into our > beefburgers over here: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/15/horse-dna-found-supermarket-beefburgers > > ...yes, I know. Totally off-topic and in extremely poor taste. > I'll get my coat and leave by the first exit... horse meat is lean and better for your health than beef actually. as long as you're not a vegetarian, you ought to be able to look at your lunch in the eye before you kill and eat it.
Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you!
On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, Gilles Chehade wrote: > From: Gilles Chehade > To: Miod Vallat > Cc: bofh , OpenBSD general usage list > Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 23:12:16 > Subject: Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you! > > On Sat, Feb 02, 2013 at 11:08:52PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: > > > Don't be a tease!! What's in -current? > > > > Ponies. Lots of'em. > > folding ponies into envelopes turned out to be gross, we gave up. Oh, I don't know. We have no trouble folding them into our beefburgers over here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/15/horse-dna-found-supermarket-beefburgers ...yes, I know. Totally off-topic and in extremely poor taste. I'll get my coat and leave by the first exit... -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK d.h.da...@bath.ac.uk Phone: +44 1225 386101
Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you!
On Sat, Feb 02, 2013 at 11:08:52PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: > > Don't be a tease!! What's in -current? > > Ponies. Lots of'em. > folding ponies into envelopes turned out to be gross, we gave up. -- Gilles Chehade https://www.poolp.org @poolpOrg
Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you!
> Don't be a tease!! What's in -current? Ponies. Lots of'em.
Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you!
On Sat, Feb 02, 2013 at 06:02:45PM -0500, bofh wrote: > On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Gilles Chehade wrote: > > Oh, and if you liked what's in 5.2, you will love what's in -current ! > > Don't be a tease!! What's in -current? And I see 5.3-beta is tagged everything has been commited, you just go compare the man pages from 5.2 and -current to see what's new :-p > already... Are you talking about 5.3 or post 5.3...? :) > yes, 5.3 will ship with a very nice smtpd in my opinion -- Gilles Chehade https://www.poolp.org @poolpOrg
Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you!
Also look at: http://www.openbsd.org/plus.html -- Best regards, Loïc BLOT, UNIX systems, security and network expert http://www.unix-experience.fr Le samedi 02 février 2013 à 18:08 -0500, bofh a écrit : > On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:02 PM, bofh wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Gilles Chehade wrote: > >> Oh, and if you liked what's in 5.2, you will love what's in -current ! > > > > Don't be a tease!! What's in -current? And I see 5.3-beta is tagged > > already... Are you talking about 5.3 or post 5.3...? :) > > I'm reading http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20130130081741 > > Oh wow!
Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you!
On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:02 PM, bofh wrote: > On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Gilles Chehade wrote: >> Oh, and if you liked what's in 5.2, you will love what's in -current ! > > Don't be a tease!! What's in -current? And I see 5.3-beta is tagged > already... Are you talking about 5.3 or post 5.3...? :) I'm reading http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20130130081741 Oh wow! -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30v_g83VHK4
Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you!
On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Gilles Chehade wrote: > Oh, and if you liked what's in 5.2, you will love what's in -current ! Don't be a tease!! What's in -current? And I see 5.3-beta is tagged already... Are you talking about 5.3 or post 5.3...? :) -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30v_g83VHK4
Re: OpenSMTPD - thank you!
On Sat, Feb 02, 2013 at 05:43:53PM -0500, Joe Gidi wrote: > > [...] > > So, I'd just like to say "thanks" to the OpenBSD and OpenSMTPD devs for > making such a friendly, usable, *SANE* MTA. Keep up the great work! > You're welcome ;-) Oh, and if you liked what's in 5.2, you will love what's in -current ! -- Gilles Chehade https://www.poolp.org @poolpOrg
OpenSMTPD - thank you!
I started out this afternoon with a very simple goal: get sendmail on an OpenBSD 5.2 box to relay mail to a smarthost (preferably using TLS), so that sensorsd can send out alerts to my phone if something goes wrong. After a solid two hours of trial and error, reading man pages and READMEs, and practicing google-fu, I knew a lot more about how sendmail worked, but still couldn't get sendmail to actually *work*. Taking a break from the frustration and arcane config files, I decided to look at the man pages for smtpd and smtpd.conf. Hey, look at this, the config file is sane and readable! I don't have to run it through a macro compiler every time I make a change! Everything's documented in the man page, which actually contains an example that perfectly matches my use case! After a whopping 5 minutes of reading documentation and setting up config files, I stopped sendmail, started smtpd, thought "here goes nothing..." and fired off a test email... ... which popped up in my inbox on my phone about 10 seconds later. It worked perfectly, on the first try, after literally 5 minutes of work. So, I'd just like to say "thanks" to the OpenBSD and OpenSMTPD devs for making such a friendly, usable, *SANE* MTA. Keep up the great work! -- Joe Gidi j...@entropicblur.com "You cannot buy skill." -- Ross Seyfried
Re: Thank you
Ok then give me 1 milion $ for fund fees after that i can help you to go jail . :) > > From: Mr.Mou and Family > Sent: Tue Aug 07 19:01:09 CEST 2012 > To: > Subject: Thank you > > > Hello > > I solicit your assistance to received funds on my behalf for the assistance of the needy out there,when you respond I will give you full details of myself and funds. > Regards. > Mou and family > Cordialement Francois Pussault 3701 - 8 rue Marcel Pagnol 31100 Toulouse France +33 6 17 230 820 +33 5 34 365 269 fpussa...@contactoffice.fr
Thank you
Hello I solicit your assistance to received funds on my behalf for the assistance of the needy out there,when you respond I will give you full details of myself and funds. Regards. Mou and family
Thank you
MSNBC works now. I'm in London so this means I can see the MSNBC site. Thank you.
Re: Thank you for an awsome product...
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Peter Laufenberg wrote: > if you ssh from Windows try Bitvise Tunnelier instead of putty. If you ssh from *nix... just use ssh. Fine for individual use, problematic in bigger environment because of license/price > > -- p > >> B B Hello, And thank you for an awsome product... B B B B B B I am a novice, >>(just starting out in the linux/unix/bsd world), been a windows server guy and >>3d modeler/animator, graphic artist for the last 20 years.I was always afraid >>of unix, until recently, I purchased two sun netra x1's, a V100, & a V20z from >>ebay cheap with the hopes of learing this new world (for me anyway's) and >>setting up a inexpensive render farm. B B B Being completely new to UNIX, I >>have learned LOM on these systems, and have successfully installed openBSD on >>these systems with little trouble. I of course did my homework on google, and >>there is a great deal of information on what to do. Trial and error, but I >>have learned so much in the last couple of weeks. I can remote into these >>systems with puTTY now that the network is setup. B B B I would like to add, >>this was the only OS that installed on my SPARC IIe systems without any >>issues! I tried netBSD, freeBSD, and some other crap, and all error out before >>install starts. Solaris 11 Express installed fine, (for me a major learning >>curve) but I learned from google forums. Unfortunatley, solaris 11 finale >>release does not run on older architectures, and was removed. But I found you >>guys! B B B I just want to express my grattitude for all of your efforts, and >>when I can afford it, I will make some donations to help, (only working part >>time at the moment) I am really excited to have accesss to all of the low cost >>older servers and be able to implement them into a working secure environment! >>I love it!!! Thanks again for all of your hard work, I am sold, and will >>continue to learn this, I am not affraid of Unix anymore! >>Michael J. Summerfield >>Cocoa Florida >>Graphic Artist - 3D Modeler - 3D Content Provider >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Artists/imagetek?referral=imagetek
Re: Thank you for an awsome product...
if you ssh from Windows try Bitvise Tunnelier instead of putty. If you ssh from *nix... just use ssh. -- p > Hello, And thank you for an awsome product...I am a novice, >(just starting out in the linux/unix/bsd world), been a windows server guy and >3d modeler/animator, graphic artist for the last 20 years.I was always afraid >of unix, until recently, I purchased two sun netra x1's, a V100, & a V20z from >ebay cheap with the hopes of learing this new world (for me anyway's) and >setting up a inexpensive render farm. Being completely new to UNIX, I >have learned LOM on these systems, and have successfully installed openBSD on >these systems with little trouble. I of course did my homework on google, and >there is a great deal of information on what to do. Trial and error, but I >have learned so much in the last couple of weeks. I can remote into these >systems with puTTY now that the network is setup. I would like to add, >this was the only OS that installed on my SPARC IIe systems without any >issues! I tried netBSD, freeBSD, and some other crap, and all error out before >install starts. Solaris 11 Express installed fine, (for me a major learning >curve) but I learned from google forums. Unfortunatley, solaris 11 finale >release does not run on older architectures, and was removed. But I found you >guys! I just want to express my grattitude for all of your efforts, and >when I can afford it, I will make some donations to help, (only working part >time at the moment) I am really excited to have accesss to all of the low cost >older servers and be able to implement them into a working secure environment! >I love it!!! Thanks again for all of your hard work, I am sold, and will >continue to learn this, I am not affraid of Unix anymore! >Michael J. Summerfield >Cocoa Florida >Graphic Artist - 3D Modeler - 3D Content Provider > > > > > > http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Artists/imagetek?referral=imagetek
Thank you for an awsome product...
Hello, And thank you for an awsome product...I am a novice, (just starting out in the linux/unix/bsd world), been a windows server guy and 3d modeler/animator, graphic artist for the last 20 years.I was always afraid of unix, until recently, I purchased two sun netra x1's, a V100, & a V20z from ebay cheap with the hopes of learing this new world (for me anyway's) and setting up a inexpensive render farm. Being completely new to UNIX, I have learned LOM on these systems, and have successfully installed openBSD on these systems with little trouble. I of course did my homework on google, and there is a great deal of information on what to do. Trial and error, but I have learned so much in the last couple of weeks. I can remote into these systems with puTTY now that the network is setup. I would like to add, this was the only OS that installed on my SPARC IIe systems without any issues! I tried netBSD, freeBSD, and some other crap, and all error out before install starts. Solaris 11 Express installed fine, (for me a major learning curve) but I learned from google forums. Unfortunatley, solaris 11 finale release does not run on older architectures, and was removed. But I found you guys! I just want to express my grattitude for all of your efforts, and when I can afford it, I will make some donations to help, (only working part time at the moment) I am really excited to have accesss to all of the low cost older servers and be able to implement them into a working secure environment! I love it!!! Thanks again for all of your hard work, I am sold, and will continue to learn this, I am not affraid of Unix anymore! Michael J. Summerfield Cocoa Florida Graphic Artist - 3D Modeler - 3D Content Provider http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Artists/imagetek?referral=imagetek
Re: Thank you OpenBSD
Alan Cheng wrote: > simple & clean, is one of the reasons I like OB ~ > FUNNY ABBREVIATION ALERT ! Where I live OB is a brand of tampons, so you just made yourself sound like one of their slogans ! LOL
Re: Thank you OpenBSD
simple & clean, is one of the reasons I like OB ~ On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 12:32 AM, Eric S Pulley wrote: > I'd just like to take a moment to thank everyone involved in releases of > OpenBSD for having a nice clear and concise release schedule and version > system. It's fantastic. > > I use FreeBSD on my file-server to take advantage of ZFS and all their > convoluted versions/branches are just... a pain. > > So thank you all for keeping it simple, clean and efficient. > > -- > ESP
Thank you OpenBSD
I'd just like to take a moment to thank everyone involved in releases of OpenBSD for having a nice clear and concise release schedule and version system. It's fantastic. I use FreeBSD on my file-server to take advantage of ZFS and all their convoluted versions/branches are just... a pain. So thank you all for keeping it simple, clean and efficient. -- ESP
Re: Short thank you and gratitude note for constant OpenBSD improvements/evolutions!
Hi Daniel, Daniel Ouellet wrote on Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 03:30:47PM -0400: > No one SADLY really thank you Actually, there were quite a few mails recently saying "thank you". > YOU give us We also do it for ourselves. :) But yes, publishing code and getting feedback from people using it is necessary for making it better, and keeping good code to yourself is stupid (excepting dirty quickhacks, of course). Its usefulness isn't diminished when others use it, too. Besides, you can help to keep the project going * by buying CDs (remember, Theo is working full time on OpenBSD, and needs a salary, and without his dedication, all this would work much less smoothly, if at all), * by donating (remember, without donations, there is no way to get developers together for hackathons; many devs pay for their own travelling and hotel costs, but not all are able to do so), * and by sending patches (remeber, without people sending patches, we can't recruit new developers). > your beliefs! The groff case is not so much about beliefs as about practicability. Did you ever try to write mdoc(7) manuals for groff, working around the various bugs? It was not fun. Did you ever try to fix bugs in groff? I wasn't very successful, for sure, even though i spent some time trying to read some chunks of that code. Now we perhaps even get a chance to install manual sources because mandoc(1) is fast enough to format them on the fly, even on the slow architectures. Let's see. Simplicity, correctness, functionality and maintainability are key. And having completely free code, of course. Yours, Ingo P.S. The p2k10 hackathon in Budapest (hmm, in Pest, to be precise :) was really nice. Thanks to robert@ for a perfect organization!
Re: Short thank you and gratitude note for constant OpenBSD improvements/evolutions!
+1 Very well put Daniel On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Daniel Ouellet wrote: > Hi, > > Many things got me to want to write a quick thank you note to the devs for > a long time and as many things goes, times fly and sadly I keep putting it > off. > > But, I guess some of the very disgraceful emails one misc@ lately > including some totally off topics f*cked up one about OpenBSD being no free, > or to expensive just show how totally disconnected to this community way to > many lsers are on misc@ these days urge me to take the time and do > it! > > So, this is just a simple and quick note to thanks ALL the > "***developers***!!!" for a great OS and constantly improvements done each > day with the inclusion/improvement/addition and development of BSD license > applications included in base, as well as REMOVAL/CLEANUP of really > bulky/old one. > > No one SADLY really thank you for your TIME YOU so gracefully give to the > project and that we get the advantage and benefit to be able to use and > sadly looks like you are most of the time on the bad disgraceful receiving > end! > > YOU give us YOUR time, YOUR brain, YOUR ideas and WE get the benefit of > YOUR HARD WORK as well that YOU so willingly share so OPENLY with ALL the > community. > > Just as an example, (I only pick the latest one, so forgive me for it) but > yet still an other HUGE chunk of code was removed in the last few days > "*grof" stuff and that's not the only one so don't take it as ONLY that > please. > > But just that is yet one HUGE chunk of cleaned up code and it's amazing to > see and follow source-chan...@cvs.openbsd.org and constantly see not only > new great things constantly added, but a FANATIC attention to getting things > secure, clean and correct each day as well as REMOVAL as well of old stuff > including and not limited to old GPL stuff that clearly show YOUR total > dedication to your beliefs! > > I don't want to take more of YOUR time as there is WAY to much to be > thankful for and the list is WAY to long to put here! Even if I could, I > would for sure forget some or someone and that's the last thing I really > want to do is forget even a single developer effort and time gratfully givin > to the community like YOU do each and every day! > > THANK YOU GUYS!! > > There is no words to really express the satisfaction and gratitude for the > best OS ever made and second to none! > > I am sure you had built a thick skins over the years from comments on misc@, > but just know that NOT all users on misc@ are total loosers! > > There is more then you might know that very much appreciate your work and > gifts! Sadly it's the quiet one that really appreciate it I suppose! > > Best regards to your all and long live OpenBSD! > > Daniel > > PS: All others misc@ followers, don't forget 4.8 will be officially > release on November 1, so go get your CD and show your support as well!
Short thank you and gratitude note for constant OpenBSD improvements/evolutions!
Hi, Many things got me to want to write a quick thank you note to the devs for a long time and as many things goes, times fly and sadly I keep putting it off. But, I guess some of the very disgraceful emails one misc@ lately including some totally off topics f*cked up one about OpenBSD being no free, or to expensive just show how totally disconnected to this community way to many lsers are on misc@ these days urge me to take the time and do it! So, this is just a simple and quick note to thanks ALL the "***developers***!!!" for a great OS and constantly improvements done each day with the inclusion/improvement/addition and development of BSD license applications included in base, as well as REMOVAL/CLEANUP of really bulky/old one. No one SADLY really thank you for your TIME YOU so gracefully give to the project and that we get the advantage and benefit to be able to use and sadly looks like you are most of the time on the bad disgraceful receiving end! YOU give us YOUR time, YOUR brain, YOUR ideas and WE get the benefit of YOUR HARD WORK as well that YOU so willingly share so OPENLY with ALL the community. Just as an example, (I only pick the latest one, so forgive me for it) but yet still an other HUGE chunk of code was removed in the last few days "*grof" stuff and that's not the only one so don't take it as ONLY that please. But just that is yet one HUGE chunk of cleaned up code and it's amazing to see and follow source-chan...@cvs.openbsd.org and constantly see not only new great things constantly added, but a FANATIC attention to getting things secure, clean and correct each day as well as REMOVAL as well of old stuff including and not limited to old GPL stuff that clearly show YOUR total dedication to your beliefs! I don't want to take more of YOUR time as there is WAY to much to be thankful for and the list is WAY to long to put here! Even if I could, I would for sure forget some or someone and that's the last thing I really want to do is forget even a single developer effort and time gratfully givin to the community like YOU do each and every day! THANK YOU GUYS!! There is no words to really express the satisfaction and gratitude for the best OS ever made and second to none! I am sure you had built a thick skins over the years from comments on misc@, but just know that NOT all users on misc@ are total loosers! There is more then you might know that very much appreciate your work and gifts! Sadly it's the quiet one that really appreciate it I suppose! Best regards to your all and long live OpenBSD! Daniel PS: All others misc@ followers, don't forget 4.8 will be officially release on November 1, so go get your CD and show your support as well!
New Installer: Thank you
It's been a while since I've upgraded a box (or ran the installer for that matter) and this was the first time I used the bsd.rd kernel to do it. I'd like to give a massive thank you to all the developers who have worked on the new installer and upgrade documentation, it made upgrading a 4.4 machine to 4.7 a piece of cake. It's a really smooth process, you can see where the effort has been spent. Excellent work guys, keep it up :) Gaby. -- I'm on a horse! http://playr.co.uk/
Re: Again, OpenBSD r0x! Thank you.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 09:13:45AM +1100, Aaron Mason wrote: > Hang on... isn't ftp_proxy defined in rc.conf? It is, but I had already set ftpproxy_flags="" in rc.conf.local so users could ftp out, so I needed a second instance for inbound connections. http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/ftp.html#natserver "Note that if you want to run ftp-proxy(8) to protect an FTP server as well as allow clients to FTP out from behind the firewall that two instances of ftp-proxy will be required." If I did only need the one, I could have done a similar thing in rc.conf.local as I did in rc.local, just setting ftpproxy_flags instead of starting the additional instance. l8rZ, -- andrew - ICQ# 253198 - Jabber: and...@rraz.net BOFH excuse of the day: root rot
Re: Again, OpenBSD r0x! Thank you.
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Andrew Fresh wrote: > Setting up a new firewall, OpenBSD is making it easy. > > in /etc/pf.macros > ftp_int=$srv01 > ftp_ext=$external01 > ftp_port=21 > > in /etc/pf.conf > include "/etc/pf.macros" > ... > # NAT/Filter Rules for FTP Server (additon to above) > pass in on egress proto tcp to $ftp_ext port $ftp_port > pass out on internal proto tcp to $ftp_int port $ftp_port user proxy > > in /etc/rc.local > . /etc/pf.macros > echo -n ' ftp-proxy (internal)'; > /usr/sbin/ftp-proxy -R $ftp_int -p $ftp_port -b $ftp_ext > > Thank you! (for that and much more) > > l8rZ, > -- > andrew - ICQ# 253198 - Jabber: and...@rraz.net > > A printer consists of three main parts: >the case, the jammed paper tray and the blinking red light. > > Hang on... isn't ftp_proxy defined in rc.conf? # cat /etc/rc.conf hotplugd_flags=NO # for normal use: "" watchdogd_flags=NO # for normal use: "" ftpproxy_flags=NO # for normal use: "" hostapd_flags=NO# for normal use: "" ifstated_flags=NO # for normal use: "" relayd_flags=NO # for normal use: "" # -- Aaron Mason - Programmer, open source addict I've taken my software vows - for beta or for worse
Again, OpenBSD r0x! Thank you.
Setting up a new firewall, OpenBSD is making it easy. in /etc/pf.macros ftp_int=$srv01 ftp_ext=$external01 ftp_port=21 in /etc/pf.conf include "/etc/pf.macros" ... # NAT/Filter Rules for FTP Server (additon to above) pass in on egress proto tcp to $ftp_ext port $ftp_port pass out on internal proto tcp to $ftp_int port $ftp_port user proxy in /etc/rc.local . /etc/pf.macros echo -n ' ftp-proxy (internal)'; /usr/sbin/ftp-proxy -R $ftp_int -p $ftp_port -b $ftp_ext Thank you! (for that and much more) l8rZ, -- andrew - ICQ# 253198 - Jabber: and...@rraz.net A printer consists of three main parts: the case, the jammed paper tray and the blinking red light.
Re: Thank you for the quality of the FAQ and MAN
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:27:00PM +0200, zexel wrote: >> OpenBSD manpages are the best out there without doubt. >> A clear example of how thing should be done. >I will agree with this. As will I. After years of frustration with various Linux distributions and wireless, I'd deferred dealing with wireless in OpenBSD, which I'm now running on my two laptops. But I reached a point where I had no choice but to get wireless working with these machines. I was amazed by how quickly I was able to do so (and that includes wap), in part because the documentation is so good. In general, the emphasis on quality of code and documentation in OpenBSD (as opposed to quantity, the hallmark of the bloatware that contaminates very nearly all of the world's computers today, and that includes those running certain Linux distributions), is something much appreciated by this user. I've tried almost all of them (Windows, multiple Linux distributions since Slackware in 1993, FreeBSD) and I don't believe there is anything available today as good as OpenBSD overall. /Don Allen >-- >Best Regards >Edd Barrett
Re: Thank you for the quality of the FAQ and MAN
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 05:28:40PM +0200, Torbj?rn H. Orskaug wrote: > Speaking of outstanding documentation in the form of manual pages, why > do the preformatted GNU man pages have a right margin of ~66 characters, > while the BSD ones render nicely at about 80 characters? i think this is probably just a difference between man pages written using "man" macros (groff_man(7)) and those using "mdoc" macros (mdoc(7)). > How would I proceed to slap some "GNU" sense into the offending pages? you can do this once you become Overlord Of The Cosmoverse. jmc
Re: Thank you for the quality of the FAQ and MAN
Speaking of outstanding documentation in the form of manual pages, why do the preformatted GNU man pages have a right margin of ~66 characters, while the BSD ones render nicely at about 80 characters? How would I proceed to slap some "GNU" sense into the offending pages?
Re: Thank you for the quality of the FAQ and MAN
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 08:50:31AM +0200, Francesco Vollero wrote: > Il giorno gio, 16/07/2009 alle 22.27 +0200, zexel ha scritto: > > Jean-Frangois SIMON escribis: > > > I just would like to thank the authors of the project documentation for > > > its > > > real quality. > > > > > > > > > > > OpenBSD manpages are the best out there without doubt. > > A clear example of how thing should be done. > > > > I agree. OpenBSD, RTFM Addicted! :) > There are a number of people who have posted on this and other mailing lists that they'd like to contribute, but aren't programmers, or aren't C programmers. They are, however, admins and users, who've had to solve problems and build infrastructures utilizing OpenBSD, and have gained valuable experience and insight while doing so. This knowledge should be shared, but not in an "OMG lets make a website to hold all of this" because that ends up being someone having to put work into managing *that* instead of doing work or learning something new, which they can subsequently share, etc. For those who can't directly contribute with code, but have experience to share, writing up hows and whys of what was done to achieve a goal using OpenBSD can be useful to the community. I'm not talking about a quick howto post on your blog; I'm talking about reading the FAQ and other documentation, and using that as a yardstick for measuring whether or not what you've written is worth sharing. Just my 2 NOK.
Re: Thank you for the quality of the FAQ and MAN
Il giorno gio, 16/07/2009 alle 22.27 +0200, zexel ha scritto: > Jean-Frangois SIMON escribis: > > I just would like to thank the authors of the project documentation for its > > real quality. > > > > > > > OpenBSD manpages are the best out there without doubt. > A clear example of how thing should be done. > I agree. OpenBSD, RTFM Addicted! :)
Re: Thank you for the quality of the FAQ and MAN
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:27:00PM +0200, zexel wrote: > OpenBSD manpages are the best out there without doubt. > A clear example of how thing should be done. I will agree with this. -- Best Regards Edd Barrett (Freelance software developer / technical writer / open-source developer) http://students.dec.bmth.ac.uk/ebarrett
Re: Thank you for the quality of the FAQ and MAN
Jean-Frangois SIMON escribis: I just would like to thank the authors of the project documentation for its real quality. OpenBSD manpages are the best out there without doubt. A clear example of how thing should be done.
Thank you for the quality of the FAQ and MAN
I just would like to thank the authors of the project documentation for its real quality.
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
Hello Michael, Apologies, I guess I was irritated that my original post, with the title above and written a few weeks ago, was immediately hijacked back then and my original point was lost. Even Theo responded, not to my point but to the hijack, which was a rather ignorant question. Such is life, others wrote similar emails to my original one so it in the grand scheme of things it does not matter... Bill - William J. Chivers Lecturer in Information Technology School of DCIT Faculty of Science and Information Technology University of Newcastle---Ourimbah Campus PO Box 127, Ourimbah, NSW 2259 Australia CRICOS Provider Number: 00109J phone: +61 2 4349 4473 fax: +61 2 4349 4565 email: william.chiv...@newcastle.edu.au - >>> Michael Grigoni 05/01/09 9:55 AM >>> William Chivers wrote: > And can I ask you Michael what any of this has to do with my original > post? Look at the subject. Why not start your own thread instead of > hi-jacking someone else's? I was replying to Steve Fairhead's post of 04/12... Steve Fairhead wrote: > Slightly late in responding to this, but hey: > > Michael Grigoni wrote: > > >>>>> William Chivers wrote: > > >>> Thank you Theo and your team of developers for OpenBSD. >> I also add my thanks to the discussion. I do have a fundamental question to >> pose however... > First, let me add my thanks to Theo and the guys for the continued existence > of OpenBSD. You and your work *are* appreciated. ...which was in reply to my post of 03/30, which began as follows: Michael Grigoni wrote: > William Chivers wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Thank you Theo and your team of developers for OpenBSD. >> >> Some people responding to the "European Orders" thread seem to have lost >> sight of what OpenBSD is and who develops it. I am a bit of a newbie here >> (although I have been using computers in my career since 1972)... > > > I also add my thanks to the discussion. I do have a fundamental question > to pose however... Sorry for topic drift; I had intended to express thanks for the product and to ask some questions (and raise some points) that had been on my mind for a long time. Michael
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team,some of us appreciate you!
William Chivers wrote: And can I ask you Michael what any of this has to do with my original post? Look at the subject. Why not start your own thread instead of hi-jacking someone else's? I was replying to Steve Fairhead's post of 04/12... Steve Fairhead wrote: Slightly late in responding to this, but hey: Michael Grigoni wrote: William Chivers wrote: Thank you Theo and your team of developers for OpenBSD. I also add my thanks to the discussion. I do have a fundamental question to pose however... First, let me add my thanks to Theo and the guys for the continued existence of OpenBSD. You and your work *are* appreciated. ...which was in reply to my post of 03/30, which began as follows: Michael Grigoni wrote: William Chivers wrote: Hello, Thank you Theo and your team of developers for OpenBSD. Some people responding to the "European Orders" thread seem to have lost sight of what OpenBSD is and who develops it. I am a bit of a newbie here (although I have been using computers in my career since 1972)... I also add my thanks to the discussion. I do have a fundamental question to pose however... Sorry for topic drift; I had intended to express thanks for the product and to ask some questions (and raise some points) that had been on my mind for a long time. Michael
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team,some of us appreciate you!
And can I ask you Michael what any of this has to do with my original post? Look at the subject. Why not start your own thread instead of hi-jacking someone else's? Bill - William J. Chivers Lecturer in Information Technology School of DCIT Faculty of Science and Information Technology University of Newcastle---Ourimbah Campus PO Box 127, Ourimbah, NSW 2259 Australia CRICOS Provider Number: 00109J phone: +61 2 4349 4473 fax: +61 2 4349 4565 email: william.chiv...@newcastle.edu.au - >>> Michael Grigoni 05/01/09 3:13 AM >>> Steve Fairhead wrote: > Second, you mentioned embedded work, which is my main work area. Yes, > embedded stuff needs to be stable long-term - but the Internet isn't: > threats change, and OpenBSD evolves. A classic solution to that (which I've > used) is to simply accept that the legacy embedded stuff should not be > directly connected to the Internet, and to use a current (or at least > regularly maintained) OpenBSD machine as a gateway. Or, to put it another > way: use the right tools for the job. Hey Steve, long time no chat I've not been reading c.a.e. for awhile. I finally got Novell NFS 3.0 working, thanks to a melange of code from patches (thanks for your initial participation). I agree online threats change; my argument is for a stable core o/s, with patches made for threat mitigation and stable API and ABI and configuration within a major release number, to make life easier for small shops that can't afford to shoot at moving targets all the time. I need to run on old hardware, and reading the commits and changes scares me no end that performance issues would cripple my systems if I continually 'upgraded'. Managing threats requires resources, and it should be up to the user to understand and choose the solutions to threat management within the scope of the hardware resources available to him. Performance data is often lacking, so I take a conservative approach and backport what I need and then test for stability and performance on my hardware. This approach isn't much in evidence within obsd development, as Theo stated, it doesn't 'excite' the developers, and of course mature hardware is often no longer available to developers so support is dropped. I had argued for a 'tiered' release structure, e.g. major releases which are expected to run well on a certain class of hardware over a long term, and minor releases which address bugs and online threats. No one expects MS Windows XP to run at all on a 486/33 with 16MB RAM, but they do expect Win98SE to do so, and indeed that o/s is still a viable product to many people. Telling them they can only have 'Vista' is of benefit only to MS, which relies on forced migration increasingly as a business model. Telling folks, 'hardware is cheap, buy something newer', doesn't address the user of dedicated systems which employ certain architectural constraints but rather targets mainly members of that vast set of commodity computer users, or suggests costly upgrades in the dedicated spaces. Some time ago I had posed performance questions in the openbsd-sparc lists in hopes that I could get performance and resource data that could direct my decisions regarding 'upgrades' on older sparc architectures; replies were essentially along the lines of 'try it', which I guess in an open source environment is a fair expectation, however on a rapid-release cycle, I just cannot manage this. Having profiling data on system calls, library functions, facilities like 'pf', etc. for various architectures, updated on each release, would go a long way towards permitting an objective analysis for upgrade decisions. Certainly, when a release drops support for my hardware, that is a show stopper right there and everything else is moot. I recently ported ucos-ii to a twenty year old mcu, because for me it was the right tool for the job, and the advantages of the architecture outweighed pressures to use a newer part; layering comm stacks, interpreters and mini-guis on top of that produced a framework for a large number of projects that leveraged investment in ICE and development systems, and was the only cost-effective solution for various projects. Newer isn't always better, and in tough economic times, and even for 'green' reasons, I would argue for more attention to optimization for mature hardware. Regards, Michael
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
* Michael Grigoni [2009-04-30 21:42]: > Henning Brauer wrote: > >> * Michael Grigoni [2009-04-30 19:51]: > > >> >> we do not tend to drop support for hardware. happens for really really >> ancient stuff (>10years) from time to time, but even that seldom. > > In the context of this discussion, the hardware is about 17 years old. so put 4.5 on it. chances are high it still just works. >>> Some time ago I had posed performance questions in the openbsd-sparc lists >>> in hopes that I could get performance and resource data that could direct my >>> decisions regarding 'upgrades' on older sparc architectures; replies were >>> essentially along the lines of 'try it', which I guess in an open source >>> environment is a fair expectation, however on a rapid-release cycle, I >>> just cannot manage this. >> but you can manage backporting? hilarious. > For those facilities I require in my application, yes (kernel and pf). I don't > really want to have to reinstall an entire set of configs, utilities, > libraries > etc. to get the benefit of a single (or few) changes, when I am constrained by > filesystem sizes, media types, and the performance considerations of utilities > which got changed but had nothing to do with the changes I sought in the > kernel > or pf. oh cut the crap. just try it. openbsd version upgrades are way smoother than minor version updates for most other OSes. > In this context I don't need a general-purpose platform (like FreeBSD, etc.) > but > a very tightly-coded, lean, mean kernel for use in certain custom > applications ;) and OpenBSD 4.5 is much better in that than 3.5. > mature architecture support, etc., but again, cost is a large factor. > 'MicroBSD' > was obviously an attempt to do this publicly but sadly didn't succeed. MicroBSD was a joke. Don't get me started. banner microbsd, anyone? -- Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg & Amsterdam
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
Henning Brauer wrote: * Michael Grigoni [2009-04-30 19:51]: we do not tend to drop support for hardware. happens for really really ancient stuff (>10years) from time to time, but even that seldom. In the context of this discussion, the hardware is about 17 years old. if you spent your energy used for backporting and performance testing and whatnot on testing recent releases on your hardware you'd save a LOT of time and get a lot of goodies back in the process. I certainly would like to do so; I hope circumstances permit it in the near term for me. Some time ago I had posed performance questions in the openbsd-sparc lists in hopes that I could get performance and resource data that could direct my decisions regarding 'upgrades' on older sparc architectures; replies were essentially along the lines of 'try it', which I guess in an open source environment is a fair expectation, however on a rapid-release cycle, I just cannot manage this. but you can manage backporting? hilarious. For those facilities I require in my application, yes (kernel and pf). I don't really want to have to reinstall an entire set of configs, utilities, libraries etc. to get the benefit of a single (or few) changes, when I am constrained by filesystem sizes, media types, and the performance considerations of utilities which got changed but had nothing to do with the changes I sought in the kernel or pf. In this context I don't need a general-purpose platform (like FreeBSD, etc.) but a very tightly-coded, lean, mean kernel for use in certain custom applications ;) For the same reasons, I would strip down MS-Windows, OS/2, various SVR4, etc. and have often resorted to enhancing an RTOS for my applications. Certainly there are commercial O/Ses which offer small footprints, well-documented profiling, mature architecture support, etc., but again, cost is a large factor. 'MicroBSD' was obviously an attempt to do this publicly but sadly didn't succeed. Regards, Michael
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
* Michael Grigoni [2009-04-30 19:51]: > I agree online threats change; my argument is for a stable core o/s, with > patches made for threat mitigation and stable API and ABI and configuration > within a major release number, to make life easier for small shops that > can't afford to shoot at moving targets all the time. I need to run on > old hardware, and reading the commits and changes scares me no end that > performance issues would cripple my systems if I continually 'upgraded'. if you followed releases you would notice that APIs and even ABIs on OpenBSD are pretty damn stable. Exceptions exist, of course, but they are kinda rare. And as for performance... you'd notice old machines do not suddenly get slower over time. In a 10 year's scope, perhaps, when we accept more memory usage for performance, but not really on shorter terms. > Managing threats requires resources, and it should be up to the user to > understand and choose the solutions to threat management within the scope > of the hardware resources available to him. Performance data is often > lacking, so I take a conservative approach and backport what I need > and then test for stability and performance on my hardware. This approach > isn't much in evidence within obsd development, as Theo stated, it > doesn't 'excite' the developers, and of course mature hardware is often > no longer available to developers so support is dropped. we do not tend to drop support for hardware. happens for really really ancient stuff (>10years) from time to time, but even that seldom. if you spent your energy used for backporting and performance testing and whatnot on testing recent releases on your hardware you'd save a LOT of time and get a lot of goodies back in the process. > I had argued for a 'tiered' release structure, e.g. major releases which > are expected to run well on a certain class of hardware over a long term, our releases do that. > and minor releases which address bugs and online threats. No one expects > MS Windows XP to run at all on a 486/33 with 16MB RAM, but they do expect but OpenBSD does. even 4.5. might run into a little trouble with 16MB RAM, but even that is doable (might require a custom kernel) > Win98SE to do so, and indeed that o/s is still a viable product to many > people. and shouldn't be. > Some time ago I had posed performance questions in the openbsd-sparc lists > in hopes that I could get performance and resource data that could direct my > decisions regarding 'upgrades' on older sparc architectures; replies were > essentially along the lines of 'try it', which I guess in an open source > environment is a fair expectation, however on a rapid-release cycle, I > just cannot manage this. but you can manage backporting? hilarious. > Having profiling data on system calls, library functions, facilities like > 'pf', etc. for various architectures, updated on each release, would go a > long way towards permitting an objective analysis for upgrade decisions. nobody is stopping you from doing this really... > Certainly, when a release drops support for my hardware, that is a show > stopper right there and everything else is moot. you keep talking about dropping hardware support. what the hell are you referring to? > Newer isn't always better, and in tough economic times, and even for 'green' > reasons, I would argue for more attention to optimization for mature hardware. balony. I run OpenBSD 4.5 just fine on ancient hardware (and lots of more current hardware, of course) -- Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg & Amsterdam
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
Steve Fairhead wrote: Second, you mentioned embedded work, which is my main work area. Yes, embedded stuff needs to be stable long-term - but the Internet isn't: threats change, and OpenBSD evolves. A classic solution to that (which I've used) is to simply accept that the legacy embedded stuff should not be directly connected to the Internet, and to use a current (or at least regularly maintained) OpenBSD machine as a gateway. Or, to put it another way: use the right tools for the job. Hey Steve, long time no chat I've not been reading c.a.e. for awhile. I finally got Novell NFS 3.0 working, thanks to a melange of code from patches (thanks for your initial participation). I agree online threats change; my argument is for a stable core o/s, with patches made for threat mitigation and stable API and ABI and configuration within a major release number, to make life easier for small shops that can't afford to shoot at moving targets all the time. I need to run on old hardware, and reading the commits and changes scares me no end that performance issues would cripple my systems if I continually 'upgraded'. Managing threats requires resources, and it should be up to the user to understand and choose the solutions to threat management within the scope of the hardware resources available to him. Performance data is often lacking, so I take a conservative approach and backport what I need and then test for stability and performance on my hardware. This approach isn't much in evidence within obsd development, as Theo stated, it doesn't 'excite' the developers, and of course mature hardware is often no longer available to developers so support is dropped. I had argued for a 'tiered' release structure, e.g. major releases which are expected to run well on a certain class of hardware over a long term, and minor releases which address bugs and online threats. No one expects MS Windows XP to run at all on a 486/33 with 16MB RAM, but they do expect Win98SE to do so, and indeed that o/s is still a viable product to many people. Telling them they can only have 'Vista' is of benefit only to MS, which relies on forced migration increasingly as a business model. Telling folks, 'hardware is cheap, buy something newer', doesn't address the user of dedicated systems which employ certain architectural constraints but rather targets mainly members of that vast set of commodity computer users, or suggests costly upgrades in the dedicated spaces. Some time ago I had posed performance questions in the openbsd-sparc lists in hopes that I could get performance and resource data that could direct my decisions regarding 'upgrades' on older sparc architectures; replies were essentially along the lines of 'try it', which I guess in an open source environment is a fair expectation, however on a rapid-release cycle, I just cannot manage this. Having profiling data on system calls, library functions, facilities like 'pf', etc. for various architectures, updated on each release, would go a long way towards permitting an objective analysis for upgrade decisions. Certainly, when a release drops support for my hardware, that is a show stopper right there and everything else is moot. I recently ported ucos-ii to a twenty year old mcu, because for me it was the right tool for the job, and the advantages of the architecture outweighed pressures to use a newer part; layering comm stacks, interpreters and mini-guis on top of that produced a framework for a large number of projects that leveraged investment in ICE and development systems, and was the only cost-effective solution for various projects. Newer isn't always better, and in tough economic times, and even for 'green' reasons, I would argue for more attention to optimization for mature hardware. Regards, Michael
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:08 AM, Artur Grabowski wrote: > > Is it troll-week on m...@? > if only it could be confined to one week a year...
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
Because, you know, blind faith has such a solid track record and reputation. On 31/03/2009, David Schulz wrote: > For me, i cant even estimate the time and effort that goes into all the > related work and issues for OpenBSD, and thus am more than thankful. OpenBSD > sits in every important Corner for two Businesses i am involved in, I could > not live without it. I purchase each CD that comes out, have all the > Posters, > Shirts and Stickers there are, and will continue to get all the new Stuff > there is. Whatever Problem there is right now, while i think its a bad Idea > to just spread all this in public, ill just blindly take Theo's Side without > a doubt. Hopefully OpenBSD, the Project, can navigate this stormy Season > without harm and continue to be the best OS there is. > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:30:06PM +1100, William Chivers wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Thank you Theo and your team of developers for OpenBSD. >> >> Some people responding to the "European Orders" thread seem to have lost >> sight of what OpenBSD is and who develops it. I am a bit of a newbie here >> (although I have been using computers in my career since 1972), but it >> seems to me that OpenBSD is developed by people who donate their own time >> and expertise to the project. Theo draws an income but few others do. >> OpenBSD is given away freely because of the good grace of Theo and the >> team. If you choose to pay for CDs then this is a donation, is it not? If >> you do not want to donate, Theo allows you to download for free. >> >> Who are these people who think that they can question the motivation, >> honesty and accounting procedures of the OpenBSD team who give people free >> access to their project? Here we have a team of people donating their own >> time to make this fantastic OS available for free and people think they >> have the right to flame them? Because they donated $50? Give us all a >> break... >> >> Have you heard the proverb about not biting the hand that feeds you? Theo >> and his team give this OS to us because they choose to do so, not because >> they have to. They do not have to give it away. Do you have any idea of >> the salary Theo and the other developers could command at Microsoft, >> Intel, IBM, Sun, HP, ... God forbid. >> >> I am an academic who also runs a consultancy. I intend to start making >> heavy use of OpenBSD in my teaching and consultancy over the next year or >> two, not sooner because of various unrelated reasons. Theo, when I make my >> first dollar using OpenBSD your project will get a percentage, and the >> same for as long as I use it, and what you choose to do with the money is >> your business. You can use it to buy food, shelter and even mountain bikes >> if you wish! >> >> As I said, I am new to OpenBSD and my first purchase will be the 4.5 CDs. >> Go to town, Theo, the $50 is all yours. >> >> Please keep doing what you are doing! Many of us appreciate you and what >> your team do for us. >> >> Bill Chivers >> >> - >> William J. Chivers >> Lecturer in Information Technology >> School of DCIT >> Faculty of Science and Information Technology >> University of Newcastle---Ourimbah Campus >> PO Box 127, Ourimbah, NSW 2259 >> Australia >> CRICOS Provider Number: 00109J >> >> phone: +61 2 4349 4473 >> fax: +61 2 4349 4565 >> email: william.chiv...@newcastle.edu.au
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
Slightly late in responding to this, but hey: Michael Grigoni wrote: >> William Chivers wrote: > Thank you Theo and your team of developers for OpenBSD. > > Some people responding to the "European Orders" thread seem to have lost sight of what OpenBSD is and who develops it. I am a bit of a newbie here (although I have been using computers in my career since 1972)... < I also add my thanks to the discussion. I do have a fundamental question to pose however. It seems that opensource culture for large projects is driven by featurism and the need to make massive changes incorporated into frequent releases. I come from a background of very long-term stability requirements for APIs and ABIs, performance figures on hardware over long life-cycles and stringent documentation. I do embedded work and expect to maintain a system for decades without massive overhaul. << First, let me add my thanks to Theo and the guys for the continued existence of OpenBSD. You and your work *are* appreciated. Second, you mentioned embedded work, which is my main work area. Yes, embedded stuff needs to be stable long-term - but the Internet isn't: threats change, and OpenBSD evolves. A classic solution to that (which I've used) is to simply accept that the legacy embedded stuff should not be directly connected to the Internet, and to use a current (or at least regularly maintained) OpenBSD machine as a gateway. Or, to put it another way: use the right tools for the job. Steve -- http://www.fivetrees.com
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009, Michael Grigoni wrote: > A modular approach to an O/S would be welcome; say a major version every five > years, with an a la carte menu of features, which are subject to versioning > much like there is a 'version 3 MS-Windows', with known performance > characteristics > and resource requirements. Five years in open source is far more than five years in closed source. OpenBSD has a release every six months (as you should know). Not more, not less. Almost all open source projects do not have a _fixed_ release cycle, or even a release cycle at all, and this seems to be a tendency. -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \ mQGiBEjsKN8RBACIeANsMaUPV5vlbI0B1WGElqhLXdyR941fInJesLFUV+QlJ1Xi qsmmCa2GTiz1SQm4g0N7FxOQeW42x9Iv0kg5vjwkZ7uC1LJDZlVvoThpnk007WYK h19X+fbpQkK1kjWDd7TNiebDdvRcvVFJybSfGsqmrw/qufZ67HffLb9T2wCgx7ml LjrFFlT3+18v6wy0T169DVsD/RU8fOfPwEK4Gc/BkfCB/JjHax2TYitMn9oNylYw VdkuyFoaCEU2GmGP1/R1uT5U3TsKa0vIVBIiDTAOyZKhLgMejNyagKn4PuLcMyqo CCV7uOPCuMsEFmXNDQekLhGpWlSD3vLoqr/mO0T867qZjIuQ9An58VLcX6LSdGtG 6yV7A/0fJ4fC2+RJWLmHPKb8sgNpjByt7NjaumAGVqPPtGu9M6indImBB0HB+S3O 7vM0pf6rzfE69D9zc0ySJJ3tCo/r4TdMrx/tx6wbz/7pyfsIRbsCG+87VxqInnEP cg0zlN749NwBouPa2UTYMxXsJuv0OmX3W7EZ3vgL9lQ1BWzZn7QRRGFuaWVsIEJv bGdoZXJvbmmIYAQTEQIAIAUCSOwo3wIbAwYLCQgHAwIEFQIIAwQWAgMBAh4BAheA AAoJEP423E9NZH/MPBMAmgNfL1njMlTBhhxiDdKsd6BLlcizAKCmVIP0jDarapBp j7FUQgJ3npAvS7kBDQRI7CjfEAQAl6exFKqLkBCjr8s5XoadLpvSFE5faif5l6q6 HcfKP2FFtUfSj46cvCLVYzip78KJjxGkksS36rrrKfgHH7z+2Oem+G5drtvMWmeA 14tFvJGWHKL1WR5P1fe593aaw8CHmiQxSkENyVN+Q8FvqUoZ5tPtGqVzlPmflU5K bcJphs8AAwUD/1CyyvbvMWNDPJLqZI1TiEkg3+2Kc67CFXhoS4DYCgObjnhA7GOO BB0PXHPMhtwqIhCQA0+u2YOstreW1UT+zY3ynQbc7bnHmCdRzEmCRLSqe44+nWkY QXD5tEOuMtAjJDQm7wQxRXA9EQouz4CLxz7uhEa5MJjoGdNkIqzDc/tCiEkEGBEC AAkFAkjsKN8CGwwACgkQ/jbcT01kf8yHNQCfV+eHlKqAwdPfnM9IxGiKotVXeEYA oKr5TGPxFG04Q3QnwX4+Acu78Svu =mJV8 -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
Michael Grigoni writes: > I also add my thanks to the discussion. I do have a fundamental > question to pose however. It seems that opensource culture for > large projects is driven by featurism and the need to make massive > changes incorporated into frequent releases. I come from a > background of very long-term stability requirements for APIs and > ABIs, performance figures on hardware over long life-cycles and > stringent documentation. > [... wall of text continues ...] Is it troll-week on m...@? //art
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
David Schulz escribis: For me, i cant even estimate the time and effort that goes into all the related work and issues for OpenBSD, and thus am more than thankful. OpenBSD sits in every important Corner for two Businesses i am involved in, I could not live without it. I purchase each CD that comes out, have all the Posters, Shirts and Stickers there are, and will continue to get all the new Stuff there is. Whatever Problem there is right now, while i think its a bad Idea to just spread all this in public, ill just blindly take Theo's Side without a doubt. Hopefully OpenBSD, the Project, can navigate this stormy Season without harm and continue to be the best OS there is. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:30:06PM +1100, William Chivers wrote: Hello, Thank you Theo and your team of developers for OpenBSD. Some people responding to the "European Orders" thread seem to have lost sight of what OpenBSD is and who develops it. I am a bit of a newbie here (although I have been using computers in my career since 1972), but it seems to me that OpenBSD is developed by people who donate their own time and expertise to the project. Theo draws an income but few others do. OpenBSD is given away freely because of the good grace of Theo and the team. If you choose to pay for CDs then this is a donation, is it not? If you do not want to donate, Theo allows you to download for free. Who are these people who think that they can question the motivation, honesty and accounting procedures of the OpenBSD team who give people free access to their project? Here we have a team of people donating their own time to make this fantastic OS available for free and people think they have the right to flame them? Because they donated $50? Give us all a break... Have you heard the proverb about not biting the hand that feeds you? Theo and his team give this OS to us because they choose to do so, not because they have to. They do not have to give it away. Do you have any idea of the salary Theo and the other developers could command at Microsoft, Intel, IBM, Sun, HP, ... God forbid. I am an academic who also runs a consultancy. I intend to start making heavy use of OpenBSD in my teaching and consultancy over the next year or two, not sooner because of various unrelated reasons. Theo, when I make my first dollar using OpenBSD your project will get a percentage, and the same for as long as I use it, and what you choose to do with the money is your business. You can use it to buy food, shelter and even mountain bikes if you wish! As I said, I am new to OpenBSD and my first purchase will be the 4.5 CDs. Go to town, Theo, the $50 is all yours. Please keep doing what you are doing! Many of us appreciate you and what your team do for us. Bill Chivers - William J. Chivers Lecturer in Information Technology School of DCIT Faculty of Science and Information Technology University of Newcastle---Ourimbah Campus PO Box 127, Ourimbah, NSW 2259 Australia CRICOS Provider Number: 00109J phone: +61 2 4349 4473 fax: +61 2 4349 4565 email: william.chiv...@newcastle.edu.au +1 here
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
For me, i cant even estimate the time and effort that goes into all the related work and issues for OpenBSD, and thus am more than thankful. OpenBSD sits in every important Corner for two Businesses i am involved in, I could not live without it. I purchase each CD that comes out, have all the Posters, Shirts and Stickers there are, and will continue to get all the new Stuff there is. Whatever Problem there is right now, while i think its a bad Idea to just spread all this in public, ill just blindly take Theo's Side without a doubt. Hopefully OpenBSD, the Project, can navigate this stormy Season without harm and continue to be the best OS there is. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:30:06PM +1100, William Chivers wrote: > Hello, > > Thank you Theo and your team of developers for OpenBSD. > > Some people responding to the "European Orders" thread seem to have lost > sight of what OpenBSD is and who develops it. I am a bit of a newbie here > (although I have been using computers in my career since 1972), but it seems > to me that OpenBSD is developed by people who donate their own time and > expertise to the project. Theo draws an income but few others do. OpenBSD is > given away freely because of the good grace of Theo and the team. If you > choose to pay for CDs then this is a donation, is it not? If you do not want > to donate, Theo allows you to download for free. > > Who are these people who think that they can question the motivation, honesty > and accounting procedures of the OpenBSD team who give people free access to > their project? Here we have a team of people donating their own time to make > this fantastic OS available for free and people think they have the right to > flame them? Because they donated $50? Give us all a break... > > Have you heard the proverb about not biting the hand that feeds you? Theo and > his team give this OS to us because they choose to do so, not because they > have to. They do not have to give it away. Do you have any idea of the salary > Theo and the other developers could command at Microsoft, Intel, IBM, Sun, > HP, ... God forbid. > > I am an academic who also runs a consultancy. I intend to start making heavy > use of OpenBSD in my teaching and consultancy over the next year or two, not > sooner because of various unrelated reasons. Theo, when I make my first > dollar using OpenBSD your project will get a percentage, and the same for as > long as I use it, and what you choose to do with the money is your business. > You can use it to buy food, shelter and even mountain bikes if you wish! > > As I said, I am new to OpenBSD and my first purchase will be the 4.5 CDs. Go > to town, Theo, the $50 is all yours. > > Please keep doing what you are doing! Many of us appreciate you and what your > team do for us. > > Bill Chivers > > - > William J. Chivers > Lecturer in Information Technology > School of DCIT > Faculty of Science and Information Technology > University of Newcastle---Ourimbah Campus > PO Box 127, Ourimbah, NSW 2259 > Australia > CRICOS Provider Number: 00109J > > phone: +61 2 4349 4473 > fax: +61 2 4349 4565 > email: william.chiv...@newcastle.edu.au
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
* Michael Grigoni [2009-03-31 04:38]: > A modular approach to an O/S would be welcome; say a major version every five > years, with an a la carte menu of features, which are subject to versioning > and upgrade over that period, and maintenance of a stable set of APIs, ABIs > and configuration files over that same period. If some 'feature' package > requires a re-formulation of its APIs, then it could exist in parallel with > previous versions, and be maintained at least over the major release period. you do us allow a little time to sleep a day don't you? -- Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg & Amsterdam
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
> I also add my thanks to the discussion. I do have a fundamental question > to pose however. It seems that opensource culture for large projects > is driven by featurism and the need to make massive changes incorporated > into frequent releases. > I come from a background of very long-term > stability requirements for APIs and ABIs, performance figures on hardware > over long life-cycles and stringent documentation. Let me guess, such a background involved payment with lots of money. Sorry, but it must be said. The downside to slow-moving systems is more obvious when you sit down and compare our security reputation against long-term stability products like HPUX, or pick any other old unix vendor. Check out their packet filter, while there. Check out the advanced things you can do with their system.. like drive modern hardware. Check any other similar long life products, same story -- every time. The problem with those products with long life cycles is that they are "non-development oriented". They are closed cycle; they are dead, they are boring. The only reason they exist is to service an industry which feeds back money. The "wait until the meat falls off the bones" mentality in them is precisely what led many of us to work on these alive projects. Many of us waited decades for vendors to not fix the most obvious bugs, and eventually, we walked. There is only one way forward for legacy+new systems is to seriously step up the money and the people. Both. Not just one. So perhaps you are saying that too much life is a bad thing. I can see how there might be environments where that is true, but please keep those systems disconnected from the Internet, and nowhere near the systems that distribute power or other utilities to me. In fact, keep them away from systems that provide the power to the warehouses where my food ships through, or the aircraft I fly, or the traffic lights I drive near, or from my banks. Soon the places you can use such systems get rather small. > I do embedded work > and expect to maintain a system for decades without massive overhaul. I hope you don't hook them up to the net, because the Internet has changed substantially since 3.2 shipped. It is much more hostile because more people know how software breaks. Except you will hook them up to the net, because you think a 1-man team can keep up with this situation. Well, ok you don't believe that which is one reason why you are asking us. You can't keep up, so you wish to push the effort out to our project. We know that as a project we don't stand a CHANCE of dealing with the past and the future. And we aren't paid enough, either. > I chose obsd when it was at 3.2 for a project and have maintained it > with backports of fixes, missing functionality and other maintenance > tasks by browsing CVS and doing some original coding; I cannot afford > to change the O/S every six months to accommodate the latest release, and > if I pose questions to a list about some issue with older code, I am > usually ignored, so I am on my own. This wasn't always the case in > this business and it was expected that an O/S would have major releases > with ongoing simultaneous maintenance of previous releases for decades. Our team is small. We cannot stretch our team out to do that. There is just absolutely no business case for it; nor is it fun -- I doubt that it could be made fun. The volunteers do what they do because it is fun, sorry. > When I chose obsd, it was because of isakmpd and openssl and the bsd > heritage, as a bsd kernel was appropriate for the task (more than an > RTOS and less than the bloat of other *nix); I qualified the performance > for the chosen platform and expected that I could continue for years to > develop and refine the system, but soon discovered that I was outside of > the accepted paradigm. This is also true for other major projects (even > worse with Asterisk for example, and of course it has forked a number > of times due to various issues including dissatisfaction with the roadmap). You do realize that when you say we had isakmpd, you mean we had an IPSEC stack. You'd be stunned at the breakage we had to do to make that fit. And ipv6 caused grief again. The routing table has had to change to support the new fancy routing tables. It is all contingent. It simply is not possible to stay in the dark ages _and_ move forward. So you were running something which had just gone through *massive changes*, and yet, the minute we shipped it, we should stop that mentality, and maintain it for 5 years? Oh come on. > I need an O/S with certain core functionality designed for performance > on mature hardware, and to be expected to upgrade with each release would > only put in peril a stable system, especially when there are no published > performance benchmarks with each release (on all of the supported platforms) > to permit an analysis of the cost-benefit ratio to doing an upgrade. > Adding extra res
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
William Chivers wrote: > Hello, > > Thank you Theo and your team of developers for OpenBSD. > > Some people responding to the "European Orders" thread seem to have lost > sight of what OpenBSD is and who develops it. I am a bit of a newbie here > (although I have been using computers in my career since 1972)... I also add my thanks to the discussion. I do have a fundamental question to pose however. It seems that opensource culture for large projects is driven by featurism and the need to make massive changes incorporated into frequent releases. I come from a background of very long-term stability requirements for APIs and ABIs, performance figures on hardware over long life-cycles and stringent documentation. I do embedded work and expect to maintain a system for decades without massive overhaul. I chose obsd when it was at 3.2 for a project and have maintained it with backports of fixes, missing functionality and other maintenance tasks by browsing CVS and doing some original coding; I cannot afford to change the O/S every six months to accommodate the latest release, and if I pose questions to a list about some issue with older code, I am usually ignored, so I am on my own. This wasn't always the case in this business and it was expected that an O/S would have major releases with ongoing simultaneous maintenance of previous releases for decades. When I chose obsd, it was because of isakmpd and openssl and the bsd heritage, as a bsd kernel was appropriate for the task (more than an RTOS and less than the bloat of other *nix); I qualified the performance for the chosen platform and expected that I could continue for years to develop and refine the system, but soon discovered that I was outside of the accepted paradigm. This is also true for other major projects (even worse with Asterisk for example, and of course it has forked a number of times due to various issues including dissatisfaction with the roadmap). I need an O/S with certain core functionality designed for performance on mature hardware, and to be expected to upgrade with each release would only put in peril a stable system, especially when there are no published performance benchmarks with each release (on all of the supported platforms) to permit an analysis of the cost-benefit ratio to doing an upgrade. Adding extra resource-consuming features is another concern, and there is little data to permit a reasoned analysis on this score as well (for the majority of large opensource projects). A modular approach to an O/S would be welcome; say a major version every five years, with an a la carte menu of features, which are subject to versioning and upgrade over that period, and maintenance of a stable set of APIs, ABIs and configuration files over that same period. If some 'feature' package requires a re-formulation of its APIs, then it could exist in parallel with previous versions, and be maintained at least over the major release period. Most importantly, the specific hardware targets of a new release (and their minimum and optimal resource requirements) should be made clear so that there is no confusion about the suitability of that release. This approach seems to be rejected by the majority of contemporary opensource developers on large projects, but has historically been crucial to any commercial systems deployments. I have little reason to expect any shifts in the paradigm here, but only point out that if when major O/S products are a moving target, their adoption is far less certain and less widespread. I will continue to maintain and adapt 3.2 in the absence of reliable performance data for subsequent releases; I just wish that there was a 'version 3' obsd, much like there is a 'version 3 MS-Windows', with known performance characteristics and resource requirements. Michael
Re: European orders - Thank you Theo and your team, some of us appreciate you!
Hello, Thank you Theo and your team of developers for OpenBSD. Some people responding to the "European Orders" thread seem to have lost sight of what OpenBSD is and who develops it. I am a bit of a newbie here (although I have been using computers in my career since 1972), but it seems to me that OpenBSD is developed by people who donate their own time and expertise to the project. Theo draws an income but few others do. OpenBSD is given away freely because of the good grace of Theo and the team. If you choose to pay for CDs then this is a donation, is it not? If you do not want to donate, Theo allows you to download for free. Who are these people who think that they can question the motivation, honesty and accounting procedures of the OpenBSD team who give people free access to their project? Here we have a team of people donating their own time to make this fantastic OS available for free and people think they have the right to flame them? Because they donated $50? Give us all a break... Have you heard the proverb about not biting the hand that feeds you? Theo and his team give this OS to us because they choose to do so, not because they have to. They do not have to give it away. Do you have any idea of the salary Theo and the other developers could command at Microsoft, Intel, IBM, Sun, HP, ... God forbid. I am an academic who also runs a consultancy. I intend to start making heavy use of OpenBSD in my teaching and consultancy over the next year or two, not sooner because of various unrelated reasons. Theo, when I make my first dollar using OpenBSD your project will get a percentage, and the same for as long as I use it, and what you choose to do with the money is your business. You can use it to buy food, shelter and even mountain bikes if you wish! As I said, I am new to OpenBSD and my first purchase will be the 4.5 CDs. Go to town, Theo, the $50 is all yours. Please keep doing what you are doing! Many of us appreciate you and what your team do for us. Bill Chivers - William J. Chivers Lecturer in Information Technology School of DCIT Faculty of Science and Information Technology University of Newcastle---Ourimbah Campus PO Box 127, Ourimbah, NSW 2259 Australia CRICOS Provider Number: 00109J phone: +61 2 4349 4473 fax: +61 2 4349 4565 email: william.chiv...@newcastle.edu.au -
Re: Thank you for Relayd
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:02:26PM +0100, Martin Schr?der wrote: > 2009/1/26 uday : > > I just wanted thank the developers and contributors of Relayd. It's a > > wonderful load balancer, very well written GOOD JOB guys ! FYI, you > > saved us 75,000$ in F5 equipments. > > Surely you need a support contract? > http://www.dixongroup.net/?q=openbsd#enterprise That is no longer valid. I can still customize support contracts where a portion gets diverted to a project donation, but it's not a formal offering anymore. I need to update the website. -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net/
Re: Thank you for Relayd
2009/1/26 uday : > I just wanted thank the developers and contributors of Relayd. It's a > wonderful load balancer, very well written GOOD JOB guys ! FYI, you > saved us 75,000$ in F5 equipments. Surely you need a support contract? http://www.dixongroup.net/?q=openbsd#enterprise Best Martin
Re: Thank you for Relayd
I'm negotiating a community contribution budget for all the open source software we're using. It should be a good thing for the community. um. On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Dag Richards wrote: > I assume that your company will send say 10% of that saved cash to the > project now to ensure continued development and maintenance ? > > ;) > > > On 1/26/09 9:32 AM, uday wrote: >> >> I just wanted thank the developers and contributors of Relayd. It's a >> wonderful load balancer, very well written GOOD JOB guys ! FYI, you >> saved us 75,000$ in F5 equipments. >> >> um
Re: Thank you for Relayd
I assume that your company will send say 10% of that saved cash to the project now to ensure continued development and maintenance ? ;) On 1/26/09 9:32 AM, uday wrote: I just wanted thank the developers and contributors of Relayd. It's a wonderful load balancer, very well written GOOD JOB guys ! FYI, you saved us 75,000$ in F5 equipments. um
Re: Thank you for Relayd
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 12:32 PM, uday wrote: > I just wanted thank the developers and contributors of Relayd. It's a > wonderful load balancer, very well written GOOD JOB guys ! FYI, you > saved us 75,000$ in F5 equipments. > > um > > Why don't you donate some of that to the project!
Thank you for Relayd
I just wanted thank the developers and contributors of Relayd. It's a wonderful load balancer, very well written GOOD JOB guys ! FYI, you saved us 75,000$ in F5 equipments. um
Re: Thank you: Re: Watching the prgress of dd if=drive1 of=drive2
On Sat, 2008-02-23 at 13:46 -0800, Jon wrote: > on some learning paths here. This mailing list is awesome. Thank you. just remember that when 4.3 CD pre-release-sales are announced :) IMPORTANT: This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient (or the individual responsible for the delivery of this message to an intended recipient), please be advised that any re-use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
Thank you: Re: Watching the prgress of dd if=drive1 of=drive2
I solved the problem with (I believe it was) the first response out of the four or five I got almost immediately. I got four _separate_ completely valid solutions and this has pointed me on some learning paths here. This mailing list is awesome. Thank you.
