Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Wed, Mar 09, 2011 at 07:09:45PM +0100, marc wrote: First of all, thanks for all the feedback. (at FAQ 4.9) I still think that adding a note that rsd0 is the name of the raw character device associated to the device sd0 and that consequently you can find the correct parameter for dd in your system by adding an 'r' to the device listed in disklabel which is associated to /, would be useful to future illiterates like me. On 3/9/2011 2:04 PM, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2011-03-09, marcli...@drwx.org wrote: I also think it would be great to add msdos and ntfs support in the installation cdrom (no it's not there). msdos support *is* there on most arch. not on amd64 (OpenBSD 4.8)... I doubled checked. There are only That is the first time you mention your platform in this thread. mount_cdf9660,mount_ffs,mount_udf. ntfs support wouldn't be worth the space, considering you can't safely write files with it. Ubuntu has it irrelevant. well Ubuntu has it, and I never had problems writing files with it. if there is open source code around that works, I don't think this is irrelevant... It might provide some great inspiration... (even if it is probably hard work). -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
I appreciate your help. On 3/10/2011 1:03 AM, Eric Furman wrote: On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 19:09 +0100, marcli...@drwx.org wrote: First of all, thanks for all the feedback. (at FAQ 4.9) I still think that adding a note that rsd0 is the name of the raw character device associated to the device sd0 and that consequently you can find the correct parameter for dd in your system by adding an 'r' to the device listed in disklabel which is associated to /, would be useful to future illiterates like me. Read a book on UNIX. Seriously. Knowing the difference between raw and block devices sorta falls under the category of basic UNIX knowledge. When using a utility like dd, OpenBSD man pages assume you have basic UNIX knowledge. The man pages nor the FAQ are considered to be tutorials in the use of UNIX. I'm not trying to be a smartass. I'm trying to help you before some one is actually rude to you if you persist in this line of argument.
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On 3/10/2011 2:31 AM, Nick Holland wrote: On 03/09/11 13:09, marc wrote: First of all, thanks for all the feedback. (at FAQ 4.9) I still think that adding a note that rsd0 is the name of the raw character device associated to the device sd0 and that consequently you can find
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
(only a part of my last mail went through the net) On 3/10/2011 2:31 AM, Nick Holland wrote: On 03/09/11 13:09, marc wrote: First of all, thanks for all the feedback. (at FAQ 4.9) I still think that adding a note that rsd0 is the name of the raw character device associated to the device sd0
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
(This is the complete email... Sorry. No offense intended. I had connection problems!) On 3/10/2011 2:31 AM, Nick Holland wrote: On 03/09/11 13:09, marc wrote: First of all, thanks for all the feedback. (at FAQ 4.9) I still think that adding a note that rsd0 is the name of the raw character device associated to the device sd0 and that consequently you can find the correct parameter for dd in your system by adding an 'r' to the device listed in disklabel which is associated to /, would be useful to future illiterates like me. The most important section of 4.9 is often ignored, in spite of my putting it in the first paragraph: Multibooting is having several operating systems on one computer, and some means of selecting which OS is to boot. It is not a trivial task! If you don't understand what you are doing, you may end up deleting large amounts of data from your computer. New OpenBSD users are strongly encouraged to start with a blank hard drive on a dedicated machine, and then practice your desired configuration on a non-production system before attempting a multiboot configuration on a production machine. FAQ 14 has more information about the OpenBSD boot process. Note the 2nd, 3rd and 4th sentences. Multibooting is not for novice users. This section is not for teaching you how OpenBSD works or any of dozens of other OSs that could be multibooted with OpenBSD. It is to provide guidance for people who are very familiar with all the OSs they are planning on using on one machine. Well I'm a novice user and I did it. I just was writing here what made it possible. It might be useful to add too that I used an Ubuntu live CD to launch gparted and partition the disk to make space for openbsd before running the openbsd installer. It worked great and it seemed safe to me (libparted and gparted have code you can read). Note: Not everybody has 2 computers. Let me thank you for the tutorial too, it was helpful. Best marc
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On 3/7/2011 9:03 PM, Joachim Schipper wrote: I have no idea what you think you've been told, but: a) do NOT post private mail publicly - it's rude; Sorry. I didn't realize. b) follow the FAQ, including the 'r' in /dev/rsd0a - it works. Thanks Joachim. That's it, it works. I didn't know what rsd0a meant as fdisk and disklabel were refering to sd0a... I think it would be nice to add a little note in the docs explaining what 'r' stands for and that you should add it in front of your device name to access it while being used. I also think it would be great to add msdos and ntfs support in the installation cdrom (no it's not there). Ubuntu has it, it should be possible. openbcd looks interesting but it's a shame it's not open source... thanks everybody for your comments, best marc
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On 2011-03-09, marc li...@drwx.org wrote: I also think it would be great to add msdos and ntfs support in the installation cdrom (no it's not there). msdos support *is* there on most arch. ntfs support wouldn't be worth the space, considering you can't safely write files with it. Ubuntu has it irrelevant.
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Wed, Mar 09, 2011 at 01:01:17PM +0100, marc wrote: On 3/7/2011 9:03 PM, Joachim Schipper wrote: I have no idea what you think you've been told, but: a) do NOT post private mail publicly - it's rude; Sorry. I didn't realize. b) follow the FAQ, including the 'r' in /dev/rsd0a - it works. Thanks Joachim. That's it, it works. I didn't know what rsd0a meant as fdisk and disklabel were refering to sd0a... I think it would be nice to add a little note in the docs explaining what 'r' stands for and that you should add it in front of your device name to access it while being used. The distinction between raw character devices and block devices is very old and fundamental in Unixes. It will be hard to add that little note in all places it might be useful. The hints are there in the docs and probably in the archives to be found... dd(1): : EXAMPLES Write an OpenBSD floppy image to a floppy disk: # dd if=floppy34.fs of=/dev/rfd0c bs=32k Create an ISO-9660 image of a CD-ROM: # dd if=/dev/rcd0c of=disk.iso bs=32k disklabel(8): : diskSpecify the disk to operate on. It can be specified by its full pathname, by an abbreviated disk form, or by its disklabel UID. In its abbreviated form, the path to the device, the `r' denoting raw device, and the partition letter, can all be omitted. For example, the first IDE disk can be specified as either /dev/rwd0c, /dev/wd0c, or wd0. FAQ 14 - Disk Setup : Partition identification An OpenBSD filesystem is identified by the disk it is on, plus the file system partition on that disk. So, file systems may be identified by identifiers like sd0a (the a partition of the first sd device), wd2h (the h partition of the third wd device), or sd1c (the entire second sd device). The device files would be /dev/sd0a for the block device, /dev/rsd0a would be the device file for the raw (character) device. I also think it would be great to add msdos and ntfs support in the installation cdrom (no it's not there). Ubuntu has it, it should be possible. There is msdos filesystem support in bsd.rd: OpenBSD 4.9-beta (RAMDISK_CD) #304: Tue Feb 1 19:19:33 MST 2011 # mount -t msdos /dev/sd0i /mnt It works just fine. The mount programs in /sbin in bsd.rd are: mount_cd9660, mount_ext2fs, mount_ffs, mount_msdos and mount_udf. There is no newfs_msdos, if that is what you mean. Nevertheless msdos filesystems are preferably created from Windows. That ramdisk kernel should be the same as on an install CD. I have used mount_msdos from bsd.rd numerous times to transfer an OpenBSD boot sector to the Windows bootloader using a msdos partition on a USB flash key. You can even partition the disk from the OpenBSD installer, create the msdos filesystem from Windows, and mount it writable from OpenBSD. openbcd looks interesting but it's a shame it's not open source... thanks everybody for your comments, best marc -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 4:01 AM, marc li...@drwx.org wrote: I think it would be nice to add a little note in the docs explaining what 'r' stands for and that you should add it in front of your device name to access it while being used. See Section 14.1 of the FAQ.
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
First of all, thanks for all the feedback. (at FAQ 4.9) I still think that adding a note that rsd0 is the name of the raw character device associated to the device sd0 and that consequently you can find the correct parameter for dd in your system by adding an 'r' to the device listed in disklabel which is associated to /, would be useful to future illiterates like me. On 3/9/2011 2:04 PM, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2011-03-09, marcli...@drwx.org wrote: I also think it would be great to add msdos and ntfs support in the installation cdrom (no it's not there). msdos support *is* there on most arch. not on amd64 (OpenBSD 4.8)... I doubled checked. There are only mount_cdf9660,mount_ffs,mount_udf. ntfs support wouldn't be worth the space, considering you can't safely write files with it. Ubuntu has it irrelevant. well Ubuntu has it, and I never had problems writing files with it. if there is open source code around that works, I don't think this is irrelevant... It might provide some great inspiration... (even if it is probably hard work).
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 13:01:17 +0100, marc wrote: openbcd looks interesting but it's a shame it's not open source... Is that an alternate bcdedit or a typo meaning OpenBSD? *** NOTE *** Please DO NOT CC me. I am subscribed to the list. Mail to the sender address that does not originate at the list server is tarpitted. The reply-to: address is provided for those who feel compelled to reply off list. Thankyou. Rod/ --- This life is not the real thing. It is not even in Beta. If it was, then OpenBSD would already have a man page for it.
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On 3/9/2011 10:39 PM, Rod Whitworth wrote: On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 13:01:17 +0100, marc wrote: openbcd looks interesting but it's a shame it's not open source... Is that an alternate bcdedit or a typo meaning OpenBSD? dislexia. I meant easybcd. The FAQ (4.9, Windows 7) steps work perfectly though and they are very simple once you get the .pbr file and place it at c:\openbsd.pbr. *** NOTE *** Please DO NOT CC me. Iam subscribed to the list. Mail to the sender address that does not originate at the list server is tarpitted. The reply-to: address is provided for those who feel compelled to reply off list. Thankyou. Rod/ --- This life is not the real thing. It is not even in Beta. If it was, then OpenBSD would already have a man page for it.
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 19:09 +0100, marc li...@drwx.org wrote: First of all, thanks for all the feedback. (at FAQ 4.9) I still think that adding a note that rsd0 is the name of the raw character device associated to the device sd0 and that consequently you can find the correct parameter for dd in your system by adding an 'r' to the device listed in disklabel which is associated to /, would be useful to future illiterates like me. Read a book on UNIX. Seriously. Knowing the difference between raw and block devices sorta falls under the category of basic UNIX knowledge. When using a utility like dd, OpenBSD man pages assume you have basic UNIX knowledge. The man pages nor the FAQ are considered to be tutorials in the use of UNIX. I'm not trying to be a smartass. I'm trying to help you before some one is actually rude to you if you persist in this line of argument.
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On 03/09/11 13:09, marc wrote: First of all, thanks for all the feedback. (at FAQ 4.9) I still think that adding a note that rsd0 is the name of the raw character device associated to the device sd0 and that consequently you can find the correct parameter for dd in your system by adding an 'r' to the device listed in disklabel which is associated to /, would be useful to future illiterates like me. The most important section of 4.9 is often ignored, in spite of my putting it in the first paragraph: Multibooting is having several operating systems on one computer, and some means of selecting which OS is to boot. It is not a trivial task! If you don't understand what you are doing, you may end up deleting large amounts of data from your computer. New OpenBSD users are strongly encouraged to start with a blank hard drive on a dedicated machine, and then practice your desired configuration on a non-production system before attempting a multiboot configuration on a production machine. FAQ 14 has more information about the OpenBSD boot process. Note the 2nd, 3rd and 4th sentences. Multibooting is not for novice users. This section is not for teaching you how OpenBSD works or any of dozens of other OSs that could be multibooted with OpenBSD. It is to provide guidance for people who are very familiar with all the OSs they are planning on using on one machine. On 3/9/2011 2:04 PM, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2011-03-09, marcli...@drwx.org wrote: I also think it would be great to add msdos and ntfs support in the installation cdrom (no it's not there). msdos support *is* there on most arch. not on amd64 (OpenBSD 4.8)... I doubled checked. There are only mount_cdf9660,mount_ffs,mount_udf. ntfs support wouldn't be worth the space, considering you can't safely write files with it. Ubuntu has it irrelevant. well Ubuntu has it, and I never had problems writing files with it. if there is open source code around that works, I don't think this is irrelevant... It might provide some great inspiration... (even if it is probably hard work). Read up on licensing. open source code by the Linux definition can not be used in a system following the BSD/ISC/MIT license. http://www.openbsd.org/policy.html Nick.
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 05:22:10AM -0500, marc wrote: Dear all, I was reading through the docs on how to boot openbsd with the windows 7 boot loader so I learned I have to execute: dd if=/dev/sd0a of=openbsd.pbr bs=512 count=1 but I can't do it: * If I do it from the existing openbsd in my drive, /dev/sd0a, I get device busy. * If I boot with the cd rom neither msdos nor ntfs are available so I can't write the .pbr file to an accessible place from windows. Are you _sure_ mount -t msdos does not work from bsd.rd (the CD), since I am almost sure I have used it regularily on i386. * If I boot with the cd rom and write the .pbr file in the bsd filesystem, I can't read it from windows 7 (I couldn't find a program to mount bsd filesystems which works with windows 7). Does anybody have a solution to any of these problems or a 4th way? Thanks marc -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be. Run Windows 7/Vista. Download EasyBCD - http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1 Run it as admin, add the OpenBSD partition to the boot menu. Done! On 07/03/2011, marc li...@drwx.org wrote: Dear all, I was reading through the docs on how to boot openbsd with the windows 7 boot loader so I learned I have to execute: dd if=/dev/sd0a of=openbsd.pbr bs=512 count=1 but I can't do it: * If I do it from the existing openbsd in my drive, /dev/sd0a, I get device busy. * If I boot with the cd rom neither msdos nor ntfs are available so I can't write the .pbr file to an accessible place from windows. * If I boot with the cd rom and write the .pbr file in the bsd filesystem, I can't read it from windows 7 (I couldn't find a program to mount bsd filesystems which works with windows 7). Does anybody have a solution to any of these problems or a 4th way? Thanks marc
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:22 AM, marc li...@drwx.org wrote:
* If I do it from the existing openbsd in my drive, /dev/sd0a, I get
device busy.
It is not clear from your narrative what is the device node for your hard
drive. The FAQ boldly warns following the dd(1) command:
Note: this is a really good time to remind you that blindly typing
commands in you don't understand is a really bad idea. This line will
not work directly on most computers. It is left to the reader to adapt
it to their machine.
There is no way that the FAQ can anticipate whether users will have IDE,
SCSI, or SATA hard drives, so some investigation must occur on your part to
determine whether the hard drive used is wd(4) or sd(4). One of the easiest
ways to find the answer is to search through the output of dmesg(8). On my
older Thinkpad, I get:
$ dmesg | grep sd
sd0 at scsibus2 targ 1 lun 0: Corsair, Flash Voyager, 1.00 ATAPI 0/direct
removable
sd0: 978MB, 512 bytes/sec, 2002944 sec total
sd0 detached
$
...which gives details on a USB flash drive which had been attached at one
time, and:
$ dmesg | grep wd
wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0: HTS541060G9AT00
wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA, 57231MB, 117210240 sectors
wd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 5
$
...which is my actual hard drive in my laptop. What you will find may be
entirely different (including the appended number to the end of the
device...), but the driver reported must be reflected in the dd(1) command
used. If I wanted to create the PBR for my laptop, I would use the
following:
# dd if=/dev/rwd0a of=openbsd.pbr bs=512 count=1
If I were to blindly ( incorrectly) run the command stated in the FAQ, I
would get the error Device not configured. You mention device busy.
Did you run this command as root (which is the meaning of the # shell
prompt...)?
* If I boot with the cd rom neither msdos nor ntfs are available so I
can't write the .pbr file to an accessible place from windows.
* If I boot with the cd rom and write the .pbr file in the bsd filesystem,
I can't read it from windows 7 (I couldn't find a program to mount bsd
filesystems which works with windows 7).
You haven't thought through the ramifications of the MBR active flag. The
MBR contains entries for four possible primary partitions. Only one of them
will be marked active. When the system is next booted, the BIOS will search
through these four entries to determine which primary partition will be
searched for an operating system. Boot managers are simply elaborate
gimmicks to easily set the active flag. fdisk(8) can be used to change the
active partition. In fact, you could use OpenBSD's fdisk(8) to change the
MBR's active flag to next boot Windows, bcdedit (as I recall...) within
Windows to change the active flag to next boot OpenBSD, but this is
laborious.
If you chose whole disk when prompted with the following question during
installation:
Use (W)hole disk or (E)dit the MBR?
...the active flag will have been set automatically for OpenBSD's
partition. If (E)dit is chosen, you can set it manually to whatever
partition you wish. Also, if you chose whole disk, I can only hope you
backed up your Windows partition as it may not be there now.
Studying the FAQ before attempting multibooting as a newcomer is required.
Thinking is too.
Does anybody have a solution to any of these problems or a 4th way?
The biggest problem seen in your message is a failure to grasp the nuances
of the boot process or the needed commands. You can overcome this, but it
will require attention to detail tenacity.
I had the impression that the command:
C:\Windows\system32 bcdedit /set {0154a872-3d41-11de-bd67-
a7060316bbb1}
path \openbsd.pbr
requires that the openbsd.pbr file is at located at the root of c:\. Am I
wrong?
This is correct. As I recall, Windows 7 has less restrictions on where the
PBR is located, but for the purpose of the FAQ, putting the PBR in C:\ is
fine. bcdedit simply needs to be instructed as to its location.
Also recognize that the GUID used in the commands issues on your computer
are system-dependent. Don't simply cut-and-paste from the FAQ. Doing so
will result in a misconfigured boot manager.
Good luck.
obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
Dear all, I was reading through the docs on how to boot openbsd with the windows 7 boot loader so I learned I have to execute: dd if=/dev/sd0a of=openbsd.pbr bs=512 count=1 but I can't do it: * If I do it from the existing openbsd in my drive, /dev/sd0a, I get device busy. * If I boot with the cd rom neither msdos nor ntfs are available so I can't write the .pbr file to an accessible place from windows. * If I boot with the cd rom and write the .pbr file in the bsd filesystem, I can't read it from windows 7 (I couldn't find a program to mount bsd filesystems which works with windows 7). Does anybody have a solution to any of these problems or a 4th way? Thanks marc
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 05:22:10AM -0500, marc wrote: Dear all, I was reading through the docs on how to boot openbsd with the windows 7 boot loader so I learned I have to execute: dd if=/dev/sd0a of=openbsd.pbr bs=512 count=1 Try using the raw device.: /dev/rsd0a -Otto but I can't do it: * If I do it from the existing openbsd in my drive, /dev/sd0a, I get device busy. * If I boot with the cd rom neither msdos nor ntfs are available so I can't write the .pbr file to an accessible place from windows. * If I boot with the cd rom and write the .pbr file in the bsd filesystem, I can't read it from windows 7 (I couldn't find a program to mount bsd filesystems which works with windows 7). Does anybody have a solution to any of these problems or a 4th way? Thanks marc
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 05:22:10AM -0500, marc wrote: Dear all, I was reading through the docs on how to boot openbsd with the windows 7 boot loader so I learned I have to execute: dd if=/dev/sd0a of=openbsd.pbr bs=512 count=1 ^ The raw device won't be busy while the filesystem is mounted, so use /dev/rsd0a (as the FAQ suggests!) Joachim -- TFMotD: lockspool (1) - lock user's system mailbox http://www.joachimschipper.nl/
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
2011/3/7 marc li...@drwx.org Dear all, I was reading through the docs on how to boot openbsd with the windows 7 boot loader so I learned I have to execute: dd if=/dev/sd0a of=openbsd.pbr bs=512 count=1 Then you learned wrong. The FAQ has the solution for you: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting but I can't do it: If you can, trace the bad information back to whoever is handing out bad advice and make them read the FAQ also, so we don't get more users getting non-working advice. -- To our sweethearts and wives. May they never meet. -- 19th century toast
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 05:22:10 -0500 marc li...@drwx.org wrote: * If I boot with the cd rom neither msdos nor ntfs are available so I can't write the .pbr file to an accessible place from windows. * If I boot with the cd rom and write the .pbr file in the bsd filesystem, I can't read it from windows 7 (I couldn't find a program to mount bsd filesystems which works with windows 7). *) write it to an USB stick / external HD with FAT16/32 *) upload it to a FTP server on another host *) use the mail command to send it via email *) use uuencode, print it out and type it in again in Windows ;) regards, Robert
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
Hi Janne,
Thanks a lot for your answer. I did read this section (actually subsection
'Windows 7') so I'm afraid I'm the only one getting it wrong...
I had the impression that the command:
C:\Windows\system32 bcdedit /set {0154a872-3d41-11de-bd67-a7060316bbb1}
path \openbsd.pbr
requires that the openbsd.pbr file is at located at the root of c:\. Am I
wrong?
Thanks again,
Marc
2011/3/7 marc li...@drwx.org
Dear all,
I was reading through the docs on how to boot openbsd with the windows 7
boot loader so I learned I have to execute:
dd if=/dev/sd0a of=openbsd.pbr bs=512 count=1
Then you learned wrong.
The FAQ has the solution for you:
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting
but I can't do it:
If you can, trace the bad information back to whoever is handing out bad
advice and make them read the FAQ also, so we don't get more users getting
non-working advice.
--
To our sweethearts and wives. May they never meet. -- 19th century toast
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
http://www.chrysocome.net/dd -Bryan.
Re: obtaining openbsd.pbr from windows 7
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 01:04:56PM -0500, marc wrote:
Hi Janne,
Thanks a lot for your answer. I did read this section (actually subsection
'Windows 7') so I'm afraid I'm the only one getting it wrong...
I had the impression that the command:
C:\Windows\system32 bcdedit /set {0154a872-3d41-11de-bd67-a7060316bbb1}
path \openbsd.pbr
requires that the openbsd.pbr file is at located at the root of c:\. Am I
wrong?
I have no idea what you think you've been told, but:
a) do NOT post private mail publicly - it's rude;
b) follow the FAQ, including the 'r' in /dev/rsd0a - it works.
Joachim
--
PotD: editors/vim-spell,nl - Dutch spell-check files for Vim
http://www.joachimschipper.nl/
