Re: who is using obsd
a) you're wrong b) you don't know what problem he is trying to solve. On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 5:28 AM, Salim Shaw salims...@vfemail.net wrote: OpenBSD is a server/router/network service OS, it's not designed for desktops. OpenBSD is the pre-eminent platform for Firewalling, IPsec, IPv6. Trying to shove OpenBSD onto the desktop is the ultimate case of square peg/round hole. On 05/13/2013 05:12 PM, Pau wrote: on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work? please contact me off list. Thanks -- Salim A. Shaw System Administrator OpenBSD CentOS / Free Software Advocate Need stability and security -- Try OpenBSD. BSD,ISC license all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets
Re: who is using obsd
On 14/05/2013 16:18, David Coppa wrote: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Mark Duller mark.dul...@it.ox.ac.uk wrote: The OP was talking about laptops... Ideally one would buy a laptop that works well with OpenBSD, but sometimes choice is limited due to workplace requirements etc. For a desktop computer I totally agree. I wouldn't even want to suspend or shutdown my desktop. The Macbook Pro in this case is an Intel. Then try again with -current and it should work, because we have kms for intel now. I just tried with OpenBSD 5.3 i386 and amd64 and it indeed has working resume and video. After a fresh install, executing 'apmd' then 'zzz' from within X suspends the system. Then closing and opening the lid does indeed resume the system. However if doing this on a fresh boot with no X running, then on resume there is no video display. I wasn't able to get the webcam working this time (in previous versions I got it working, though not reliably). I used the 'video' command but it just gives 'video: could not find a usable encoding' even trying various options. dmesg shows the following but uvideo0 doesn't actually exist in /dev/, perhaps that is related to the issue. uvideo0 at uhub0 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 Apple Inc. FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in) rev 2.00/5.16 addr 6 video0 at uvideo0 There is also a timeout on boot (shown in dmesg below) that delays start up for about 1-2 min, I'm not sure how one would overcome this but it's not a big deal having to wait a bit (as rebooting should be not be very frequent). The built in wireless card (BCM43xx 1.0) is not detected in default install, but wired networking is fine. IIRC there is a firmware package one can install to get BCM wifi working. So, IMO OpenBSD is quite useable on a MacBook Pro (13-inch, Late 2011). Though given a choice, I think one is better off getting a system known to work very well with OpenBSD. dmesg OpenBSD 5.3 (GENERIC.MP) #58: Tue Mar 12 18:43:53 MDT 2013 dera...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP RTC BIOS diagnostic error afclock_battery,config_unit,fixed_disk,invalid_time cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.80 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,LONG,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,LAHF,PERF,ITSC real mem = 2324434944 (2216MB) avail mem = 2275454976 (2170MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 07/29/05, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe (62 entries) bios0: vendor Apple Inc. version MBP81.88Z.0047.B26.1110311252 date 10/31/11 bios0: Apple Inc. MacBookPro8,1 acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP HPET APIC SBST ECDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT MCFG SSDT SSDT SSDT acpi0: wakeup devices P0P2(S4) GFX0(S4) PEG1(S4) EC__(S4) GMUX(S3) HDEF(S4) GIGE(S4) SDXC(S3) RP01(S4) ARPT(S4) RP02(S4) RP03(S4) RP04(S4) EHC1(S3) EHC2(S3) ADP1(S4) LID0(S4) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: apic clock running at 99MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 2 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.80 GHz cpu1: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,LONG,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,LAHF,PERF,ITSC cpu2 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu2: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.80 GHz cpu2: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,LONG,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,LAHF,PERF,ITSC cpu3 at mainbus0: apid 3 (application processor) cpu3: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.80 GHz cpu3: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,LONG,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,LAHF,PERF,ITSC ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 2 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 0, remapped to apid 2 acpiec0 at acpi0 acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xe000, bus 0-155 acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (P0P2) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 5 (PEG1) acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus 2 (RP01) acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus 3 (RP02) acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus 4 (RP03) acpiprt6 at acpi0: bus -1 (RP04) acpicpu0 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpicpu1 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpicpu2
Re: who is using obsd
Mark Duller wrote: I wasn't able to get the webcam working this time (in previous versions I got it working, though not reliably). I used the 'video' command but it just gives 'video: could not find a usable encoding' even trying various options. dmesg shows the following but uvideo0 doesn't actually exist in /dev/, perhaps that is related to the issue. uvideo0 at uhub0 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 Apple Inc. FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in) rev 2.00/5.16 addr 6 video0 at uvideo0 video0 at uvideo0 means you access uvideo0 through /dev/video0. The video(1) tool uses the Xv(3) API to display the video stream. I noticed that the necessary support isn't always available, e.g., on my system: $ xvinfo X-Video Extension version 2.2 screen #0 no adaptors present $ video video: could not find a usable encoding I think the video tool failure could be related to the absence of a Xv capable graphics adapter. I don't know if this is a driver or a configuration issue.
Re: who is using obsd
..and it's even more usable with current. On Jun 12, 2013 5:41 PM, Mark Duller mark.dul...@it.ox.ac.uk wrote: On 14/05/2013 16:18, David Coppa wrote: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Mark Duller mark.dul...@it.ox.ac.uk wrote: The OP was talking about laptops... Ideally one would buy a laptop that works well with OpenBSD, but sometimes choice is limited due to workplace requirements etc. For a desktop computer I totally agree. I wouldn't even want to suspend or shutdown my desktop. The Macbook Pro in this case is an Intel. Then try again with -current and it should work, because we have kms for intel now. I just tried with OpenBSD 5.3 i386 and amd64 and it indeed has working resume and video. After a fresh install, executing 'apmd' then 'zzz' from within X suspends the system. Then closing and opening the lid does indeed resume the system. However if doing this on a fresh boot with no X running, then on resume there is no video display. I wasn't able to get the webcam working this time (in previous versions I got it working, though not reliably). I used the 'video' command but it just gives 'video: could not find a usable encoding' even trying various options. dmesg shows the following but uvideo0 doesn't actually exist in /dev/, perhaps that is related to the issue. uvideo0 at uhub0 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 Apple Inc. FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in) rev 2.00/5.16 addr 6 video0 at uvideo0 There is also a timeout on boot (shown in dmesg below) that delays start up for about 1-2 min, I'm not sure how one would overcome this but it's not a big deal having to wait a bit (as rebooting should be not be very frequent). The built in wireless card (BCM43xx 1.0) is not detected in default install, but wired networking is fine. IIRC there is a firmware package one can install to get BCM wifi working. So, IMO OpenBSD is quite useable on a MacBook Pro (13-inch, Late 2011). Though given a choice, I think one is better off getting a system known to work very well with OpenBSD. dmesg OpenBSD 5.3 (GENERIC.MP) #58: Tue Mar 12 18:43:53 MDT 2013 dera...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP RTC BIOS diagnostic error afclock_battery,config_unit,fixed_disk,invalid_time cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.80 GHz cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,LONG,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,D S-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,D EADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,LAHF,PERF,ITSC real mem = 2324434944 (2216MB) avail mem = 2275454976 (2170MB) mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 07/29/05, SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe (62 entries) bios0: vendor Apple Inc. version MBP81.88Z.0047.B26.1110311252 date 10/31/11 bios0: Apple Inc. MacBookPro8,1 acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP HPET APIC SBST ECDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT MCFG SSDT SSDT SSDT acpi0: wakeup devices P0P2(S4) GFX0(S4) PEG1(S4) EC__(S4) GMUX(S3) HDEF(S4) GIGE(S4) SDXC(S3) RP01(S4) ARPT(S4) RP02(S4) RP03(S4) RP04(S4) EHC1(S3) EHC2(S3) ADP1(S4) LID0(S4) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: apic clock running at 99MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 2 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.80 GHz cpu1: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,LONG,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,D S-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,D EADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,LAHF,PERF,ITSC cpu2 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu2: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.80 GHz cpu2: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,LONG,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,D S-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,D EADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,LAHF,PERF,ITSC cpu3 at mainbus0: apid 3 (application processor) cpu3: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2640M CPU @ 2.80GHz (GenuineIntel 686-class) 2.80 GHz cpu3: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,NXE,LONG,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,D S-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,D EADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,LAHF,PERF,ITSC ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 2 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 0, remapped to apid 2 acpiec0 at acpi0 acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xe000, bus 0-155 acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (P0P2) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 5
Re: who is using obsd
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 11:12 PM, Pau vim.u...@gmail.com wrote: on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work? please contact me off list. Thanks I'm not sure if there will be some official readings available (you can try BSDmag and similar resources), but it's completely possible and fine as long as there's SW you need in packages/ports or compilation works on your own. And you know, here are in use tradional Unix/Unix-like things so everything is possible. Yes, having it as desktop instead of Windows and/or Linux is working perfectly.
Re: who is using obsd
On 13/05/2013, at 22:12, Pau vim.u...@gmail.com wrote: on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work? please contact me off list. Thanks Doing statistical consulting for the pharma industry using 99% OpenBSD. Basic toolkit is LaTeX+R, both edited with vim, and LibreOffice. Plus a lot of git, some JabRef when needed, and mutt for email. All running under dwm and using oh so little memory. Occasionally LibreOffice will act up for some reason, and I need to borrow a Windows machine, but that's rare and either MS or LibreOffice's fault, not OpenBSD's. And then there are my servers, firewalls and network services, but I doubt you'd be interested in that.
Re: who is using obsd
I'm not using for scientific work but for all daily, as servers but also as workstation, graphical station sometimes only for scientific work like calculations of astronomical trajectories...that's all. From: Zé Loff zel...@zeloff.org Sent: Tue May 14 08:38:43 CEST 2013 To: vim.u...@gmail.com vim.u...@gmail.com Subject: Re: who is using obsd On 13/05/2013, at 22:12, Pau vim.u...@gmail.com wrote: on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work? please contact me off list. Thanks Doing statistical consulting for the pharma industry using 99% OpenBSD. Basic toolkit is LaTeX+R, both edited with vim, and LibreOffice. Plus a lot of git, some JabRef when needed, and mutt for email. All running under dwm and using oh so little memory. Occasionally LibreOffice will act up for some reason, and I need to borrow a Windows machine, but that's rare and either MS or LibreOffice's fault, not OpenBSD's. And then there are my servers, firewalls and network services, but I doubt you'd be interested in that. Cordialement Francois Pussault 3701 - 8 rue Marcel Pagnol 31100 Toulouse France +33 6 17 230 820 +33 5 34 365 269 fpussa...@contactoffice.fr
Re: who is using obsd
Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Mai 2013 um 08:31 Uhr
Von: Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com
on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work?
please contact me off list. Thanks
I'm not sure if there will be some official readings available (you can try
BSDmag and similar resources), but it's completely possible and fine as
long as there's SW you need in packages/ports or compilation works on your
own. And you know, here are in use tradional Unix/Unix-like things so
everything is possible.
Yes, having it as desktop instead of Windows and/or Linux is working
perfectly.
Full ACK.
My impression is that most people who pretend that OpenBSD is not suited as a
desktop system are either ingnorant or just outright lazy:
- Ignorant on the fine work the developers and countless porters did and/or
- lazy to read the documentation (or if of non-english mothertongue: too lazy
to ask for help)
There is NO general-purpose desktop-related task that cannot be done with
OpenBSD! Full stop.
('Bling-Bling' is NO general purpose requirement!)
Unless s.o. has to use some proprietary software that is tighly linked to
internals of an other OS there is no technical reason to use any other OS as a
basis for a desktop system - only personal likes (I can't live without my
'bling-bling'-ads) and dislikes (I don't want to do my homework).
I happily use OpenBSD on my laptop and on an iMac for all day-to-day work as I
have to ashure my clients that their data is save on my systems. No other OS
gives me that level of confidence.
STEFAN
Re: who is using obsd
On 14/05/2013 10:15, Stefan Wollny wrote:
Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Mai 2013 um 08:31 Uhr Von: Tomas Bodzar
tomas.bod...@gmail.com
on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific
work? please contact me off list. Thanks
I'm not sure if there will be some official readings available (you
can try BSDmag and similar resources), but it's completely possible
and fine as long as there's SW you need in packages/ports or
compilation works on your own. And you know, here are in use
tradional Unix/Unix-like things so everything is possible.
Yes, having it as desktop instead of Windows and/or Linux is
working perfectly.
Full ACK.
My impression is that most people who pretend that OpenBSD is not
suited as a desktop system are either ingnorant or just outright
lazy: - Ignorant on the fine work the developers and countless
porters did and/or - lazy to read the documentation (or if of
non-english mothertongue: too lazy to ask for help)
There is NO general-purpose desktop-related task that cannot be done
with OpenBSD! Full stop. ('Bling-Bling' is NO general purpose
requirement!)
Unless s.o. has to use some proprietary software that is tighly
linked to internals of an other OS there is no technical reason to
use any other OS as a basis for a desktop system
except for resume from suspend not working and video driver issues (yes,
those will work on some laptops, but did not on my Macbook Pro, so that
is a technical reason for using another OS)
- only personal
likes (I can't live without my 'bling-bling'-ads) and dislikes (I
don't want to do my homework).
I happily use OpenBSD on my laptop and on an iMac for all day-to-day
work as I have to ashure my clients that their data is save on my
systems. No other OS gives me that level of confidence.
STEFAN
--
Mark Duller
IT Services, University of Oxford
Network Security Team - OxCERT
Re: who is using obsd
Hi All,
usage of an OS for desktop purposes is quite a broad term.
Few cases for obsd not suitable as desktop:
- At home, the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) for obsd on desktop is negative
due lack of skype, and flash player.
- At work, need for virtual machines on laptop is a must, not very well met
in obsd.
So correct answer is: it depends!
best regards, Dilyan
2013/5/14 Mark Duller mark.dul...@it.ox.ac.uk
On 14/05/2013 10:15, Stefan Wollny wrote:
Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Mai 2013 um 08:31 Uhr Von: Tomas Bodzar
tomas.bod...@gmail.com
on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific
work? please contact me off list. Thanks
I'm not sure if there will be some official readings available (you
can try BSDmag and similar resources), but it's completely possible
and fine as long as there's SW you need in packages/ports or
compilation works on your own. And you know, here are in use
tradional Unix/Unix-like things so everything is possible.
Yes, having it as desktop instead of Windows and/or Linux is
working perfectly.
Full ACK.
My impression is that most people who pretend that OpenBSD is not
suited as a desktop system are either ingnorant or just outright
lazy: - Ignorant on the fine work the developers and countless
porters did and/or - lazy to read the documentation (or if of
non-english mothertongue: too lazy to ask for help)
There is NO general-purpose desktop-related task that cannot be done
with OpenBSD! Full stop. ('Bling-Bling' is NO general purpose
requirement!)
Unless s.o. has to use some proprietary software that is tighly
linked to internals of an other OS there is no technical reason to
use any other OS as a basis for a desktop system
except for resume from suspend not working and video driver issues (yes,
those will work on some laptops, but did not on my Macbook Pro, so that
is a technical reason for using another OS)
- only personal
likes (I can't live without my 'bling-bling'-ads) and dislikes (I
don't want to do my homework).
I happily use OpenBSD on my laptop and on an iMac for all day-to-day
work as I have to ashure my clients that their data is save on my
systems. No other OS gives me that level of confidence.
STEFAN
--
Mark Duller
IT Services, University of Oxford
Network Security Team - OxCERT
Re: who is using obsd
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:18:07AM +0100, Mark Duller wrote: Unless s.o. has to use some proprietary software that is tighly linked to internals of an other OS there is no technical reason to use any other OS as a basis for a desktop system except for resume from suspend not working and video driver issues (yes, those will work on some laptops, but did not on my Macbook Pro, so that is a technical reason for using another OS) It used to work great until recent changes related to framebuffer and KMS :( Now I don't suspend anymore but just shutdown to prevent fsck running all the time because my T500 hangs after resuming. jirib
Re: who is using obsd
My impression is that most people who pretend that OpenBSD is not
suited as a desktop system are either ingnorant or just outright
lazy: - Ignorant on the fine work the developers and countless
porters did and/or - lazy to read the documentation (or if of
non-english mothertongue: too lazy to ask for help)
There is NO general-purpose desktop-related task that cannot be done
with OpenBSD! Full stop. ('Bling-Bling' is NO general purpose
requirement!)
Unless s.o. has to use some proprietary software that is tighly
linked to internals of an other OS there is no technical reason to
use any other OS as a basis for a desktop system
except for resume from suspend not working and video driver issues (yes,
those will work on some laptops, but did not on my Macbook Pro, so that
is a technical reason for using another OS)
If 'suspend/resume' fits under your definition of desktop-related task then
this is a valid point for you (though: wasn't this solved already???). If it is
not working than this is certainly an annoying issue - but: If turned off will
you get your job done? If yes, than it does not meet MY definition of
desktop-related task. (I prefer a clean shutdown anyway as this fits my
workspace best. YMMV, of course.)
And 'video driver issues' on a MB Pro - we're talking 'nVidia' here, right?
That is a sad issue of its own kind ... :-(
STEFAN
Re: who is using obsd
Few cases for obsd not suitable as desktop: - At home, the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) for obsd on desktop is negative due lack of skype, and flash player. WAF: Good point! Hard to tackle ... :-) Skype: Valid argument - I have to agree that nowadays this is a requirement for a general-purpose desktop system (let's not discuss 'confidentiality' for now...) Flash: 'Bling-bling' is possible even with OpenBSD. But you have to deliberatly open Pandora's box... - At work, need for virtual machines on laptop is a must, not very well met in obsd. I have no experience with virtual machines at all - looks like special-purpose to me. But I don't claim competency here. So correct answer is: it depends! Quite right, of course. If you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail Good if we are able to choose from the right tool to get the job done. Most of time my choise is OpenBSD! Cheers, STEFAN
Re: who is using obsd
Scott, I'll be sure not to give up my day job at DUKE Medical Center. We have over 20,000 employees in this medical institution and we know what works for desktops and we know what works for enterprise server environments. Be sure to keep your job. On 05/13/2013 06:59 PM, Scott McEachern wrote: On 05/13/13 17:28, Salim Shaw wrote: OpenBSD is a server/router/network service OS, it's not designed for desktops. OpenBSD is the pre-eminent platform for Firewalling, IPsec, IPv6. Trying to shove OpenBSD onto the desktop is the ultimate case of square peg/round hole. You're quite a comedian. However, don't give up your day job. -- Salim A. Shaw System Administrator OpenBSD CentOS / Free Software Advocate Need stability and security -- Try OpenBSD. BSD,ISC license all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets
Re: who is using obsd
Skype: Valid argument - I have to agree that nowadays this is a requirement for a general-purpose desktop system (let's not discuss 'confidentiality' for now...) Sorry - I couldn't resist: The German IT-news site http://www.heise.de reported a few minutes ago that Microsoft reads along messages sent via Skype: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Vorsicht-beim-Skypen-Microsoft-liest-mit-1857620.html (at this moment German only but I am shure this will be on http://www.h-online.com/ shortly). Some prejudices are actually predictions. Think twice before requesting Skype on your desktop: The biggest threat to confidentiality usually sits right in front of the screen ...
Re: who is using obsd
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 08:34:27AM -0400, Salim Shaw wrote: Scott, I'll be sure not to give up my day job at DUKE Medical Center. We have over 20,000 employees in this medical institution and we know what works for desktops and we know what works for enterprise server environments. Different use cases, different tools. What works for your environment might not be suited to others'. As a developer, I never seen decisions made in the development process with the rationale: OpenBSD is only suited/designed for acting as a firewal/router/server. I use OpenBSD daily on two workstations: a dual headed tower system and a laptop (which suspends and resumes fine btw). A significant amount of work goes into making an OpenBSD desktop work: X is part of the base system, and tonnes of packages are only suited for desktop work. OpenBSD is a general purpose unix-like/posix system. Use it for whatever suits you. -Otto
Re: who is using obsd
I agree with your practicalities. We as IT professionals have to be careful when thrashing people. You never know who you're impacting and I personally would love to see OpenBSD take over the dominance of Cisco. I hate closed source with a vengeance, unfortunately we have to support it due to the powers of the almighty commercialized entity. I never indicated that you can't use OpenBSD as a desktop, but rather the design nature of the OS. It's certainly a personal choice, but large conglomerate institutions are HELL bent on closed source, especially at the desktop level. The Mac OS is the closet thing to Unix we have at the desktop, perhaps a few RedHat workstations, but that's not Unix. I hate Apple just as much as Microsoft, because of their evil closed source methodology. They rape people of the freedom of choice. It's very difficult to convince the worlds leading Cardiologists that your environment and it's trillions of medical records would be best computed on an OpenBSD workstation. It's however a lot easier to convince that your firewalls are best protected by OpenBSD, because some government entities have already proven it's security and stability. Salim... On 05/14/2013 09:28 AM, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 08:34:27AM -0400, Salim Shaw wrote: Scott, I'll be sure not to give up my day job at DUKE Medical Center. We have over 20,000 employees in this medical institution and we know what works for desktops and we know what works for enterprise server environments. Different use cases, different tools. What works for your environment might not be suited to others'. As a developer, I never seen decisions made in the development process with the rationale: OpenBSD is only suited/designed for acting as a firewal/router/server. I use OpenBSD daily on two workstations: a dual headed tower system and a laptop (which suspends and resumes fine btw). A significant amount of work goes into making an OpenBSD desktop work: X is part of the base system, and tonnes of packages are only suited for desktop work. OpenBSD is a general purpose unix-like/posix system. Use it for whatever suits you. -Otto -- Salim A. Shaw System Administrator OpenBSD CentOS / Free Software Advocate Need stability and security -- Try OpenBSD. BSD,ISC license all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets
Re: who is using obsd
On 14/05/2013 12:09, Stefan Wollny wrote:
My impression is that most people who pretend that OpenBSD is
not suited as a desktop system are either ingnorant or just
outright lazy: - Ignorant on the fine work the developers and
countless porters did and/or - lazy to read the documentation (or
if of non-english mothertongue: too lazy to ask for help)
There is NO general-purpose desktop-related task that cannot be
done with OpenBSD! Full stop. ('Bling-Bling' is NO general
purpose requirement!)
Unless s.o. has to use some proprietary software that is tighly
linked to internals of an other OS there is no technical reason
to use any other OS as a basis for a desktop system
except for resume from suspend not working and video driver issues
(yes, those will work on some laptops, but did not on my Macbook
Pro, so that is a technical reason for using another OS)
If 'suspend/resume' fits under your definition of desktop-related
task then this is a valid point for you (though: wasn't this solved
already???). If it is not working than this is certainly an annoying
issue - but: If turned off will you get your job done? If yes, than
it does not meet MY definition of desktop-related task. (I prefer a
clean shutdown anyway as this fits my workspace best. YMMV, of
course.)
And 'video driver issues' on a MB Pro - we're talking 'nVidia' here,
right? That is a sad issue of its own kind ... :-(
The OP was talking about laptops... Ideally one would buy a laptop that
works well with OpenBSD, but sometimes choice is limited due to
workplace requirements etc.
For a desktop computer I totally agree. I wouldn't even want to
suspend or shutdown my desktop.
The Macbook Pro in this case is an Intel.
--
Mark Duller
IT Services, University of Oxford
Network Security Team - OxCERT
Re: who is using obsd
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Mark Duller mark.dul...@it.ox.ac.uk wrote: The OP was talking about laptops... Ideally one would buy a laptop that works well with OpenBSD, but sometimes choice is limited due to workplace requirements etc. For a desktop computer I totally agree. I wouldn't even want to suspend or shutdown my desktop. The Macbook Pro in this case is an Intel. Then try again with -current and it should work, because we have kms for intel now. Ciao, David
Re: who is using obsd
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Alvaro Mantilla Gimenez alv...@alvaromantilla.com wrote: 2013/5/13 Chris Cappuccio ch...@nmedia.net Salim Shaw [salims...@vfemail.net] wrote: OpenBSD is a server/router/network service OS, it's not designed for desktops. OpenBSD is the pre-eminent platform for Firewalling, IPsec, IPv6. Trying to shove OpenBSD onto the desktop is the ultimate case of square peg/round hole. Salim, that's quite strange. OpenBSD has worked on my Sun 4/110 desktop since 1995. And more recently, I've been using it on i386 and later even amd64 machines, as a desktop environment! It could just be some kind of hallucination. You know, I had this one dream of being tied up and injected with sodium pentothal... +1 You can use OpenBSD in desktop environment, sure, common tasks as; sending emails, document processing, games, browse internet, etc. OpenBSD sometime lacks of resources for run natively flash plugins, java efficiently and support for read/write NTFS filesystem from Windows; but, if you not need it, OpenBSD do a good job. Regards. -- Francisco Valladolid H. -- http://blog.bsdguy.net - Jesus Christ follower.
Re: who is using obsd
2013/5/14 Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 11:12 PM, Pau vim.u...@gmail.com wrote: on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work? please contact me off list. Thanks I'm not sure if there will be some official readings available (you can try BSDmag and similar resources), but it's completely possible and fine as long as there's SW you need in packages/ports or compilation works on your own. And you know, here are in use tradional Unix/Unix-like things so everything is possible. Yes, having it as desktop instead of Windows and/or Linux is working perfectly. I don´t have much the Unix Guru Enterprise level, but I managed to work with Perl/Tk, and make nice programs, with Mysql, here are the source code of a program called Facturacion, http://www.crice.org/?q=node/84 tested on OpenBSD 4.3 Greetings -- Atentamente Andrés Genovez Tobar / DTIT Tel: 842388 ext 177 Perfil profesional http://lnkd.in/gcdhJE
Re: who is using obsd
The OP stated he was asking about laptops, and went to the trouble of sending a second email specifying he was talking about scientific research. I know this is misc@, but can we try and stay on-topic? And even if sometimes we learn something from 'what-do-you-use-it-for' discussions, I believe we have all been saying pretty much the same for a while now: OpenBSD can be used for nearly everything. As if we didn't know it already... ;)
Re: who is using obsd
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 08:34:27AM -0400, Salim Shaw wrote: Scott, I'll be sure not to give up my day job at DUKE Medical Center. We have over 20,000 employees in this medical institution and we know what works for desktops and we know what works for enterprise server environments. As an employee of the institution of similar caracter Georgia Regents University (formerly MCG+Augusta State) I am familiar with this attitude. Let me remind you the original question and my private answer were: On 05/13/2013 05:12 PM, Pau wrote: on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work? please contact me off list. Thanks I (dynamical systems and applications) run OpenBSD as my only desktop operating system. You are probably curios what kid of software I use for my work. Beside typical desktop publishing applications used in mathematics TeX, Xfig and developer tools Make, ksh, sed, AWK, CVS, diff patch, Unison etc, I run lots of numerical simulations mostly C (gsl) and Python (numpy, scipy, matplotlib, ipython, cython). I do sometime use FreeMat to cope with simple MATLAB code that somebody sends me. My kids use math/geogebra on daily basis. I do not know about the DUKE Medical center but one of the biggest challenges that I have as a faculty and a researcher at the similar institution is to communicate to our management and IT people that computing in our working environment has multiple components: 1. Infrastructural (firewalls, networks, DNS, portal and similar) 2. Administrative (Payroll, student records, e-mails, Learning Management System and similar) 3. Clinical (Patient records, and many other things I am clueless about) 4. Instructional (depends on the field of study and the level of students) 5. Scientific computing Expecting that a single OS will be the best choice of all five roles is as naive as expecting a single IT guy to be expert on all the above. As a matter of fact probably close to 50% of our University computing infrastructure is provided as a cloud service hosted by outside vendors (Payroll, Desire2Learn, E-mail and many others). As a researcher OpenBSD as previously observed fits my needs best as the operating system on my laptop. However, as a man behind my university Cloud Computing Lab I will be laying if I tell you that I do not have servers/services running other OSs. I do run Linux on our main cluster and on a GPU machine in part due to the lack of drivers (NVidia GPU cards) in part due to the lack of proprietary compilers and software ( PGI compilers, MATLAB, Mathematica and many others). We even have a Blade running Solaris due to the fact that a colleague of mine uses some software for seismology developed in early nineteens which has been never ported on anything else. I tried very hard to avoid using Linux but neither BSD nor Solaris could do the job. On the another hand my Lab's infrastructure runs mostly OpenBSD (firewall, DNS) but for example we use DragonFly for our file server and I hope that no OpenBSD developer will take offense from me saying that Hammer is awesome. Some of affiliated faculty run OpenBSD on a desktop like me, some run Linux some run OS X and we have Windows users too. As an instructor and user of administrative computing OpenBSD fits my needs best. Due to the lack of the native scripting language ( disclaimer I am not familiar with PowerShell) I am the least productive in Windows environment for any instructional/administrative work. I am of firm belief that we could save a lot and better instructional services by adopting Thin Client/Virtual Server model where OpenBSD would be best suited in the role of Thin Client OS but I understand when I need to keep my mouth shut. As previously noted I am clueless about clinical computing but seems that every doctor I know has an iPad so if nothing else interoperability with these devices seems important. Long story short from my point of view what a researcher runs on his laptop is nobodies business as long as the person is productive. Disbelieving that somebody is the most productive with OpenBSD desktop is little ignorant. Best, Predrag P.S. There are several desktop applications mentioned as problematic on OpenBSD (Flash, Skype) I will add two more that I sometime have to use Acroread and MATLAB. With the exception of Flash OpenBSD has enough Linux emulation to run the other three but somebody needs to do lots of work. For example Skype runs great on OpenBSD but somebody needs to plugins for sndio for sound to work.
who is using obsd
on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work? please contact me off list. Thanks
Re: who is using obsd
PS: scientific: physics, math, bio, etc...
Re: who is using obsd
OpenBSD is a server/router/network service OS, it's not designed for desktops. OpenBSD is the pre-eminent platform for Firewalling, IPsec, IPv6. Trying to shove OpenBSD onto the desktop is the ultimate case of square peg/round hole. On 05/13/2013 05:12 PM, Pau wrote: on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work? please contact me off list. Thanks -- Salim A. Shaw System Administrator OpenBSD CentOS / Free Software Advocate Need stability and security -- Try OpenBSD. BSD,ISC license all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets
Re: who is using obsd
Salim Shaw [salims...@vfemail.net] wrote: OpenBSD is a server/router/network service OS, it's not designed for desktops. OpenBSD is the pre-eminent platform for Firewalling, IPsec, IPv6. Trying to shove OpenBSD onto the desktop is the ultimate case of square peg/round hole. Salim, that's quite strange. OpenBSD has worked on my Sun 4/110 desktop since 1995. And more recently, I've been using it on i386 and later even amd64 machines, as a desktop environment! It could just be some kind of hallucination. You know, I had this one dream of being tied up and injected with sodium pentothal...
Re: who is using obsd
2013/5/13 Chris Cappuccio ch...@nmedia.net Salim Shaw [salims...@vfemail.net] wrote: OpenBSD is a server/router/network service OS, it's not designed for desktops. OpenBSD is the pre-eminent platform for Firewalling, IPsec, IPv6. Trying to shove OpenBSD onto the desktop is the ultimate case of square peg/round hole. Salim, that's quite strange. OpenBSD has worked on my Sun 4/110 desktop since 1995. And more recently, I've been using it on i386 and later even amd64 machines, as a desktop environment! It could just be some kind of hallucination. You know, I had this one dream of being tied up and injected with sodium pentothal... +1
Re: who is using obsd
On May 13, 2013 4:33 PM, Chris Cappuccio ch...@nmedia.net wrote: Salim Shaw [salims...@vfemail.net] wrote: OpenBSD is a server/router/network service OS, it's not designed for desktops. OpenBSD is the pre-eminent platform for Firewalling, IPsec, IPv6. Trying to shove OpenBSD onto the desktop is the ultimate case of square peg/round hole. Salim, that's quite strange. OpenBSD has worked on my Sun 4/110 desktop since 1995. ... It could just be some kind of hallucination. ROFL! The myth that there an OS can only be a server or a desktop OS still seems to be out there.
Re: who is using obsd
On 05/13/13 17:28, Salim Shaw wrote: OpenBSD is a server/router/network service OS, it's not designed for desktops. OpenBSD is the pre-eminent platform for Firewalling, IPsec, IPv6. Trying to shove OpenBSD onto the desktop is the ultimate case of square peg/round hole. You're quite a comedian. However, don't give up your day job. -- Scott McEachern https://www.blackstaff.ca Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin
Re: who is using obsd
You are wrong with your statement that OpenBSD is not designed for the desktop. We are running several hundred desktop on the enterprise, thin clients and so on ... On Mon, 2013-05-13 at 17:28 -0400, Salim Shaw wrote: OpenBSD is a server/router/network service OS, it's not designed for desktops. OpenBSD is the pre-eminent platform for Firewalling, IPsec, IPv6. Trying to shove OpenBSD onto the desktop is the ultimate case of square peg/round hole. On 05/13/2013 05:12 PM, Pau wrote: on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work? please contact me off list. Thanks -- Reiner Jung r.j...@mtier.org
Re: who is using obsd
Flame bait. Not even funny. Salim Shaw salims...@vfemail.net wrote: OpenBSD is a server/router/network service OS, it's not designed for desktops. OpenBSD is the pre-eminent platform for Firewalling, IPsec, IPv6. Trying to shove OpenBSD onto the desktop is the ultimate case of square peg/round hole. On 05/13/2013 05:12 PM, Pau wrote: on his/her laptop as *only* OS and uses it daily for scientific work? please contact me off list. Thanks
