Re: [mk2-16v] Struts & Springs

[Steven Arguello]

Excellent, this is what I had in mind, I thought all cars were like this from 
factory.
Thanks all.



> On Apr 25, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Holland Phillips  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm pretty sure that from the factory, all four lower strut bolts are 
> identical. I recall that New Dimensions used to sell the special bolts which 
> provide the adjustabilty. They were sold in pairs, since most people were 
> just interested in the ability to set the camber to factory specs, or to add 
> a small amount of negative camber. I wanted more negative camber than just 
> one bolt provided, so I bought two pair, which allowed me to get a bit more 
> negative camber. I seem to recall that some VW dealer parts departments sold 
> the bolts as well under a factory part number. I think the intention was to 
> allow setting camber after collision repairs.
> 
> ~Holland
> 
> On Apr 25, 2016 16:23, "Jack Simon"  > wrote:
> The bolts and nuts that hold the strut to the wheel bearing housing are one 
> of two sizes, I believe the size of the shaft of the bolt is 11mm and 12mm, 
> the thinner one allowing for camber adjustment. Torque nuts with 19mm hex 
> head to 59 ft. lb. and torque the 18mm hex head to 70 ft. lb. Any VW dealer 
> with a decent parts department old timer (if there are any left!) can help 
> you out.  Both of them have a VW part numberJack 
> 
> On 25 Apr 2016, at 18:03, Holland Phillips wrote:
> 
> Bottom line is I would get 4 of the adjustable front camber bolts, and have 
> the car realigned after you install the bolts. 
> 
> 
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Re: [mk2-16v] Struts & Springs

[Holland Phillips]

I'm pretty sure that from the factory, all four lower strut bolts are
identical. I recall that New Dimensions used to sell the special bolts
which provide the adjustabilty. They were sold in pairs, since most people
were just interested in the ability to set the camber to factory specs, or
to add a small amount of negative camber. I wanted more negative camber
than just one bolt provided, so I bought two pair, which allowed me to get
a bit more negative camber. I seem to recall that some VW dealer parts
departments sold the bolts as well under a factory part number. I think the
intention was to allow setting camber after collision repairs.

~Holland
On Apr 25, 2016 16:23, "Jack Simon"  wrote:

> The bolts and nuts that hold the strut to the wheel bearing housing are
> one of two sizes, I believe the size of the shaft of the bolt is 11mm and
> 12mm, the thinner one allowing for camber adjustment. Torque nuts with
> 19mm hex head to 59 ft. lb. and torque the 18mm hex head to 70 ft. lb. Any
> VW dealer with a decent parts department old timer (if there are any left!)
> can help you out.  Both of them have a VW part numberJack
>
> On 25 Apr 2016, at 18:03, Holland Phillips wrote:
>
> Bottom line is I would get 4 of the adjustable front camber bolts, and
> have the car realigned after you install the bolts.
>
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Re: [mk2-16v] Struts & Springs

[Jack Simon]

Camber correction bolts from Techtonics Tuning website:

http://techtonicstuning.com/main/index.php?main_page=product_info=2_12_55_id=2510=f462f2ffef5391e33ad16bcb956a4709

On 25 Apr 2016, at 18:03, Holland Phillips wrote:

Bottom line is I would get 4 of the adjustable front camber bolts, and have the 
car realigned after you install the bolts. 

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Re: [mk2-16v] Struts & Springs

[Jack Simon]

The bolts and nuts that hold the strut to the wheel bearing housing are one of 
two sizes, I believe the size of the shaft of the bolt is 11mm and 12mm, the 
thinner one allowing for camber adjustment. Torque nuts with 19mm hex head to 
59 ft. lb. and torque the 18mm hex head to 70 ft. lb. Any VW dealer with a 
decent parts department old timer (if there are any left!) can help you out.  
Both of them have a VW part numberJack 

On 25 Apr 2016, at 18:03, Holland Phillips wrote:

Bottom line is I would get 4 of the adjustable front camber bolts, and have the 
car realigned after you install the bolts. 

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Re: [mk2-16v] Struts & Springs

[Holland Phillips]

Well, you have some issues. Your front camper is way off side to side. From
the factory, it was not adjustable. You can make it adjustable by getting
some special lower strut mount bolts, which will give you some
adjustability. If you change both bolts on each side, you should have about
4 degrees total adjustment. Having -1.4 deg on one side and +0.7 on the
other, the car won't feel right, and not handle well, not to mention poor
uneven tire wear. If you don't drive your car hard around corners, setting
the front camber to around -.25 deg should give you good tire wear, and
good overall handling. If you like to do some hard cornering, going to -1.0
--1.5 deg will give you better turn in, and keep the outer edges of the
tires from wearing. Now, caster is not adjustable from the factory either,
but in order to make it so requires installing adjustable caster/camber
plates as your upper strut mount. This requires modification of the strut
towers. Your caster readings are fine for a street car, and they don't need
to be as perfectly even as camber for the car to drive/handle just fine. If
you were building an autocross or track car, adding about +3 deg caster
would be desirable, since it promotes better self centering of the
steering. The rears have no adjustabilty from the factory. It requires
shimming, which is not an easy task, but can be done, again if you were
going for autocross or track performance.
Bottom line is I would get 4 of the adjustable front camber bolts, and have
the car realigned after you install the bolts. On your front/rear diagonal
damping issues, probably new shocks and struts are in order. If you want
high quality rebound adjustable struts/shocks, I always ran Koni Sports,
which are relatively affordable, and last forever. The aren't harsh, and
you can crank the rebound damping up until it drives like a slot car, but
it will be a little harsh at that point.

~Holland
On Apr 25, 2016 14:21, "Steven Arguello"  wrote:

> I had the front wheels aligned, I replaced the rack over the winter and
> wasn’t even close with my measured alignment. Steering feels great, but
> everything else is out of spec. Attached is the print out that they gave
> me. I’ve never messed with any of those adjustments and have no idea how
> it’s done. i assumed it was all adjustable and that it was part of the
> alignment, my guy disagreed (typical corporate shop mentality) and said
> that he could modify the existing parts to make them adjustable. He went on
> to try and sell me a complete set of dampers and springs. As I’m not sure
> of how it’s done I didn’t pursue it, I was happy it was aligned.
> Are the rears adjustable at all?
> If the rims are bent, does that throw off the whole alignment? Mine are
> all bent.
>
> Also, the front left and rear right feel mushy and unresponsive. The other
> ends are rock solid, like they always were. The combination of soft and
> hard diagonally feels terrible, it sort of yaws or teeter-totters
> diagonally. So maybe I do need a set of dampers and springs, or is it
> related to the camber being so off. It has Neuspeed progressive springs,
> 1.5” lowered, not sure of the shocks. I was thinking of looking into
> coilovers with adjustable dampers. I did a quick search and it looks like
> there are a lot of crappy cheap options. Keeping in mind that I have a kid
> in college and another 2 on the way, what can anyone recommend?
>
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Re: [mk2-16v] Struts & Springs

['Matthew Yip' via MK2-16v]

Is this the starting point or is this the best that the tech could do before he 
give up?
Caster isn't adjustable on these cars but camber and toe are easily adjusted in 
the front.  In the rear, shims are required but they aren't rocket science.  
The biggest problem with rear shims is that they require full dis-assembly of 
the the rear stub axle in order to place the shims - proper measurements are 
critical for the rear shims since the shims address both rear toe and camber at 
the same time.  
I'd suggest you find a shop that specializes in "race alignments" or at least a 
shop that understands antique VWs.  Show the shop this print out and if they 
scratch their butts, go elsewhere.  The alignment you'll probably like the most 
of spirited driving (but not daily usage) is:Front - Neg 1.5 degrees camber, 
1/8" toe-inRear - Neg 1.5 degrees camber, 1/8" toe-in
This will give you decent turn-in bite without destroying the inside edges of 
the tyres.  The toe-in will keep the car tracking straight.   

On Monday, April 25, 2016 5:31 PM, Larry Velez <la...@sinu.com> wrote:
 

 I believe the rears are adjustable with shims.

Write up that uses shims:
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?257949-HOW-TO-Fit-Adjustable-camber-toe-EZ-Shims-to-the-rear-beam-stub-axle
 

Shims:
http://www.eurosportacc.com/products/euro-sport-1-degree-rear-camber-shims-vw-mk1-mk2-mk3

Alternative hub bolts:
http://www.eurosportacc.com/collections/suspension/products/10408


I doubt any shop today would know how to do this.  I think some on our list 
have done it themselves and then coached the alignment shop on how to align it 
with the shims.

-Larry
91 GTI 16V

-Original Message-
From: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Steven Arguello
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 5:21 PM
To: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com
Subject: [mk2-16v] Struts & Springs

I had the front wheels aligned, I replaced the rack over the winter and wasn’t 
even close with my measured alignment. Steering feels great, but everything 
else is out of spec. Attached is the print out that they gave me. I’ve never 
messed with any of those adjustments and have no idea how it’s done. i assumed 
it was all adjustable and that it was part of the alignment, my guy disagreed 
(typical corporate shop mentality) and said that he could modify the existing 
parts to make them adjustable. He went on to try and sell me a complete set of 
dampers and springs. As I’m not sure of how it’s done I didn’t pursue it, I was 
happy it was aligned.
Are the rears adjustable at all?
If the rims are bent, does that throw off the whole alignment? Mine are all 
bent.

Also, the front left and rear right feel mushy and unresponsive. The other ends 
are rock solid, like they always were. The combination of soft and hard 
diagonally feels terrible, it sort of yaws or teeter-totters diagonally. So 
maybe I do need a set of dampers and springs, or is it related to the camber 
being so off. It has Neuspeed progressive springs, 1.5” lowered, not sure of 
the shocks. I was thinking of looking into coilovers with adjustable dampers. I 
did a quick search and it looks like there are a lot of crappy cheap options. 
Keeping in mind that I have a kid in college and another 2 on the way, what can 
anyone recommend?

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RE: [mk2-16v] Struts & Springs

[Larry Velez]

I believe the rears are adjustable with shims.

Write up that uses shims:
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?257949-HOW-TO-Fit-Adjustable-camber-toe-EZ-Shims-to-the-rear-beam-stub-axle
 

Shims:
http://www.eurosportacc.com/products/euro-sport-1-degree-rear-camber-shims-vw-mk1-mk2-mk3

Alternative hub bolts:
http://www.eurosportacc.com/collections/suspension/products/10408


I doubt any shop today would know how to do this.  I think some on our list 
have done it themselves and then coached the alignment shop on how to align it 
with the shims.

-Larry
91 GTI 16V

-Original Message-
From: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Steven Arguello
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 5:21 PM
To: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com
Subject: [mk2-16v] Struts & Springs

I had the front wheels aligned, I replaced the rack over the winter and wasn’t 
even close with my measured alignment. Steering feels great, but everything 
else is out of spec. Attached is the print out that they gave me. I’ve never 
messed with any of those adjustments and have no idea how it’s done. i assumed 
it was all adjustable and that it was part of the alignment, my guy disagreed 
(typical corporate shop mentality) and said that he could modify the existing 
parts to make them adjustable. He went on to try and sell me a complete set of 
dampers and springs. As I’m not sure of how it’s done I didn’t pursue it, I was 
happy it was aligned.
Are the rears adjustable at all?
If the rims are bent, does that throw off the whole alignment? Mine are all 
bent.

Also, the front left and rear right feel mushy and unresponsive. The other ends 
are rock solid, like they always were. The combination of soft and hard 
diagonally feels terrible, it sort of yaws or teeter-totters diagonally. So 
maybe I do need a set of dampers and springs, or is it related to the camber 
being so off. It has Neuspeed progressive springs, 1.5” lowered, not sure of 
the shocks. I was thinking of looking into coilovers with adjustable dampers. I 
did a quick search and it looks like there are a lot of crappy cheap options. 
Keeping in mind that I have a kid in college and another 2 on the way, what can 
anyone recommend?

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