Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[Bill]

Try running a zip program on the non gcd file.  (I normally use 7z, but 
I assume other will work as well)

It should let you extract the GUPDATE.GCD from the .exe

  Bill

On 08/20/2016 12:54 PM, ael wrote:

On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 03:38:30PM -0400, Mark Bradley wrote:

You may be able to locate firmware for your unit at
www.gawisp.com/perry/agree.html.

Thanks again for the suggestion. Unfortunately that is just an archive
of the dumbed down Webupdaters (which assumes particular operating systems)
rather than copies of the real GUPDATE.GCD firmware images.

I assume that the said images files are embedded in the updater files.

Why Garmin haven't left the URI's on their website as before for those
who know how to use them [it isn't hard] defeats me.

It used to be possible to talk to competent people at Garmin support who
actually understood technology. These days I only seem to meet
boneheaded incomprehension :-)

ael

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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[ael]

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 11:28:07AM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting your resolution.  If I follow correctly, it sounds
> like once you normalize the waypoint files, then your only real complaint
> about 4.30 is startup slowness.   It sounds like you can display
> mkgmap-generated files and route with them.

So far as I have tested, yes. I had other problems with the loss of
tracks, but that looks as if I had forgotten to "umount" the Garmin
volume on at least one occasion and had a corrupt vfat file system.
fsck fixed that, and I have had no further problems. It would be nice if
the etrek firmware did its own checks on its fat32 filesystem now and
again, but it seems to be down to the (informed) user.

I have had some problems with address lookup which sometimes seems to
fail in circumstances where previous firmware versions worked. But I
don't use that often, and haven't really explored that properly, so I
could be wrong. There have always been some address failures with mgmap-
generated maps in my previous experience, but it seemed to depend on
how one navigated through the menus. I didn't get around to any objective
analysis.

As for the slow startup, I should mention that I have a 32GB sdhc
card installed, and keep a large number of georeferenced photographs
there, among other things. The firmware searches and locates these
photographs (I don't know how to turn that off), and it seems to do
that at start up. I have been steadily increasing the number of these
photographs, so part of the slow down may be because of this startup
search takes longer to plough through everything. Currently I have
around 7GB of these pictures, so even just looking at the exif tags
takes some time. If I was designing the firmware, I would do the search
after the initial boot.

Another plausible reason for the slower start up is that the firmware
was trying and failing to parse the "old" Waypoint files. Since I have
converted them with gpsbabel and cleaned out the old crud, my subjective
impression is that the start up is a little less slow.

> I have much older firmware on my Etrex 30, and this makes me inclined to
> update, since in general it seems like some bugs are likely to be
> fixed.  But maybe I should hold off...

As I have only recently cleaned up the Waypoints, I don't yet have
enough experience to give a firm answer. But I think it should be
reasonably safe. 

Good luck!

ael


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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[ael]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 08:25:32PM +0100, ael wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 10:29:07AM -0700, nwillink wrote:
> > 2) "Route calculation error"; 
> > 
> > 3) "The route does not match the available maps. Cannot follow the roads 
> > 
> > ie 
> > 
> > 1) I have previously routed from A to B using map M1
> > 2) I update my gmapsupp to map M2
> > 3) I switch on and select Recent Finds (or something like that) and click on
> > the route which I created with map M1
> > 
> > I narrowed down the problem to the fact that map M1 and M2 have different
> > map IDs and for reasons unknown but time will tell routes are linked to a
> > specific map.
> > 

I must apologise for taking so long to report back, but at least OSM has
benefited from a couple of weeks of my intensive mapping in the interim.

I now understand the problem. Firmware version 4.30 is unable to read
waypoints written by earlier firmware versions! I had discovered this
before starting this thread and found it confirmed in places like
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=70084.0.

I had not encountered this sort of problem with earlier firmware
upgrades.

In passing, the old waypoints can be restored by simply passing them
through gpsbabel. Something like
gpsbabel-w -i gpx -f Waypoints_date.gpx -o gpx -F Working_WPs_date.gpx
in the Garmin/GPX/ directory fixes things. Firmware 4.30 can read
Working_WPs_date.gpx. Of course you will probably want to script that to
convert all the similar files, and remove the old ones.

When I started this thread, I had not done the conversions. So when I
invoked routing, I could not follow my usual practice with Waypoints,
so used "recent finds". As nwillink (thanks again) pointed out, it seems
that these Recent finds do not use simple coordinates, but cache at
least some elements of the map when they were last used. Which then
fails if the map has been subsequently changed. Which seems like buggy
Garmin firmware. 

I am still surprised not to have come across this problem before, given
that I am pretty confident that I have used "Recent finds" even when 
Waypoints were available, and that I regularly update the map. So
perhaps this is a new problem with firmware 4.30.

I have included a fair bit of detail in case others have problems after 
the firmware upgrade and find this thread.

I am not sure that I recommend 4.30. It seems to take much longer to
start up than the earlier firmwares. 

Thanks again for all the replies and help.

ael


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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[ael]

On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 03:38:30PM -0400, Mark Bradley wrote:
> 
> You may be able to locate firmware for your unit at
> www.gawisp.com/perry/agree.html.

Thanks again for the suggestion. Unfortunately that is just an archive
of the dumbed down Webupdaters (which assumes particular operating systems)
rather than copies of the real GUPDATE.GCD firmware images.

I assume that the said images files are embedded in the updater files.

Why Garmin haven't left the URI's on their website as before for those
who know how to use them [it isn't hard] defeats me.

It used to be possible to talk to competent people at Garmin support who
actually understood technology. These days I only seem to meet
boneheaded incomprehension :-)

ael

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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[Mark Bradley]

> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:06:46 +0100
> From: ael 
> To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with
>   latest firmware
> Message-ID: <20160728190646.GA4953@shelf.conquest>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:36:03PM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote:
> >
> > do you have pointers to older firmware, and can you roll back to 4.20?
> 
> Garmin seem to do their best to make it difficult to get their firmware
images.
> Anyway, I seem to remember reading that it was not possible to roll back
to older
> versions. But maybe my memory is wrong. But I don't want to risk bricking
my Etrek. It
> is possible that I still have the older firmware somewhere.
> 
> > I have an etrex 30 with 2.80, which basically works.
> 
> Yes, I am pretty sure I was on 2.80 before, and had no problems.
> 
> I suppose a conspiracy theory would be that Garmin changed something to
bread
> mkgmap, but I guess it is more likely that the reverse engineering of the
map format
> is imperfect, and this new bug may be the opportunity to track down such
> imperfections. Which is why I thought the developers' list was the right
place to post.
> 
> If I can find the old firmware image, and am sure that reverting won't
brick the unit, I
> will give it a try.
> 
> I may also try some of the other maps suggested, although I am currently
away from
> home with limited internet bandwidth, so large maps might be a problem
ATM.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> ael



You may be able to locate firmware for your unit at
www.gawisp.com/perry/agree.html.

Mark Bradley


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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[Felix Hartmann]

I've noted that recently Basecamp routing is very problematic if you don't
start or end on a street. In general Basecamp routing got much worse with
the last 2-3 versions. Also on some devices there are degradations.

On 28 July 2016 at 21:34, ael  wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 05:43:53PM +, Gary Bamford wrote:
> > I have seen something similar, but only when i copy a map to the gps,
> rather than copy it to the sd card and then put the sd card into the gps,
> power cycling the gps after copying your new map may solve the problem
>
>
> Again, thanks. In fact I remove the usdhc card from the Etrex - which
> involves removing the batteries -, mount it on a PC (under linux), place
> the map.img file into the /sdhc/Garmin/ directory, umount it and place
> back into the Etrex. That is my regular routine for updating maps which
> has worked for years.
>
> So as you see, power cycling the gps is inherent in the process. In any
> case, I changed the batteries anyway as a check when I first encountered
> the problem.
>
> ael
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>



-- 
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Schusterbergweg 32/8
6020 Innsbruck
Austria - Österreich
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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[ael]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 05:43:53PM +, Gary Bamford wrote:
> I have seen something similar, but only when i copy a map to the gps, rather 
> than copy it to the sd card and then put the sd card into the gps, power 
> cycling the gps after copying your new map may solve the problem


Again, thanks. In fact I remove the usdhc card from the Etrex - which
involves removing the batteries -, mount it on a PC (under linux), place
the map.img file into the /sdhc/Garmin/ directory, umount it and place
back into the Etrex. That is my regular routine for updating maps which
has worked for years.

So as you see, power cycling the gps is inherent in the process. In any
case, I changed the batteries anyway as a check when I first encountered
the problem.

ael
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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[ael]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 10:29:07AM -0700, nwillink wrote:
> 2) "Route calculation error"; 
> 
> 3) "The route does not match the available maps. Cannot follow the roads 
> precisely. Do you want to recalculate the the route?" Choosing [Yes] 
> gives "Route calculation error. Maps do not have routable roads in this 
> area." 
> 
> I ALWAYS  get this on my Oregon 450 and GPS64 when I have updated my map.
> 
> ie 
> 
> 1) I have previously routed from A to B using map M1
> 2) I update my gmapsupp to map M2
> 3) I switch on and select Recent Finds (or something like that) and click on
> the route which I created with map M1
> 
> I narrowed down the problem to the fact that map M1 and M2 have different
> map IDs and for reasons unknown but time will tell routes are linked to a
> specific map.
> 

Ah. Interesting. I update my maps regularly and have not seen these
problems before. I suppose that if the new firmware is somehow caching
some aspects of an older calculation, that might explain the behaviour.
Nevertheless, I don't think this is likely on this Etrek 20, especially
since I have tried on many routes including those not previously
calculated. And I am not saving these routes which is what you seem to 
be describing. But I will experiment and report back any improvement.

Thank you so much for the suggestions.

ael

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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[ael]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 04:51:11PM +0200, Thomas Morgenstern wrote:
> Basecamp is available also for MAC, not only windows.

I know. But I am using linux. Wine is a Windows emulation on linux, so
I might try that, as I noted earlier.

>Your problems are dependent from the map.

Unless the reverse engineering of the Garmin map format is not perfect
perhaps? Otherwise the two different sources of maps I have tried are very
widely used, so it would be very surprising if there were not many bug
reports if this problem was showing up on other devices and firmwares.

Nevertheless, I will see if I have enough bandwidth to download and try
another map (I am away from home just now with limited internet access).

ael

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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[ael]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:36:03PM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote:
> 
> do you have pointers to older firmware, and can you roll back to 4.20?

Garmin seem to do their best to make it difficult to get their firmware
images. Anyway, I seem to remember reading that it was not possible to
roll back to older versions. But maybe my memory is wrong. But I don't
want to risk bricking my Etrek. It is possible that I still have the
older firmware somewhere.

> I have an etrex 30 with 2.80, which basically works.

Yes, I am pretty sure I was on 2.80 before, and had no problems.

I suppose a conspiracy theory would be that Garmin changed something
to bread mkgmap, but I guess it is more likely that the reverse
engineering of the map format is imperfect, and this new bug may
be the opportunity to track down such imperfections. Which is why I
thought the developers' list was the right place to post.

If I can find the old firmware image, and am sure that reverting won't 
brick the unit, I will give it a try.

I may also try some of the other maps suggested, although I am currently 
away from home with limited internet bandwidth, so large maps might be 
a problem ATM.

Thanks for the suggestions.

ael

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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[Gary Bamford]

I have seen something similar, but only when i copy a map to the gps, rather 
than copy it to the sd card and then put the sd card into the gps, power 
cycling the gps after copying your new map may solve the problem



From: mkgmap-dev  on behalf of nwillink 

Sent: 28 July 2016 17:29
To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

2) "Route calculation error";

3) "The route does not match the available maps. Cannot follow the roads
precisely. Do you want to recalculate the the route?" Choosing [Yes]
gives "Route calculation error. Maps do not have routable roads in this
area."

I ALWAYS  get this on my Oregon 450 and GPS64 when I have updated my map.

ie

1) I have previously routed from A to B using map M1
2) I update my gmapsupp to map M2
3) I switch on and select Recent Finds (or something like that) and click on
the route which I created with map M1

I narrowed down the problem to the fact that map M1 and M2 have different
map IDs and for reasons unknown but time will tell routes are linked to a
specific map.

I can still use the shortcut but have to move my cursor  to a slightly
different place and press GO.




--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Problems-with-routing-on-Etrek-20-with-latest-firmware-tp5879373p5879388.html
Mkgmap Development - Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest 
firmware
gis.19327.n5.nabble.com
Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware. I hope this is an 
appropriate post for this list. Since I updated my Garmin Etrex 20 to the 
latest firmware...


Sent from the Mkgmap Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[nwillink]

2) "Route calculation error"; 

3) "The route does not match the available maps. Cannot follow the roads 
precisely. Do you want to recalculate the the route?" Choosing [Yes] 
gives "Route calculation error. Maps do not have routable roads in this 
area." 

I ALWAYS  get this on my Oregon 450 and GPS64 when I have updated my map.

ie 

1) I have previously routed from A to B using map M1
2) I update my gmapsupp to map M2
3) I switch on and select Recent Finds (or something like that) and click on
the route which I created with map M1

I narrowed down the problem to the fact that map M1 and M2 have different
map IDs and for reasons unknown but time will tell routes are linked to a
specific map.

I can still use the shortcut but have to move my cursor  to a slightly
different place and press GO.




--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Problems-with-routing-on-Etrek-20-with-latest-firmware-tp5879373p5879388.html
Sent from the Mkgmap Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[Thomas Morgenstern]

Basecamp is available also for MAC, not only windows. Your problems are 
dependent from the map. I would try other map. here: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OSM_Map_On_Garmin/Download are many 
other sources.

thomas

--
Von: "ael" 
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juli 2016 16:24
An: 
Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest 
firmware



On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 01:05:40PM +, Gary Bamford wrote:

Hi Ael.


That's a strange on, I have no experience with the Etrek 20, but my 
starting point would be to load the map up into Basecamp, I would do this 
by putting the sd micro into a reader that way basecamp sees exactly the 
same map as the Garmin device.


Thanks for the reply, but AIUI basecamp is a windows program and I don't 
have

access to that operating system. In extremis, I might try using Wine if
that would throw any light.

ael

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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[ael]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 01:05:40PM +, Gary Bamford wrote:
> Hi Ael.
> 
> 
> That's a strange on, I have no experience with the Etrek 20, but my starting 
> point would be to load the map up into Basecamp, I would do this by putting 
> the sd micro into a reader that way basecamp sees exactly the same map as the 
> Garmin device.

Thanks for the reply, but AIUI basecamp is a windows program and I don't have
access to that operating system. In extremis, I might try using Wine if
that would throw any light.

ael

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Re: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

[Gary Bamford]

Hi Ael.


That's a strange on, I have no experience with the Etrek 20, but my starting 
point would be to load the map up into Basecamp, I would do this by putting the 
sd micro into a reader that way basecamp sees exactly the same map as the 
Garmin device.


Regards


Gary



From: mkgmap-dev  on behalf of ael 

Sent: 28 July 2016 12:55
To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk
Subject: [mkgmap-dev] Problems with routing on Etrek 20 with latest firmware

I hope this is an appropriate post for this list.

Since I updated my Garmin Etrex 20 to the latest firmware (4.30
[http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=5553]),
Garmin: eTrex 20/30 (Webupdater) Updates & 
Downloads
www8.garmin.com
eTrex 20/30 (Webupdater) Updates & Downloads ... Change History Changes made 
from version 4.20 to 4.30: Improved 'Save Portion' track feature.


I have had problems with routing with OSM maps generated with
mkgmap.

So far, I have only tried standard maps from
http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/ and http://extract.bbbike.org/.  (My
previous quick attempts to run mkgmap directly failed after I was unable
to find documents that explained the process sufficiently clearly,
although I may now need to try again after this problem.)

Trying various routes that had always worked with previous versions of
the firmware, I get a variety of symptoms including:

1) Apparent deadlocks (requiring batteries to be removed to achieve
reboot);

2) "Route calculation error";

3) "The route does not match the available maps. Cannot follow the roads
precisely. Do you want to recalculate the the route?" Choosing [Yes]
gives "Route calculation error. Maps do not have routable roads in this
area."

A quick google search only showed one similar very brief report of
similar problems (although not with mgkmap/OSM so far as I could tell)
after firmware 4.30 was installed.

Is this a known problem? Garmin certainly changed more than they
documented on this firmware revision: for example version 4.30 could not read
Waypoint files written by previous versions.

Thanks for any help on this. If I can help with diagnosis, please let
me know.

ael

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