Re: Just a few good men? Was: ignored (again)
On 05 Jul 2001 07:44:53 + Matt Sergeant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt I was really looking forward to your presentation @ YAPC::Montreal and also to meet you and other mod_perlers at a BOF which didn't happen. But I do want to mention T.J.Mather's wonderful presentation of PageKit and Chris Winters' terrific presentation on OpenInteract. OpenInteract is written as a mod_perl handler. So the number of frameworks for mod_perl is steadily increasing which is great news. I apologize to those who already know these facts but to those who don't here are the urls. http://www.openinteract.org/ http://www.pagekit.org/ I am not sure if it is my bias but perl mongers are some of the nicest and the most fun people you'll ever meet at a software conference. BTW Damian Conway was awesome as usual. Don't miss his Life, the Universe and Everything talk at the PerlCon. -bakki Yes, we do. But I don't think it's enough to convince people to move to mod_perl. They want to move to a better framework. I'm sure you know which one I favour :-) Sadly most people *still* see Perl on the web as CGI, as printing out your HTML from code, etc. It needs more articles in the right places to fix that sort of misconception. Matt. -- .-.| Bakki Kudva__Open Source EDMS__ oo|| Navaco ph: 814-833-2592 /`'\| 420 Pasadena Drive fax: 603-947-5747 (\_;/) | Erie, PA 16505 http://www.navaco.com/
Apache::Session install errors
this may be slightly OT but when try to install Apache::Session I am getting... t/99mysql...DBI-connect(sessions) failed: Access denied for user: '@localhost' to database 'sessions' at blib/lib/Apache/Session/Lock/MySQL.pm line 36 (in cleanup) DBI-connect(sessions) failed: Access denied for user: '@localhost' to database 'sessions' at blib/lib/Apache/Session/Lock/MySQL.pm line 36t/99mysql...dubious Test returned status 255 (wstat 65280, 0xff00) DIED. FAILED tests 1-8 Failed 8/8 tests, 0.00% okay t/99mysqllock...(in cleanup) DBD::mysql::st execute failed: MySQL server has gone away at blib/lib/Apache/Session/Lock/MySQL.pm line 70. .and then make: *** [test_dynamic] Error 29 /usr/bin/make test -- NOT OK Running make install make test had returned bad status, won't install without force I have MySQL running. I was wondering if the DBI-connect(sessions) test fails because I am running this as root (in CPAN shell). -- .-.| Bakki Kudva__Open Source EDMS__ oo|| Navaco ph: 814-833-2592 /`'\| 420 Pasadena Drive fax: 603-947-5747 (\_;/) | Erie, PA 16505 http://www.navaco.com/
Re: an unusual [job request] + taking mod_perl to the commercial world
On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:52:05 +0800 Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I completely agree with the assertion that applications sell the underlying technology. History teaches us that to be indisputable. Also while applications should be an overall part of the vision, it may not have to be there right from the start. I have been peeking in at Enhydra from time to time and I remeber in the beginning all they had was the framework consisting of the multi-server, xmlc and perhaps DODS. Now i see they have complete apps like Brock, jFAQ, and the fairly complete golf store application all of which could be, as YABW (yet another buzz word) says, repurposed. Same is true of Zope where apps are emerging only now. The tutorial is a terrific example of a zope app. Perhaps the roadmaps followed by these two opensource camps will have great lessons for mod_perl. As the technology catches on the core-developers could form a company for support, training etc as shown by Lutris for Enhydra and Digital Creations for Zope. That seems like the validation corporations look for. moral: lay a great foundation and they will build :) -bakki I would like to restate that while I think these engines are cool and useful, that they are not the things that bring the masses to your platform. This was the point I was making. I am not naysaying projects like Enhydra, but just stated that they are not as directly useful for bringing the masses to the platform. While it is true that an Enhydra type of engine makes writing application easier, what you really still always need in order to gain a critical mass is something more concrete that the masses can hook onto. I am not talking about techies loving mod_perl or Enhydra or AxKit. But everyday webmasters and CIOs saying XYZ platform has so many applications for it I can see them demoed, my tech staff can install them within a day so let's use it. There are just certain things that are harder to market than others. Applications make platforms easier to market because it shows off the power. I was not at the meeting, but I heard Stas convinced one of our clients to go with mod_perl by showing them a site he created called SinglesHeaven in CGI and then in mod_perl. Look how fast it is and you can see it's a real application. Showing the same people benchmarks of hello world and template renderings generally do not have the same effect. -- .-.| Bakki Kudva__Open Source EDMS__ oo|| Navaco ph: 814-833-2592 /`'\| 420 Pasadena Drive fax: 603-947-5747 (\_;/) | Erie, PA 16505 http://www.navaco.com/
Re: an unusual [job request] + taking mod_perl to the commercial world
On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:14:10 +0100 (BST) Matt Sergeant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen to that and there is Enhydra on the Java side. To get the functionality of these two frameworks I'd have to integrate many many CPAN modules, keep track of various versions, make sure each is active etc etc. A nice application framework like Enhydra or zope on mod_perl which is maintained perhaps by all the authors of individual modules would be a great start. bakki Actually there's an exception to this rule. Look at Zope. -- .-.| Bakki Kudva__Open Source EDMS__ oo|| Navaco ph: 814-833-2592 /`'\| 420 Pasadena Drive fax: 603-947-5747 (\_;/) | Erie, PA 16505 http://www.navaco.com/
Re: [OT] ApacheCon BOF
I am so sorry to have to add one more comment to this thread but I am afraid that I am being misquoted. The quotation below IS NOT MINE though it appears that way by incomplete quoting to someone who didn't get my original post! Again, it came from Sherman Alexie a Coeur d'Alen Indian who wrote the screenplay for 'Smoke Signals', the first movie to be written, directed and acted entirely by Native Americans. It becomes very clear if you listen to Alexie how EXACTLY Native Americans feel about these matters. Again I was only providing the quote and a link to Alexie's site so those who care to might learn more about it. http://www.fallsapart.com/index.html That's it. No more on this issue from me! I love mod_perl! (that's to qualifiy the msg for the list :) bakki On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:35:40 -0600 "Ken Williams" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alexander Farber (EED)) wrote: Bakki Kudva wrote: Just look at the sports teams. You couldn't have a team called the Washington Kikes or the Washington Micks. But yet you can have the Washington Redskins and this Indian with a big nose and big lips running around. How would you feel if it was the Washington Rabbis and you had a guy with braids running around throwing bagels? Hey, that would be very funny! And I'm jewish. It sounds like kind of a funny idea in theory, perhaps for a Saturday Night Live skit, but how horrible it would be if this were actually carried out with a real team and a real city. Guys, relax - I don't believe, that using feathers and/or Apache is offending anyone, esp. because it's a nice piece of software. That may be right, but I live in a community with a lot of Native Americans, I have a (pretty small) bit of Cherokee heritage myself, and there's no way in hell I'm going to wear, in public, a shirt that uses stereotypical Indian symbols to promote something as far removed as web server software. It would feel like an affront on my chest. Anyway, it seems the shirt isn't going toward this idea, so in that sense the point is moot, but some of the discussion has really been rubbing me the wrong way. I don't think it's proper for one person to dictate the situations in which another person is supposed to take offense, and the situations in which he/she shouldn't. That's not how emotions work. ------ Ken Williams Last Bastion of Euclidity [EMAIL PROTECTED]The Math Forum -- .-.| Bakki Kudva__Open Source EDMS__ oo|| Navaco ph: 814-833-2592 /`'\| 420 Pasadena Drive fax: 603-947-5747 (\_;/) | Erie, PA 16505 http://www.navaco.com/
Fw: Re: [OT] ApacheCon BOF
Sorry I forgot to cc the list the first time. Can we not make the list messages come 'from:' the list address by default so we can cc the sender only if needed? Begin forwarded message: Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:58:59 -0500 From: Bakki Kudva [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] ApacheCon BOF First I vote for Randal's ModDonald's idea. Secondly I had an idea and here is crude representation of it. It is Tux the Linux Penguin acting like that character from the movie "the Predator" with a Gatling gun strapped across his chest with perl bullets (on the ammo belt and shooting out of the muzzle) and when they hit the target they splash into web pages. If this appeals to the list some one with a better "artistic license" than I can do a better job of rendering it. :) I did it in a couple of minutes with Gimp. On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:16:50 +0800 Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So apart from the Native American thread which I believe everyone has worked out... what do you want to do about T-Shirts? For me, three ideas stand out... 1) I did like the ModDonalds idea... 2) I wasn't at last years conference, I really like the World Domination one and wished I could have gotten that. If the notice is short before April 4th, I certainly would not mind having another one of those... :) 3) I also really really loved the Extreme Linux T-Shirt from LinuxExpo 3 years ago. The theme that year was Clustered Computing and RedHat had just made the first cluster utility CD. It had a picture of a snowboarding penguin... Something along that line --- mod_perl equating with extreme perl programming would be kind of cool... Later, Gunther -- .-.| Bakki Kudva__Open Source EDMS__ oo|| Navaco ph: 814-833-2592 /`'\| 420 Pasadena Drive fax: 603-947-5747 (\_;/) | Erie, PA 16505 http://www.navaco.com/
Re: Fw: Re: [OT] ApacheCon BOF
On 22 Mar 2001 11:42:26 -0800 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote: But mod_perl is not just Linux. mod_perl runs just fine on those redmond-based so-called "operating systems", as well as BSD (little devil, anyone?) and Unix, and starting saturday, MacOS X! I was thinking about thatperhaps mod_perlers could adopt some other animal- Kangaroo, Tasmanian Devil?, or just a generic geeky prorgrammer sort of like Dilbert. bakki -- .-.| Bakki Kudva__Open Source EDMS__ oo|| Navaco ph: 814-833-2592 /`'\| 420 Pasadena Drive fax: 603-947-5747 (\_;/) | Erie, PA 16505 http://www.navaco.com/
Re: [OT] ApacheCon BOF
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:11:13 -0500 Geoffrey Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: actually, we may have a winner with the Native American and lamp idea. A coworker suggested a peace pipe (picture an indian smoking perl) instead of a lamp, since you don't see warriors holding lamps often. maybe some smoke signals? I am not trolling here nor am I particularly trying to be 'politically correct' but after seeing Sherman Alexie's award winning movie "Smoke Signals" and listening to him (just yesterday on 60 Minutes II) I have a developed a new understanding and respect for Native American symbologies and their relegious significance to them. To quote Alexie:(http://www.fallsapart.com/art-side.html) "Alexie: It's part of the national consciousness. If people start dealing with Indian culture and Indian peoples truthfully in this country, we're going to have to start dealing with the genocide that happened here. In order to start dealing truthfully with our cultures, they have to start dealing truthfully with that great sin, the original sin of this country, and that's not going to happen. Just look at the sports teams. You couldn't have a team called the Washington Kikes or the Washington Micks. But yet you can have the Washington Redskins and this Indian with a big nose and big lips running around. How would you feel if it was the Washington Rabbis and you had a guy with braids running around throwing bagels? Or the Washington Jesuits with some guy handing out communion wafers. It wouldn't happen. So, it's an insult. It's proof of the ways in which we get ignored." So it MIGHT be distasteful to use these Native American metaphors no matter how innocuous they might seem to us. My 2cents worth, bakki -- .-.| Bakki Kudva__Open Source EDMS__ oo|| Navaco ph: 814-833-2592 /`'\| 420 Pasadena Drive fax: 603-947-5747 (\_;/) | Erie, PA 16505 http://www.navaco.com/
Re: [OT] Design Patterns in mod_perl apps?
Thank you for that pointer. I checked http://www.pagekit.org/. Looks very interesting. While on the subject I'd like to mention another really nice book by Mark Grand called "Patterns in Java" that might be of interest to those looking into Design Patterns. This book has many additional pattern to those in GoF such as 'concurrency patterns' and 'filter' which Gunther was alluding to. Also there is a chapter on UML which was very useful to me. The patterns are all illustrated with UML. It would be terrific if those who ARE using Design Patterns in their web apps could contribute to a 'Design patterns' chapter to Stas's Guide. I would have been happy to volunteer but for the fact that I am way early on my learning curve and it will be a while before I can do it. -or- Gunther, I have two of your books on my shelf and would love to add a third one, how about it? :)) -bakki Perrin Harkins wrote: Gunther Birznieks wrote: GoF did not introduce Model-View-Controller architecture. But it is discussed in Wiley's "A System of Patterns: Pattern-Oriented Software Architecture". MVC is frequently used in mod_perl apps. For example, see Apache::PageKit. - Perrin -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
Re: [OT] Design Patterns in mod_perl apps?
I would like to close this thread with LOTS of THANK YOUS to Gunther who gave me tons of very valuable information on the subject. I am still in the process of digging my way through design patterns, but still at the 'huh?' stage but am optimistic that very soon will have the 'Aha!' as the intro to the book says :) hint to perl/oop gurus (Damian, if you are listening): Time is ripe for a modern design patterns in perl book /hint best, bakki Gunther Birznieks wrote: The download link may be old. You might want to go to the extropiaperl project on SourceForge and get latest code using anonymous CVS. Also, in the last 2 months we really revamped the architecture to change from a central control loop to action handlers where a stream of action objects where the application is defined by the order and process through which the action handlers get processed. This is similar to the Struts project for the Java Servlet API on java.apache.org. It turns out to be a fairly powerful model that has increased our productivity even more. In addition, Webware will give me some real world apps to look at to get a sense of how CoR, flyweight etc are implemented, especially in Perl. This is right on the money as far as what I am trying to learn. That was part of our intention. We didn't really spend a LOT of time on design patterns, but certainly they had a strong influence. There have been tons of articles and books on Design Patterns since GoF Any specific web design patterns book you would recommend? If i was back home in the USA I could probably give you quite a few. As it is, I am afraid that I've just relying on articles here and there in the last 2 years because I never took my entire library with me when I moved to London and then to Singapore... I've been traveling more lightweight. GoF did not introduce Model-View-Controller architecture. But it is discussed in Wiley's "A System of Patterns: Pattern-Oriented Software Architecture". I think Addison-Wesley has a series of books based on the Pattern Languages symposia over the last many years which gives an overview. Any article by PJ Plauger I've ever read is pretty good. You can look a lot of his stuff up by searching the web for his name plus patterns. Malveau and Mowbray's CORBA Design Patterns is a really good book for anyone doing distributed programming even if it's not CORBA. The Pattern Almanac from Addison-Wesley doesn't really describe patterns all that well but it does provide a lot of references to existing works and provides very very short but easy to read summaries of many patterns out there. The cool thing about the Pattern Almanac is that it has a lot of patterns that are not idomatic to OO but apply to many situations. For example, it even has a section on "Patterns for Designing in Teams"... which include Multiple Competing Designs, Decision Document, Creator-Reviewer, Master-Journeyman, and Ad-Hoc Corrections Thanks, Gunther -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
Re: [OT] Design Patterns in mod_perl apps?
Wow!! Gunther you've done it again. I ask for some nuggets and you've given me the gold mine :) Gunther Birznieks wrote: If you look at the latter half of the on-line book at http://www.extropia.com/ExtropiaObjects/ and read the module chapters after and including the "Architecture" chapter you will see a sidebar in each chapter devoted to identifying design patterns that were used in that set of related modules. I just quickly browsed through Chapter 10 (104 pages !!) and it shines light on EXACTLY the sort of things I was thinking about. It is like the 'Design Patterns' 'Conway book' fused into one. I also downloaded the webware apps so I can disect and learn from them. I'll be busy for the next few months:) eg we use CoR in filters that are specific to handling content in our apps. We use (depending on how you view it) CoR or flyweight for dealing with stuff like data handlers (which are essentially filters for *incoming* content) In addition, Webware will give me some real world apps to look at to get a sense of how CoR, flyweight etc are implemented, especially in Perl. This is right on the money as far as what I am trying to learn. 3. Are there any new patterns useful for mod_perl apps? Lots. But I think you mean Web apps not mod_perl apps. Web Apps abound with idioms and design patterns. There are many which have been identified since the GoF book such as Session which I think nearly all large web apps use. :) You were correct in paraphrasing my question to mean web apps. At the moment I happened to be thinking in terms of mod_perl handlers. 4. Am I wasting my time with OO and design patterns if the goal was writing a mod_perl app? I guess it depends on what you mean by a mod_perl app. If you mean a web app that runs on top of mod_perl, then you should use good OO because I suspect you'll want to expand that app and do things later with it which means the cost of maintenance is an issue not just the speed. If, however, you are writing some custom auth handler or something like that, then the efficacy of sticking to OO is less because (A) Yes, you could lose some performance in some cases, and (B) Because the auth handler is likely to be so tiny that OO would not make sense. OO is better for larger programs so that they can be broken down more easily. I can see the distinction now. seems obvious now that I hear you say it :) PS Caveat: Don't go overboard on design patterns. GoF book was written with typical apps in mind. Web apps were not in their view scope at the time. Web apps do operate differently to regular apps and the design patterns or idioms you might wish to use may be different. Since as the GoF book puts it, all patterns have their advantages and also their consequences. Those consequences may be OK for a regular app but not for a web app. There have been tons of articles and books on Design Patterns since GoF Any specific web design patterns book you would recommend? book was out. It's good to absorb GoF, but don't use it to hammer everything because you've read something new and cool. Asking your questions certainly shows you seem to understand that anyway, so I am probably preaching to the choir. :) Again, thank you for some terrific and valuable insights. I feel I got a lot more than I bargained for and that's why I love this LIST ! bakki -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
[OT] Design Patterns in mod_perl apps?
I am studying mod_perl and the GoF Desing Patterns book in parallel and had a few questions I would like to throw to the list. 1. Is there anyone who is using GoF design patterns (eg. Chain of Responsibility for handlers) in their mod_perl apps? 2. Is the overhead of OO Perl acceptable for mod_perl apps, generally speaking? 3. Are there any new patterns useful for mod_perl apps? 4. Am I wasting my time with OO and design patterns if the goal was writing a mod_perl app? Thank you. bakki -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
Re: [OT] Design Patterns in mod_perl apps?
"Ken Y. Clark" wrote: 1. Is there anyone who is using GoF design patterns (eg. Chain of Responsibility for handlers) in their mod_perl apps? Well, I don't want to sound stupid, but I don't know what you're talking about. That's one of the hazards of having a degree in English and not CS, I guess? :) Oops! Sorry. The book is 'Design Patterns' by Erich Gamma, et al and the four authors are known as the Gang of Four in OO circles I believe. Design Patterns "capture solutions that have developed and evolved over time". The main theme is to promote CODE REUSE via decoupling of classes. The book talks about 'message flow' in your app vs. 'data flow' which makes classes dependent on each other and reduce their REUSE potential. I am finding it fascinating. bakki -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
Re: Need Some Help
"J. J. Horner" wrote: There is a second edition already? This book hasn't been out 2 years yet. You guys are quick!! Not according to O'Reilly web site. I only see the first ed. there. -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
Re: Mod_perl tutorials
Both would be great. gnome.org has a large number of tutorials on all aspects of gtk and gnome programming and so a newbie could get started just by the stuff at the site. While mod_perl has some great resources like the Eagle book and the guide, there is something to be said for having on line resources all in one place. bakki Nathan Torkington wrote: J. J. Horner writes: What is the story on these tutorials? Is it something you can distribute, or did most of it come off of the top your head? Tutorials seems like a deadend for effort. I've had zero (0) responses to my offer of my "Introduction to mod_perl" tutorial. If nobody's interested in increasing the number of mod_perl programmers through tutorials, then the only other option I can think of is strategically-placed success stories. I know that perl.oreilly.com is making a point of collecting Perl success stories and is always hungry for more. They won't convert the unwashed there, though. It'd sure be nice to have a WebTechniques special issue on mod_perl. Hint, hint, Randal :-) Nat -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
Re: Certification
The need for certification is a symptom of different problem, which is that the interview process has become too casual. Interviewers are uncomfortable asking the tought questions so they resort to asking the candidate about his hobbies etc. Many years ago a friend of mine who interviewed for HP told me that he had to take a test and was grilled intensely by serveral engineers in sequence before getting hired. Some one even made him solve a partial differential equation on the spot! (this was an RD job) He said that he had never sweated that much during any of his exams in college :) I think the best system might be for each company to design a 15 minute test with a dozen questions skewed to their particular needs and see how the applicant does. It could even be a slightly longer take home test with follow up during the interview process. Tougher the interview, the better the guage of how the person will do under pressure. The certification process is a responsibility for which the companies are passing the buck on (literally speaking) to the testing firms. bakki -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT - saddb, presentaion layer
I have two slightly offtopic questions. 1. I noticed that SAP - "On October 5, 2000, at Linux World SAP DB was announced to be made available as Open Source software using the GNU General Public License for the database kernel and the GNU Lesser General Public License for clients and programming interfaces." There is even a DBD::SAP_DB. I was wondering if anyone has experience using sapdb under modperl and would care to share your experiences with it. How does it compare to Oracle? 2. Has any one worked on a javascript presentation layer to run under modperl where one can create windows, menus, tree widgets etc (like Perl/Tk). I know you can use javascript with CGI.pm but I am not sure if this is the right place to create presentation layer. thank you, bakki -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
Re: [OT - saddb, presentaion layer
Gunther Birznieks wrote: You may want to look at SmartWorker's (www.smartworker.org) widget generation technology. It's a bit obtuse (IMHO) but it's also pretty cool. They worked it up to create opendesk (www.opendesk.com) unfortunately, the cool lookandfeel of open desk and all the nice fancy dHTML virtual desktop technology is closed source. :( But it is based on smartworker which is open source and based on mod_perl. :) Thank you for that link! It's cool. I downloaded smartworker which seems very much what I had in mind. It seems that opendesk.com-v1 is open source too. I haven't seen the license yet. I got that as well. I am going to play with this for a while and see how it works out. PS: BTW your early CGI books were great and got me interested in Perl :) best, bakki -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
suexec: disabled?
I recently upgraded to perl5.6 and added php4 to my apache server. I don't know what I did wrong but I am getting the following errors. If I do a httpd -l I get... suexec: disabled; invalid wrapper /usr/local/apache/bin/suexec Also I cannot browse anything in htdocs becuase I get a "You don't have permission to access / on this server." and the error log contains.. 192.168.0.252 - - [31/Aug/2000:17:13:35 -0400] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 403 279 Where do I start to look for this permissions problem? The htdocs looks is owned by 'nobody'. An unrelated msg I get when I start the httpd .. DBI.pm: defined(@array) is deprecated at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0/Apache/DBI.pm line 135. [Thu Aug 31 17:12:53 2000] DBI.pm: (Maybe you should just omit the defined()?) I have installed ApacheDBI version 0.87. I would appreciate any pointers. bakki -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
Apache1.3.12+mod_perl1.24+php4 doesn't compile.
I am building these separately as follows... 1../configure --with-apache=../apache_1.3.12, make, make install in the php4 tree. 2. perl Makefile.PL etc, make, make test, make install in the mod_perl tree. 3. ./configure --activate-module etc, make in the apache tree...which is where I get.. gcc -c -I../.. -I/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/i386-linux/CORE -I../../os/unix -I../../include -DLINUX=2 -DMOD_PERL -DUSE_PERL_SSI -Dbool=char -DHAS_BOOL -I/usr/local/include -DUSE_HSREGEX -DUSE_EXPAT -I../../lib/expat-lite -DNO_DL_NEEDED `../../apaci` mod_php4.c mod_php4.c:28: zend.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:29: php.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:30: php_variables.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:31: SAPI.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:48: php_ini.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:49: php_globals.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:50: SAPI.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:51: php_main.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:53: zend_compile.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:54: zend_execute.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:55: zend_highlight.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:56: zend_indent.h: No such file or directory mod_php4.c:58: ext/standard/php_standard.h: No such file or directory make[4]: *** [mod_php4.o] Error 1 make[3]: *** [all] Error 1 make[2]: *** [subdirs] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/apache_1.3.12/src' make[1]: *** [build-std] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/apache_1.3.12' make: *** [build] Error 2 I am a bit lost here and was wondering why the Apache make process is trying to compile mod_php4.c. Isn't that done in step 1 above? I thought that the php4 make and make install does this and copies the object file to the apache/src/modules/php4/ dirctory. I have read the Eagle book and scoured the archives but haven't found anything which explains this to me. Appreciate any help. bakki -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
Re: Apache1.3.12+mod_perl1.24+php4 doesn't compile.
"Ahrendt, Robert" wrote: I am doing exactly that from inside .makepl_args.mod_perl. bakki try just prepining the httpd in mod_perl dir. i.e. PREP_HTTPD=1 then under apache activate both the libperl.a and libphp4.a -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
[OT-slightly] doc management
I am developing a simple web based document management app and would like any input or critique of the following technique. I am thinking of using a java applet/application at the client end to be able to display things such as tree widgets, tiff viewer etc. Also the users, once authenticated from a db will stay connected all day long. So I am wondering if it would be better to establish a socket connection to a middle tier daemon after authetication or handle the whole thing through a mod_perl handler. Has anyone done an app where java applets talk to perl/mod_perl in doing such things as populating the tree view widget etc. Is this done better through seriaized java objets, or can these be handled at the server side by mod_perl? or will it be more seamless if servelets are used for the middle tier? I am sort of flying at 10,000 feet and don't appreciated the nuances yet. It'll be a great help to me if someone who has 'been there and done that' can shed some light on this. BROWSERAPACHE MIDDLE DB login -http mod_perl - | | | | V V java app --socket--[EDMS app]--- (DB) [explorer like] perl or servelet? OR login -http mod_perl -[EDMS app]--- (DB) | ^ mod_perl handlers | | V | java app [explorer like] I am wondering which method would have better session management (with security down to document or even tiff annotations level), db handle caching etc. IF this is off topic then please email me with whatever thoughts/advice which will be greatly appreciated. -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
mod_perl on Cobalt servers?
I would like to hear from anyone who has had some experience with mod_perl on Cobalt's Qube2(MIPS RISC) or Raq3 (x86) microservers. * How well does this work? * Any differences between the Qube Raq relative to mod_perl? * Any caveats? * How well does it work for virtual domains? * Does it void warranty? The Raq3 is supposed to support 200 virtual domains but I am sure it is without mod_perl compiled in. What is a practical number of virt domains with mod_perl which can be run on this box? I have seen some blurbs about unsupported software (ie. anything not shipped with the box) voiding Cobalt warranty. Has anyone experienced problems with support from Cobalt on mod_perl enabled Qubes? Thanks in advance, bakki -- _ _ .-. |M|S| Bakki Kudva |D|_|a|y| Navaco |o|m|n|s|\420 Pasadena Drive |c|e|a|t| \\ Erie, PA 16505-1037 |u|n|g|e| \\ http://www.navaco.com/ | |T|e|m| \ ph: 814-833-2592 """""""""""""""""" fax:603-947-5747 e-Docs
Re: [mod_perl audio tutorials]
Sander van Zoest wrote on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 2:45 AM: His article works, but isn't entirely accurate as I have already e-mailed Lincoln Stein about the issues. He claimed to discuss them in his follow up article. Could you please email me a copy of your msg to Lincoln about the inaccuracies? Most players support m3u's and icecast. I would suggest encoding the audio in either 24kbps. (33kbps isn't a valid bitrate, you probably meant 32kbps) I did mean 32kbps. How low can you go to get acceptable quality for just voice? Most information in voice is less than 3,500Hz or so I think. If you sampled that at atleast 7-8 KHz it would represent a bit rate of 64KHz without compression. I would suggest just creating a bunch of m3u files that can then be played while looking at the slides. icecast is usually used for radio like streaming, not on-demand streams. This means you can have a link to the appropriate m3u file on the html page containing the corresponding slide correct? So with this approach the only thing you won't have is automatic advance to the next slide when audio finishes, which should be no big deal. The user still can manually navigate thro the slides. This is easy enough that I can set up a couple of trial slides at my web site. Bakki Kudva Navaco (Electronic Document Management Solutions) phone: (814) 833-2592 fax: (603) 947-5747 http://www.navaco.com/
Re: [mod_perl audio tutorials] (was Re: [OT slightly] mod_perl developers (do they exist?)
Stas Bekman wrote on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 2:59 AM : Well, I've just installed the G2 Player and tried it. Yes it's quite good. May be you are right and it would work. So are you going to give it a whirl? I'd love to give it a try. Couple of starting points. 1. Conferences will not be a good source for the material. So we'll have to find an alternative. We may have to compile this incrementally, slide by slide. The slides/audio files can be created by the author, (who can be the 'guru'? Would you have the time to do it?) or I can have some one just read from a script. 2. I am not sure what the SUN site uses at the server side. We can do ours using mod_perl ofcourse unless something like it already exists. I like the "last slide", "next slide" buttons to which we may be able to add "last chapter#", "next chapter#" buttons to make the presentation more interactive. With some help I would be willing to roll this out myself. My web site is at Verio. So mod_perl won't be possible there, though I would have loved to host the site there. If we can do it with CGI may be it can be hosted there. The simplest way to put audio would have been with the bgsound tag and .wav, or .au files. Unfortunately this works only for IE. Don't know if Netscape v4.72 supports it yet. Any ideas here? bakki Bakki Kudva Navaco (Electronic Document Management Solutions) phone: (814) 833-2592 fax: (603) 947-5747 http://www.navaco.com/
Re: [mod_perl audio tutorials]
Jeffrey W. Baker wrote on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 12:04 PM: Consider just this once that HTML is not the preferred way to deliver this kind of content. Perhaps the tutorial could be in the form of an MP3 file, with instructions to turn to the next slide periodically. The slide could be HTML scaffolds around an image. Anyway, this has the advantage of following standards and also allowing the user the freedom to move the audio stream and slides independently. I like the idea of using MP3 but not being MP3 savy wan't sure that clients support streaming MP3. Also the encoding would have to be at less than 33kbps so it will play properly over modem lines. The slide/chapter info could be encoded into the ID3 tags and users could request any slide from the playlist. I'll have to dig a bit into Mike Oliphant's Grip or LAME to do the encoding. I am wondering if icecast software would work well for this application. bakki Bakki Kudva Navaco (Electronic Document Management Solutions) phone: (814) 833-2592 fax: (603) 947-5747 http://www.navaco.com/
Re: [OT slightly] mod_perl developers (do they exist?)
Hi Stas, My suggestion would be to capture one of two of these tutorial sessions on audio tape(assuming employer consent), edit and sync them to a bunch of HTML slides and put the whole shebang on the Net...preferably right next to Stas' great guide. Some nifty examples of this are at... Hmm, that's what ORA did at the last Perl conference, although not with mod_perl talks... They have prepared the audio/video recording of the most popular sessions and made them available to the public. Not for free of course. You probably could have done the same at the ApacheCon, but it's over already. Your next chance is the summer's OpenSource conference in Monterey and the autumn's next ApacheCon in London. As I recall you gave the talk on mod_perl. Would you consent to have your tutorial session recorded for this purpose? Any other organizational permissions needed? I wonder if everything at the OpenSource conference becomes O'Reilly's copyright. bakki Bakki Kudva Navaco (Electronic Document Management Solutions) phone: (814) 833-2592 fax: (603) 947-5747 http://www.navaco.com/
Re: .makepl_args.mod_perl
Thank you, Eric. Looks like the Eagle book has an error then. Is there an errata for it some where? I don't see it on their home page. bakki A newbie question. Though I have successfully built mod_perl from command line parameters I decided to try the .makepl_args.mod_perl file method from the Eagle book. I had EVERYTHING=1 as the first line in this file but when I run I get... It's makepl_args.mod_perl, not .makepl_args.mod_perl (no leading dot) -- Eric
Re: .makepl_args.mod_perl
Also I noted that in the guide most paramters are listed in the blue boxes as PERL-* instead of PERL_*. This could be confusing to newcomers. Excuse me? There is no a single PERL- in there. I am not sure what is going on here. You are right! In Netscape it appears correctly as underscores. But in IE5 on my machine it does use hyphens everywhere! (IE5 bug? Could someone please verify this?) But when I cut paste from it I do get the correct form "PERL_HEADER_PARSER" as an example. Just an interesting aside here is that meaning of the word hyphen (according to Webster) from Greek hyph'hen meaning "under one" would seem to mean the underscore while the punctuation mark for hyphen is '-'. Finally is there a way to find out which hooks are actually turned on in a compiled HTTPD? http://perl.apache.org/guide/install.html#Discovering_whether_some_option_ Hope this helps! Thank you Stas...sorry I missed that. bakki
Re: .makepl_args.mod_perl
A big THANK YOU to all for clarifying the usage of this file. bakki So both work, depending on where the file is. I use the .makepl... form, in my $HOME dir, so that I don't have to edit a new one for every new version. :) David McCabe Unix SysAdmin/Peon
