Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
This is really exciting and I'm looking forward to trying it out! It will be nice to run the same ASP.NET stack on Windows and Linux :) On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 8:44 PM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com wrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is that it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello worlds/second where as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent they supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have not been able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv which is pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get much better performance in windows and similar performance in linux. @Nikita I will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some more pull requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com wrote: Hello Nikita! Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out! Miguel On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.comwrote: I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production for half of a year). Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so it would be great to wrap something like https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement. Regards, Nikita 2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com: Wow! This is such great news!! As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time is running lower these days. Hope it helps, Marcelo. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list -- Studying for the Turing test ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
Hi, On a tangent... It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing behind Socket code. Could that be something to investigate? Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development. -- Roope Kangas On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote: So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is that it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello worlds/second where as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent they supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have not been able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv which is pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get much better performance in windows and similar performance in linux. @Nikita I will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some more pull requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com wrote: Hello Nikita! Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out! Miguel On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com wrote: I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production for half of a year). Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so it would be great to wrap something like https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement. Regards, Nikita 2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com: Wow! This is such great news!! As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've developed Fos on a very permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time is running lower these days. Hope it helps, Marcelo. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com wrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list -- Studying for the Turing test ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
Hello, On the surface, it sounds like an interesting idea and I would love to see someone prototype this. Today our async methods on the socket class delegate the waiting and waiting/wakeup capabilities to the C runtime and there they use a per-platform dispatching system (epoll, kqueue or regular poll depending on the platform). Miguel On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Roope Kangas ro...@grandcrugames.comwrote: Hi, On a tangent... It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing behind Socket code. Could that be something to investigate? Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development. -- Roope Kangas On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote: So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is that it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello worlds/second where as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent they supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have not been able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv which is pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get much better performance in windows and similar performance in linux. @Nikita I will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some more pull requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello Nikita! Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out! Miguel On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.comwrote: I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production for half of a year). Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so it would be great to wrap something like https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement. Regards, Nikita 2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com: Wow! This is such great news!! As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time is running lower these days. Hope it helps, Marcelo. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list -- Studying for the Turing test ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
I use it on Linux and have used it on Windows, but have never tried it on Unix variants. -- From: Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com Sent: 15/05/2014 00:55 To: Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com Cc: mono-devel mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com Subject: Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext Fabulous! Does this one run on Unix? On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com wrote: Wow! This is such great news!! As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time is running lower these days. Hope it helps, Marcelo. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
Hello, Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide. So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this is done. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :) On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas ro...@grandcrugames.comwrote: Hi, On a tangent... It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing behind Socket code. Could that be something to investigate? Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development. -- Roope Kangas On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote: So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is that it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello worlds/second where as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent they supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have not been able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv which is pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get much better performance in windows and similar performance in linux. @Nikita I will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some more pull requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello Nikita! Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out! Miguel On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.comwrote: I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production for half of a year). Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so it would be great to wrap something like https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement. Regards, Nikita 2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com: Wow! This is such great news!! As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time is running lower these days. Hope it helps, Marcelo. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list -- Studying for the Turing test ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
I suspect that having libuv behind socket code won't help much, since most
of socket performance problems are related to the fact that
BeginSend/Recieve, event loop and AsyncCallback run in different threads.
Because of that we have overhead even with simple
void ReadNext()
{
_socket.BeginRecieve(buf, blablabla, res=
{
_socket.EndRecieve(res);
ReadNext();
});
}
On windows that works fine because of IOCP behind that abstraction that is
designed to be used with thread pool. *nix platforms doesn't have anything
like IOCP, only epoll/kqueue, so for actual performance improvement one
have to use single-threaded approach (with round-robin connection dispatch
between workers), when all I/O operations and event loop run in single
thread.
2014-05-15 20:55 GMT+04:00 Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com:
Hello,
Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide.
So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this is
done.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.comwrote:
Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :)
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas ro...@grandcrugames.comwrote:
Hi,
On a tangent...
It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing behind
Socket code.
Could that be something to investigate?
Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development.
--
Roope Kangas
On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote:
So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is that it
seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello worlds/second where as
its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent they
supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have not been
able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv which is
pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get much
better performance in windows and similar performance in linux. @Nikita I
will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some more pull
requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote:
Hello Nikita!
Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out!
Miguel
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.comwrote:
I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http
server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now
it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now it
has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production for
half of a year).
Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI and
Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying
implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so it
would be great to wrap something like
https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket support
and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement.
Regards,
Nikita
2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com:
Wow! This is such great news!!
As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've
developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive
license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix.
I
would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time
is running lower these days.
Hope it helps,
Marcelo.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com
wrote:
Hello guys!
Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext:
http://github.com/aspnet/home
This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono
(does not even use System.Web.dll!).
So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has
been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server
can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing
us
for years.
So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that
they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin
folks
decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a
couple
of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX.
But this is a great time to:
- Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit
contributions that will make the software run on Unix.
- Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us
have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our
bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to
mono).
- Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a
spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on
Unix than
you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David
Miller
would expect nothing less from us.
Hugs and love,
Miguel
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
I think we should have something like Mono.Sockets with abstraction of
event loop and I/O code based on libuv or whatever, and build classes like
HttpListener on top of it.
2014-05-15 21:30 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
I suspect that having libuv behind socket code won't help much, since most
of socket performance problems are related to the fact that
BeginSend/Recieve, event loop and AsyncCallback run in different threads.
Because of that we have overhead even with simple
void ReadNext()
{
_socket.BeginRecieve(buf, blablabla, res=
{
_socket.EndRecieve(res);
ReadNext();
});
}
On windows that works fine because of IOCP behind that abstraction that is
designed to be used with thread pool. *nix platforms doesn't have anything
like IOCP, only epoll/kqueue, so for actual performance improvement one
have to use single-threaded approach (with round-robin connection dispatch
between workers), when all I/O operations and event loop run in single
thread.
2014-05-15 20:55 GMT+04:00 Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com:
Hello,
Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide.
So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this is
done.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.comwrote:
Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :)
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas
ro...@grandcrugames.comwrote:
Hi,
On a tangent...
It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing behind
Socket code.
Could that be something to investigate?
Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development.
--
Roope Kangas
On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote:
So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is that
it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello worlds/second where
as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent they
supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have not been
able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv which is
pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get much
better performance in windows and similar performance in linux. @Nikita I
will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some more pull
requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote:
Hello Nikita!
Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out!
Miguel
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.comwrote:
I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http
server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now
it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now it
has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production for
half of a year).
Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI and
Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying
implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so
it
would be great to wrap something like
https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket support
and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement.
Regards,
Nikita
2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com:
Wow! This is such great news!!
As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've
developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive
license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on
*nix. I
would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare
time
is running lower these days.
Hope it helps,
Marcelo.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza
mig...@xamarin.com wrote:
Hello guys!
Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext:
http://github.com/aspnet/home
This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono
(does not even use System.Web.dll!).
So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has
been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the
server
can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been
plaguing us
for years.
So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that
they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin
folks
decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a
couple
of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX.
But this is a great time to:
- Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit
contributions that will make the software run on Unix.
- Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us
have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of
our
bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to
mono).
- Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
That would make sense as the models are different. Also that libuv wrapper
from looking looks fairly promising.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com wrote:
I think we should have something like Mono.Sockets with abstraction of
event loop and I/O code based on libuv or whatever, and build classes like
HttpListener on top of it.
2014-05-15 21:30 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
I suspect that having libuv behind socket code won't help much, since most
of socket performance problems are related to the fact that
BeginSend/Recieve, event loop and AsyncCallback run in different threads.
Because of that we have overhead even with simple
void ReadNext()
{
_socket.BeginRecieve(buf, blablabla, res=
{
_socket.EndRecieve(res);
ReadNext();
});
}
On windows that works fine because of IOCP behind that abstraction that
is designed to be used with thread pool. *nix platforms doesn't have
anything like IOCP, only epoll/kqueue, so for actual performance
improvement one have to use single-threaded approach (with round-robin
connection dispatch between workers), when all I/O operations and event
loop run in single thread.
2014-05-15 20:55 GMT+04:00 Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com:
Hello,
Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide.
So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this is
done.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.comwrote:
Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :)
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas
ro...@grandcrugames.comwrote:
Hi,
On a tangent...
It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing behind
Socket code.
Could that be something to investigate?
Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development.
--
Roope Kangas
On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote:
So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is that
it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello worlds/second where
as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent they
supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have not
been
able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv which is
pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get much
better performance in windows and similar performance in linux. @Nikita I
will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some more
pull
requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza
mig...@xamarin.comwrote:
Hello Nikita!
Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out!
Miguel
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov
kek...@gmail.comwrote:
I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http
server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now
it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now it
has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production for
half of a year).
Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI and
Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying
implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so
it
would be great to wrap something like
https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket
support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement.
Regards,
Nikita
2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com:
Wow! This is such great news!!
As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've
developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive
license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on
*nix. I
would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare
time
is running lower these days.
Hope it helps,
Marcelo.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza
mig...@xamarin.com wrote:
Hello guys!
Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext:
http://github.com/aspnet/home
This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono
(does not even use System.Web.dll!).
So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has
been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the
server
can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been
plaguing us
for years.
So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that
they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin
folks
decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a
couple
of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX.
But this is a great time to:
- Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit
contributions that will make the software run on Unix.
- Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help
us have a story that
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
There are some existing wrappers:
https://github.com/kersny/libuv-csharp - Dead, no commits for 3 years
https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp - uses Task (
https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp/blob/master/Examples/TcpAsync.cs ), so
it should have same problems with thread pool
2014-05-15 21:41 GMT+04:00 Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com:
That would make sense as the models are different. Also that libuv wrapper
from looking looks fairly promising.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com wrote:
I think we should have something like Mono.Sockets with abstraction of
event loop and I/O code based on libuv or whatever, and build classes like
HttpListener on top of it.
2014-05-15 21:30 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
I suspect that having libuv behind socket code won't help much, since
most of socket performance problems are related to the fact that
BeginSend/Recieve, event loop and AsyncCallback run in different threads.
Because of that we have overhead even with simple
void ReadNext()
{
_socket.BeginRecieve(buf, blablabla, res=
{
_socket.EndRecieve(res);
ReadNext();
});
}
On windows that works fine because of IOCP behind that abstraction that
is designed to be used with thread pool. *nix platforms doesn't have
anything like IOCP, only epoll/kqueue, so for actual performance
improvement one have to use single-threaded approach (with round-robin
connection dispatch between workers), when all I/O operations and event
loop run in single thread.
2014-05-15 20:55 GMT+04:00 Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com:
Hello,
Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide.
So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this is
done.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.comwrote:
Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :)
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas ro...@grandcrugames.com
wrote:
Hi,
On a tangent...
It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing
behind Socket code.
Could that be something to investigate?
Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development.
--
Roope Kangas
On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote:
So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is that
it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello worlds/second
where
as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent they
supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have not
been
able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv which is
pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get
much
better performance in windows and similar performance in linux. @Nikita I
will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some more
pull
requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza
mig...@xamarin.comwrote:
Hello Nikita!
Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out!
Miguel
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov
kek...@gmail.comwrote:
I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http
server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now
it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now
it
has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production
for
half of a year).
Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI
and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying
implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol),
so it
would be great to wrap something like
https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket
support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement.
Regards,
Nikita
2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com:
Wow! This is such great news!!
As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've
developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very
permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with
Mono
on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this,
because my
spare time is running lower these days.
Hope it helps,
Marcelo.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza
mig...@xamarin.com wrote:
Hello guys!
Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext:
http://github.com/aspnet/home
This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono
(does not even use System.Web.dll!).
So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has
been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the
server
can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been
plaguing us
for years.
So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that
they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of
Xamarin folks
decided
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
Now I'm digging the source code and it seems that second one is quite close
to what is needed.
2014-05-15 21:51 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
There are some existing wrappers:
https://github.com/kersny/libuv-csharp - Dead, no commits for 3 years
https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp - uses Task (
https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp/blob/master/Examples/TcpAsync.cs ), so
it should have same problems with thread pool
2014-05-15 21:41 GMT+04:00 Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com:
That would make sense as the models are different. Also that libuv wrapper
from looking looks fairly promising.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.comwrote:
I think we should have something like Mono.Sockets with abstraction of
event loop and I/O code based on libuv or whatever, and build classes like
HttpListener on top of it.
2014-05-15 21:30 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
I suspect that having libuv behind socket code won't help much, since
most of socket performance problems are related to the fact that
BeginSend/Recieve, event loop and AsyncCallback run in different threads.
Because of that we have overhead even with simple
void ReadNext()
{
_socket.BeginRecieve(buf, blablabla, res=
{
_socket.EndRecieve(res);
ReadNext();
});
}
On windows that works fine because of IOCP behind that abstraction that
is designed to be used with thread pool. *nix platforms doesn't have
anything like IOCP, only epoll/kqueue, so for actual performance
improvement one have to use single-threaded approach (with round-robin
connection dispatch between workers), when all I/O operations and event
loop run in single thread.
2014-05-15 20:55 GMT+04:00 Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com:
Hello,
Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide.
So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this
is done.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young
gregoryyou...@gmail.comwrote:
Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :)
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas
ro...@grandcrugames.com wrote:
Hi,
On a tangent...
It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing
behind Socket code.
Could that be something to investigate?
Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development.
--
Roope Kangas
On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote:
So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is
that it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello
worlds/second
where as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent
they supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have
not
been able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv
which
is pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get
much better performance in windows and similar performance in linux.
@Nikita I will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send
some
more pull requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com
wrote:
Hello Nikita!
Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out!
Miguel
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com
wrote:
I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in
http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since
for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I
know
(now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in
production for half of a year).
Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI
and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of
underlying
implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol),
so it
would be great to wrap something like
https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket
support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement.
Regards,
Nikita
2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com:
Wow! This is such great news!!
As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've
developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very
permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running
with Mono
on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this,
because my
spare time is running lower these days.
Hope it helps,
Marcelo.
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza
mig...@xamarin.com wrote:
Hello guys!
Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext:
http://github.com/aspnet/home
This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono
(does not even use System.Web.dll!).
So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has
been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the
server
can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been
plaguing us
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
The main problem that someone have to implement HTTP-server and
websocket-handling code on top of that, since existing implementations
(Nowin, websocket implementations on top of XSockets, SuperSockets.NET,
etc) are bound to thread pool model. I think it's much better to find some
existing HTTP/WebSocket server library, wrap it and use for hosting
ASP.NETvNext applications. It will safe a lot of pain. Althrough it's
possible to
patch something like Nowin in a way, that it would be able to use both
models and switch between them.
2014-05-15 21:59 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
Now I'm digging the source code and it seems that second one is quite
close to what is needed.
2014-05-15 21:51 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
There are some existing wrappers:
https://github.com/kersny/libuv-csharp - Dead, no commits for 3 years
https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp - uses Task (
https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp/blob/master/Examples/TcpAsync.cs ),
so it should have same problems with thread pool
2014-05-15 21:41 GMT+04:00 Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com:
That would make sense as the models are different. Also that libuv
wrapper from looking looks fairly promising.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.comwrote:
I think we should have something like Mono.Sockets with abstraction of
event loop and I/O code based on libuv or whatever, and build classes like
HttpListener on top of it.
2014-05-15 21:30 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
I suspect that having libuv behind socket code won't help much, since
most of socket performance problems are related to the fact that
BeginSend/Recieve, event loop and AsyncCallback run in different threads.
Because of that we have overhead even with simple
void ReadNext()
{
_socket.BeginRecieve(buf, blablabla, res=
{
_socket.EndRecieve(res);
ReadNext();
});
}
On windows that works fine because of IOCP behind that abstraction
that is designed to be used with thread pool. *nix platforms doesn't have
anything like IOCP, only epoll/kqueue, so for actual performance
improvement one have to use single-threaded approach (with round-robin
connection dispatch between workers), when all I/O operations and event
loop run in single thread.
2014-05-15 20:55 GMT+04:00 Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com:
Hello,
Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide.
So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this
is done.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young
gregoryyou...@gmail.comwrote:
Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :)
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas
ro...@grandcrugames.com wrote:
Hi,
On a tangent...
It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing
behind Socket code.
Could that be something to investigate?
Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development.
--
Roope Kangas
On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote:
So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is
that it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello
worlds/second
where as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent
they supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I
have not
been able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv
which
is pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to
get
much better performance in windows and similar performance in linux.
@Nikita I will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send
some
more pull requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza
mig...@xamarin.com wrote:
Hello Nikita!
Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out!
Miguel
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov
kek...@gmail.com wrote:
I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in
http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since
for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I
know
(now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in
production for half of a year).
Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI
and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of
underlying
implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol),
so it
would be great to wrap something like
https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket
support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement.
Regards,
Nikita
2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com:
Wow! This is such great news!!
As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've
developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very
permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running
with Mono
on *nix. I would very much love
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
Would it be possible to make the socket use libuv to listen on multiple
threads for events then just perform whatever work is needed right then and
there instead of scheduling it into the thread pool? This feels closer to
what IOCP are like on Windows though the thread overhead is higher so there
should not be too many threads whereas there are thousands of IO ports. The
problem I see is the Mono having a single thread listening for epoll events
and putting work on the thread pool so if that can be eliminated, we would
be able to use native implementations on top of it for the FastCGI/OWIN
parts.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com wrote:
The main problem that someone have to implement HTTP-server and
websocket-handling code on top of that, since existing implementations
(Nowin, websocket implementations on top of XSockets, SuperSockets.NET,
etc) are bound to thread pool model. I think it's much better to find some
existing HTTP/WebSocket server library, wrap it and use for hosting
ASP.NET vNext applications. It will safe a lot of pain. Althrough it's
possible to patch something like Nowin in a way, that it would be able to
use both models and switch between them.
2014-05-15 21:59 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
Now I'm digging the source code and it seems that second one is quite
close to what is needed.
2014-05-15 21:51 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
There are some existing wrappers:
https://github.com/kersny/libuv-csharp - Dead, no commits for 3 years
https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp - uses Task (
https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp/blob/master/Examples/TcpAsync.cs ),
so it should have same problems with thread pool
2014-05-15 21:41 GMT+04:00 Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com:
That would make sense as the models are different. Also that libuv
wrapper from looking looks fairly promising.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.comwrote:
I think we should have something like Mono.Sockets with abstraction of
event loop and I/O code based on libuv or whatever, and build classes like
HttpListener on top of it.
2014-05-15 21:30 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
I suspect that having libuv behind socket code won't help much, since
most of socket performance problems are related to the fact that
BeginSend/Recieve, event loop and AsyncCallback run in different threads.
Because of that we have overhead even with simple
void ReadNext()
{
_socket.BeginRecieve(buf, blablabla, res=
{
_socket.EndRecieve(res);
ReadNext();
});
}
On windows that works fine because of IOCP behind that abstraction
that is designed to be used with thread pool. *nix platforms doesn't have
anything like IOCP, only epoll/kqueue, so for actual performance
improvement one have to use single-threaded approach (with round-robin
connection dispatch between workers), when all I/O operations and event
loop run in single thread.
2014-05-15 20:55 GMT+04:00 Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com:
Hello,
Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide.
So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this
is done.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :)
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas
ro...@grandcrugames.com wrote:
Hi,
On a tangent...
It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing
behind Socket code.
Could that be something to investigate?
Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development.
--
Roope Kangas
On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com
wrote:
So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is
that it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello
worlds/second
where as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching
libevent
they supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I
have not
been able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv
which
is pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to
get
much better performance in windows and similar performance in linux.
@Nikita I will hopefully have some time next week and likely will
send some
more pull requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza
mig...@xamarin.com wrote:
Hello Nikita!
Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out!
Miguel
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov
kek...@gmail.com wrote:
I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in
http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since
for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I
know
(now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in
production for half of a year).
Although both evhttp-sharp and
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
Hi,
I guess having some mono.sockets lib would do the trick too. Just hoping for
good libuv/libev support since not everybody is doing http servers. And the
existing libuv/ev wrappes did not look very convincing, at least when I last
had a look.
Our not-yet-globally launched mmo game http://supernauts.com runs on top of
mono. (Some gameplay vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84lO20G-RWc)
Supernauts just shards players to separate vm/servers. Which is fine also :)
mitigates also other problems caused by our sticky little programmer fingers.
Anyway, this asp.next vnext w libuv/ev sounds very cool indeed! Awesome!
--
Roope Kangas
On 15.5.2014, at 21.12, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com wrote:
The main problem that someone have to implement HTTP-server and
websocket-handling code on top of that, since existing implementations
(Nowin, websocket implementations on top of XSockets, SuperSockets.NET, etc)
are bound to thread pool model. I think it's much better to find some
existing HTTP/WebSocket server library, wrap it and use for hosting ASP.NET
vNext applications. It will safe a lot of pain. Althrough it's possible to
patch something like Nowin in a way, that it would be able to use both models
and switch between them.
2014-05-15 21:59 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
Now I'm digging the source code and it seems that second one is quite close
to what is needed.
2014-05-15 21:51 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
There are some existing wrappers:
https://github.com/kersny/libuv-csharp - Dead, no commits for 3 years
https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp - uses Task (
https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp/blob/master/Examples/TcpAsync.cs ), so
it should have same problems with thread pool
2014-05-15 21:41 GMT+04:00 Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com:
That would make sense as the models are different. Also that libuv wrapper
from looking looks fairly promising.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com wrote:
I think we should have something like Mono.Sockets with abstraction of
event loop and I/O code based on libuv or whatever, and build classes
like HttpListener on top of it.
2014-05-15 21:30 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com:
I suspect that having libuv behind socket code won't help much, since
most of socket performance problems are related to the fact that
BeginSend/Recieve, event loop and AsyncCallback run in different
threads. Because of that we have overhead even with simple
void ReadNext()
{
_socket.BeginRecieve(buf, blablabla, res=
{
_socket.EndRecieve(res);
ReadNext();
});
}
On windows that works fine because of IOCP behind that abstraction that
is designed to be used with thread pool. *nix platforms doesn't have
anything like IOCP, only epoll/kqueue, so for actual performance
improvement one have to use single-threaded approach (with round-robin
connection dispatch between workers), when all I/O operations and event
loop run in single thread.
2014-05-15 20:55 GMT+04:00 Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.com:
Hello,
Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide.
So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this is
done.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :)
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas
ro...@grandcrugames.com wrote:
Hi,
On a tangent...
It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing
behind Socket code.
Could that be something to investigate?
Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development.
--
Roope Kangas
On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young gregoryyou...@gmail.com wrote:
So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is
that it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello
worlds/second where as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From
researching libevent they supposedly now use IOCP in windows and
should be better but I have not been able to make this happen. It
may also be worth looking at libuv which is pretty close to a drop
in replacement for libevent as it seems to get much better
performance in windows and similar performance in linux. @Nikita I
will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some
more pull requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza
mig...@xamarin.com wrote:
Hello Nikita!
Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out!
Miguel
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov
kek...@gmail.com wrote:
I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in
http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for
now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I
know (now it has host implementation for
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
Wow! This is such great news!! As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've developed Foshttp://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time is running lower these days. Hope it helps, Marcelo. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production for half of a year). Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so it would be great to wrap something like https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement. Regards, Nikita 2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com: Wow! This is such great news!! As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time is running lower these days. Hope it helps, Marcelo. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
s/built-in http server/built-in http server wrapper/ 2014-05-14 19:40 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com: I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production for half of a year). Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so it would be great to wrap something like https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement. Regards, Nikita 2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com: Wow! This is such great news!! As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time is running lower these days. Hope it helps, Marcelo. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
Fabulous! Does this one run on Unix? On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com wrote: Wow! This is such great news!! As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time is running lower these days. Hope it helps, Marcelo. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
Hello Nikita! Your approach looks fabulous! I look forward to trying it out! Miguel On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov kek...@gmail.com wrote: I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know (now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in production for half of a year). Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so it would be great to wrap something like https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement. Regards, Nikita 2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani mzab...@gmail.com: Wow! This is such great news!! As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've developed Fos http://github.com/mzabani/Fos on a very permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my spare time is running lower these days. Hope it helps, Marcelo. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@xamarin.comwrote: Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
[Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext
Hello guys! Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext: http://github.com/aspnet/home This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!). So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us for years. So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX. But this is a great time to: - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix. - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono). - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on Unix than you can on Windows. While this is a tall order, my friend David Miller would expect nothing less from us. Hugs and love, Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
