Re: Minneapolis Issues (Was:[Mpls] Re:Strib poll)
Friends, I've been a list member almost from the beginning of this forum. I am disappointed to see it lately decline from a forum marked by thoughtful and substantive discussion into just another place for a few folks to rant and insult one another. It's getting to the point that I'm having a hard time telling the difference between the junk mail I find in my inbox every day and the rant that is too often becoming standard fare on this list. Maybe it's the late hour or maybe it's a moment of clarity, but I'm dropping off this list for a while. I have grown weary of unnecessarily inflamatory postings and personal attacks. I hope that the general level of civility and substance improves. Minneapolis'issues deserve better. Ann Berget Kingfield 10-10
[Mpls] R.T. v. Sharon on emergency preparedness
Title: R.T. v. Sharon on emergency preparedness I am writing this not to favor a particular candidate, but to push both of them to come up with better plans for emergency preparedness. I like both R.T. and Sharon and will be happy to see either elected, however I would encourage both of them to engage in constructive debate on this issue. Despite considerable provocation, I have yet to see R.T. address this issue. R.T., terrorism isn't going to go away anytime soon, and we still have the usual floods, tornados, and blizzards to deal with. So I'd like to see you and your campaign use their talents to come up with some creative responses to potential future crisis. Sharon and her administration have made some contributions to our high state of emergency preparedness. First off under Sharon's watch the cities fleet, shops, etc. has been updated. When a terrorist flies into the side of a skyscraper, you want fire trucks that start and a state of the art shop to make sure they do. Sharon and her administrations response on the 11th did the city proud. Within minutes the cities facilities were secured. Police officers were held over and polkice reserves and CSOs were called to duty until the threat had eased. Sharon's campaign was the first to suggest a suspension of campaigning on the 11th partly to insure that campaign volunteers would be available if they were called to duty. Even now, two weeks later, Minneapolis police keep 24 hour a day guard on our water supply. To facilitate the discussion and allow more folks to contribute their ideas. I'm going to throw out a few scenarios and invite suggestions to how the city should respond. Have at it! 1. A supertanker is blown up by terrorists. All other oil tankers quickly put into port and unload, and refuse to take to the seas again. 60% of our fuel is imported. 2. Terrorists are thwarted in an attempt to take control of a nuclear power plant just upriver from Minneapolis. The power company wants to keep the plant operating. 3. The heartland has seen 3 100 year or greater floods in the last 8 years. The 100 year flood plain clearly needs to be recalculated... After a winter of heavy snows their is a rapid melt and torrential rains. NOA says the flood will match but go no higher than 1965's record. But a concerned citizen like me sends the mayor an e-mail of an unpublicized Corp of Engineers study that predicts much worse. The Corp study takes into account the effects of man made structures in the flood plain and used the Corp's model of the river valley. Snow removal has already cut deeply into the cities budget reserves... what would you do? 4. What appears to be a small nuclear weapon has been detonated in the air above the upper peninsula of Michigan. The area of the blast is pretty remote, and their appears to be little loss of life. But almost every computer has gone dead, and many radios are not functioning. Strangely enough, the older equipment seems to have survived better, and the only reliable communications are between a few amateur radio operators with ancient tube type radios. What happened? What would you do? Let's see some creative solutions... Dyna Sluyter from Hawthorne, an alternative terrorist target if they miss Phillips (humor) -- Dyna Sluyter friend of Bill W. and Harry B. USPS TTO, 55401 tour 3 trailer jockey de N0EGF, qrv 70cm, 2m, 10-80m proud IBT and APWU member for over 20 years, solidarity forever! mk.1 Mini Cooper S, mk.2 Golf diezel, Ranger XL 4x4 longbed (da service truck) R100GS, R65LS+Motorvation Spyder sidecar Teledyne Titan, Santana, Trek 7300 Quickie GP, Fortress AeroEdge running C/PM, DOS, Linux, and Mac OS. Micro who? Amtrak 1007, highball!
Re: Minneapolis Issues (Was:[Mpls] Re:Strib poll)
Ditto richard carney st. paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friends, I've been a list member almost from the beginning of this forum. I am disappointed to see it lately decline from a forum marked by thoughtful and substantive discussion into just another place for a few folks to rant and insult one another. It's getting to the point that I'm having a hard time telling the difference between the junk mail I find in my inbox every day and the rant that is too often becoming standard fare on this list. Maybe it's the late hour or maybe it's a moment of clarity, but I'm dropping off this list for a while. I have grown weary of unnecessarily inflamatory postings and personal attacks. I hope that the general level of civility and substance improves. Minneapolis'issues deserve better. Ann Berget Kingfield 10-10
[Mpls] list manager thank you
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- i want to take a minute and publicly thank david brauer for all his work on this list. i think we can all agree that david has done the community a great service by managing this list. i appreciate him taking the time to moderate and handle the technical issues. i've been a reader and sometimes poster for about two years, and the list has really given me a lot of valuable facts and opinions. mark wilde windom park __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] list manager thank you
Most everyone on this list knows that I am a close personal friend of Mr. Brauer's, so my seconding of Mr. Wilde's "thank you" will not come as a great surprise. However, what list members don't know is that the nasty tone and non-Minneapolis focus this list has taken in recent weeks has weighed heavily on Mr. Brauer and has caused him to very seriously consider abandoning his work on the list altogether. I am revealing this without Mr. Brauer's blessing or foreknowledge, in the hopes that list members readopt the focus and civility that has made the list so successful in recruiting a wide range of opinions over the past couple of years. I have been guilty of twisting the knife in recent posts where I thought I had a particularly righteous argument--once in response to Mr. Wilde and his statements about Intermedia Arts, but also on threads about terrorism and comparisons of Mayors Belton and Guiliani. For what it's worth, I apologize to those on the receiving end of those posts and pledge to limit my inflammatory rhetoric as much as my abrasive nature allows. I encourage members to remind me offlist when I stray from that pledge. Put simply, the long-term future of the list is problematic so long as vitriol and non-Minneapolis subjects hold sway. I encourage those who value this list to keep that in mind when they post. Britt Robson Lyndale
[Mpls] Mayor and City response to Sept 11 attack
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Since several members of the list have posted questions about the Mayor's response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, I thought it would be useful to provide an overview of her activities to list members. This was all well-reported in the media and much of the information can be found on the City's web site at: http://www.ci.mpls.mn.us/news/emergency.asp On the morning of September 11, the Mayor was preparing for a full day of campaigning. I had taken a vacation day from work to campaign as well. Upon hearing news of the terrorist attack, the Mayor immediately suspended her campaign activities to focus all of her attention on her duties as Mayor. I was called to City Hall as well. The following activities unfolded: Within an hour of the attack, Mayor Sayles Belton was meeting with the City's Police Chief, Fire Chief, Deputy Fire Chief in charge of Emergency Operations, President of the City Council and City Coordinator to assess the situation, determine what action the City should take to ensure public safety, and how to communicate this information to the public. At 11:00 a.m., the Mayor and City leadership held a news conference to inform the public and the media of the City's public safety plans and to call on the community to remain calm. The Mayor also called for tolerance among all Minneapolis residents. The following decisions had been made, and the following measures were in place: * City government would remain open. * Polling places would remain open. * The City was on alert status, with security and preparedness measures in place. * Additional police officers and were stationed in government buildings and in the central business district. * Within neighborhoods, all officers were put on the streets and CCP-Safe personnel were called in for back up. * The Police Emergency Response unit was activated. * The Minneapolis Bomb squad was placed on alert. * The Minneapolis Police Department began assisting Fridley and Hennepin County at the Water Control Plant. * The Emergency Communications staff was beefed up. * The Police Chief had established liaisons with federal and state agencies. * The Emergency Operations Center was activated. * The City's Emergency plan was reviewed. * All fire stations were activated to full security with extra firefighters. * Firefighters were stationed in the Emergency Operations center. * Hospitals and other primary responders and support agencies were on preparedness alert status. * The Fire Chief asked mutual aid fire departments in the Twin Cities to be on alert. * At 4:30 p.m., the Mayor and City leadership updated the public and the media about public safety actions and to inform the public that there had been no direct threat to Minneapolis throughout the day. Additionally, Mayor Sayles Belton send a letter to faith leaders in Minneapolis asking for their help in providing guidance and support to citizens during this crisis. Mayor Sayles Belton also sent a call to youth workers and youth serving organizations throughout the City to work with young people to help them address their questions about this tragedy and to guide them in their response to it. Since September 11, there have been some reports to the police of telephone threats to Islamic businesses. The police have responded by keeping squad cars parked by the business and working directly with the business owners. The Mayor has continued her call for calm, unity and tolerance. On September 21, the Mayor met with leaders of the local Islamic community to offer her support and listen to concerns. It is also important to note that the City and County have had emergency preparedness plans in place for years and the elected leadership and professional staff have participated in preparedness exercises. The Mayor has also worked nationally on emergency preparedness issues. She was appointed to President Clinton's Advisory Committee for the Commission on Critical Infrastructure Protection. When the attack occurred on September 11, the City's swift response was possible because of it's long-established preparedness measures and experienced leadership to carry those measures out to the extend that was needed. This is not about campaign rhetoric. This is not about politics. This is about qualified public servants doing their job. Ann Freeman Communications Director Minneapolis Mayor Sharon Sayles Belton (612) 673-2156 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Court Appearance Re Charger
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Jeremy Meyer will make a first appearance in Hennepin County Court tomorrow for the disorderly conduct charge he was issued related to the shooting of his dog, Charger, August 13 by Minneapolis Police. His mom, Sandy will be there also. Hennepin County Govt Ct Rm. 1156 9:00 a.m. Amy Draeger Lowry Hill ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] local leadership in the age of terrorism
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- I want to add on to this post Several years ago, I listened to a group of older, financially well-to-do white men talk about how much safer the world had become since the Cold War and Nuclear Winter threats were over. I found it hard to accept, since I daily listened to tales of low-income young adults - african americans, latinos, caucasians and more - as they spoke of the fear they felt every night as they stepped past drug addicts on their way home. I am a Black/Puerto Rican/mixed blood young adult with a working class background who also feels no more comfortable now than when I did during the Cold War. And it has little to do with drug addicts on the street. As a matter of fact, drug addicts on the street add to my fear, but I don't fear them. They are a syptom of a system that has continued to provide safety for well-to-do white folks and has continually failed to meet the needs of the working class, the working poor, and people of color. I want to hear the real strategic plans that SSB and RT Rybak have for ending racial profiling. (I've heard another jibberjabber and seen no reduction in profiling). I want to know what sort of state initiatives the candidates will support/push for in an effort to curb an ever widening income gap/skills gap/and education gap between the poor and rich, people of color and white folks. I want to hear what kind war on drugs the candidates plan to wage, and if that war will continue a cycle of victimization of those who have already been victimized by our beloved political system and has made it that much to turn to be overcome by hopelessness and drug use. I also want to know what the candidates plan to do in terms of renewable/reusable energy sources. I want to know how the mayor/candidate are going to react to the article published today in the STRIB concerning the computer system and the injustices it is creating at the new improved jail in downtown. These are my issues/concerns. Sharon has in the past answered some of these questions. RT has been silent. I want to see/hear more than RT in pajamas at an inconsequencial protest, and I want to see/hear more from the mayor other than condolences for the tragedy in New York. As Atherton and others pointed out before, I want to hear about what the candidates plan to DO and enough of what they didn't do right or aren't doing right or supposedly did that no one can really agree upon. -Brandon Lacy Campos -Powderhorn Park 9-4 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Frustration with the list
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- A note to Ann and others contemplating leaving mpls.issues... I understand your frustration; perhaps some of my recent posts have added to your dilemma, if so I apologize. Times have been difficult in recent weeks and undoubtedly the elections have put people on edge. However, how can we expect the quality of list dialogue to improve if thoughtful and knowledgeable members continue to drop their membership? A lack of thoughtful, knowledgeable, participating members will only assure the demise of the mpls.issues forum. The list will be successful only if thoughtful and knowledgeable people continue to actively participate. I hope you will reconsider and stick around to add to the quality of discussion. Mike Hohmann 13th Ward ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Barney Frank Lecture
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Vermont Sen. Barney Frank to give a lecture at the Schochet Center at the UofMN campus this Friday September, 28. ---Forwarded Message--- PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY AS APPROPRIATE Congressman Barney Frank, The Politics of Fairness The Schochet Center for GLBT Studies Distinguished Lecture Series: the Allan Spear Lecture in Public Policy Friday, September 28th, 2001 7:00 p.m. Cowles Auditorium of the Hubert H. Humphrey Center (301 19th Avenue South) on the University of Minnesota West Bank campus. FREE amp; OPEN TO THE PUBLIC! For more information or accommodations, call 612/625-3499 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Steven J. Schochet Center for GLBT Studies is an interdisciplinary center focusing on academic and community-based knowledges and historic preservation of GLBT lives. About Congressman Frank: In 1980, Congressman Frank was elected to the United States House of Representatives where he continues to serve, out and proud, today. Congressman Frank has been called one of the intellectual and political leaders of the Democratic Party in the House. He has published numerous essays on politics and public affairs. Congressman Frank published a book in 1992 entitled 'Speaking Frankly', an essay on the role that the Democratic Party should play in the 1990s. ~~~ The University of Minnesota is an equal opportunity educator and employer. This material is available in alternative formats upon request. *** Linnea A. Stenson, Ph.D. Program Director Steven J. Schochet Center for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender Studies office 612/625-3499fax 612/624-9028 132 Klaeber Court University of Minnesota Minneapolis, MNnbsp; 55455 http://www.glbtstudies.umn.edu *** -End Forward- = Lee J Schneider - Stonewall DFL Eletronic Communications Newsletter Editor Webmaster WWW: WWW.StonewallDFL.org E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Strib Pole
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Jordan, if you state that a group is racist, have the integrity to stand behind it. A hypothesis is an assuption you are trying to prove or disprove. You're looking for a different word. Look for one that means, I want to attack a group's credibility without being asked to defend my opinion. If you want to posit that a group is racist, back yourself up. And when challenged, do something other than repeat yourself. Rich Chandler - Ward 9 --- Jordan Kushner 1) I suggest that many liberals and conservatives as reflected in the poll are basing their opinions more an race than on substance. 2) My hypothesis is that at least a substantial percentage of conservatives dislike the Mayor because she is African American rather than her policies. 3) My hypothesis remains that a substantial portion of people describing themselves as conservative dislike or despise the Mayor because of her race. While I posed this statement as a hypothesis, I cannot avoid a personal conclusions that there is a lot of racism behind much of the consevatives' hatred of the Mayor. Jordan Kushner 8-?, west powderhorn __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Afford Housing, NEW IDEAS
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- The primary season is over. The real race begins. Many people with all of the campaigns have asked me and other landlords what's the solution Craig. The issue of course is the lack of affordable housing. Public housing has given up on people with troubled crim, credit, or housing court history. The non-profits are being examined for the large amount of money they spend. The private sector landlord is being put over a very large barrel when it comes to renting to high risk ( Not my words, Julie Sabo's-Linda Berglin's)tenants. So most are excluding them. Under current circumstances, they are way to expensive to house. The city finances for the next few years look bleak. We have a recession approaching or upon us. Tax revenues go down when that happens. Large property owners petition to have their taxes lowered. The large office buildings get large cutbacks when that happens. So there will be little that the city can do directly. A list lurker has pointed out that it has been a long time since we have had down times. It's great to be a tax cutting governor or rebating governor. Or that it's great to be a hold the line Mayor and council. It is easy when the bread dough keeps rising. What happens to the big patty melt we call Mpls when the loaf starts shrinking? 1. Legislative cutbacks that make the past year or so like a tea party. Anyone remember the 1990-3. Budget years. Or the 1977-1983 years. 2. MN House still in Republican control 3. Washington DC preoccupied with concerns overseas With close to half the city budget coming from sources other then the Mpls taxpayer, we could be in for a rude shock or two. What can the city do? What can the next Mayor do? What can the next council do? I posit that the track record over the last 4 years has been spotty at best. Before I launch on my solution, I would like to hear from the list. What is the new solution? Most of all the plans tried so far have failed. Craig Miller Camden Landlord [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Barney Frank Lecture
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Say what? Andy The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, remain neutral --Dante From: W. Brandon Lacy Campos [EMAIL PROTECTED] James Jeffords is a Senator from Vermont, and while he will hold a special place in my heart for a long time, he's not the gayest man in the Senate, that's a toss up between Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond (I think they've been lovers since the early 80s). ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Strib Pole
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- What I find really fascinating about this list is that whenever someone brings up issues of race or racism, there is a harsh reaction from two or three people shouting that person down, sometimes calling for their expulsion from the list. And I must say that there is often an irrational tone in their voice, such as in the message below. What I see is an unwillingness to acknowledge (at least by this small sample) that racism in its many forms does exist all around us every day in this community and in probably all American communities. These harsh reactions probably tend to stifle much serious conversation about issues of race on this list -- and in general in this community. Personally, I think racism is typically very subtle and often unintentional, but it is a HUGE factor in political and economic institutions. I do not know either of the writers below, but I do find merit in what Mr. Kushner has to say and I hope he is not discouraged to pursue his thoughts on this list, or in any other forum. Tom Borrup Elliot Park Rich Chandler wrote: Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Jordan, if you state that a group is racist, have the integrity to stand behind it. A hypothesis is an assuption you are trying to prove or disprove. You're looking for a different word. Look for one that means, I want to attack a group's credibility without being asked to defend my opinion. If you want to posit that a group is racist, back yourself up. And when challenged, do something other than repeat yourself. Rich Chandler - Ward 9 --- Jordan Kushner 1) I suggest that many liberals and conservatives as reflected in the poll are basing their opinions more an race than on substance. 2) My hypothesis is that at least a substantial percentage of conservatives dislike the Mayor because she is African American rather than her policies. 3) My hypothesis remains that a substantial portion of people describing themselves as conservative dislike or despise the Mayor because of her race. While I posed this statement as a hypothesis, I cannot avoid a personal conclusions that there is a lot of racism behind much of the consevatives' hatred of the Mayor. Jordan Kushner 8-?, west powderhorn __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Likely voters?
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- I don't pretend to be a polling expert or an expert in statistical procedures, but I'll take a try at answering the question raised by Tim Bonham: Is the Star Tribune's screening of likely voters valid? For a more technical explanation of polling techniques, call Rob Daves, who runs the poll here at 673-7278. He can talk for hours about polling techniques, and he will if you let him. He also does peer review for Public Opinion Quarterly, the scholarly magazine for people who poll. Tim asks if the Star Tribune adequately screens to determine which voters are likely to vote, and whether self-reporting produces invalid results. Here's the procedure: First, the confirmed non-voters * people who say won't vote in the upcoming election -- are excluded. Then because people tend not to admit that they won't vote, a four-question screening is used to detect who is more and less likely to vote. For example, people might be asked if they are registered, if they voted last time, if they'll vote in the next election, and so on. They are then ranked on the basis of their answers. More weight is given to the poll responses of people judged more likely to vote, and less is given to the people less likely to vote. A critical component is that this weighting is based on historical research. It's not practical, given considerations of timeliness, to go down to City Hall in the midst of a poll to see if 400 people actually are registered or did vote last time. So this weighting is based on the past voting performance of people who scored similarly on the screening questions. In other words, after a group of people is screened and polled, whether they actually voted is researched and sorted by their screening rank The proportion of these people who actually voted determines the weighting given to people who will be screened and polled the next time. There are still flaws in this, such as in 1998 when a larger proportion of the gubernatorial general election vote was accounted for by less-likely voters or people who registered on election day, both groups tending to favor Ventura. But it's based on sound polling methodology. Steve Brandt Staff Writer Star Tribune (Mpls-St. Paul) 425 Portland Ave. Minneapolis, MN 55488 612-673-4438 (voice) 612-673-4359 (fax) e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] R.T. v. Sharon on emergency preparedness
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Sorry to disagree with my friend Dyna Sluyter, but I hope both candidates will NOT spend time talking about preparing for such emergencies. Unimaginable events of this level happen infrequently, and are of such a magnitude that almost any plans would be inadequate outdated. On the other hand, many of the issues we have discussed on this list (affordable housing, development zoning, police crime, city infrastructure budgeting to pay for it, etc.) are daily issues for the Mayor of Minneapolis; and I would rather see them spend their time discussing these real problems. Tim Bonham, Ward 12 I am writing this not to favor a particular candidate, but to push both of them to come up with better plans for emergency preparedness. I like both R.T. and Sharon and will be happy to see either elected, however I would encourage both of them to engage in constructive debate on this issue. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Strib Pole
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- - Original Message - From: Rich Chandler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [Mpls] Re: Strib Pole Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Jordan, if you state that a group is racist, have the integrity to stand behind it. A hypothesis is an assuption you are trying to prove or disprove. You're looking for a different word. Look for one that means, I want to attack a group's credibility without being asked to defend my opinion. If you want to posit that a group is racist, back yourself up. And when challenged, do something other than repeat yourself. Rich Chandler - Ward 9 Mr. Chandler, I don't think that questioning a person's integrity is a rational or appropriate response to simply raising questions (or hypotheses) about the degree to which race is a factor in the various groups' support or opposition to particular candidate. Although some are intent on discouraging any such discussion, some of us also consider such a reaction to indicate the need to avoid the underlying realities of racism in most aspects of our society. I was trying to be polite, perhaps conservative (believe it or not), and basically trying to promote discussion, in framing as a hypothesis the issue of whether many people are motivated by race in their decision to oppose or support the Mayor. Now that you have questioned my integrity in trying to ask questions and promote discussion about racism, I will add that it is my personal opinions that at least many, if not most, conservatives oppose the Mayor because of her race rather than her substantive policies. There are non-racist reason for opposing the Mayor. I have certainly made a personal effort to be as certain as possible to make sure that my own reasons for opposing the Mayor are not related to her race. I would not give such credit to many others. Jordan Kushner Ward 8 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Mayor and Terrorism preparation
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- From: Michael Hohmann What if a plane hit the IDS at about the 40th floor; or biological agents/infected persons were distributed throughout the metro area; chemical agents; nuclear materials distributed in the air or in the water distribution system? Heck, what if the nuclear power plant upstream on the Mississippi were targeted and there was a major release-- in the air and/or in the river? She's (the Mayor) had eight years, what is the plan? Just curious. In response to what the Mayor has done on the issue of domestic terrorism and allegations that she has done nothing over the last eight years. The most significant thing that the Mayor has done is been a national leader in issues of terrorism and local government. One thing she did was serve on the Advisory Panel for the President's Commission on Critical Infrastructure back in 1997. This includes threats on: * Information and Communications * Electrical Power Systems * Gas and Oil Transportation and Storage * Banking and Finance * Transportation * Water Supply Systems * Emergency Services * Government Services She was the only Mayor on the panel I believe. This group developed a workplan which was then handed to the Gilmore Commission. For the people who are going to attack my comments, I have attached the website to make your work easier. http://www.info-sec.com/pccip/web/ At the Mayor's direction our City Coordinator has been serving on the Gilmore Commission, a group which developed a long list of recommendations to improve the Country's defences against terrorism and improve the Country's response. It would appear that many of the President's current proposed changes are based on the work of this group. Again, to save time for the people who are going to attack me, here is the website for the Gilmore Commission. (Also, for anyone genuinely interested in government response to terrorism). The site was up earlier today but the Rand website is down as I send this (about 7:00 pm Tuesday). http://www.rand.org/nsrd/terrpanel/ The City has full disaster response plans and given the work with the federal government, is apparently ahead of many other communities in this respect. The last thing I would note is that the City tested these plans and did a wholescale mock disaster a year or to ago. I had some friends who went and died for the day as the City tested its disaster response systems. Carol Becker Longfellow ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Frustration with the list
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Why I would consider leaving this list: A couple of clips of comments about me from some recent posts. You can see why I would tire of this. I empathize with Ms. Becker's frustration and anger about the second sunning setback of her mayoral candidate one week ago (From someone who I've met once, amazing divination of my emotions. This person may have a future as a psychic!) I respect Ms. Becker enthusiastic support of the status quo leadership... (Hey, it is much more fun to shoot at people who are really working in the trenches, making the sausage that is public policy than try to understand why they do what they do.) This type of hysterical rhetoric coming from the Colvin Roy camp through Ms. Becker (It's OK, being hysterical. Women are like that. And apparently my own opinions are so weighty that I am now a camp? Must be because I've gained some weight...) And about a friend of mine... I sometimes get the impression that Colvin Roy doesn't even know what she is voting on half the time. What will she do without Joan Campbell? (Let's see how much more demeaning can we be? Can we add that she beats her dog too? Maybe we can just spread that rumor...) Those were responses to just the last post I made. Makes you wonder why I continue here. A question many of my friends have asked. I think there are three groups of people who do these kind of things: 1) The people who temporarily lose their temper but don't do this routinely. They later feel bad and wish they could take their posts back. These folks I accept as part of a group of human beings because I think everyone sometimes loses their temper. Even me. 2) The people who really don't understand what they are doing. These people do ultimately get banned because they really aren't interested in civil discourse. Mr. Brauer does a good job of policing this. 3) The groups of people who are doing this as an organized tactic to tear other people down. They seem to be on some holy war where any means is justified by their end. Past elections were contentious but were not like this in part because of folks in this group. This group I don't know what to do with. If I call them on it, I am lowering myself to their level. If I say nothing, my silence gives them consent. And encourages them do to more. I am in a Catch-22. In situations like this, I try to figure out what the kindest thing is to do. I expect that the kindest thing is to just sit and take it. But I get angry. And I get tired of it. Bone weary tired to the point of not wanting to participate. But then that also lets the people using this tactic win. And I don't want to give into that either. If anyone has any solutions to this, I would love to hear them. I agree with Ann Berget. I think Minneapolis deserves better. Carol Becker Longfellow PS I also have an article from Finance and Commerce from February this year eerily predicting that we would get to this point. I have hesitated to post it to this list because some people may find it inflammatory as it names one group who engage in this tactic. But I will send it out privately to anyone who wants to send me a private post. Please note in the subject of your e-mail that this is a private post so I can distinguish this from the torrent of other posts. PPS - the opinions in this post and every post under my name are the express thoughts, ideas, and opinions of Carol Becker, and do not represent anyone other than the aforementioned Carol Becker. I do not post on behalf of any campaign, organization, or group even though there are many people who continue to try to label me. Because, as I have noted in the past, once you can label someone, you can dismiss them. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Paul Ostrow for Council President ... NOT!
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- This is a copy of a letter that I had published in the latest edition of the Northeaster newspaper. I was shocked and appalled by the article in the StarTribune September 13 noting that Council Member Paul Ostrow is seeking the presidency of the city council. Considering what our city, state, and nation are going through I find this public announcement to be completely self centered, arrogant and opportunist. Two days after the worse attack in our nation's history, Mr. Ostrow is concentrating on partisan politics when everyone else is more concerned about loved ones and public security. Leadership decisions normally aren't made until after the elections and this public announcement really shows a serious lack of respect and concern for the current events. To Mr. Ostrow I say shame on you. Steve Sumner Ward 1 P.S. Based on the number of calls it has generated to my home, all in agreement with my assessment, I'm finding that I'm not alone in this viewpoint. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Strib pole
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- At 05:39 PM 09/25/2001 -0500, Tom Borrup wrote: Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- What I find really fascinating about this list is that whenever someone brings up issues of race or racism, there is a harsh reaction from two or three people shouting that person down, sometimes calling for their expulsion from the list. And I must say that there is often an irrational tone in their voice, such as in the message below. == Since I often respond to these posts, this is my feeling. I think racism is a serious charge -- and so I'd like to evidence of it when it is leveled at someone. I've seen racism, homophobia and sexism all leveled at people as a weapon -- and when that's not the real issue. What I see is an unwillingness to acknowledge (at least by this small sample) that racism in its many forms does exist all around us every day in this community and in probably all American communities. These harsh reactions probably tend to stifle much serious conversation about issues of race on this list -- and in general in this community. Personally, I think racism is typically very subtle and often unintentional, but it is a HUGE factor in political and economic institutions. = It's important to describe subtle racism then -- in a way that people can understand it. I think what happens too much is many people are intimidated about talking about the subject at all because they are afraid of getting called racist. This means that there is less open communication and less learning from each other. Saying that conservatives are likely to be racist and liberals are not -- which is how I read Kushner's comments -- just suggests an anti-conservative bigotry if you will. I do not know either of the writers below, but I do find merit in what Mr. Kushner has to say and I hope he is not discouraged to pursue his thoughts on this list, or in any other forum. I hope he isn't either. I respect alot of what he says on this forum. What I get tired of, is hearing conservatives labeled with the racist label with no evidence to show that. I'm sure Rich Chandler can respond more on this subject. But this is what I understood of his critique of Kushner's comments. Eva Eva Young Central - Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: List manager thank you
Mark Wilde writes: i want to take a minute and publicly thank david brauer for all his work on this list. i think we can all agree that david has done the community a great service by managing this list. i appreciate him taking the time to moderate and handle the technical issues Me too. It's too bad the local newspapers can't get us this kind of panoramic (yet grittily detailed) view of local politics in this town. And there is no question that David has made the list what it is by playing sheepdog to the often (lately, anyway) contentious members. Domo arigato, Brauer-sensei! Kevin Trainor 6-10, East Phillips I used to be involved, but now I'm just disgusted. .
Re: [Mpls] Basim and Brian and Brock -- Oh MY!
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- Eva Young wrote: Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- A few days ago, there was an article posted here about Herrongate/Sabrigate. Recall that Vickie Brock did not return calls regarding that. Vickie Brock worked in Herron's office during this time. She took many of the calls -- including the call from Sabri mentioning the need for Brian to help Ortega out with the liscencing people. Every city council member has an aide and an office assistant. Their jobs are to answer phone calls, among about 10 zillion other duties. On this list Eva has bent over backwards to try to connect Brock to Herron's debacle because her job included answering the phone in the 8th Ward office. The intention seems to be to imply that Brock was somehow connected to the problems Herron nd Sabri created for themselves. Eva Young hs brought this up regularly since July 15. It's now September 25 and time to move on to another topic. Vickie Brock's campaign manager, Matthea Little Smith told me she had forwarded this message to Vickie Brock and that Vickie would respond to this list. It's pretty clear to me that Brock has no intention of responding to this list about this. With the election only a few weeks away that should come as no surprise. Time to move on. Since Eva Young is backing Lilligren for the 8th ward seat, it seems pretty obvious that her 'poor Johnny one note' routine is in the service of Lilligren. If I were Lilligren, I'd be pretty upset about it, since it will drive voters into one of the other camps. WMarks, Central ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] M A Gate
Remember: our rules allow pointed disagreement, but require respectful discussion. -- MA Gate: The Eva writes: Last night, I got a rather unpleasant private email from MA (who posts regularly to this list and has a website that supposedly promotes Sayles Belton -- but really does the opposite). The email referred to Robert Lilligren as buggerboy and said that Brock would outlast him on a family values program and the race. The email continued that Sayles Belton was going to teach the boy (I assume this meant Robert -- what politics is all about.) The email is available for people to read for themselves on the CNIA Chat egroup -- under the subject line Ugly Rhetoric. I contacted Jo Mattson, Sayles Belton's campaign manager about this -- and have forwarded her the email. She told me the campaign knows nothing about MA, but she will email the supporters list in case this person is on the list as a pseudonym and tell the supporters that if they are sending this type of email to knock it off. A few hours later, Mattson called me back. The SSB campaign did identify MA as M A al-Kabir. He is the sales manager at Cranston Software at 3255 S Hennepin Ave. Phone #: 612-825-6251. I also contacted Brock's campaign manager, Matthea Smith about this. Matthea says that MA is not active with the Brock campaign. I've called Vickie Brock for comment both at work (her coworker told me Vickie was not in the office all day -- she was at meetings but would be calling in for messages), and on the campaign Brok Line at 332-brok. I have not gotten a return call. Poor Eva she is the backer of yet another losser. We have never encounter Vicke Brock in the course of our everyday life.. However,we do support her based on her record of service to the Community. The term boy pointed to the Candidate' Organisation. We have at no time represented ourselves as speaking for the Mayor. She has a general staff that isses statements on policy and other matters. Supporters do not issue Offical or Unofficial statements. We first had Herrongate,then Vickegate and M A Gate. The common factor in all these gates is Race. People lets face it,this campaign is dirty ! Eva has been a bad girl. m a al-Kabir Uptown ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
