[Mpls] DFL Senate district 60 convention timing
Please don't interpret this for or against any specific candidate, but I hope the DFL schedules its Senate District 60 endorsing convention BEFORE the city endorsing convention for the school board June 1. That way if Catherine Shreves, who announced her candidacy for the state Senate, loses the endorsement to Scott Dibble or another DFL hopeful, she can still be endorsed in a school board seat. (Shreves has said she will abide by the endorsement, as has Dibble.) I don't know if Catherine or Scott would favor or oppose this suggestion, though a Strib story tomorrow indicates she might look upon it favorably: http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/2117483.html Conceivably, this gives delegates an "out" to pick Dibble but keep Shreves on the school board, and thus might hurt her Senate bid. I prefer to look at it as a way to keep a good public servant in office, while also allowing her a chance to "move up." David Brauer King Field - Ward 10 _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] stadium money
I think you may have confused Ventura's plan with an earlier one, Bruce. There's no "borrowing" of deposits in his plan - at least not from the State. Although the Twins would be free to raise funds through naming rights, marketing promotions, or whatever as Dean pointed out. I don't have specific numbers I can throw out, but 8.5% is not at all unrealistic for a return if a balanced investment plan is used, even in hard times. One thing to note is that the investment fund that would be started with the $165 million would actually be overseen by the Twins, not the State. On one hand, you have to figure that gives the Twins some incentive to manage it carefully, since they'd have to make up any shortfall, but I'd feel better knowing some details on there being some third-party oversight to prevent excessive risk-taking. With regards to Terrell's post earlier, I'd like to point out that the bill he cites caps a local food/beverage tax at 5%, meaning it cannot exceed that. It doesn't mean it has to be that high. The cap is probably in there to make sure that local governments don't go completely nuts trying to outbid one another for the ballpark location. Also, while I'd really like to see strictly user fees (parking/ticket surcharges) in conjunction with the initial investment, I have to admit that I'd prefer a Minneapolis-wide tax (or St. Paul-wide, if they got the ballpark) over something that was downtown-only. Terrell and others have made great points that downtown residents have already been hit with more than their fair share of extra taxes for things like the Convention Center (and how many of them ever visit it?). Better to spread out the affected area to keep the percentage down. Maybe something county-wide is not out of the question, but I'm reasonably sure state-wide would be. Hopefully a mechanism for user fees can be developed that renders a food/beverage tax unnecessary or could have such a short life that it could be converted to a means for raising funds for housing or arts as Dean suggested (or a Planetarium, since that looks dead for bonding this year?) Mark Snyder Ward 1/Windom Park [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 3/21/02 4:27 PM, "Bruce Gaarder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If I remember what has been reported in the paper, the Twins want to "borrow" > the so-called non-refundable deposit of $165 million for the ball palace > from the state because they wouldn't have the hard cash. > > Doesn't seem to help protect the public. > > Then there is the supposed 8.5% return on the money that the state is > supposed to reap. Does anyone know the return that the state currently > gets on various investment funds, like pensions, etc.? As has been said, > expecting an annual return like that in hard times seems more than > optimistic. > > Bruce Gaarder > Highland Park Saint Paul > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Schiff
Sounds like Gary hit the nail on the head with regard to PM and the Green Party (at least judging by the Greens that post on this list with the exception of Annie, of course). He definately is going to the top of my "To be considered for higher office" list. Loki Anderson Marshall Terrace [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- "Jordan S. Kushner" > Some of Gary's quotes about his former political > allies, colleagues and > supporters are disappointingly vindictive and > childish, and probably > intended to create a smoke-screen in front of his > own about-face. I can > also supplement my own personal experience to refute > some of his > comments. > > The situation now is totally different than it was > in '97," Schiff claims. "Back then, if we had had > the Twins > > putting in $150 million, the mayor proposing a > tax-increment financing district [around the > proposed ballpark > > site] that would also be used for affordable > housing, and most of the other stadium funds coming > from > > user-based fees, corporate sponsorships, and other > private money, we would have declared victory and > > walked away." > > > > Another difference, Schiff says, is the "complete > turnover" in PM's staff since those days. "Now > you've got > > people who hate professional sports and hate > billionaires and would stand there cheering if the > Twins moved > > out of town tomorrow. It has poisoned the debate > to some degree." > - Gary has a particularly vitriolic quote regarding > the Green Party: > > > He adds that similar changes have > > occurred within the local > Green Party, which he describes as containing "a > bunch of angry white boys who > > are happy to be spoilers." = "In their styes with all their backing They don't care what goes on around In their eyes there's something lacking What they need's a damn good whacking" -George Harrison __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] stadium money
If I remember what has been reported in the paper, the Twins want to "borrow" the so-called non-refundable deposit of $165 million for the ball palace from the state because they wouldn't have the hard cash. Doesn't seem to help protect the public. Then there is the supposed 8.5% return on the money that the state is supposed to reap. Does anyone know the return that the state currently gets on various investment funds, like pensions, etc.? As has been said, expecting an annual return like that in hard times seems more than optimistic. Bruce Gaarder Highland Park Saint Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Dibble Announces run for Senate
Last night Scott Dibble announced that he is running for State Senate to replace Sen. Myron Orfiled. Myron has done a great job for SD60. My hat is off to him for his decision to spend more time with his family. I am thrilled that Scott has decided to run for the Minnesota Senate. Scott will not only bring a new voice to the Senate, he will also fill a gap that has been missing since the retirement of Retired Senator Allen Spear. I have seen first hand the dedication and hard work that Scott has done. It has been an privileged to have a dedicated, hard-working, progressive individual represent me in the House. Scott has been a solid advocate on the issues that impact Minneapolis. He has been actively engaged, and responsive to issues that are important to all of us. Scott is committed to the movement of social justice and fighting on behalf of progressive values. Scott has authored and fought for bill that are support education, human rights, health care, transportation, affordable housing, and many more. Doug Kress SD 60; 10-8, Kingfield Disclaimer: Because of Scott's dedication and work, I am part of the Volunteers for Dibble Core-Team. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] FW: Vigil
-Original Message- From: doroth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:20 PM To: Andrea Jenkins Subject: Vigil Vigil to honor the life of Abu Kassim Jeilani You are asked to attend a neighborhood vigil to remember Abu Kassim Jeilani. The vigil is being held to honor his life and to remind us all to be vigilant for the safety of others. Jeilani, a young Somali mentally ill man, died in the police shooting incident of March 10, 2002 at the corner of Chicago and Franklin. The rally will be held Friday, March 22, from 2 to 5 PM at the corner of Franklin and Chicago. The vigil will include: * Inter-faith prayers * Conversations between neighbors * Statements from community groups, women's groups, university students, politicians and governments agency representatives. Members of all communities are sincerely welcome to come and share their support. This vigil is sponsored by Inter-Community Groups (Somali and mainstream), neighborhood representatives, faith groups and labor unions. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Schiff and the stadium
I would like to second Gary's post regarding what he would or would not support in regards to a sports stadium. Gary's position has been entirely consistent! This is from someone who did not support Gary for DFL-endorsement!!! Rick Stafford DFL Hack Ward 9 Powderhorn Park Still SD 61, but maybe Ward 8
[Mpls] (no subject)
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[Mpls] Decorum update
Folks, we're getting a little owly again. I want to remind members, old and new, of a few things. 1. Our list charter asks for respectful discourse, and every post includes a footer that reminds you we are a "Civil City Civic discussion." That doesn't mean we can't disagree or even criticize, but that does mean you can't indulge your coarser epithets and scatological references in doing so. 2. While it's not a rule violation, I try to discourage people from putting other members' names in a subject line. We do have a specific rule against personal attacks, and putting names in a subject line is often a shortcut there. If you have a personal comment you need to make to/about a member, do it off-list. 3. The whole man-boy discussion is really transcends Minneapolis, and its info-to-rule-violation ratio is turning in the wrong direction. Let's all move on please. David Brauer List manager ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] SWIFT, the expert on gay topics
Mr. Swift in St. Paul considers himself sufficiently expert on gay topics to declare that it is time for Minnesota to install and use an electric chair for gays. However, he not sufficiently expert to know that everywhere gays use the terms "men" and "boys" to refer to older and younger ADULT gay men, respectively. Thus, a MAN aged 45 might refer to another MAN aged 30 as a "boy". I've seen men in their 40s wearing t-shirts with "boy" conspicuously printed on the front on Hennepin Avenue in the Gay Pride Parade. I have never encountered gays using the terms "men" and "boys" as synonyms for "pedophiles" and "teenagers who associate with pedophiles", respectively. It is doubtful that the Loring men and boys Yahoo Forum is a pedophilic one. Mr. Swift should document that the Loring men and boys Yahoo Forum is really pedophilic - otherwise he is simply putting his conjurings on this List. This looks to me like what often happens on this List, viz., a person posts who knows little about the subject about which he is preaching. In Zurich, the Swiss use the term "Munddurchfall" (trans. diarrhea of the mouth) for people who keep blabbing when their mouths should be in the shut position, or "going off half cocked" as we Americans might put it, and I am an American and Member #101321 of the Sons of the American Revolution. In the e-world, "Munddurchfall" evolves into "Tastendurchfall" (trans. diarrhea of the keyboard), and it is clear that this frequently occurs on this List. Robert Johnson Dr.-Ing. (Eidgenoessische Technische Hochschule, Zurich) Emeritierter Professor, UM Cedar Riverside West Bank Ward 2, Precinct 10 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Federal Reserve Plaza
What in the world are construction workers constructing on the plaza of the Federal Reserve Bank? Whatever it is, I'm afraid it's permanent. In September, the STrib ran an article about the gun-toting security guards and the fenced-off river access because of Sept. 11th concerns (http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/706673.html). There were also concrete barricades lined up along the plaza, and these were annoying too. But now they've punched holes right into the flagstones and seem to be sinking some siege-mentality metal cages into cement. Man, it is butt-ugly! Some of us were wondering about the plaza's open design in the first place, considering the Oklahoma City bombing. Well way to go, whoever designed the plaza, because it's a booby-trap now. So much for all the decorative brick. And what is this to protect us from? I work right by the Reserve and I'm more worried about the aggressive drivers who run the stop signs at 1st Avenue North and 1st Street North. Couldn't they have constructed parapets out of matching stone, instead of what's being put there now? It really is startling. Kristine Harley Sheridan ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Cost of hosting the stadium - now $175/year for each ofus
Terrell Brown wrote: > Does anyone really believe that the money spent going to sports events > is money that wouldn't be spent somewhere else if the sporting event > wasn't available? Most of this isn't new money that the wouldn't be > spent elsewhere, its money that would be spent at Valley Fair, a > theatre, or where ever. The above summarizes one reason why I am opposed to providing any public funding for a new Twins stadium. I want to know why some of our elected representatives are playing favorites with profit-making enterprises. Why do some believe that the profit-making entity that we call the Minnesota Twins is more worthy of tax payer support than the profit-making enterprise we call Valley Fair? Also, why do some believe that a profit-making enterprise like the Twins is more worthy of public support than is public education? I forget who said it, but I have to repeat it, "if our elected representatives can find the money to fund a new Twins stadium, then they have found the money to fund our public schools." Scott McGerik Hawthorne/Minneapolis http://www.mcgerik.com/scott/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Senate district 60
on 3/21/02 12:15 PM, Andy Driscoll at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Looks like a DFL battle between Scott Dibble and e-democracy founder, Steve > Clift. Here's what I gleaned from last night's SD 60 convention: Senate: Scott Dibble Catherine Shreves House 60A: Margaret Anderson Kelliher House 60B: Frank Hornstein Rebecca Thoman (unconfirmed) Mark Lindberg (unconfirmed) Steve has floated his name but I'm unclear if he's thinking of the house or the senate. Some other people have mentioned Lisa McDonald, who now lives in 60BI don't know if she's interested, or in which office she would be. David Brauer King Field - Ward 10 - District 60B _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Sign of spring
A crocus was blooming this morning on the south side of the South Side Farm Store on E. 38th St. Maybe this reverse winter (warm in January, cold in March) hasn't killed off all signs of life. Steve Brandt Downtown East for work Kingfield for play ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Stadium Roof
Does anyone know the current estimates for adding a retractable roof to a new Twins stadium? If the stadium is constructed "roof ready" what is the cost of adding it later on? Does anyone seriously believe that the public won't be asked to pay for the roof? If not, then we should add this cost to the taxes that will have to be imposed upon Minneapolis residents if the Jesse stadium scheme passes. Again, we need realistic estimates about the true costs! Gene Martinez Minnehaha, Ward 12 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Cub attracted by LRT
Paul Lambie wrote: > If we would quit worrying about preserving wetlands > and open space we would prevent more sprawl. Yes, and we could funnel all that storm water runoff from streets and parking lots into concrete lined ditches and pipes, like the Los Angeles River, instead of our lakes, streams, and rivers. In reality, new clean water rules dictate that we must retrofit urban areas (and require the same in developing ones) with storm water wetlands to treat runoff. Minneapolis, and soon smaller cities including suburbs, must meet permitting standards of the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES). For more information see the EPA website: http://cfpub.epa.gov/npdes/ Pam Blixt Nokomis East ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: PIM Tidbits re Mpls Legislative Re-Districting
Looks like a DFL battle between Scott Dibble and e-democracy founder, Steve Clift. Andy "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of the country." --- Thomas Jefferson,1816 > From: "deanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:28:32 GMT > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Mpls] Re: PIM Tidbits re Mpls Legislative Re-Districting > > I got an e-mail elert from Rep Dibble last night that announced he would be > running for Senate District 60. > > Dean E. Carlson > East Harriet, Ward 10 > > > Dooley, Bill writes: > >> From POLITICS IN MINNESOTA (Volume 20, Number 14) March 21, 2002 > > ...snip > >> " . . . In the open Senate District 60 seat (DFL Sen. Myron Orfield is >> retiring), incumbent House members Reps. SCOTT DIBBLE (DFL-Minneapolis) and >> MARGARET KELLIHER (DFL-Minneapolis) met last night to see who would try to >> move to the Senate . . . " >> >> Bill Dooley >> Ward 13 >> Kenny > ___ > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > http://e-democracy.org/mpls > ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] MPLS Pedophiles using Yahoogroups!
>> The fact that we have people defending these bastards, >> for whatever reason, sickens me..really. The fact that Swift assume that anyone is defending pedophiles, because we aren't totally convinced from the evidence he provided that this is a pedophile site is rather interesting. When illegal activity on yahoo's site is brought to their attention, they do have the responsibility to report it. However, a list that could be a social list -- and a lesbian list with that description would be a social list -- not a list for predators -- should not be targeted. Ever since I've gotten yahoo messenger, I've been getting comeon messages from men who don't even know me -- do I post the content of those messages to this list, to try to say this behavior represents the way all straight men behave. Should I be reporting them to the FBI -- because for all these idiots know, I could be under age? No, I just ignore and delete them. Also, Swift didn't respond to my point about abuse in the Boy Scouts of America and the churches. The fact that 10% of those arrested were from the clergy is a problem -- and it's also a real problem that churches seem to react to these things not by reporting the perpetrators to get them investigated criminally -- but rather just transfer the problem to a different parrish. Swift did mention that the Priest pedophiles were a big problem -- but he didn't talk about how the hiararchie in the church allowed this stuff to go on, and didn't want to hear about it. >Watch your tongue! The word "bastard" is a long-standing epithet used to >hurt children whose parents through no fault of the child were not married >at their birth. It is a form of psychological child abuse and a civil >discussion is no place for such filth. This term -- which I don't think is really appropriate for this list is also used in general just to refer to bad nasty people. >No one here has defended pedophilia that I'm aware of. Are you aware that >the age of consent in Minnesota is 16 unless the adult is in a position of >power over the younger person (MN State Statute 609.345). At age 16 we >still might call someone a "boy" (and they might consider themselves one >as well), but we generally regard them as being capable of making their >own determinations of who to sexually partner with. Without evidence to >the contrary, why should I assume this group is not meant for legal >activities, such as chatting or for people for whom it is legal to have >sex with each other to meet? Or perhaps for social purposes. Have Swift ever thought that gay kids might want to find other kids -- and adults to socialize with? And Gay kids aren't welcome in the Boy Scouts -- we all know that. >Because accusing the gay community of pedophilia, "recruiting", and a host >of other similar practices is a timeworn approach by antigay special >interests to prevent anyone from speaking out on behalf of the homosexual >population, I think it would behoove you to make it clear that you are not >doing the same. I just wonder if Swift would oppose any public funding of District 202 -- which is a drop in center for gay youth -- located in Minneapolis. I know he is vocally against the Out for Equity project in the St Paul Schools -- and I assume he would feel the same way about similar projects in the Minneapolis Schools. >In Minnesota *tonight* some 3,000 kids are without homes. The largest >group of them in Minneapolis. Some of them gay children kicked out of >their homes. Odds are high that many will be approached within 48 hours of >becoming homeless by someone seeking to exploit them sexually. They are >extremely vulnerable. And you want us to spend time complaining to Yahoo! >based on your unfounded accusations against one group they carry, while >the young people who are in real danger *right now* go ignored? That's a real problem -- so called "Christian" parents kicking gay teenagers out of their homes because they are gay. Regarding the group for the married and looking crowd -- doesn't that behavior by adults hurt children -- if these marriages include children? Or is this another example of where it's gay people's fault -- for somehow interfering with these straight marriages. I still don't quite get the connection. Where is a GLAIL group (Gays and Lesbians Against Immoral Lifestyles) when you need one? Oh, but we've got to "defend marriage" by preventing any local or state government from offering employees domestic partner benefits. Not to mention that a fair percentage of the crowd that goes to Loring Park trying to pick up male prostitutes are married men, living in the suburbs, and when talking to others in their professional life will bash those evil gay people. These creeps pay more for unprotected sex also. Eva Eva Young Minneapolis Eva Eva Young Central Neighborhood Minneapolis ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussio
Re: [Mpls] PIM Tidbits re Mpls Legislative Re-Districting
Phyllis Kahn also picks up Green Party leader Cam Gordon in north Seward. Could this mean a hot race between a couple of feisty candidates with a lot of energy and a lot to say? Cam would certainly pull a lot of support out of the West Bank/University of Minnesota precincts. Cara Letofsky Seward south of Franklin, old and new District 62A Dooley, Bill wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED]"> From POLITICS IN MINNESOTA (Volume 20, Number 14) March 21, 2002 " . . . Rep. PHYLLIS KAHN (DFL-Minneapolis) was happy to pick up the staunch DFL Cedar-Riverside neighborhood, even though to do so required that she lose her new constituents, DFL heavyweights Sam & Sylvia Kaplan. . . " " . . . Reps. MARY JO MCGUIRE (DFL-Falcon Heights) and ALICE HAUSMAN (DFL-St. Paul) were paired. They talked, on Tuesday, about the court's insensitivity to gender. Three of the six senior women in the House were paired. MCGUIRE and HAUSMAN against each other, and Rep. JEAN WAGENIUS (DFL-Mpls.) against Rep. WES SKOGLUND (DFL-Mpls.). The court's rationale published with the plan makes it clear, however, that they did not consider incumbency or gender. Once they got done with perfect population balance and respecting community boundaries, there wasn't really any room for incumbency considerations. So far the two have said they won't run against each other. In the SKOGLUND-WAGENIUS pairing the early betting is on WAGENIUS. . . " " . . . In the open Senate District 60 seat (DFL Sen. Myron Orfield is retiring), incumbent House members Reps. SCOTT DIBBLE (DFL-Minneapolis) and MARGARET KELLIHER (DFL-Minneapolis) met last night to see who would try to move to the Senate . . . " Bill Dooley Ward 13 Kenny
[Mpls] Re: stadium and a thank you
on 3/21/02 10:41 AM, deanc at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip > > I think that personal seat licenses, stadium naming rights, and a lucrative > concessions deal to the Twins can pay for a lot of this. A small ticket > surchage would also be quite palatable. A parking surcharge could also be a > nice revenue generator. Dean and others are climbing aboard Jesse's stadium plan, which seems to me to be the best idea to come around the pike since the beginning of this dreadful mess. But I remain skeptical that any revenue solution will work in the long term (like during the life of the bond repayment). I think we've seen that new stadiums can slap a band-aid on a faltering franchise for a few years, but unless the team wins consistently and contends for the playoffs on a regular basis, the stadium just won't help. Sure, it will be a novelty for 5-7 years, maybe a little longer (Baltimore, I think, is a good example of this), but without the wherewithal to develop (or buy) the talent they need to contend like Cleveland has done over the past several years, the Twins will be faltering again. Besides, who's to say the new intimate urban ballpark won't be out of fashion in 15 years (too few seats, not enough luxury suites, etc.)? And will all the revenue from personal seat licenses, stadium naming rights, etc. be enough in 2020 to keep the Twins competitive when shortstops hitting .250 are earning $15 million a year? The real issue here is the same as its always been: baseball's economics are completely dysfunctional, and building the Twins a stadium does nothing to fix them. The sad truth is that Donald Fehr and the players' union own this sport, and they have no incentive to rein in salaries. They have figured out the essence of the Major League Baseball industry: that it is a playground for ego-driven billionaires who will pay almost any price to secure the star player(s) who will draw attention to their teams--and by extension, to themselves. They just won't spend the money on stadiums, because they know that sooner or later the politicians will cave in and do it for them. Craig Cox Hiawatha P.S.: On a completely different note, I'm sending out a big thank you to List members Michael Atherton and Jonathan Palmer, who graciously appeared last night on The Minneapolis Observer TV show to discuss police behavior in the Abu Jeilani shooting. They were, as I had hoped, articulate, provocative, civil, and thoughtful gentlemen who had better things to do on a cold and blustery night than indulge a bunch of pretend TV producers, but they did it anyway. We are forever in your debt. The show airs Sunday at 8:30 p.m. on MTN cable channel 17. Check it out. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Spending money to make money...hosting the stadium excercise
Scott stole my post!! I was about to post about this very same subject. The Guv's stadium bonding scheme is gaining unstoppable momentum and will pass shortly. We could have a stadium finance bill in place by Opening Day. I agree with Scott and Walt that the sales tax on food and drink and hotels is a stupid idea. (to see a great analysis of why it is so wrongheaded find Councilmember Goodman's analysis of a couple of weeks ago, it was excellent). I think that personal seat licenses, stadium naming rights, and a lucrative concessions deal to the Twins can pay for a lot of this. A small ticket surchage would also be quite palatable. A parking surcharge could also be a nice revenue generator. A very small (e.g. one-tenth of one percent)county-wide sales tax could also generate a lot of dollars and spread the pain to the more affluent parts of the County -- it's probably a political non-starter, however. Maybe if the a percentage of the sales tax generated could also go to housing and the arts may make it easier to pass, I have no idea what kind of $$$ this would generate. I'll be interested to hear other ideas as well. Dean E. Carlson Ward 10, East Harriet ScottP writes: > Good morning list! > > Like many folks on the list, I am intrigued by the leveraged bonding Twins > stadium plan that's moving through the legislature this session. I don't > want to focus on the merits of the plan but rather let's assume that it > passes. The state issues bonds with the Twins non-refundable gift and a > ballpark is approved somewhere in the state. If it passes then there will > be a competition to host the ballpark site between various municipalities > (Mpls, St. Paul, Bloomington, BP etc...). Let's assume we want the ballpark > if it is built and we don't want a year round downtown food and beverage tax > (something I am really against). I'd love to hear some creative funding > ideas to attract the ballpark to our fair city. > > With the state doing the bonding I think there are some real opportunities > to put together something that is attractive to the Twins but more > importantly attractive to the residents of Minneapolis. Bear in mind we > have millions of square feet of commercial space being built and becoming > vacant and I think the Twins staying in Minneapolis would be a great sell to > businesses looking to relocate or expand. I have heard from others that we > have not done as well as we have needed to in growing living wage jobs in > the city and I think that attracting those employers to Minneapolis is very > important. (yes I know stadium jobs are not living wage jobs, we need to > think beyond the physical stadium itself) > > If you don't want the ballpark, fine, delete this post and move on to the > next. If you're against the stadium being built at all, same goes. I have > many reservations about the stadium and especially the viability of Major > League Baseball long term. The fact is that it's looking like this may very > well pass so I think it's important to look at how that may affect us here > in Minneapolis. I've got my own ideas but they're really in the germination > stage so I will participate in my own exercise in the near future but not > right now. > > Have a great day! > > Scott Persons > Lyndale Neighborhood (not subject to redistricting) > Ward 8 (subject to redistricting) > SD 61B (recently redistricted) > > ___ > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: > http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Cost of hosting the stadium - now $175/year for each of us
-Original Message- From: Scott Persons ... Let's assume we want the ballpark if it is built and we don't want a year round downtown food and beverage tax (something I am really against). I'd love to hear some creative funding ideas to attract the ballpark to our fair city. [TB] The proposal currently in the House is not for a downtown food and beverage tax, but for a CITY WIDE tax. 15.18 Subd. 3. [FOOD AND BEVERAGE TAXES.] Notwithstanding 15.19 Minnesota Statutes, section 477A.016, or any other limitation of 15.20 law or charter, and in addition to other taxes previously 15.21 authorized by law, the city may by ordinance impose liquor and 15.22 food taxes not to exceed five percent at a retail level on any 15.23 business within the confines of the local government unit. The 15.24 ordinance must provide for dedication of the taxes or fees, 15.25 after payment of collection and administrative expenses and 15.26 refunds, to payment of principal and interest on bonds issued 15.27 under section 10. see: http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/cgi-bin/getbill.pl?number=HF2214&session=ls82&version=latest&session_number=0&session_year=2001 You may also note that the proposed TAX HAS NOW RISEN to 5 percent. The current downtown Restaurant tax applies as follows: http://www.taxes.state.mn.us/salestax/factshts/salestax/164s0100.pdf Restaurant tax. A 3 percent restaurant tax applies to food and beverages sold by restaurants or "places of refreshment" in the downtown Minneapolis taxing area. These include restaurants, delicatessens, lunch counters, coffee shops, snack bars, bakeries, candy stores, deli counters, sidewalk carts, mobile units, hotels, motels, lodging houses, diners, bars, drive-ins, and clubs. This tax does not apply to food from vending machines, food and snacks sold by gas stations, cigar stands, grocery stores (except the deli section), or drugstores (except the lunch counter) or to beverages subject to the Downtown liquor tax. The tax applies to the same things that are subject to state and city sales tax. For example, if a bakery in downtown Minneapolis sells a bag of donuts and a cup of coffee, the state and city sales taxes apply to the coffee, but not the donuts. Therefore, the downtown restaurant tax also applies to the coffee, but not the donuts. If the bakery has a restaurant, all food served at the restaurant is subject to the downtown restaurant tax, as well as the state and city sales taxes [More from TB] This tax impacts the people that live and work anywhere in the City of Minneapolis. Spend your $10/week for your coffee at Vera's, Caribou or Starbucks, $40/week on any type of restaurant or fast food place food and $17/week for a few drinks and this will cost you over $175 each year. Probably should double that because the Vikings will want the same deal. We are not proposing a city resource here. We are proposing a regional, even statewide, resource and the costs should be borne that way. Does anyone really believe that the money spent going to sports events is money that wouldn't be spent somewhere else if the sporting event wasn't available? Most of this isn't new money that the wouldn't be spent elsewhere, its money that would be spent at Valley Fair, a theatre, or where ever. Terrell Brown Loring Park terrell at terrellbrown dot org ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: PIM Tidbits re Mpls Legislative Re-Districting
I got an e-mail elert from Rep Dibble last night that announced he would be running for Senate District 60. Dean E. Carlson East Harriet, Ward 10 Dooley, Bill writes: > From POLITICS IN MINNESOTA (Volume 20, Number 14) March 21, 2002 ...snip > " . . . In the open Senate District 60 seat (DFL Sen. Myron Orfield is retiring), >incumbent House members Reps. SCOTT DIBBLE (DFL-Minneapolis) and MARGARET KELLIHER >(DFL-Minneapolis) met last night to see who would try to move to the Senate . . . " > > Bill Dooley > Ward 13 > Kenny ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Minneapolis School Closures
I'd like to respond to Rita Miller's and Robin Halloum's emails and concerns about the possible closing of small schools. First, I'd like to apologize for what happened last week when a district administrator, without consulting the superintendent or the board, told parents that some schools would be closed and they could help decide which ones would be closed. That is not a foregone conclusion at all. I can understand why parents in the small community schools were upset after last week's meeting. These parents have been saying for the past two years that they want to work with teh district to find a solution that preserves small schools. I hope that families believe that the board is very interested in working with them to find solutions that make sense for students, families and our budget, and Carol Johnson has made that clear to administrators, and the process is going to be slowed down. Again, I'm really sorry about what happened. Catherine Shreves Minneapolis School Board Chair ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Spending money to make money...hosting the stadium excercise
Good morning list! Like many folks on the list, I am intrigued by the leveraged bonding Twins stadium plan that's moving through the legislature this session. I don't want to focus on the merits of the plan but rather let's assume that it passes. The state issues bonds with the Twins non-refundable gift and a ballpark is approved somewhere in the state. If it passes then there will be a competition to host the ballpark site between various municipalities (Mpls, St. Paul, Bloomington, BP etc...). Let's assume we want the ballpark if it is built and we don't want a year round downtown food and beverage tax (something I am really against). I'd love to hear some creative funding ideas to attract the ballpark to our fair city. With the state doing the bonding I think there are some real opportunities to put together something that is attractive to the Twins but more importantly attractive to the residents of Minneapolis. Bear in mind we have millions of square feet of commercial space being built and becoming vacant and I think the Twins staying in Minneapolis would be a great sell to businesses looking to relocate or expand. I have heard from others that we have not done as well as we have needed to in growing living wage jobs in the city and I think that attracting those employers to Minneapolis is very important. (yes I know stadium jobs are not living wage jobs, we need to think beyond the physical stadium itself) If you don't want the ballpark, fine, delete this post and move on to the next. If you're against the stadium being built at all, same goes. I have many reservations about the stadium and especially the viability of Major League Baseball long term. The fact is that it's looking like this may very well pass so I think it's important to look at how that may affect us here in Minneapolis. I've got my own ideas but they're really in the germination stage so I will participate in my own exercise in the near future but not right now. Have a great day! Scott Persons Lyndale Neighborhood (not subject to redistricting) Ward 8 (subject to redistricting) SD 61B (recently redistricted) ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] PIM Tidbits re Mpls Legislative Re-Districting
From POLITICS IN MINNESOTA (Volume 20, Number 14) March 21, 2002 " . . . Rep. PHYLLIS KAHN (DFL-Minneapolis) was happy to pick up the staunch DFL Cedar-Riverside neighborhood, even though to do so required that she lose her new constituents, DFL heavyweights Sam & Sylvia Kaplan. . . " " . . . Reps. MARY JO MCGUIRE (DFL-Falcon Heights) and ALICE HAUSMAN (DFL-St. Paul) were paired. They talked, on Tuesday, about the court's insensitivity to gender. Three of the six senior women in the House were paired. MCGUIRE and HAUSMAN against each other, and Rep. JEAN WAGENIUS (DFL-Mpls.) against Rep. WES SKOGLUND (DFL-Mpls.). The court's rationale published with the plan makes it clear, however, that they did not consider incumbency or gender. Once they got done with perfect population balance and respecting community boundaries, there wasn't really any room for incumbency considerations. So far the two have said they won't run against each other. In the SKOGLUND-WAGENIUS pairing the early betting is on WAGENIUS. . . " " . . . In the open Senate District 60 seat (DFL Sen. Myron Orfield is retiring), incumbent House members Reps. SCOTT DIBBLE (DFL-Minneapolis) and MARGARET KELLIHER (DFL-Minneapolis) met last night to see who would try to move to the Senate . . . " Bill Dooley Ward 13 Kenny
Re: [Mpls] MPLS Pedophiles using Yahoogroups!
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On Wednesday 20 March 2002 09:55 pm, Thomas Swift wrote:
> They only want to chat with local kids, our kids.
> Why do think that is Eva? How about you Michael Libby?
What about me? You didn't respond to a single point I raised. It's
insulting that you include me now without engaging in one meaningful
exchange with me heretofore.
You seem to be using Yahoo! groups as an excuse to further an anti-gay
agenda without any evidence of wrong-doing. As for me, I don't participate
in witch hunts.
Will your next post about Yahoo! groups focus on the Lesbian Avengers
group that was a little further down the list of Mpls/St. Paul groups,
saying that Yahoo! groups is encouraging terrorism?
If you don't have any evidence of actual illegal behavior, your opinion of
the group is just that, your opinion. Minus the word "gay" and the
description is similar to that of the Boy Scouts (a place for men and boys
to get together for more than just chatting). I could insinuate all day
long that, in spite of a few high profile anti-gay moments, the BSA are
just a cover for their real purpose of getting men and boys together for
sex, but that wouldn't make it true.
> The fact that we have people defending these bastards,
> for whatever reason, sickens me..really.
Watch your tongue! The word "bastard" is a long-standing epithet used to
hurt children whose parents through no fault of the child were not married
at their birth. It is a form of psychological child abuse and a civil
discussion is no place for such filth.
No one here has defended pedophilia that I'm aware of. Are you aware that
the age of consent in Minnesota is 16 unless the adult is in a position of
power over the younger person (MN State Statute 609.345). At age 16 we
still might call someone a "boy" (and they might consider themselves one
as well), but we generally regard them as being capable of making their
own determinations of who to sexually partner with. Without evidence to
the contrary, why should I assume this group is not meant for legal
activities, such as chatting or for people for whom it is legal to have
sex with each other to meet?
Because accusing the gay community of pedophilia, "recruiting", and a host
of other similar practices is a timeworn approach by antigay special
interests to prevent anyone from speaking out on behalf of the homosexual
population, I think it would behoove you to make it clear that you are not
doing the same.
In Minnesota *tonight* some 3,000 kids are without homes. The largest
group of them in Minneapolis. Some of them gay children kicked out of
their homes. Odds are high that many will be approached within 48 hours of
becoming homeless by someone seeking to exploit them sexually. They are
extremely vulnerable. And you want us to spend time complaining to Yahoo!
based on your unfounded accusations against one group they carry, while
the young people who are in real danger *right now* go ignored?
I think I feel a bit sick myself.
- -Michael Libby, Cleveland/North Mpls
__Michael_C_Libby__{_x_(at)_ichimunki_(dot)_com_}__
| unsolicited hotmail/yahoo email is deleted due to spam |
| my website: http://www.ichimunki.com/ |
| public key at http://www.ichimunki.com/public.key |
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___
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Re: [Mpls] MPLS Pedophiles using Yahoogroups!
Thomas Swift wrote: > I DONT CARE WHO IT IS..ANYONE WHO ABUSES KIDS SHOULD > BE REMOVED FROM THE PLANET. Does this apply to the eighteen year old who kisses and fondles their seventeen year girlfriend? Michael Atherton Prospect Park ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Minneapolis School Closures
The MPS Citizens Budget Advisory Committee has been having a lively, respectful and important email conversation regarding the issue of possibly closing three community schools in the East area. With Eli's permission, I'd like to share his thoughtful perspective here on the Minneapolis Issues forum, and then my response from that discussion. Here goes... In a message dated 3/19/2002 6:50:40 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Getting to the topic of small schools, I think people need to look at the history of the district. Many years ago, schools were closed due to financial issues. At that time 18 schools closed. Some were reopened later due to enrollment issues. At that time the same hue and cry was heard about closing my schools, small schools and the creation of larger schools, detrimental to the community. Same issue as we are hearing today. There were many issues being faced at that time, cost of renovating the building, enrollment decline, and financial problems. The issues are the same today. It is not only the population at the building, but also how can we make it safe for our kids, does it meet fire code, how much does it cost to renovate, what is the trend for the school population in that area, etc. So many questions that need to be addressed before the closing of schools. This questions need to looked at and answered before decisions are made and the community needs to have these questions answered. The community needs to accept those decisions, but not before having their questions answered; and they need to look at comparing their school with all the other schools that fall into the same category. Some of the schools that merged or became a bigger school at the time of closure needs to be examined to see how they did and how they are doing. Some of them improved to become the better schools of the district and some not. I think history could help make intelligent decisions that will benefit our community and the education of our children. Bigger schools does not mean less welcome or less comfortable with the environment. We all need to overcome biases and make people welcome regardless of who they are or the size of the school. This is a parental problem also and not just a school issue. As far as magnet schools, parents of magnet school kids will bring their kids to school regardless of where it is located. That was the whole point of integration of the schools. Now it is harder because the majority is not same majority it was at that time. I would argue that people who want “program style”, would do more than those that value only the building because the program can help their kids learn as compared to brick walls. Eli To Eli, I agree that it is important to look at history and learn from it. Unfortunately, the short time frame of the task force (one month) does not allow enough time to thoroughly examine these issues and make sound decisions that the community will support. We don't want the closing of schools to be a knee-jerk response to the budget crisis. You made good points Eli, and I was with you until the last paragraph. I'm not sure what you meant by people who "value only the buildings". If you are talking about the advocates for community schools, I would say that we value education AND the relationships that our children have built with the teachers, staff and the community. Children in community schools know that they are valued as important members of a community, not just their family. I know that you can build community at magnet schools as well, but as a parent who has had a child in a school far away, I also know that it is much more difficult to develop and sustain those relationships. I would also like to add that although this situation sounds similar to what happened years ago (would that be in the 80's?), it is a much more delicate situation now, because there are many alternatives that exist that didn't in the 80's. With the competition of charter schools, open enrollment with other districts, and growing popularity of home schooling, the district risks losing many more kids. Years ago, the only alternative was private school or to move. It is more important than ever to work WITH the community, not AGAINST. Look at what has happened with the three schools the district announced closing this fall - Chiron, Edison PPL and Mill City. Chiron and Edison are becoming charter schools, so instead of saving money, the district will lose more revenue. We don't want to see a domino effect where the district closes schools, they pop up as charter schools, and the district has to close more schools because of the additional lost revenue. Rita Miller Hiawatha Neighborhood --- Begin Message --- Ken This discussion is really getting fascinating. The input is getting diverse and extremely important. It shows how much input can be achieved via email. Maybe we should create a chat room, invite the board, p
[Mpls] Libraries and alleys, Oh My!
Carol seems to make a good point when she juxtaposes our expectations of libraries needs having to be met by fundraising versus our expectations of alleys being funded from taxes. Obviously she hasn't heard of my "Walk for Alleys" fund raising campaign. The point that is overlooked however is a discussion of what base level of funding is appropriate for government services we expect. Our alleys for example are easily measurable as to their quantity. They are an asset of our city worth a definable amount of money. There is for any asset such as this an acceptable life cycle so that we can predict how much money we should be investing each and every year to maintain, and replace them when needed. This applies to a great degree for all of our infrastructure. Obviously things can change during each items life cycle such as improved maintenance products, more or less deterioration based on such items as changing usage levels, or cheaper replacement products. Budgets can easily be adjusted to compensate for these changes however so that a properly run capital budget can maintain our infrastructure at an appropriate and agreed upon level. There should be no need for private fundraising. If properly run there should also be no need for infrastructure gaps such as we are dealing with in Public Works, parks, libraries and yes, even alley replacement. Libraries are a different sort of animal. In comparison, alleys are extremely quantifiable. I have a house built on a street system that incorporates an alley. I look out back and know where the alley belongs and what the surface should look like. If you looked with me you would have the same expectations. When the potholes get too big I can scream at City Hall and they can look at it and, although they might not fix it, they will have a hard time disagreeing with my conclusion that the alley needs work. How do we quantify the libraries? Do you expect the same level of service I do? Do you want a Planetarium at your library, or maybe an Aquarium? How close should we all live to our nearest Library? How many books should they have? What hours of service should there be? What number of computers should be available for use? Are there are other options that might serve the same wants and needs, such as County libraries, school libraries, internet services, book stores? Libraries might be a basic service that we have grown to expect of government, but the level we want, and are willing to pay for, can be more difficult to assess. It is up to our citizens as to whether they want to pay more taxes, or be involved in fundraising to offer additional more expansive services than what might be considered the norm. So how does the Minneapolis Public Library fit into the norm? I collected some data from two rating services for public libraries before last falls election which were fairly consistent in how they rated Minneapolis. They showed that in a category based on 82 libraries around the country that serve populations closest in size to Minneapolis we have the 3rd highest expenditure per capita at $50.60, versus $18.33 at the 50th percentile. Almost three times the norm. We also have the third highest staff per capita at .9, versus .4 at the 50th percentile. Over double the norm. Our total cost per circulation is $7.40 versus $3.70 at the 50th percentile. Double the norm. One can disagree with how ratings such as this are compiled but it is hard to argue dollars spent per capita. It is easily measurable. In that masochistic sort of way we look at things from Minneapolis I almost have to agree that I am happy to see we are spending significantly more than the norm. But there has to be a limit. Carol's logic seems to imply that since alleys are funded by taxes, we should therefore just keep sending additional tax money to fund the libraries needs in order to properly show the "priorities we put on people." To me this is an inappropriate and unfair comparison. I would submit that we should have a plan in place to adequately fund the repair and maintenance of all of our alleys, indeed all of our infrastructure, to an acceptable and fiscally responsible level of maintenance. End of discussion. Determine the proper number and fund it. I understand by the way that the funding for alley repaving for 2002 is in triple figures, $0.00. As for libraries, the citizens have voted to give the library $140,000,000 for improvements. I have stated my case in the past that I believe this referendum was improperly presented to the people, perhaps to the point of fraudulently. The library staff, Board and Mayor all were aware that the money requested would build libraries that the city did not have the money to adequately run. If the library supporters still want a Planetarium, and the state is unable to fund their wish at this time, then unless they raise funds elsewhere they need to accept there will be no Planetarium for now. The citizens have proven their overall support f
