[Mpls] More Park Board facts from an unnamed source
Speaking of Park Board fact sheets, Park Board Commissioner Ed Solomon was distributing another fact sheet at a recent volunteer recognition event down at Minnehaha Park. The title of the piece is Mayor and City Council Proposed Park Board Budget Cuts. The tone and content were intended to alarm citizens, listing all of the park improvements that wont be done in the year 2003 and subsequent years given the current budget. Heres the opening paragraph: Mayor Rybak and the City Council adopted a policy to increase their portion of property taxes 19% while decreasing funding to parks and libraries. Park tax funding will be cut by 6% next year-resulting in 4.58 million dollars less in park improvement or recreation, maintenance, and environmental programs. The tax cut is devastating and will mean improvements and rehabilitation (such as roofs) at the following parks will not be done. It then goes on to list the parks that Wont Be Done in 2003! and makes a plea that For $14 per year, They Can Be Done! It finishes with some other hyperbolic fairness statements and urges the reader to call the Mayor and Council to restore funding and to attend a Council hearing on September 3. On its face, the flyer seems to make the case for not buying the river property, although that clearly was not the author's intent. If the board cant take care of the basic maintenance of park buildings (such as roofs!), it has no business buying more property to rehab, period. In addition to an overall poor use of language and its chicken little tone, this lobbying pitch also has no disclaimer anywhere on it about who produced it and who paid for it. Given that Commissioner Soloman was helping distribute it, I assume it has at least Park Board sanction if not taxpayer money behind it. Im aware that volunteer recognition is an important aspect of maintaining high quality recreational programs, and that the Park Board spends tax dollars and uses staff time to organize and promote these events. Commissioners cross another ethical boundry when they combine these taxpayer financed events with the stealth lobbying efforts. It is further evidence that this park board majority cannot be trusted. Niel Ritchie East Harriet-Farmstead Eagerly awaiting the next referendum or election, whichever comes first. P.S. Im happy to share this with anyone via fax. __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] poverty and Minneapolis
Brandon - I'm not sure what you consider pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps, but I suspect you are completely wrong no matter how you define it. I read a study sometime in the last year about the movement of people between economic groups in this country. I'm sorry I can't remember where I read the study. The study divided everyone into 5 different economic quints, those in the 0 to 20% income group, 20% to 40% group, etc. Almost no one stayed in the same quint their entire life, and this included people in the top and bottom quints. And the majority of people moved at least two quints during their life, either up or down. This of course isn't related to Minneapolis issues. But it is necessary background in understanding that people are not stuck in any economic status in Minneapolis. If they have been in the bottom quint their whole lives, it is likely because they are either lazy or unlucky, or both. Most people can and do change their economic status during their lives. Someone posted the awakening he had at a camp where one of the young campers said that he and his neighbors weren't likely to make it past twenty-five. That was bravado and perhaps naivete on the part of the camper. Even in the worst part of Chicago, the vast majority of residents survive past twenty-five. A lot of them might go to jail, but I bet there's a pretty low chance of the store manager ending up there. In the same manner, personal responsibility of a young adult in the poorest sections of Minneapolis makes a huge difference in their future life. I have no doubt that it is hard for a young Black person to get a job in Minneapolis, but I also believe that responsible behavior will usually get them there. Mark Anderson Bancroft - Original Message - From: W. Brandon Lacy Campos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: James E Jacobsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 9:26 AM Subject: [Mpls] poverty and Minneapolis James, I am not sure from where you get your information, but this country has NOT done more for than poor than any country ever. Germany, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, and numerous other European nations have far fewer people living in poverty per capita than the United States. Further, the pull yourself up by the bootstraps arguement is ridiculous and a myth. There have been relatively few people who have ever pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. Before we had institutionalized welfare programs there were private self-help organizations that abounded across this nation in urban areas. Unions also played a key role in provided relief to the poor and unemployed. The issue here is unequal and gross misdistrubition of wealth in our society. I am interested in exactly what sort of relief efforts could have been provided with the 30+ million dollars in tax subsidies that the City Council provided to the downtown Target Store. I know that that Target store has not and will never create enough jobs to justify the level of subsidies it has recieved. This city, and the wider nation, provides millions and billions of dollars in corporate welfare while ignoring the 45 million people living in abject poverty in this nation. -Brandon Lacy Campos -Powderhorn Park -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James E Jacobsen Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Fw: poverty Though some African Americans might well have the problem of not being good 'employees', It wasn't African Americans I had observed, they were mainly white. And stop giving me the rationalizations. Any restranteur will tell you the average time of employment for a dish washer is about 3 weeks, the ones who are still there after three weeks get promotion and raise in pay, and the more dependable they are the more they go up. In 1965 (thats 37 years ago) the LBJ admin. got war on poverty legislation passed and this country since has done more for the poor than any country ever and where are we now, reference poverty and associated problems, --all the numbers are bigger--, and with continued shootings, crime, drugs, etc.. Figure it out. James Jacobsen // Whittier ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
RE: [Mpls] Rules change
Mark and members -- I appreciate your sincere concern for the forum. However, I want to re-emphasize: please don't comment on the rule changes, or the behavior of other members here. This is a place to debate ideas, not intra-list conduct. The rules have some drawbacks - they do restrict debate. However, in organizing the forum 4 years ago, the organizers made a choice that these restrictions were minor compared to the larger goal of keeping the focus on issues and not the personal flame wars that engulf other forums. There are many other places, both in Minneapolis and on the net, for unrestrained rhetoric. This cannot possibly be all things to all people, but we feel our record over the last four-plus years demonstrates the worth of the approach. Please, let's move on. David Brauer List manager -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Anderson Turpin Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 3:32 PM To: List Manager; mpls@mnforum Subject: Re: [Mpls] Rules change David - I appreciate that you are always trying to refine the rules here to make the forum better. And I agree with a previous poster that you've never taken advantage of your status as List Manager to change the tenor of the discussion towards your own political viewpoint. And I really appreciate the low wages you are paid for this. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Park Board Digs
Fellow list members I confess to being a bit shy about this topic. I will attempt to ask a couple of questions, but am aware that I may be looking at this too simplistically. Here are (I think) fairly simple questions related to the Park Board digs: 1. It seems to me preferable that the Park Board own its own offices and facilities rather than rent. Does that necessarily make sense? Does it make more sense for the Park board to pay out rent ad infinitum? 2. Does it make more sense to us as taxpayers to pay on a mortgage for Park Board offices, or to pay rent? (I tend to think of rent as second best option for such offices, but please educate me if you think otherwise.) 3. What other issues enter in to the decision rent or Buy for the Park Board -- other than the narrow rent or buy question? --Thanks -- Gary Hoover King Field ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] syl jones
Many of us know Mr. Jones told the truth. The problem is not in color though it is in culture. Minneapolis does not love the exuberent behavior of black culture or feel good or safe when meeting it. I believe that the liberal powers that be want to sweep this sort of thought under the rug. I believe it is time to tell the truth and embrace that which does not fit our notions of life. Dain Lyngstad, phillips/edina __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] RE: Syl Jones, etc.
I only have an observation to offer, not a brickbat or a solution. Although I disagree with Syl Jones at times, I find most of his writing rich and moving. And I am a little (middle aged) white girl from the Deep South. Maybe that's why. Anyhow, it seems to me that the more authentic issue ignored here on center stage is the tragic toll mental illness takes on people, sometimes entire communities. No one seems offended by Jones or the Strib (in earlier pieces) identifying Ms. Donald as probably mentally ill. She probably was, by all accounts, even her family's. And untreated, it sounds like. In this community - as in most across the country - very little can be done to compell a (suspected) mentally ill adult to seek and submit to medical assessment and treatment if he/she doesn't want to. Tragically, many serious mental illnesses impair not only one's judgment about the outside world, but also the ability to correctly assess one's own condition and actions. Sometimes it turns dangerous, even deadly, especially when weapons are at hand. God only knows all the details of what happened that night at Horn Towers, but I think the real issue is what happens when mental illness turns lethal - regardless of the color or station in life of anyone involved. Ann Berget Kingfield (Past Board Member of NAMI - National Alliance for the Mentally Ill)
RE: [Mpls] Park Board Digs
In response to Gary Hoover writing: 3. What other issues enter in to the decision rent or Buy for the Park Board -- other than the narrow rent or buy question? David Strand wrote: Therefore, the Park Board building purchase likely improves the collective financial footing of the city in the eyes of bond raters and others and should not be beaten down simply for being an additional debt burden. As one who wrote against the Park Board's override of R.T.'s veto, this misses the point as I see it. If the best financial deal is for the Park Board to own their own headquarters, then great. But first, let's look at all of the options from a city-wide perspective. Perhaps, there is enough space, given current buildings already owned by the city, for the Park Board to have room for their HQ without the need for buying a building *or* leasing any external space. This would save the amount already being spent by the Park Board for their current digs, without the expense of another purchase. Maybe, given all the needs of all departments and other external renting already being done, a building could be purchased that would satisfy all of the needs and result in an overall savings compared with current plans, including the Park Board's planned purchase. The only way to know what the best deal is would be to do the work of planning the needs for all departments. But the Park Board doesn't want to participate. They want to do their own thing, limiting the ability of the city to assess what the optimal space planning solution would be. That's *my* understanding of R.T.'s point. Walt Cygan Keewaydin ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Park Board Digs
I agree with David Strand that it makes sense for the Park Board to own rather than continue to pay rent forever on headquarters space. And I also agree that this is good debt and current economic conditions make it a good time to take on a mortgage. But my question on this would be related to the process; we seem to have done this backwards, starting with a piece of property and going from there. I would have expected this have been done by the Park Board first making the decision that they wanted to consider buying rather than renting, then sending out a request for bids from owners of suitable properties, considering those bids, and choosing the best one to purchase. (In fact, I thought state law required that such purchases be made thru an open bid process. After all, this is just office space, and could be located anywhere in the city. It's not like buying park land, where only a specific property will do.) Can someone explain why the Park Board did not use an open bid process? There might be even better bargains available in today's real estate market. Also what about using current property? Specifically the old Park Superintendents' house, which they are currently renting out for office space. Why couldn't they use that space for their own offices? Tim Bonham, Ward 12, Standish-Ericsson P.S. Can anyone tell me the actual street address of the property they are considering? Message: 12 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 16:56:47 -0700 (PDT) From: David Strand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Mpls] Park Board Digs To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Though some have argued that now is not the time for this purchase the price of money currently(historically low interest rates) would indicate that there could not be a better time to switch from renting and take on a mortgage if you are able. . . . Therefore, the Park Board building purchase likely improves the collective financial footing of the city in the eyes of bond raters and others and should not be beaten down simply for being an additional debt burden. Remember, there's good debt and bad debt. Not all debt is created equal. Just a few thoughts, David Strand Loring Park ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
