Re: [Mpls] Re: Mpls School walk-outs
In a message dated 3/21/2003 12:08:35 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Middle school students at Seward also walked out to go to the rally at the U. They too are facing detention as a consequence. Seeing all these kids taking a stand makes me think there may be hope for the world. I can't imagine why anyone would deny our children the rights we hold dear for ourselves. A contact in the St. Louis Park Greens tells me that the kids there face suspension. Linda Mann Kingfield TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] School Walk outs
Two questions for those who argue student walkouts in Minneapolis are a waste of taxpayer dollars: 1. Will you be raising similar objections in Eden Prairie, where 40 students at Central Middle School staged a walkout on Wednesday? http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3768356.html 2. Would you be complaining if those students had walked out to join the Taxpayers League on Wednesday when they held their annual protest at the State Capitol or would that have been considered cool? In other words, are you really riled up because some kids are missing class or because of what the kids are protesting about? Lastly, Craig mentioned a recent series in the Doonesbury comic strip about kids from a high school in Oregon being passed over when they applied for college. What he left out was the part of the storyline where that school system had closed five weeks earlier than usual because of budget cuts forced by tax reductions for the rich, so they were presumed to have received inferior educations. Maybe that's the lesson we should take away from Garry Trudeau. Mark Snyder Windom Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] School Walk outs
I have to admit, I'm very conflicted on this issue.
Maybe because I'm looking from the myopic viewpoint
that my son is in kindergarten and I don't see the
relevance yet.
I agree that this is an issue that children should be
concerned about for many reasons, one of which is
they're the ones who will be paying for Bush's war.
I understand their concern about children being
bombed, that the same thing could happen to them.
Would a better strategy, then, be for the kids to
amass food, medicine, toys, and other aid for the
Iraqi children? {Maybe this is already happening.}
I agree there will be kids who take part in protests
because it's cool and it's a way to get publicity.
Much like the jive-talkin' interviewee who always
seems to get interviewed on the 10 pm news and casts a
bad light on all neighborhood residents,
an interview with one clueless student casts a bad
light on the ones who are committed and informed.
There was a walkout recently at our local school over
the suspension of a favorite teacher. There, I see the
direct correlation between cause and walkout. Here, I
don't. But the more I read the thoughtful postings on
this list, the less conflicted I become. I appreciate
the dialogue and the ideals that fuel it.
Susan Maricle
Bruno, MN
formerly of Folwell
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Re: [Mpls] School Walk outs against the war
Well Paul. Congratulations! This is my first post in over three years of being a passive observer to the Minneapolis Issues bulletin board. You just hit a little too close to home and I thought I would comment on your comments. Just so you know, Paul, I am one of those obnoxious parents who has not one but two children at Field School. My eldest told me the night before of the planned demonstration, which was being planned solely by one of her close friends at school. I told my daughter that I was not going to persuade her either way about whether she should protest or not. But I did tell her that she would have to bear the consequences of her actions, whether a detention or worse. Understand, Paul, that most of the kids organizing this protest were in the top of the 8th grade class in one of the District's top schools. They are very capable of organizing a protest without their parents making the signs for them. To my knowledge, no parent assisted in convincing any of the kids to do this protest. My understanding is that nearly all of the kids protested during their lunch hour and remained on school property. It just so happens that the property line of the school falls on 46th Street, a very busy street in that part of Minneapolis. The Administrators of the school felt that this was acceptable, as do I in retrospect. Some students chose to walk off the school premises and hold signs over the 35W and 46th Street bridge. Those students were hit with a truancy violation, which can end up in suspension, because they walked off the property during school hours. I thought this also was very acceptable. In whole, I believe all acted civil and First Amendment rights were upheld very well. I don't always agree with the School District and I don't always agree with my children's opinions on things, but I do respect them and I think they both deserve our respect in this case. Jeff Seidel Lynnhurst Paul Kuettel wrote: TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] School Walk outs against the war
Hi All! I really appreciate Jeff Seidel's excellent and informative post. It took much of the wind out of my sails and went a ways toward restoring my faith in The Public Education Establishment, at least the that consists of Field Elementary. My biggest misconception was that all Public Elementary Schools are K-6 nowadays. Throwing 7th and 8th graders into the equation does give some credence to the possibility that the protest was organized by soley by the kids. Jeff says that it occured during lunch hour and that most of the kids stayed on school property -- I assume he means the playground, and that the ones who strayed face consequences. Assuming all of this is true, I am sorry for having reacted so viscerally to Linda Mann's initial post. There is still plenty to be concerned about, but the information provided by parent Seidel puts a better, saner perspective on the incident. Cheers! PK Paul Kuettel Falcon Heights Kids in Elementary (my innocent baby girl) Middle-School (the smart-ass with more smart than ass) and High School (a good boy who is staying in class today during a planned walkout) TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] School Walk outs against the war
Paul, Perhaps you should get your information correct before you start making unfounded accusations about schools and teachers. First, the district, in anticipation of walkouts and protests, sent specific guidelines to ALL schools and teachers. These guidelines specifically laid out what could and could not be done in the event of a student walkout. The teachers could say NO but they can NOT restrain students if they do walk out of the classroom. Students, upon THEIR request, were given the opportunity to form a protest during their half hour lunch time. Many anticipated this, due to OTHER PARENTS AND SCHOOL activities which they learned about from older siblings and friends. Therefore, some had their own signs and participated. Others, as is always true with a protest or walkout, participated because it looked like fun. Regardless, this WAS IN NO WAY planned nor was assistance provided by teachers or school officials. The only participation by the adults was to observe and provide a safety net in case of harassment or incident outside the ability of the students to handle. And this was only as long as they remained on school property! Second, I happened to be at the school right after students dispersed for the day. I found teachers greatly distressed that their students did walk out and they felt powerless to prevent them. Again, physical restraint is NOT nor should it be condoned in today's schools. There was an officer present had such restraint been necessary. Many teachers encouraged their students to remain in the classroom and a number of them took the time to allow students to talk about their feelings about the war as part of the class curriculum. Others have encouraged students to write how they felt - and those who participated in the walkout may face similar requirements. Some who did not return in the time allotted will also receive no credit for missed classwork. All students who exceeded the lunch time allotment, will have at least one half day of unexcused absence on their records - officially as this information will be sent to the District. This is per District guidelines. Students who left the school grounds will have additional actions taken as they are considered truant. Although warned, some still left the grounds and returned only to board buses for home. Finally, perhaps your children are too young, too old, or simply don't care, but I can tell you there are many, many students at the middle school level who have very strong feelings about the war. I certainly remember the air raid drills we had and I had no information to form an opinion since details weren't broadcast into my home for breakfast and dinner every day. Today's children have opinions and they have the guts - and the right - to be heard in a way I never did. Did I support my child's participation in the protest? First, I didn't know about it until afterwards. By then, I had heard the comments from teachers, the principal and other parents. Regardless of my feelings, I was proud that my son decided for himself how he felt about the war and participated because HE wanted to . . . it had absolutely nothing to do with my feelings nor with the teachers. Just because you are an adult, it doesn't mean your intellectual and moral judgements are right or supported. I hope my child always keeps the right and the wisdom to determine what he feels about an issue and I certainly hope he always has the right and opportunity to PEACEFULLY show others his perspective. Thank you Field School and the Minneapolis District for preparing our teachers to deal with the anticipated walkouts in an intelligent and non-combative manner while giving students the freedom to make their choice on how to show their feelings about war. Kathy Hacmac PTA Chair, Field School and active parent TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Mpls School walk-outs
I just got back from the protest down at the Federal Court Building. Thousands, many children and youth among the crowd. Very serendipitously, I was talking to a staff member from Anthony Middle School this afternoon, and he told me that my 12-year old son was one of 200 of their students that walked out in protest against the war. He didn't tell me anything about it, nor do I think I will hear about it in retrospect since he tends toward the taciturn. I am very proud, and happy that the acorn didn't fall very far from the tree. Incidentally, the school decided that all kids that walked out would receive after school detention on Monday and write a short reflection piece on what they believe about the war - and why they choose to protest. Seems fair to me. Susan Herridge To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded. --- Ralph Waldo Emerson TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] School Walk outs
Below is an excerpt from the the Wrap a news service from the Guardian newspaper in England I subscribe to. It concerns school walk outs in England (the right wing carping should strike a familiar note). I certainly hope that there isn't any retaliation against students at Field or any other school for exercising their first amendment rights. But in case there is, we can help them by contacting school board members or going to the school board meeting at 807 NE Broadway on the 2nd and last Tuesdays at 4:00. Go to educationright.tripod.com for details (wait until tomorrow, Friday - Doug and I still coming down from that awesome demonstration in town this evening). Lets not let today's students experience the same types of civics lessons my generation received in the 60s around protests against the Vietnam war (I remember being forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance once when my best friend I were caught just mouthing the words). A sort of pacifist jingoism has gripped the country, complains the Telegraph: schoolchildren are taking to the streets to oppose the war. Unauthorised absence from school may still be truancy as far as the authorities are concerned, but that didn't prevent hundreds of pupils massing in Parliament Square yesterday. The only ones with permission to be there, the Times notes ironically, were the Etonians. Prince Harry pulls my peace badges off, one sixth-former said, but revealed that Eton had sanctioned the day off because it believes in free speech. The Mirror's John Pilger urges readers to leave your home, work, college, school ... The polite term is civil disobedience. The street term is rebellion. * Britons urged to join anti-war protests http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,918039,00.html * Times: Schoolchildren bring city to a halt http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,173-617296,00.html TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] School Walk outs
Forgot to sign my post. So in case people out there don't know who's responsible for this latest outrage, Linda Mann Kingfield TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Re: Mpls School walk-outs
Middle school students at Seward also walked out to go to the rally at the U. They too are facing detention as a consequence. Seeing all these kids taking a stand makes me think there may be hope for the world. I can't imagine why anyone would deny our children the rights we hold dear for ourselves. Diane Wiley Powderhorn Peace Zone TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] School Walk outs against the war
While delivering mail today, I came upon a demonstration organized by the students at Field elementary school. About 100 -200 kids lined 46th Street between 4th and 5th Avenues holding signs and cheering every time a car honked in support (so there was a continuous din for about 3 hours). One boy gave me a sign that read: $750,000 is spent on the US military every minute. 40 of those minutes could pay off all the debts the public schools have. He managed to get all this on 2 large pieces of construction paper taped together. Has anyone heard of other schools walking out in protest? Linda Mann Kingfield TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] School Walk outs against the war
You should have gone with your first impulse and not responded... inflammatory and off-topic. Peace, Jason Stone / Nokomis --- Paul Kuettel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All! 100-200 Elementary School Kids? Organized a walkout? C'mon. Could not possibly have happened without help of parents and school officials. Shameful and cowardly to use these innocents as anti-war props. I waited a few hours to respond, first to calm down, and second to see if there was anyone else except me that was disgusted to learn of this. Adults can form their own intellectual and moral judgements. Even some High Schoolers can reason. But no matter what your feelings on this finally-begun war are, leave them damned kids alone. Fiield Elementary should be investigated. Children -- the bastion of cowards. Cheers! PK Paul Kuettel Falcon Heights TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] School Walk outs against the war
To Paul Kuettel re Mpls school children being manipulated to protest: A city issue: Are the citizens of Minneapolis safer or are we more at risk of terrorism than we were yesterday at this time? Does that make anyone else besides me angry? In spite of how rebellious I have always felt about wrong decisions by our leaders at whatever level--school administration, local, county, state or federal government, at different times and places, I rarely was forced by my parents' opinions. Do you honestly believe, Paul, that any kid would protest because of what their parents feel? Not even a chance. However, my thinking is that any good parent will try to keep their children informed in a true and accurate way of the current events of our times, and if the result is for one's child to protest an unjust war, or on the other hand to protest for a just war, then that's what's right and proper. For you to intimate that those protesting against a just war is propoganda or manipulation offends me very much. There are obviously two sides to this argument. Half of us are with me (those who are right) and the other half are with you, apparently. Step up to the bat, take courage, act on your well-thought-out and well-researched convictions. George Bush has done so. And I will do so. And I encourage everyone else to, whether they're 60, 30, or 15 or 12. We're talking life and death here--and it's worth the courage of one's convictions. I deny that naysayers are being manipulated. Rather, I would say the yes-men/women are the ones who think it's too hard to actually research the facts, but rather to trust that those who are elected or appointed know best. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] School Walk outs against the war - Clarification of Point
Hi All! Before this devolves into yet another errant thread about the non-Mpls issue of the War in Iraq, let me try to make my point in a different, perhaps less glib way. Heck, I'm not gonna sleep anyway as long as new developments keep happenning My Point: Is it the policy of Mpls Public Schools to allow 100-200 elementary school kids to get up at the same time from many classrooms, pick up the signs they brought in in the morning (or created in class?) and march out? From my perspective, it is hard to believe that the urchins organized this with their collective little heads filled with mush. By any standard, it is not acceptable, and if their parents were involved, they should be ashamed, and if paid employees of the Mpls school district aided and abetted, they should be fired. I have three kids who went/are going thru a Roseville District elementary school. I cannot in my wildest imagination picture 100, let alone 10 kids getting up at a set time, getting protest signs out of their lockers and marching outside. If by some impossible chance they could evade their teachers, the principal would have stood in front of the door. Those involved would at least have to take a scolding letter back to their parents. For safety's sake, for godsake, if for nothing else, Roseville elementary kids can't even leave school for a doctor appointment or a family emergency without a teacher escorting the kid to the office and their parents signing them out -- after showing id, even if the secretary knows them well. Point again. NOT ABOUT WAR PROTESTING, OR PATRIOTIC DISPLAYS, or even BAD LUNCHROOM FOOD. This is about Mpls Public Schools in general, and Field in particular. Why would someone send their kid to a school system with such disregard for it's duty to provide learning in a safe environment. Middle School? Would't get past the door. Closed campus.. High School? Hard to control these kids, detention or suspension. College and other Adult Kids? Do your thing, just don't wreck property or endanger lives by, say, disrupting rush hour. Hope this saves bandwidth and listmaster headaches by focusing the discussion on the appropriateness of Mpls Schools allowing grade schoolers to leave class and play in traffic. Cheers! PK TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] School Walk outs against the war - Clarification of Point
Obviously you are totally out of touch with how Minneapolis school children think...they are individuals with individual thoughts--some are just looking to play hooky, I bet. Some are just wanting to have some excitement, I bet.some actually know whereof they are speaking or protesting. why are you so agitated? I'm sure there will be equally agitating protests in favor of a war...isn't THAT an exciting thought! Kids will be kids, you know.. N. Russell Longfellow.. TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] School Walk outs against the war - Clarification ofPoint
I've been reading quite a bit recently about students organizing to protest the war. From what I've seen, the general approach by the schools has been to allow walkouts so that students could exercise their rights to free speech and assembly but make sure they were aware of the consequences of leaving class (unexcused absence, etc.). I disagree with Paul's assumption that these ideas must have been planted by parents or teachers. Not long ago, there was a group of middle-school students in St. Paul that organized their classmates to walk out of class to meet in the auditorium for a war discussion all by themselves - how hard could it be to organize a walkout? With kids, you don't even need fliers, word of mouth will do the job just fine and all they have to know is what time to stand up and where to meet outside. Maybe some got help from parents with making signs, but so what? As far as traffic is concerned, I don't know where Field Elementary is, but I remember managing that nifty stoplight contraption in kindergarten when I had to cross Johnson St as I walked over to the old Pillsbury Elementary with my best buddy back in the late 1970's. Though we did have his older brothers who were in second and third grade with us, so I guess I shouldn't brag too much. As a volunteer with an elementary school in St. Paul for the past five years, I've seen some pretty darn intelligent and mature students - hardly a collective group with their heads filled with mush. I believe that description should be reserved for our leaders in Washington DC. The students at Field Elementary should be commended. Mark Snyder Windom Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
