Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer& cd's
Dyna wrote: On a day when another family announces their departure from our once fair city I continue to be amazed at the tortured arguments a few list members make for living and attempting to shop here. BTW, the exodus from Minneapolis continues unabated- the 3 houses on my block are still empty and for sale, Dyna continues to ignore easily obtained and widely known facts to state as "fact" her personal ax-grinding. Three homes still empty in her neighborhood, and there must be a mass exodus! In reality, the opposite is true. Minneapolis' population actually grew between 1990 and 2000, the first time it has grown in decades -- a fact easily verifiable by looking at widely available census data, and trumpeted in headlines in the Minneapolis Star Tribune when the 2000 census data became available. Last Tuesday, a home in my neighborhood went up for sale. Yesterday, it was already sold. Hundreds of new housing units are being built in Minneapolis. Developers are not stupid -- they know they will sell. Where do you suppose those people are coming from? As for the "few list members" -- well, there are only a couple dozen active writers on this list, anyway, so 3 or 4 people is a significant percentage. There may well be others who like me have tired of reading and responding to Dyna's blindered, factually-wrong arguments. Lack of obvious opposition to one's ideas does not make one right. Anyway, from where I sit, it appears the majority, not a few, are in favor of living and shopping in Minneapolis. Strange- I find the highest percentage of american made stuff at a big box- Fleet Farm. BTW, you may not have noticed that we don't make much here anymore. That's right, America's manufacturing capability is greatly diminished and most everything we buy is made off-shore. That's the result of your much-lauded economies of scale and large corporations. Small mom-and-pop businesses, even bigger businesses, cannot afford the huge investment it takes to move operations off shore. Only mega-big corporations can really do that effectively. Once again, your short-sighted support for BIG has resulted in shooting yourself in the foot. Hundreds of thousands of good paying union jobs have ceased to exist because they were moved off shore. And my purchasing power is not about to change a big corporations behavior one iota. Boycotts often only work when a very big customer (like a city) becomes involved in them. And your one single vote for state and federal government likewise has no effect, right? What a defeatist attitude. If enough individual people boycott something, things change. It's happened over and over. How many products has Wal-Mart pulled from their shelves because some small group of close-minded religious zealots complained that they were morally opposed to them? Several in the past 3 years that I can recall. Small businesses also tend to pay less and offer fewer opportunities for advancement for minorities, etc.. Prove it. Give some evidence, any evidence. You are making the statement, therefore, it is incumbent on you to support it. The big company has economies of scale in administration as well as other areas and can spend a lower percentage of revenue on administration. BTW, your small business will probably need a computer/web geek, HR person, etc. too. Once again, where's the evidence? Do you even have a clue? In my experience, big corporations are far less efficient, and have far more administrative over-head. When I worked at Control Data Corporation in the late 70's and 80's, they literally had one-third (33.3%) of the employees as administrative. Control Data was number 70 on the Fortune 100 list, so they were one of the largest companies in the world. I've also worked at 2 of the largest health care companies in the world -- lots and lots of administrative overhead. I've also worked at several small companies -- usually zero or one person did all of the "HR" work. Where I work now, that one person also does the payroll, where as at other companies, we contracted it out to local payroll companies. Hiring out services provides more opportunities for other companies to exist and provide employment. Contracted services are often cheaper than doing in-house, because the service company can specialize in what they do, and horrors, actually gain some economies by doing the same thing for multiple customers. Sears at Chicago and Lake was not big box, regardless of many square feet the store may have been. Likewise with any other historical stores Dyna has mentioned. The term big box came into use recently to describe NOT just the size of a store, but a method of retailing using a large, cheaply constructed building. That method included minimal interior decoration (one did not see the "rafters" in a Sears store); at least a certain square footage that typically was larger than most, but
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
On a day when another family announces their departure from our once fair city I continue to be amazed at the tortured arguments a few list members make for living and attempting to shop here. BTW, the exodus from Minneapolis continues unabated- the 3 houses on my block are still empty and for sale, the Mexican immigrant workers are pretty much gone, and the gangbangers are moving in to take their place. On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 10:42 PM, Mark Snyder wrote: Question: if someone shops at a co-op AND does not own a car, does it logically follow that the co-op patron cannot afford a car? Perhaps it means the co-op patron *gasp* does not WANT a car (I realize this comes as an immense shock to some readers - take a few seconds to get your senses back). I wish I could get by without a car, but on the Northside there a neccessity- it's to dangerous to take the bus or bicycle here. But we certainly can strongly oppose adding MORE of them. We're doing a pretty good job of it over on Central Ave. so far. Yes, I have to admit your co-ops backers have done a very effective job of stacking the neighborhood meetings and keeping competitors like CUB out. I don't think so. The advantage that big boxes claim is low prices. It's certainly not better service - except in the case of competition between big boxes, i.e. Wal-Mart and Target. In addition to providing better service, smaller retailers tend to get more of their products from local suppliers/manufacturers whenever possible. That's part of how they better serve the overall community - by spending locally the dollars that they take in from their neighbors. Strange- I find the highest percentage of american made stuff at a big box- Fleet Farm. BTW, you may not have noticed that we don't make much here anymore. Ahem? I think that downtown Target got a little bit of a handout, didn't it? Didn't Block E, which is home to big box retailer Borders and chains like Applebee's get a little something? Ron Leurquin mentioned earlier this week that part of why the proposal for a Cub Foods on Lowry/Central died was because no subsidy was going to be available. I sure hope Jerry's Foods sticks with their plan of not asking for any subsidy, but forgive me if I don't hold my breath in anticipation. Please read the posts before you reply- I said "currently", and CUB has asked for no subsidy to move to the Northside or Nordeast. You may abhor it, but you still support it with your purchasing choices. Last time I checked, actions spoke louder than words. And my purchasing power is not about to change a big corporations behavior one iota. Boycotts often only work when a very big customer (like a city) becomes involved in them. And the percentage of revenue going to owners (small businesses don't HAVE CEOs) is often less than what goes to the workers. Those who got to the end of that article David Brauer cited yesterday and read the "reader responses" might have noted a couple of examples of small business owners who talked about when times get tough, they end up not paying themselves anything after making payroll. Someone mentioned that an advantage of small businesses is owners are less likely to engage in shenanigans because their families would have to live with the consequences. Small business owners are also far less likely to lay off workers indiscriminately because it's harder to put your friend out on the streets than it is some random human that you know by an employee ID, if that. Small businesses also tend to pay less and offer fewer opportunities for advancement for minorities, etc.. I also have to question the assumption that larger businesses have reduced administrative costs. Take a typical small retailer, for example. You'll have the owner, maybe an in-house accountant and the rest of the employees would be "floor staff" who are out doing the day-to-day work. Contrast that with, oh, say Supervalu. They have a CEO (who made $1.7 million last year, by the way), probably a handful of VPs, a whole pile of "supervisors" or "directors" and then the "floor staff" who are out doing the work. Which system sounds like it has lower administrative costs? The big company has economies of scale in administration as well as other areas and can spend a lower percentage of revenue on administration. BTW, your small business will probably need a computer/web geek, HR person, etc. too. Dyna, nobody gets a pension anymore unless they're fortunate enough to work in a union-represented job like you and I. As for $28K, that works out to about $13-something an hour - far more than any non-union big box retailer is gonna pay and on par with what a union-shop Cub Foods would pay. And how is $28K peanuts to you, anyway? I thought you were supposed to be a poor Northsider? It's sure not peanuts to me - that's what my starting pay was when I began working with the state and that's with a BS in chemistry! $28K won't qualify
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge,computer & cd's
On 6/26/03 12:54 AM, "Dyna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The food at the perverse co-ops we have here is so expensive you need > to have the income of a Young Urban Professional to afford it. Or else > a yuppie wannabe that lives in a cheap apartment in the 'hood and can't > afford a car because they spend so much of their meager income at the > co-op. Question: if someone shops at a co-op AND does not own a car, does it logically follow that the co-op patron cannot afford a car? Perhaps it means the co-op patron *gasp* does not WANT a car (I realize this comes as an immense shock to some readers - take a few seconds to get your senses back). >> The less wholly Minneapolis embraces the big box, in my opinion, the >> more flexible we are, the more easily we may resist major problems if >> the big box trend is reversed. > > The big boxes are here, deal with it. We cannot legally harass them in > hopes they'll leave. But we certainly can strongly oppose adding MORE of them. We're doing a pretty good job of it over on Central Ave. so far. >> For instance, what might happen if the third-world economies producing >> many of our retail goods are allowed to develop to the point where >> they refuse to work for peanuts - either due to the gradual increase >> in living standard promised by free-marketeers or by a local revolt >> against the export economy? If Walmart cannot push its prices down by >> pushing its suppliers' prices down because said suppliers' bottom line >> rises due to fair pricing for labor, can Walmart still function? Will >> the current retail system hold up to such a challenge? > > You underestimate the big boxes ability to adapt, and labor cost > increases will affect WalMarts competitors too. I don't think so. The advantage that big boxes claim is low prices. It's certainly not better service - except in the case of competition between big boxes, i.e. Wal-Mart and Target. In addition to providing better service, smaller retailers tend to get more of their products from local suppliers/manufacturers whenever possible. That's part of how they better serve the overall community - by spending locally the dollars that they take in from their neighbors. >> b) Given that avenues of local, small business are a major factor in >> the success stories of the most successful areas in the Twin Cities >> (and many other cities), we should do our best to even the playing >> field between local small business and multinational corporations. >> This means, at very least, not giving the latter taxpayer-funded >> incentives to locate in our communities. If Targets and Rainbows are >> truly more efficient, better businesses, let them take care of >> themselves. If Jerry's turns around a few years from now and demands >> a handout to stay, we must allow the "free" market to rule. > > None of these businesses are currently asking us for a handout, and it > is not the business of Minneapolis to favor small business over large. Ahem? I think that downtown Target got a little bit of a handout, didn't it? Didn't Block E, which is home to big box retailer Borders and chains like Applebee's get a little something? Ron Leurquin mentioned earlier this week that part of why the proposal for a Cub Foods on Lowry/Central died was because no subsidy was going to be available. I sure hope Jerry's Foods sticks with their plan of not asking for any subsidy, but forgive me if I don't hold my breath in anticipation. Dyna is at least correct that it's not the business of Minneapolis to favor small businesses over large. I just wish it wasn't the business of Minneapolis to favor large businesses over small as that's certainly been the trend in recent years. Who hasn't heard a story about a small business that has been all but screwed by the fact that the city's regulatory process requires a team of lawyers and accountants to even try to negotiate? I remember some campaign promises being made to address that - anybody aware of any progress being made? >> This all leads me to the most fundamental doubt I have about your - >> and other big box boosters' - view of economics: that size is always >> better. There are benefits to bigness, no doubt. But I'm not >> convinced that these benefits have as much to do with "efficiency" as >> they do with economic power. Walmart has the power to force its >> suppliers to lower their prices by threatening to cut them out. >> Walmart has the power to squelch competition by losing money at a >> given store at a rate it can absorb, due to its size. Neither of >> these are examples of an "efficient" use of resources; they are >> examples of the bullying of the weak by the powerful. > > What you are talking about monopoly abuse of power and I abhor it as > much as you. You may abhor it, but you still support it with your purchasing choices. Last time I checked, actions spoke louder than words. > However, the percentage of revenue going to CEO pay in a small > business co
RE: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
No, Dyna is not at all a typical Northsider --- And I hope there aren't many more like her either. As I've stated before, it's hard enough to constantly be deflecting the negative stereotype of our neighborhood from outsiders, but to get it from other residents is really frustrating. And I think there are plenty Northsiders who'd love another place like Destination X where Daina DePrez fans gathered every Friday night. And Peter Ostroushko was a regular customer. Some nights there was a palm reader or a masseuse. It was one fabulous hangout in it's day. Changed my life, that's for sure :-) But I digress . North Mpls has lots of great places to spend your money! C'mon Over! Connie Beckers Proud Folwell Resident and GODDESS OF GLASS www.goddessofglass.com "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." ~John Lennon TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 12:35 PM, Garwood, Robin wrote: First of all, Dyna, your application of the word "yuppie" as a pejorative to everyone who shops at a local co-op not only crosses the line to inflammatory rhetoric, in my view, but is also quite false. It's still eminently possible to buy cheap food at North Country - buy your food in bulk. There are plenty of people of quite limited means who go the co-op route. They have certain commitments/convictions you seem not to have - which is fine, don't get me wrong. It's not fine for you to call them names for following their beliefs. The food at the perverse co-ops we have here is so expensive you need to have the income of a Young Urban Professional to afford it. Or else a yuppie wannabe that lives in a cheap apartment in the 'hood and can't afford a car because they spend so much of their meager income at the co-op. in my opinion, big boxes are a facet of an unsustainable growth / land use / energy use pattern that we will, at some point, be forced to revisit, much as we're having to revisit and at least partially undo our 50-year experiment with road-only infrastructure. First, lets define big box as a building with a footprint of over a hectare. The Sears building and Dayton's (I refuse to call it Marshall Field's) downtown store thusly qualify as big boxes. Both of these buildings pretty much predated mass automobile use and suburbanization. So it is proven that the big box can survive without the automobile, in fact Sear's was canabalized by suburban Sear's. The less wholly Minneapolis embraces the big box, in my opinion, the more flexible we are, the more easily we may resist major problems if the big box trend is reversed. The big boxes are here, deal with it. We cannot legally harass them in hopes they'll leave. For instance, what might happen if the third-world economies producing many of our retail goods are allowed to develop to the point where they refuse to work for peanuts - either due to the gradual increase in living standard promised by free-marketeers or by a local revolt against the export economy? If Walmart cannot push its prices down by pushing its suppliers' prices down because said suppliers' bottom line rises due to fair pricing for labor, can Walmart still function? Will the current retail system hold up to such a challenge? You underestimate the big boxes ability to adapt, and labor cost increases will affect WalMarts competitors too. b) Given that avenues of local, small business are a major factor in the success stories of the most successful areas in the Twin Cities (and many other cities), we should do our best to even the playing field between local small business and multinational corporations. This means, at very least, not giving the latter taxpayer-funded incentives to locate in our communities. If Targets and Rainbows are truly more efficient, better businesses, let them take care of themselves. If Jerry's turns around a few years from now and demands a handout to stay, we must allow the "free" market to rule. None of these businesses are currently asking us for a handout, and it is not the business of Minneapolis to favor small business over large. This all leads me to the most fundamental doubt I have about your - and other big box boosters' - view of economics: that size is always better. There are benefits to bigness, no doubt. But I'm not convinced that these benefits have as much to do with "efficiency" as they do with economic power. Walmart has the power to force its suppliers to lower their prices by threatening to cut them out. Walmart has the power to squelch competition by losing money at a given store at a rate it can absorb, due to its size. Neither of these are examples of an "efficient" use of resources; they are examples of the bullying of the weak by the powerful. What you are talking about monopoly abuse of power and I abhor it as much as you. Major corporations have, historically, used their resources in quite inefficient ways. Examples (Enron, Kmart, etc.) surely come to mind. Think of the loop between the producer of a material good, the retailer, and the consumer (who, in classical capitalist thought, is her/himself a producer) as an electrical circuit. Which system allows more "current" to escape, the one shifting voltage to a plug it will be siphoned off by power-guzzling appliances like CEO Salary and Advertising Budget, or the one with a small, steady rate of loss along the transmission line? I'm not sure there's a "factual" answer to this question - especially if one reduces the loss in the latter system by shortening the transmission lines in question. However, the percentage of revenue going to CEO pay in a small business could easily be much higher in a small business. You also forget that economies of scale in larger business tend to reduce administrave costs. In short, modern central
RE: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
First of all, Dyna, your application of the word "yuppie" as a pejorative to everyone who shops at a local co-op not only crosses the line to inflammatory rhetoric, in my view, but is also quite false. It's still eminently possible to buy cheap food at North Country - buy your food in bulk. There are plenty of people of quite limited means who go the co-op route. They have certain commitments/convictions you seem not to have - which is fine, don't get me wrong. It's not fine for you to call them names for following their beliefs. Now, I've read all of Mark's posts, and I really didn't hear him saying "no big boxes, ever." I don't want to put words in his mouth, but here are the messages I took from his posts: a) Big boxes are not the panacea you seem to believe them to be. I agree with this position. Big boxes may or may not detract from their surrounding communities, depending on the community in question, but we should not have absolute faith in their ability to "save" a neighborhood. Also, in my opinion, big boxes are a facet of an unsustainable growth / land use / energy use pattern that we will, at some point, be forced to revisit, much as we're having to revisit and at least partially undo our 50-year experiment with road-only infrastructure. The less wholly Minneapolis embraces the big box, in my opinion, the more flexible we are, the more easily we may resist major problems if the big box trend is reversed. For instance, what might happen if the third-world economies producing many of our retail goods are allowed to develop to the point where they refuse to work for peanuts - either due to the gradual increase in living standard promised by free-marketeers or by a local revolt against the export economy? If Walmart cannot push its prices down by pushing its suppliers' prices down because said suppliers' bottom line rises due to fair pricing for labor, can Walmart still function? Will the current retail system hold up to such a challenge? b) Given that avenues of local, small business are a major factor in the success stories of the most successful areas in the Twin Cities (and many other cities), we should do our best to even the playing field between local small business and multinational corporations. This means, at very least, not giving the latter taxpayer-funded incentives to locate in our communities. If Targets and Rainbows are truly more efficient, better businesses, let them take care of themselves. If Jerry's turns around a few years from now and demands a handout to stay, we must allow the "free" market to rule. This all leads me to the most fundamental doubt I have about your - and other big box boosters' - view of economics: that size is always better. There are benefits to bigness, no doubt. But I'm not convinced that these benefits have as much to do with "efficiency" as they do with economic power. Walmart has the power to force its suppliers to lower their prices by threatening to cut them out. Walmart has the power to squelch competition by losing money at a given store at a rate it can absorb, due to its size. Neither of these are examples of an "efficient" use of resources; they are examples of the bullying of the weak by the powerful. Major corporations have, historically, used their resources in quite inefficient ways. Examples (Enron, Kmart, etc.) surely come to mind. Think of the loop between the producer of a material good, the retailer, and the consumer (who, in classical capitalist thought, is her/himself a producer) as an electrical circuit. Which system allows more "current" to escape, the one shifting voltage to a plug it will be siphoned off by power-guzzling appliances like CEO Salary and Advertising Budget, or the one with a small, steady rate of loss along the transmission line? I'm not sure there's a "factual" answer to this question - especially if one reduces the loss in the latter system by shortening the transmission lines in question. In short, modern centralized economic systems may have the appearance of efficiency while paradoxically being the most wasteful resource distribution scheme in history. In response to some of your specific comments: "Being that your cite [sic] is 13 years old that means we now have 4 million or so farm workers with said illness?" The borders to this country - as I'm sure you know - are a little bit porous. New sub-poverty migrant workers are available to replace those who die or leave the agriculture sector. Your attempt at refutation here was pretty weak: no counter evidence, just a sarcastic tone. "Most of the local co-ops are a perversion of the traditional co-op principles. They employee working class folks at service industry wages to serve upper class customers. BTW, I've had friends who work at the local food co-ops who can't even afford a car." Again, little evidence contrary to Mark's point. One anecdote, which I will counterbala
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
In a message dated 6/24/03 1:34:08 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Bugger off. >> Jon Sez: Is it just me or does anyone else feel that the septic spirit of the departed N.E. Krasnov has somehow (ectoplamically?) inhabited Dyna's soul? I think pissing matches if that's what turns you on, should be held off-line. So I'll get off now. Jon Gorder Loring Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
Dyna sure tries to paint a poverty stricken and crime riddled view of North Mpls and I'm here to say that while we have those things, it's not the ENTIRE image of North Mpls. Geez, EVERY neighborhood in the WORLD has problems to deal with and it's unfair to characterize an entire community based on your negative perspective! Let me tell you more about North Mpls from the perspective of a proud, happy and committed resident. DYNA WROTE: I'm talking about a bakery that can feed a city, not just a few yuppies. We can't afford $3 a loaf bread on the Northside. CB SEZ: Speak for yourself -- I can afford a $3 loaf of bread and so can plenty of other folks I know here on the Northside. We're not ALL living in poverty here -- some people are, sure, and the CUB will serve their needs. DYNA: Only the hair stylist, hardware, and auto parts store fit well the Northside's demographic. We have plenty of empty apartments already, thank you. CB: Again, you speak for your neighbors on the Northside as if NONE of us would EVER use those services. I think the Northside needs a Kinko's type place, a bookstore and antique store would be great, and I think we could support another coffeeshop similar more to the old Destination X in offering night entertainment. We could use a video rental store, as well. We've got two really great hardware stores, an auto parts store on Broadway and even a florist on Dowling & Humboldt not to mention Aardvark Balloons and Carlson Drug for cards. There are two coffeeshops up this way, Penn Station for a burger, Top Diner's open all day now in their new location and DQ has fabulous chili dogs and is one of the few in town with chocolate soft serve :-) And have I mentioned Kowalski's in my other posts?!? I can't tell you how much we love that store! A friend of mine did a comparison and found that most of their prices were comparable to CUB but since they do so much to support our neighborhood and they're real close, I don't need no stinkin' CUB -- I'm glad it'll be there for those who do, though :-) And these are just a few of the great businesses we've got to offer -- not to mention our great parks with walking and bike paths! And Victory Parkway -- it's a good feeling to see so many people walking their dogs, playing football and really using that green space! Simply speaking, while some view the Northside as a crime ridden, poverty stricken haven for hookers and drug dealers, that's just a small part of who we are. I'm one of those folks who's pretty tired of always having to defend where she lives due to melodramatic media coverage -- we had two live news crews at the Spring Art Party on June 7th but neither, to my knowledge, mentioned our goal of improving the overall image of our community by spotlighting some of the artists who live and work here! Oh well, the fact that people saw us on TV and came to see what was going on was good enough for now, I guess. DYNA: Been there, done that- I was involved in the early days of North County and was a member of Whole Foods Co-op in the 70s. When they went up market they lost me. CUB will pretty much eliminate the need for a real food co-op in the Northside, and I'd have no reason to join a yuppie one. CB: Again, you speak for your neighbors -- I'd shop at a co-op and so would a lot of people I know here in North Mpls. We're looking forward to the one Northeast which will serve us fine for now -- until we get more folks here to support our very own. DYNA; Being neither an artist nor finacially able to consume art I won't bother them. CB: You'd be no bother at all -- it's free to come in and look at the artwork and there are no high-handed sales pressure, believe me. Thanks to Mark for spotlighting Homewood. George and Bev Roberts are wonderful people and we're lucky to have them there. They renovated an old grocery into artist studios and a gallery space. I, for one, am having a show there in August -- the arrangements are far easier than a high-brow art gallery and they don't take a commission of my sales so I don't have to raise my prices! YAY! DYNA: Depends on what your looking for- we have an army of hookers and a crack house on damn near every block. As I write it's past midnight and the neighborhood gangbangers are sending up another barrage of fireworks. CB: And this just simply is NOT true! Dyna, you're not helping the image of your neighborhood by making unilaterally false statements like this! I've lived in my home for 20 years now and while I've seen some "changes" in the neighborhood, I'm one of those that doesn't just let that stuff happen. I'm out there chattin' with the young people asking them to not light off their fireworks; I tell the folks who visit my neighbors and leave their loud music blasting to turn it down; I tell the hookers to get lost; and I report things to law enforcement so they'll come out and take care of the problem. It doesn't always work but at least I'm trying to do somethin
RE: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
Dyna If your attitude is that us "yuppies" should "bugger off" then I will grant your wish. I do not, and never will, consider myself a "yuppie". Good luck to you if all you can do is find the bad stuff in North. Ron Leurquin -Original Message- From: Dyna [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 1:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 10:05 PM, Mark Snyder wrote: > There was only one Northsider who mistakenly assumed that I prefer > organic > cotton because I was worried about my own exposure to toxic chemicals. > List > members can draw their own conclusions. John, I was making humor of your organic cotton fetish... perhaps you have other more humourous reasons? > At the risk of stating what I should think would be obvious, someone > being > diagnosed with an illness does not mean they died of that illness or > had to > quit working right away, but if you want my source, here you go: Being that your cite is 13 years old that means we now have 4 million or so farm workers with said illness? > Funny, that's where I got the recommendation for the washing machine I > ended > up buying. I bought it in June of 2001 after reading about the > benefits of > front-loading washers. I use about half as much water as I did with > the old > top-loader, a lot less electricity and my clothes are subjected to less > abuse, too. Of course, I paid more up front, but I'm figuring between > the > water, the electricity and the clothes that last longer, I'm easily > going to > recoup that upfront cost and then some. So you paid through the nose for a washer that maybe saves a little energy and water for the hour or so a week you use it- did you do a cost/benefit analysis? BTW, I have a Whirlpool Washer too- 'cept it doesn't say Whirlpool on it and I paid less than $200 for it new. > Again, the local models everyone likes to > point to are Grand Ave. in St. Paul, Eat Street in south Minneapolis > and > more recently, Central Ave. NE. What do those have in common? They > don't > have big boxes, but somehow, they're still managing to do quite well at > attracting shoppers and bringing stable jobs and investment to their > respective communities. And providing lots of low wage part time jobs with no health care or pension. > Anyway, a bakery sounds good, but why not some small retail bakeries > like > Nan's NE Bakery or Blackey's Bakery? They seem to be holding up pretty > well > against the big chains. I'm talking about a bakery that can feed a city, not just a few yuppies. We can't afford $3 a loaf bread on the Northside. > Add in some restaurants, some clothing stores, a tax > preparer or accountant, a bookstore, some coffee shops, a card and gift > shop, some hair stylists, a bike shop, an antique or art supply store, > a > copy/printing shop, a florist, a hardware or auto parts store, a video > rental store, one or more small (2-3 story) apartment buildings etc. Only the hair stylist, hardware, and auto parts store fit well the Northside's demographic. We have plenty of empty apartments already, thank you. > Can you back up that statement? Got a report, a web site, interviews > with > employees at any of the local ones that you can cite? If coops are > such a > crappy place to work, how come there is far less turnover at the coops > then > at big box retailers? I've shopped at Mississippi Market for close to > two > years now and pretty much all the employees that were there when I > started > are still there. How many big box retailers can you say that about? > Especially ones that aren't unionized? Most of the local co-ops are a perversion of the traditional co-op principles. They employee working class folks at service industry wages to serve upper class customers. BTW, I've had friends who work at the local food co-ops who can't even afford a car. > By the way, MY coop is over on Central Ave. If one opens on West > Broadway, > that would be YOUR coop, even if you're not open-minded enough to try > checking it out. Been there, done that- I was involved in the early days of North County and was a member of Whole Foods Co-op in the 70s. When they went up market they lost me. CUB will pretty much eliminate the need for a real food co-op in the Northside, and I'd have no reason to join a yuppie one. > Lucille's Kitchen may not be on West Broadway, but it's a Northside > institution, nonetheless. Been there, done that... > Café Tatta Buna may not sell a 5
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 10:05 PM, Mark Snyder wrote: There was only one Northsider who mistakenly assumed that I prefer organic cotton because I was worried about my own exposure to toxic chemicals. List members can draw their own conclusions. John, I was making humor of your organic cotton fetish... perhaps you have other more humourous reasons? At the risk of stating what I should think would be obvious, someone being diagnosed with an illness does not mean they died of that illness or had to quit working right away, but if you want my source, here you go: Being that your cite is 13 years old that means we now have 4 million or so farm workers with said illness? Funny, that's where I got the recommendation for the washing machine I ended up buying. I bought it in June of 2001 after reading about the benefits of front-loading washers. I use about half as much water as I did with the old top-loader, a lot less electricity and my clothes are subjected to less abuse, too. Of course, I paid more up front, but I'm figuring between the water, the electricity and the clothes that last longer, I'm easily going to recoup that upfront cost and then some. So you paid through the nose for a washer that maybe saves a little energy and water for the hour or so a week you use it- did you do a cost/benefit analysis? BTW, I have a Whirlpool Washer too- 'cept it doesn't say Whirlpool on it and I paid less than $200 for it new. Again, the local models everyone likes to point to are Grand Ave. in St. Paul, Eat Street in south Minneapolis and more recently, Central Ave. NE. What do those have in common? They don't have big boxes, but somehow, they're still managing to do quite well at attracting shoppers and bringing stable jobs and investment to their respective communities. And providing lots of low wage part time jobs with no health care or pension. Anyway, a bakery sounds good, but why not some small retail bakeries like Nan's NE Bakery or Blackey's Bakery? They seem to be holding up pretty well against the big chains. I'm talking about a bakery that can feed a city, not just a few yuppies. We can't afford $3 a loaf bread on the Northside. Add in some restaurants, some clothing stores, a tax preparer or accountant, a bookstore, some coffee shops, a card and gift shop, some hair stylists, a bike shop, an antique or art supply store, a copy/printing shop, a florist, a hardware or auto parts store, a video rental store, one or more small (2-3 story) apartment buildings etc. Only the hair stylist, hardware, and auto parts store fit well the Northside's demographic. We have plenty of empty apartments already, thank you. Can you back up that statement? Got a report, a web site, interviews with employees at any of the local ones that you can cite? If coops are such a crappy place to work, how come there is far less turnover at the coops then at big box retailers? I've shopped at Mississippi Market for close to two years now and pretty much all the employees that were there when I started are still there. How many big box retailers can you say that about? Especially ones that aren't unionized? Most of the local co-ops are a perversion of the traditional co-op principles. They employee working class folks at service industry wages to serve upper class customers. BTW, I've had friends who work at the local food co-ops who can't even afford a car. By the way, MY coop is over on Central Ave. If one opens on West Broadway, that would be YOUR coop, even if you're not open-minded enough to try checking it out. Been there, done that- I was involved in the early days of North County and was a member of Whole Foods Co-op in the 70s. When they went up market they lost me. CUB will pretty much eliminate the need for a real food co-op in the Northside, and I'd have no reason to join a yuppie one. Lucille's Kitchen may not be on West Broadway, but it's a Northside institution, nonetheless. Been there, done that... Café Tatta Buna may not sell a 50-cent cup o' java, but from what I've heard from friends, it's becoming a popular place to catch a spoken word performance on a Friday night. Some of us work nights. As for Homewood Studios (http://www.homewoodstudios.com/index.html), it's far more than just a place to buy art. It's a place to MAKE art. It's run by my old creative writing teacher at Minneapolis North, George Roberts. They have classes on drawing, writing, tai chi and so on. They offer shows, readings, community dialogues and opportunities for local students at North and Henry to display their work. People really need to check this place out. Being neither an artist nor finacially able to consume art I won't bother them. I think there's more good stuff going on over on the Northside than people realize. Unfortunately, it seems like some of the area's own residents have the hardest time seeing just what some of those good things are. Depends on what your looki
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge,computer & cd's
On 6/23/03 12:38 AM, "Dyna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mark, thank you for helping to edumicate us dumb Northsiders. BTW, > cotton is pretty much picked and processed by machines rather than > humans nowdays. There was only one Northsider who mistakenly assumed that I prefer organic cotton because I was worried about my own exposure to toxic chemicals. List members can draw their own conclusions. >> I've read that approximately 300,000 farm workers annually are >> diagnosed with illnesses related to pesticides exposure in the United States. > > Given that we have only a few million farm workers it sounds like were > going to be running out of them in a few years... better check your > numbers. At the risk of stating what I should think would be obvious, someone being diagnosed with an illness does not mean they died of that illness or had to quit working right away, but if you want my source, here you go: AFTER SILENT SPRING, NRDC, June 1993, pg.16 US Congress, Office of Technology Assessment, Neurotoxicity: "IDENTIFYING AND CONTROLLING POISONS OF THE NERVOUS SYSTEM" OTA Document BA-436,Washington DC. April 1990, pg.285. > Price is not a good predictor of quality- look at some of Consumer's > Unions ratings if you don't believe me. Funny, that's where I got the recommendation for the washing machine I ended up buying. I bought it in June of 2001 after reading about the benefits of front-loading washers. I use about half as much water as I did with the old top-loader, a lot less electricity and my clothes are subjected to less abuse, too. Of course, I paid more up front, but I'm figuring between the water, the electricity and the clothes that last longer, I'm easily going to recoup that upfront cost and then some. > Well, sounds like you don't want any more retail jobs, so how about > expanding the rail yards and maybe putting in a big new flour mill, > cereal plant, and wholesale bakery? Please explain how my comments against big boxes translates to "you don't want any more retail jobs" - I've certainly advocated for retail along West Broadway. Just not the idea that getting a few big box retailers in the area is going to solve everything. Again, the local models everyone likes to point to are Grand Ave. in St. Paul, Eat Street in south Minneapolis and more recently, Central Ave. NE. What do those have in common? They don't have big boxes, but somehow, they're still managing to do quite well at attracting shoppers and bringing stable jobs and investment to their respective communities. Anyway, a bakery sounds good, but why not some small retail bakeries like Nan's NE Bakery or Blackey's Bakery? They seem to be holding up pretty well against the big chains. Add in some restaurants, some clothing stores, a tax preparer or accountant, a bookstore, some coffee shops, a card and gift shop, some hair stylists, a bike shop, an antique or art supply store, a copy/printing shop, a florist, a hardware or auto parts store, a video rental store, one or more small (2-3 story) apartment buildings etc. Doesn't that sound good? Know where I got these ideas from? The "Making Central Ave. Great" Plan that was developed for the NE neighborhoods along Central Ave. several years ago. I was given a copy when I became a board member for the NE Community Development Corporation last year. I'm currently working my way through a 70-page MS Word document titled "Commercial Corridor Revitalization Program" that was prepared towards the end of last year. It discusses both Central Ave. and West Broadway, incidentally and it makes a lot of the same points that I've made. > And your beloved little co-op yuppie food store pays squat too. Can you back up that statement? Got a report, a web site, interviews with employees at any of the local ones that you can cite? If coops are such a crappy place to work, how come there is far less turnover at the coops then at big box retailers? I've shopped at Mississippi Market for close to two years now and pretty much all the employees that were there when I started are still there. How many big box retailers can you say that about? Especially ones that aren't unionized? > Mark, we have plenty of empty storefronts on West Broadway and your > yuppie co-op is welcome to them. Just don't expect any city subsidy and > don't expect the city to keep CUB and other competitors out for your > yuppie co-op's benefit. Agreed, there are plenty of empty storefronts on West Broadway where a co-op would fit well. The Eastside Food Coop will be something like 4,000 square feet when it opens this fall, so it's not like a huge amount of space is needed. And as I said, it looks like Cub Foods taking over the Target site is a done deal, so I can hardly expect other competitors to be kept out. By the way, MY coop is over on Central Ave. If one opens on West Broadway, that would be YOUR coop, even if you're not open-minded enough to try checking it out. >> I ask for some good things that mig
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
On Sunday, June 22, 2003, at 10:44 AM, Mark Snyder wrote: I don't choose organic cotton whenever possible because I'm worried about being exposed to pesticides. I choose it because I'd rather not purchase products where farmers and farm workers, their families and those who live near the farms are being exposed to large amounts of toxic pesticides. Mark, thank you for helping to edumicate us dumb Northsiders. BTW, cotton is pretty much picked and processed by machines rather than humans nowdays. I've read that approximately 300,000 farm workers annually are diagnosed with illnesses related to pesticides exposure in the United States. Given that we have only a few million farm workers it sounds like were going to be running out of them in a few years... better check your numbers. Sears actually offered lower prices than several other retailers. My last washing machine cost me a hundred bucks less than Sears' best price. a Craftsman lawn mower that I remember my grampa using when I was a little kid. Since I'm 31, it's got to be around 25 or 30 years old. Aside from oil changes, blade sharpenings and maybe a few tuneups, it's never needed any work and it still runs perfectly fine, though it does probably require an extra pull or two on the starter cord than when it was new. At one time Sears stuff was pretty decent quality and there parts and service operation was the best in the business. Those qualities were deemed to be unneccessary expense by more recent Sears management and largely eliminated. Anybody got a story like that about something they bought at Fleet Farm? Plenty of decent stuff- Milwaukee power tools, Carhardts, etc.. I'm peeved that they switched from domestic to Chinese suppliers for their private label gloves though. They tried this with boots and it didn't work... That's when I learned that paying a little more for quality isn't such a bad thing. Price is not a good predictor of quality- look at some of Consumer's Unions ratings if you don't believe me. Any other union big box retailers out there that Broadway should seek? From what I've seen, such retailers usually pay out lousy wages and are also generally strongly anti-union. Well, sounds like you don't want any more retail jobs, so how about expanding the rail yards and maybe putting in a big new flour mill, cereal plant, and wholesale bakery? So let's see just how this works: We have a community with mostly low-income folks, so we try to draw in a big box retailer that offers low-priced goods that these poor folks can afford, but then of course, that big box retailer pays squat, so we end up stuck in a fairly vicious cycle, don't we now? And your beloved little co-op yuppie food store pays squat too. And none of them have natural food co-ops in their communities now, do they? So if one were to locate on West Broadway somewhere, then in retailer language, that's what's known as a "destination" for drawing folks into your community. Because do you know what those folks are doing now? They're traveling through the Northside to I-94 without stopping and then heading down to the Wedge. Mark, we have plenty of empty storefronts on West Broadway and your yuppie co-op is welcome to them. Just don't expect any city subsidy and don't expect the city to keep CUB and other competitors out for your yuppie co-op's benefit. And these are the kinds of folks I'd think the Northside would like to have more of. After all, one of them is a med student at the U who is about to start her rotations and the other is going for his PhD in history. We also have plenty of empty houses here and your friends are welcome to them. I don't expect they'll last long though. "[Walker] claimed that the vitality of established smaller scale businesses was bruised when Target established the Broadway store - now the shopping facility is closing, she added, 'the area is even worse off than before their arrival.'" I'm old enough to remember what wasn't on the Target site before Target. The largest building was Northside Mercury, which had already rebuilt after the fire and moved back into their old building across Broadway, so that building was already empty. The Post Office was already moving out and consolidating with the Camden station at the current Lowry Avenue location. The only other business I remember on the Target site was a tiny resturant and barber shop. The resturant could never compete with Bernie's across the street and was empty by then, and I suspect the barbershop was too. So Target caused little or no displacement of small businesses when they came in. I ask for some good things that might draw people to the Northside and this is the best you can come up with? A grocery store that's not open yet and an Asian takeout place in the middle of an urban strip mall? I realize that's not up to your sophisticated tastes, but hey, we're just dumb Northsiders. Geez, Dyna! What about Lucille's
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge,computer & cd's
On 6/21/03 11:05 PM, "Dyna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As long as you don't eat pesticide laden clothing while pregnant you > should be OK. Dyna may not quite be able to grasp this concept, but some of us actually take our concern for others into account when making purchasing decisions. I don't choose organic cotton whenever possible because I'm worried about being exposed to pesticides. I choose it because I'd rather not purchase products where farmers and farm workers, their families and those who live near the farms are being exposed to large amounts of toxic pesticides. I've read that approximately 300,000 farm workers annually are diagnosed with illnesses related to pesticides exposure in the United States. I've also read that conventional cotton growing is responsible for some 25% of the pesticides used annually worldwide. Again, that may put me a little out there, but I'm used to it. > Sears is overpriced on just about everything, and why would I drive to > St.Paul when I can be fleeced just as well at the nearby Brookdale > Sears? Well, when one recalls that I work as a state government mule in St. Paul about a mile or so from that Sears, then perhaps it becomes clearer why I would choose it over Brookdale. I get that whole "combine trips to save gas" benefit, plus the view of the Capitol is a far cry better than anything out in Brooklyn Center. And actually, I was recently asked about washing machines by a friend of mine who recently bought a house in Jordan neighborhood and discovered that Sears actually offered lower prices than several other retailers. And people can say what they want about Sears' prices, but I know this: my gramma owns a Craftsman lawn mower that I remember my grampa using when I was a little kid. Since I'm 31, it's got to be around 25 or 30 years old. Aside from oil changes, blade sharpenings and maybe a few tuneups, it's never needed any work and it still runs perfectly fine, though it does probably require an extra pull or two on the starter cord than when it was new. Anybody got a story like that about something they bought at Fleet Farm? How about Home Depot or Menard's? I made the mistake of buying a lawn mower from Menard's once because it was cheaper. That's when I learned that paying a little more for quality isn't such a bad thing. > A lot of what ails us as a community here is our low income, > aggravated by the shortage of affordable basic goods that the "boxes" > could provide. Another yuppie food co-op is not the answer to the > Northside's problems. OK, I think everyone is aware that low incomes are certainly a big part of what ails the Northside. Now we've heard this Cub Foods that will take over the Target site will be unionized, so that should help for the 100 or so folks that get jobs there, assuming Jerry's Foods will place an emphasis on hiring locally. Any other union big box retailers out there that Broadway should seek? From what I've seen, such retailers usually pay out lousy wages and are also generally strongly anti-union. So let's see just how this works: We have a community with mostly low-income folks, so we try to draw in a big box retailer that offers low-priced goods that these poor folks can afford, but then of course, that big box retailer pays squat, so we end up stuck in a fairly vicious cycle, don't we now? Now, while I'll admit that I can't personally understand it myself, I'm willing to concede that there may be some folks on the Northside who just plain aren't interested in shopping at a natural foods co-op. But I'll bet there are some folks up Hwy 81 that are. And none of them have natural food co-ops in their communities now, do they? So if one were to locate on West Broadway somewhere, then in retailer language, that's what's known as a "destination" for drawing folks into your community. Because do you know what those folks are doing now? They're traveling through the Northside to I-94 without stopping and then heading down to the Wedge. Heck, my friends that live in Jordan neighborhood do that now. They're not going to shop at the Cub Foods that opens at the Target site, one of them has already told me they're going to stick with the Wedge until the Eastside Food Coop opens. And these are the kinds of folks I'd think the Northside would like to have more of. After all, one of them is a med student at the U who is about to start her rotations and the other is going for his PhD in history. > With a CUB coming in that's about to change. The CUB will have a > synergistic affect and draw more customers to the area who will > patronize other businesses in the area. You mean like the Target did? Sure, Dyna...let's compare that theory to what Rep. Neva Walker said in the June 10th edition of Insight News: "[Walker] claimed that the vitality of established smaller scale businesses was bruised when Target established the Broadway store - now the shopping facility is closing, she added, 'the area is even worse off tha
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 11:33 PM, Mark Snyder wrote: Let's see, last time I checked, clothes were basics. Maybe I'm a little out there for preferring hemp or organic cotton to the stuff grown with massive amounts of pesticides, but they're still clothes. As long as you don't eat pesticide laden clothing while pregnant you should be OK. Also, last time I checked, Dinkytown is still part of Minneapolis, as is Hennepin Ave. South and Johnson St. If people really want to know about my basics like TP and toothpaste and laundry detergent, well, I get those at Mississippi Market, along with my groceries, for four more months until the Eastside Food Coop opens about seven blocks from me. It'll be nice to walk to the market again like I did with my mom as a kid. It'll be nice to have a CUB a few blocks from me- not only will I save the environment by avoiding the long drive to the Northeast co-op, but I'll save a lot of money too. Keith is certainly correct that I am a single person. I make $39,000 a year, so yes, I have some discretionary income. And I try to spend as much of it as possible in the city, which sometimes means St. Paul. And yes, Sears is a big box, but as I've admitted before, there are some cases where a big box makes sense. Appliances would be one of them, though if I find a small appliance store in the city like the one that used to be on Central Ave, I'd shop there instead. If anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them since I'll probably be looking for a refrigerator soon. Sears is overpriced on just about everything, and why would I drive to St.Paul when I can be fleeced just as well at the nearby Brookdale Sears? MY whole point against big boxes is that there seems to be a fixation that they are the only solution to what ails West Broadway and the Northside and I think that's a pretty poor approach to take. A lot of what ails us as a community here is our low income, aggravated by the shortage of affordable basic goods that the "boxes" could provide. Another yuppie food co-op is not the answer to the Northside's problems. I failed to mention any of my dollars being spent on the Northside because for the almost two years I've been participating in this Forum, I've heard only, "There's nothing on the Northside, the Northside sucks, the few stores around are dirty, with bad service and understocked, everyone has to go out to Robbinsdale or Brooklyn Park or come Northeast to get their groceries, their clothes, anything above and beyond toothpaste or TP." With a CUB coming in that's about to change. The CUB will have a synergistic affect and draw more customers to the area who will patronize other businesses in the area. So why should I waste my time going to where there's supposedly nothing but vacant storefronts and a crappy Target that's closing in a month? If I wanted to shop at Target, there's one less than a half a mile from me at the Quarry. But here's a tip, if you want to get people to shop in your area, share some GOOD things that might draw us. CUB, the asian take out in Hawthorne Crossings, etc.. I suppose I could've mentioned the liking I've taken to AJ's Smokehouse, but I've only been there twice so I can't really call it a part of my routine yet. Is Friedman's Shoes still open? My sneakers are starting to get pretty worn. I think I remember hearing something good about a hardware store on Penn and Lowry - maybe I could check them out since I hate Home Depot. It appears that Friedmans will easily outlive Target. The hardware store you speak of is OK but Fleet Farm is a lot cheaper. If you need metric fastners and such, the hardware store at 18th and Nicolet is the best in town. But more big boxes aren't going to draw me to the Northside. Maybe something unique will. It's kind of like that guy that wrote in the Strib recently about Block E - why should he make the effort to go downtown for Border's and Applebee's when he's got those kinds of places back home in Eden Prairie or wherever he lives? And why should I go anywhere for boutique stuff I can't afford? As far as Jerry's Cub coming to West Broadway, I hope it works out and I hope the Houston's Market across the street thrives when it opens next month. The jobs are certainly needed. But I won't be shopping there or at any Cub Foods if I can help it. Not when there will be a lot better place for me to get my groceries that's a lot closer to me. Mark, I save a lot of money by shopping at CUB, Fleet Farm, etc.. I have to save up money because as Minneapolis becomes increasingly unliveable I may need to purchase property elsewhere. hanging on in Hawthorne, Dyna Sluyter Mark Snyder Windom Park Hitting the sack now so I can get up for the NE Farmer's Market on Saturday morning - http://www.eastsidefoodcoop.org/farmersmarket.htm TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge,computer & cd's
Let's see, last time I checked, clothes were basics. Maybe I'm a little out there for preferring hemp or organic cotton to the stuff grown with massive amounts of pesticides, but they're still clothes. Also, last time I checked, Dinkytown is still part of Minneapolis, as is Hennepin Ave. South and Johnson St. If people really want to know about my basics like TP and toothpaste and laundry detergent, well, I get those at Mississippi Market, along with my groceries, for four more months until the Eastside Food Coop opens about seven blocks from me. It'll be nice to walk to the market again like I did with my mom as a kid. Keith is certainly correct that I am a single person. I make $39,000 a year, so yes, I have some discretionary income. And I try to spend as much of it as possible in the city, which sometimes means St. Paul. And yes, Sears is a big box, but as I've admitted before, there are some cases where a big box makes sense. Appliances would be one of them, though if I find a small appliance store in the city like the one that used to be on Central Ave, I'd shop there instead. If anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them since I'll probably be looking for a refrigerator soon. MY whole point against big boxes is that there seems to be a fixation that they are the only solution to what ails West Broadway and the Northside and I think that's a pretty poor approach to take. I failed to mention any of my dollars being spent on the Northside because for the almost two years I've been participating in this Forum, I've heard only, "There's nothing on the Northside, the Northside sucks, the few stores around are dirty, with bad service and understocked, everyone has to go out to Robbinsdale or Brooklyn Park or come Northeast to get their groceries, their clothes, anything above and beyond toothpaste or TP." So why should I waste my time going to where there's supposedly nothing but vacant storefronts and a crappy Target that's closing in a month? If I wanted to shop at Target, there's one less than a half a mile from me at the Quarry. But here's a tip, if you want to get people to shop in your area, share some GOOD things that might draw us. I suppose I could've mentioned the liking I've taken to AJ's Smokehouse, but I've only been there twice so I can't really call it a part of my routine yet. Is Friedman's Shoes still open? My sneakers are starting to get pretty worn. I think I remember hearing something good about a hardware store on Penn and Lowry - maybe I could check them out since I hate Home Depot. But more big boxes aren't going to draw me to the Northside. Maybe something unique will. It's kind of like that guy that wrote in the Strib recently about Block E - why should he make the effort to go downtown for Border's and Applebee's when he's got those kinds of places back home in Eden Prairie or wherever he lives? As far as Jerry's Cub coming to West Broadway, I hope it works out and I hope the Houston's Market across the street thrives when it opens next month. The jobs are certainly needed. But I won't be shopping there or at any Cub Foods if I can help it. Not when there will be a lot better place for me to get my groceries that's a lot closer to me. Mark Snyder Windom Park Hitting the sack now so I can get up for the NE Farmer's Market on Saturday morning - http://www.eastsidefoodcoop.org/farmersmarket.htm TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Where do you (NOT) buy your groceries, vcr, fridge, computer & cd's
Keith says; Mr. Snyder rhetorically queries "...just where can you buy some of the basics in the city?" Then he tells us where he gets his hemp pants, salsa music, and geegaws. He clearly has discretionary income. He is probably a single person hence fewer, and less immediate, needs then a family; and more discretionary time to "shop around". He has advised us to "Leave the big boxes to the suburbanites and shop at home." But he has not shopped at home. He still could not meet many of his purchasing needs in his neighborhood or in Mpls, which was MY point. And NONE of his purchases were made in North Mpls. By the way, St. Paul Sears is a BIGBOX. I welcome Jerrry's Cub to West Broadway, if we could add a couple more such shopping choices we would strengthen our Avenue; and the budgets of the folks in North Mpls. Maybe even Mr. Snyder would have a reason to visit us; and spend a buck. Keith Reitman Everyday on West BroadwayNearNorth PS- I got "Tagged" with that poster graffiti mentioned by another poster; nice as spit. In a message dated 6/20/03 11:31:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Keith asks a good question - just where can you buy some of the basics in > the city? > > His mentioning CDs reminded me of an article I just read the other day in > the Northeaster about the explosion of independent music stores recently in > NE Minneapolis. We now have four! > > Aardvark Records (924 Lowry Ave NE) is described as a neighborhood store > with a little bit of everything. They stock new and used CDs, tapes and > *gasp* vinyl records! Be still my heart! > > The Connect (339 13th Ave NE) is advertised as NE's hip-hop headquarters, > featuring local artists such as Unknown Prophets. They also sell urban > streetwear. It's really kind of pleasantly stunning to contemplate there > being a store like this in my sleepy little 'hood. :-) > > Elite Records (2520 Central Ave NE) focuses on rap, hip-hop and R&B artists. > They also sell some DVDs and futons, apparently since the owner's mom runs a > nearby furniture store and futons have a good profit margin. > > Last, but not least is Mambo King (1842 Central Ave NE) which has been > around for a few years. As the name suggests, they carry mostly music with a > Latin flavor. > > As for other stuff, I've posted frequently about where I shop for groceries, > so I'm not going to bore anyone with more of that talk. > > I bought my stereo system several years ago at Stereoland on Hennepin Ave. > South. It sticks in my mind because I bought it in two stages and when I > went back for the second stage, the sales man at the time remembered me, > even though it'd probably been six months or more since I'd been in the > store. Now that's service! > > And you can buy stuff like TVs, VCRs or DVD players there, too. > > I bought my washing machine at the Sears in St. Paul a couple years ago. > Same with my mulching lawnmower. Last year, I sprung for a reel mower to get > some more exercise and use less gas. Bought that at the Hi-Lake True Value > and even got to use a $15 off coupon from my Blue Sky Guide! > > The shorts I'm wearing as I type this came from the old Dinkytown Hemporium. > I have several things from there, mostly sweaters. No, you can't smoke them. > > I buy greeting cards and stuff like that usually at Avalon either on Grand > Ave in St. Paul or in Dinkytown, though I recently checked out Dabble on > 29th and Johnson St and that's a pretty cool little gift shop so I'll > probably go back there from time to time. > > Like Jon Gorder said, it's really not that hard. And nearly always, you end > up with better quality and sometimes even better prices. > > Leave the big boxes to the suburbanites and shop at home. > > Mark Snyder > Windom Park > TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
