Re: [mb-style] Merging [silence] with different duration from different albums
Nikki-3 wrote Johannes Weißl wrote: Hello, I know this has been discussed before [1], but has this ever been decided? Do we merge pure [silence] recordings from different albums with different duration? See http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15613386 http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15542655 I guess nobody (at least not now) wants to merge [silence] from different artists... [1] http://musicbrainz-mailing-lists.2986109.n2.nabble.com/silence-data-track-recordings-in-NGS-td6199874.html I do :P Nikki Me too. But what are the side effects? E.g. will Picard set the compilation flag for a single artist album that contains silent tracks? How about tracklists? There is no reason not to apply the same rule there as well unless the side effects are different. -- View this message in context: http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/Merging-silence-with-different-duration-from-different-albums-tp4097975p4098841.html Sent from the Musicbrainz - Style mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Merging [silence] with different duration from different albums
On 23/11/2011 08:27, MeinDummy wrote: Nikki-3 wrote Johannes Weißl wrote: Hello, I know this has been discussed before [1], but has this ever been decided? Do we merge pure [silence] recordings from different albums with different duration? See http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15613386 http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15542655 I guess nobody (at least not now) wants to merge [silence] from different artists... [1] http://musicbrainz-mailing-lists.2986109.n2.nabble.com/silence-data-track-recordings-in-NGS-td6199874.html I do :P Nikki Me too. But what are the side effects? E.g. will Picard set the compilation flag for a single artist album that contains silent tracks? How about tracklists? There is no reason not to apply the same rule there as well unless the side effects are different. Surely you're not saying all recordings of silence are the same! John Cage frowns on your shenanigans. - Si ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Merging [silence] with different duration from different albums
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Simon Austin chi...@auzsoft.net wrote: On 23/11/2011 08:27, MeinDummy wrote: Nikki-3 wrote Johannes Weißl wrote: Hello, I know this has been discussed before [1], but has this ever been decided? Do we merge pure [silence] recordings from different albums with different duration? See http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15613386 http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15542655 I guess nobody (at least not now) wants to merge [silence] from different artists... [1] http://musicbrainz-mailing-lists.2986109.n2.nabble.com/silence-data-track-recordings-in-NGS-td6199874.html I do :P Nikki Me too. But what are the side effects? E.g. will Picard set the compilation flag for a single artist album that contains silent tracks? How about tracklists? There is no reason not to apply the same rule there as well unless the side effects are different. Surely you're not saying all recordings of silence are the same! John Cage frowns on your shenanigans. Indeed. But I think we can agree all digital - as opposed to recorded - silences are the same indeed? - Si ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style -- Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Merging [silence] with different duration from different albums
MeinDummy wrote: Me too. But what are the side effects? E.g. will Picard set the compilation flag for a single artist album that contains silent tracks? How about tracklists? There is no reason not to apply the same rule there as well unless the side effects are different. It imagine it will if you change the track artist. I don't think it will if only the recording artist is changed. It would make sense to me to still use the release artist as the track artist for single artist releases so that a release with [silence] tracks remains a single artist release on the website and in Picard. Nikki ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Idea: remove track durations from analog releases
On 18/11/2011 17:54, Alex Mauer wrote: Discussion on IRC[1] brought up the idea that perhaps it would be useful to remove the possibility of setting track durations from releases which don’t have clearly-defined track boundaries or durations (I believe this is mostly analog releases, but there may be some exceptions in either direction). The situation is: * phonograph records (in particular) have no clearly-defined duration (especially since the last groove locks and loops forever We don't actually add release times, just track times so I don't see that this is that relevant, * They also have no clearly-defined separation between individual tracks (the gaps visible on a phonograph with multiple tracks are only visual, and have their own duration (typically at least 1.8 seconds) * Track durations printed on covers or center labels are frequently several seconds off, and frequently have typos (number transposition is common) I think that track durations as put on the cover are usually the correct thing to use, unless they are actually a typo, because this is what the artist/record label view as the length of the track even if maybe at a technical sense it might not be. And to say we shouldn't store this information because it doesn't match the actual recording length makes no sense to me, surely the main point of having track lengths and recording lengths is to be able to record these differences. My proposed solution to this is to remove the possibility of having *track* durations on releases where this applies. Instead, the displayed durations would be those of the *recordings*, which will usually be taken from and shared with a digital version, so can be pulled from a discID or file. Completely disagree, and you seem to have a very CD/Digital centric view of the world. Also when exact recordings is put onto a Vinyl and then CD , the track times, gaps ectera ARE Different even though it was the same original recording, so using the CD times as if they are the times for the Vinyl release is just plain wrong IMO. Paul ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Merging [silence] with different duration from different albums
Nikki-3 wrote MeinDummy wrote: Me too. But what are the side effects? E.g. will Picard set the compilation flag for a single artist album that contains silent tracks? How about tracklists? There is no reason not to apply the same rule there as well unless the side effects are different. It imagine it will if you change the track artist. I don't think it will if only the recording artist is changed. It would make sense to me to still use the release artist as the track artist for single artist releases so that a release with [silence] tracks remains a single artist release on the website and in Picard. Nikki That's what I thought, too. I just wanted to get this confirmed by the dev's for both the website and for Picard. So does the release display on the website depend on whether all track artists are the same? And does Picard set the compilation flag depending on whether all track or recording artists are the same? Or does it depend on the normalization settings (which seem to be gone in v0.16 ???) whether Picard checks track or recording artists to find out if a release is a compilation? Christian (MD) -- View this message in context: http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/Merging-silence-with-different-duration-from-different-albums-tp4097975p4099952.html Sent from the Musicbrainz - Style mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
[mb-style] RFV-340: Improve CC-license links
Hello, this is the RFV to improve license links, by: 1. Introducing a new License Relationship Type 2. Obsoleting the Creative Commons Licensed Download 3. Adding a drop-down list of some often used licenses (= license URLs) to the Free Download and Paid Download Relationship Wiki page: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Proposal:Improve_CC-license_links Expiration date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:00:00 UTC Johannes ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFV-340: Improve CC-license links
jw wrote Hello, this is the RFV to improve license links, by: 1. Introducing a new License Relationship Type 2. Obsoleting the Creative Commons Licensed Download 3. Adding a drop-down list of some often used licenses (= license URLs) to the Free Download and Paid Download Relationship Wiki page: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Proposal:Improve_CC-license_links Expiration date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:00:00 UTC Johannes +1 -- View this message in context: http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/RFV-340-Improve-CC-license-links-tp406p4100071.html Sent from the Musicbrainz - Style mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFV-340: Improve CC-license links
On Wed, 2011-11-23 at 16:15 +0100, Johannes Weißl wrote: Hello, this is the RFV to improve license links, by: 1. Introducing a new License Relationship Type 2. Obsoleting the Creative Commons Licensed Download 3. Adding a drop-down list of some often used licenses (= license URLs) to the Free Download and Paid Download Relationship Wiki page: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Proposal:Improve_CC-license_links Expiration date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:00:00 UTC +1, but the License Relationship Type text could be a bit better. Maybe something like: This links a release to a URL containing the text of a copyright license which applies to it. -- Calvin Walton calvin.wal...@kepstin.ca ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Merging [silence] with different duration from different albums
On 23/11/11 15:01, MeinDummy wrote: That's what I thought, too. I just wanted to get this confirmed by the dev's for both the website and for Picard. So does the release display on the website depend on whether all track artists are the same? And does Picard set the compilation flag depending on whether all track or recording artists are the same? Or does it depend on the normalization settings (which seem to be gone in v0.16 ???) whether Picard checks track or recording artists to find out if a release is a compilation? I may be wrong, but as far as I'm aware since Picard works by setting ID3 or Vorbis tags on individual files, there is no way for it to flag anything on whether all those files have the same artist. It is up to your player/library software to decide whether a group of tracks are a) in the same album and b) whether that album is a compilation. In theory, a player could look at the MB releasetype tag set by Picard on all the files, or the release MBId, but many just rely on the name of the album and the artist(s) - which is depressing at times. - Si ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Merging [silence] with different duration from different albums
On Wed, 2011-11-23 at 21:08 +, Simon Austin wrote: On 23/11/11 15:01, MeinDummy wrote: That's what I thought, too. I just wanted to get this confirmed by the dev's for both the website and for Picard. So does the release display on the website depend on whether all track artists are the same? And does Picard set the compilation flag depending on whether all track or recording artists are the same? Or does it depend on the normalization settings (which seem to be gone in v0.16 ???) whether Picard checks track or recording artists to find out if a release is a compilation? I may be wrong, but as far as I'm aware since Picard works by setting ID3 or Vorbis tags on individual files, there is no way for it to flag anything on whether all those files have the same artist. It is up to your player/library software to decide whether a group of tracks are a) in the same album and b) whether that album is a compilation. In theory, a player could look at the MB releasetype tag set by Picard on all the files, or the release MBId, but many just rely on the name of the album and the artist(s) - which is depressing at times. That's not quite true. The compilation flag we are talking about is internal to Picard. Picard has the ability to use different file naming patterns if a release is detected as a compilation vs. otherwise, for example. I think this flag can also be checked in tagger script to do different things based on whether a release is a compilation or not. -- Calvin Walton calvin.wal...@kepstin.ca ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFV-340: Improve CC-license links
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 02:32:23PM -0500, Calvin Walton wrote: Wiki page: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Proposal:Improve_CC-license_links +1, but the License Relationship Type text could be a bit better. Maybe something like: This links a release to a URL containing the text of a copyright license which applies to it. Any comments from (other) native speakers? I have no problem changing the text. Johannes ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Merging [silence] with different duration from different albums
On 23/11/11 09:28, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren wrote: On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Simon Austin chi...@auzsoft.net wrote: Surely you're not saying all recordings of silence are the same! John Cage frowns on your shenanigans. Indeed. But I think we can agree all digital - as opposed to recorded - silences are the same indeed? On a purely theoretical basis, outside of MB concerns, no, I don't think you can make that assumption. On the MB front, what're the reasons for and benefits of doing it? - Si ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFV-340: Improve CC-license links
On 11/23/2011 03:28 PM, Johannes Weißl wrote: On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 02:32:23PM -0500, Calvin Walton wrote: Wiki page: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Proposal:Improve_CC-license_links +1, but the License Relationship Type text could be a bit better. Maybe something like: This links a release to a URL containing the text of a copyright license which applies to it. Any comments from (other) native speakers? I have no problem changing the text. That text seems a little awkard to me, but I can’t think of a better wording. —Alex Mauer “hawke” ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Merging [silence] with different duration from different albums
On 23/11/11 21:14, Calvin Walton wrote: On Wed, 2011-11-23 at 21:08 +, Simon Austin wrote: On 23/11/11 15:01, MeinDummy wrote: That's what I thought, too. I just wanted to get this confirmed by the dev's for both the website and for Picard. So does the release display on the website depend on whether all track artists are the same? And does Picard set the compilation flag depending on whether all track or recording artists are the same? Or does it depend on the normalization settings (which seem to be gone in v0.16 ???) whether Picard checks track or recording artists to find out if a release is a compilation? I may be wrong, but as far as I'm aware since Picard works by setting ID3 or Vorbis tags on individual files, there is no way for it to flag anything on whether all those files have the same artist. It is up to your player/library software to decide whether a group of tracks are a) in the same album and b) whether that album is a compilation. In theory, a player could look at the MB releasetype tag set by Picard on all the files, or the release MBId, but many just rely on the name of the album and the artist(s) - which is depressing at times. That's not quite true. The compilation flag we are talking about is internal to Picard. Picard has the ability to use different file naming patterns if a release is detected as a compilation vs. otherwise, for example. I think this flag can also be checked in tagger script to do different things based on whether a release is a compilation or not. Sorry, misunderstood. I think that will trigger off multiple artist name for the tracks - my copy of the expanded Seventeen Seconds by The Cure has two tracks by Cult Hero, so even though it's an album releasetype, the filenames use the VA scheme. Actually, let's have a quick look: for track in self._new_tracks: track.metadata[~totalalbumtracks] = totalalbumtracks if len(artists) 1: track.metadata[compilation] = 1 Not a python expert, but len(artists) 1 would appear to be an array size check. - Si ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Merging [silence] with different duration from different albums
On 23/11/11 08:27, MeinDummy wrote: Nikki-3 wrote Johannes Weißl wrote: Hello, I know this has been discussed before [1], but has this ever been decided? Do we merge pure [silence] recordings from different albums with different duration? See http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15613386 http://musicbrainz.org/edit/15542655 I guess nobody (at least not now) wants to merge [silence] from different artists... [1] http://musicbrainz-mailing-lists.2986109.n2.nabble.com/silence-data-track-recordings-in-NGS-td6199874.html I do :P Nikki Me too. But what are the side effects? E.g. will Picard set the compilation flag for a single artist album that contains silent tracks? How about tracklists? There is no reason not to apply the same rule there as well unless the side effects are different. BTW, on a purely logistical note... there appear to be around 20,000 recordings entitled [silence]. I don't think they can be merged manually. - Si ___ MusicBrainz-style mailing list MusicBrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
