Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[Tom Crocker]

On 21 February 2014 13:49, symphonick  wrote:

> 2014-02-21 12:52 GMT+01:00 Tom Crocker :
>
>
>>
>>
>> On 21 February 2014 11:38, symphonick  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> BTW, are venues with retractable roofs "indoors"?
>>>
>>>
>> Of all the ones I know of, in English they would still be stadia. There
>> are complications like the Saporro dome - an enclosed stadium, I guess on
>> account of it having stands around a sporting surface.
>>
>
>  "Friends Arena" in Sweden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_Arena
> The first line from wikipedia:
> *Friends Arena*, the Association 
> footballnational arena of
> Sweden , is a retractable 
> roof multi-purpose
> stadium  [snip]
>
> In the Swedish text, both "national stadium" and "national arena" can be
> found.
>

Yes, there's quite a few stadia called "[X] arena"
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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[symphonick]

2014-02-21 12:52 GMT+01:00 Tom Crocker :

>
>
>
> On 21 February 2014 11:38, symphonick  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> BTW, are venues with retractable roofs "indoors"?
>>
>>
> Of all the ones I know of, in English they would still be stadia. There
> are complications like the Saporro dome - an enclosed stadium, I guess on
> account of it having stands around a sporting surface.
>

 "Friends Arena" in Sweden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_Arena
The first line from wikipedia:
*Friends Arena*, the Association
footballnational
arena of
Sweden , is a retractable
roof multi-purpose
stadium  [snip]

In the Swedish text, both "national stadium" and "national arena" can be
found.

/symphonick
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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[Tom Crocker]

On 21 February 2014 11:38, symphonick  wrote:

>
>
> BTW, are venues with retractable roofs "indoors"?
>
>
Of all the ones I know of, in English they would still be stadia. There are
complications like the Saporro dome - an enclosed stadium, I guess on
account of it having stands around a sporting surface.
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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren]

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:38 PM, symphonick  wrote:

>
>
>
> 2014-02-21 11:21 GMT+01:00 Frederic Da Vitoria :
>
> 2014-02-21 11:03 GMT+01:00 symphonick :
>>
>> Interesting. In Swedish, an arena is a scene; stadium translates to
>>> "sports arena".
>>>
>>
>> You mean that in Swedish, the difference is more about usage that about
>> architecture? There is this in French too. Hm, human languages don't lend
>> themselves to dichotomous analysis :-)
>>
>
> If I got this right, a stadium (Swe. "stadion") is something specific: a
> sports venue for track 'n field, football and so on (architecture). Arena
> means "scene" in a much broader sense.
>
> But in practice I'm not sure. Many sports venues in Sweden have the
> English word "arena" in the (English or Swenglish) name.
>
> BTW, are venues with retractable roofs "indoors"?
>

http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Place#Type says no :)

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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[symphonick]

2014-02-21 11:21 GMT+01:00 Frederic Da Vitoria :

> 2014-02-21 11:03 GMT+01:00 symphonick :
>
> Interesting. In Swedish, an arena is a scene; stadium translates to
>> "sports arena".
>>
>
> You mean that in Swedish, the difference is more about usage that about
> architecture? There is this in French too. Hm, human languages don't lend
> themselves to dichotomous analysis :-)
>

If I got this right, a stadium (Swe. "stadion") is something specific: a
sports venue for track 'n field, football and so on (architecture). Arena
means "scene" in a much broader sense.

But in practice I'm not sure. Many sports venues in Sweden have the English
word "arena" in the (English or Swenglish) name.

BTW, are venues with retractable roofs "indoors"?

/symphonick
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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2014-02-21 11:03 GMT+01:00 symphonick :

> Interesting. In Swedish, an arena is a scene; stadium translates to
> "sports arena".
>

You mean that in Swedish, the difference is more about usage that about
architecture? There is this in French too. Hm, human languages don't lend
themselves to dichotomous analysis :-)

-- 
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(davitof)

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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2014-02-21 10:53 GMT+01:00 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren :

>
> On 21 Feb 2014 11:37, "Frederic Da Vitoria"  wrote:
> >
> > 2014-02-21 0:22 GMT+01:00 jesus2099 :
> >
> >> and i will never know or remember the difference between arena and
> stadium as
> >> in my language there is only one word and the reasons to distingushi
> them
> >> are both obscure to me and not related to music altogether.
> >> it seems that the distinction may be subjective or subject to change
> with
> >> time (based on what sport is played in it).
> >>
> >> but it will always be a VENUE. ;)
> >
> >
> > You are speaking of French, right? There are two words in French
> ("arène" and "stade") which seem close to arena and stadium. But IIUC they
> have completely different meanings in the two languages. In English, it
> seems the difference is more about indoor versus outdoors. In French, the
> difference is more about the age of the structure, "arène" would better
> translate to bullring. The risk here is that French (other languages may
> have the same issue) users would mistakenly translate "arène" to arena.
> Maybe the label could be changed to "indoor arena" or "arena (indoor)"
>
> Actually it was added as Indoor arena :)
>

You foresaw this?

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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[symphonick]

Interesting. In Swedish, an arena is a scene; stadium translates to "sports
arena".


2014-02-21 10:53 GMT+01:00 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren :

>
> On 21 Feb 2014 11:37, "Frederic Da Vitoria"  wrote:
> >
> > 2014-02-21 0:22 GMT+01:00 jesus2099 :
> >
> >> and i will never know or remember the difference between arena and
> stadium as
> >> in my language there is only one word and the reasons to distingushi
> them
> >> are both obscure to me and not related to music altogether.
> >> it seems that the distinction may be subjective or subject to change
> with
> >> time (based on what sport is played in it).
> >>
> >> but it will always be a VENUE. ;)
> >
> >
> > You are speaking of French, right? There are two words in French
> ("arène" and "stade") which seem close to arena and stadium. But IIUC they
> have completely different meanings in the two languages. In English, it
> seems the difference is more about indoor versus outdoors. In French, the
> difference is more about the age of the structure, "arène" would better
> translate to bullring. The risk here is that French (other languages may
> have the same issue) users would mistakenly translate "arène" to arena.
> Maybe the label could be changed to "indoor arena" or "arena (indoor)"
>
> Actually it was added as Indoor arena :)
>
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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren]

On 21 Feb 2014 11:37, "Frederic Da Vitoria"  wrote:
>
> 2014-02-21 0:22 GMT+01:00 jesus2099 :
>
>> and i will never know or remember the difference between arena and
stadium as
>> in my language there is only one word and the reasons to distingushi them
>> are both obscure to me and not related to music altogether.
>> it seems that the distinction may be subjective or subject to change with
>> time (based on what sport is played in it).
>>
>> but it will always be a VENUE. ;)
>
>
> You are speaking of French, right? There are two words in French ("arène"
and "stade") which seem close to arena and stadium. But IIUC they have
completely different meanings in the two languages. In English, it seems
the difference is more about indoor versus outdoors. In French, the
difference is more about the age of the structure, "arène" would better
translate to bullring. The risk here is that French (other languages may
have the same issue) users would mistakenly translate "arène" to arena.
Maybe the label could be changed to "indoor arena" or "arena (indoor)"

Actually it was added as Indoor arena :)
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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2014-02-21 0:22 GMT+01:00 jesus2099 :

> and i will never know or remember the difference between arena and stadium
> as
> in my language there is only one word and the reasons to distingushi them
> are both obscure to me and not related to music altogether.
> it seems that the distinction may be subjective or subject to change with
> time (based on what sport is played in it).
>
> but it will always be a VENUE. ;)
>

You are speaking of French, right? There are two words in French ("arène"
and "stade") which seem close to arena and stadium. But IIUC they have
completely different meanings in the two languages. In English, it seems
the difference is more about indoor versus outdoors. In French, the
difference is more about the age of the structure, "arène" would better
translate to bullring. The risk here is that French (other languages may
have the same issue) users would mistakenly translate "arène" to arena.
Maybe the label could be changed to "indoor arena" or "arena (indoor)"

-- 
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org
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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[jesus2099]

and i will never know or remember the difference between arena and stadium as
in my language there is only one word and the reasons to distingushi them
are both obscure to me and not related to music altogether.
it seems that the distinction may be subjective or subject to change with
time (based on what sport is played in it).

but it will always be a VENUE. ;)



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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[jesus2099]

i like the current simple dichotomy Studio vs. Venue.
IMO it covers all aspects of music recording and as MB is about music I can
always edit without hesitation with only those two. :)



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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren]

After the poll, the results were that most people did want the new types,
but there was almost a tie about whether to add them as one type or two.
Nikki pointed out that merging them would be much simpler than splitting
them, so we decided to add them separately for now and if eventually we
decide to merge the two, that should be trivial. So, the types have now
been added.
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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[lixobix]

+1, I don't see any problem here, nor with Church, Buddhist Temple, Community
Centre, Music Hall, MUsic Venue, Club etc.

Although I would say 'Stadium' and 'Arena' should be separate. 



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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[caller#6]

On 01/21/2014 09:00 AM, caller#6 wrote:

On 01/21/2014 04:15 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren wrote:
Stadiums and sports arenas aren't really a "venue" in the traditional 
sense, but plenty of concerts take place in them. Can we add them as 
a type?


RFVing this since only one person seemed opposed (as opposed to a 
quite strongly divided reaction to Place of Worship). If people 
disagree with this one too and they just were commenting generally 
under PoW, please say so :)


Ticket: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-278 


Expected passing date: Jan 24



Yeah, all my comments on PoW also apply to Stadiums. Sorry, I should 
have said so.


So, to recap.
1. ideally, I'd either
a. define 'venue' as the umbrella term for anywhere music is 
performed or events take place, or
b. rename 'venue' to 'musical venue' or something more 
specific, if that's how people are using it.
2. I'm mildly against building out our own list of sub-types, but 
wouldn't veto it
3. I agree with Freso, this feels like data that we could be 
pulling in from outside sources. dbpedia maybe?

(example dbpedia entry: http://dbpedia.org/page/Fantasy_Studios )


Alex / caller#6



Oops. Forgot:
4. If we do go ahead with building our own list of types, I like 
that the ones you started with are in schema.org!

a. http://schema.org/PlaceOfWorship
b. http://schema.org/StadiumOrArena

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Re: [mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[caller#6]

On 01/21/2014 04:15 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren wrote:
Stadiums and sports arenas aren't really a "venue" in the traditional 
sense, but plenty of concerts take place in them. Can we add them as a 
type?


RFVing this since only one person seemed opposed (as opposed to a 
quite strongly divided reaction to Place of Worship). If people 
disagree with this one too and they just were commenting generally 
under PoW, please say so :)


Ticket: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-278 


Expected passing date: Jan 24



Yeah, all my comments on PoW also apply to Stadiums. Sorry, I should 
have said so.


So, to recap.
1. ideally, I'd either
a. define 'venue' as the umbrella term for anywhere music is 
performed or events take place, or
b. rename 'venue' to 'musical venue' or something more 
specific, if that's how people are using it.
2. I'm mildly against building out our own list of sub-types, but 
wouldn't veto it
3. I agree with Freso, this feels like data that we could be 
pulling in from outside sources. dbpedia maybe?

(example dbpedia entry: http://dbpedia.org/page/Fantasy_Studios )


Alex / caller#6

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[mb-style] RFV STYLE-278: Add "Stadium/Arena" as place type

[Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren]

Stadiums and sports arenas aren't really a "venue" in the traditional
sense, but plenty of concerts take place in them. Can we add them as a type?

RFVing this since only one person seemed opposed (as opposed to a quite
strongly divided reaction to Place of Worship). If people disagree with
this one too and they just were commenting generally under PoW, please say
so :)

Ticket: http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-278
Expected passing date: Jan 24

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