Re: reply to list (was Re: disable beep sound)
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 11:57:13AM -0500, Kyle Wheeler wrote: On Saturday, August 23 at 08:46 PM, quoth Chris Bannister: Is there anything wrong with NOT having a subscribe command for any mailing lists you are subscribed to in your .muttrc? Well, without them, you can't use patterns like ~l or ~u. Also, without them, mutt doesn't set the Mail-Followup-To header properly (which helps avoid receiving duplicate responses due to people responding to all and thus sending to both the list and to you). Also, the %L pattern for the $index_format won't work properly, and the messages won't be properly labeled in the index (see $to_chars). But other than that, there's no point. Ahh, The Life of Brian; great movie. ;) I see, thanks. :) -- Chris. == I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Sir Stephen Henry Roberts
Re: reply to list (was Re: disable beep sound)
Hi, * Kyle Wheeler wrote: Well, without them, you can't use patterns like ~l or ~u. Also, without them, mutt doesn't set the Mail-Followup-To header properly (which helps avoid receiving duplicate responses due to people responding to all and thus sending to both the list and to you). Also, the %L pattern for the $index_format won't work properly, and the messages won't be properly labeled in the index (see $to_chars). First, at least one mailing lists considers setting Mail-Followup-To headers to achieve exactly that (no duplicate messages) being rude, e.g. http://marc.info/?l=gitm=121218565402351w=2 though I consider that way of handling a mailing list rude, too since they still time from me by forcing me to deal with duplicate messages. Second, since mutt already knows about List-Post to reply to a list list even without a subscribe or list command, it should be taught how to detect mailing lists completely. That way only mailing lists without a given set of headers would require list commands. Though it still requires issuing subscribe commands as mutt cannot distinct between subscribed/unsubscribed lists easily (looking for Delivered-To: or the like would get too messy to work in general I guess). Rocco
Re: reply to list (was Re: disable beep sound)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, August 26 at 04:57 PM, quoth Rocco Rutte: First, at least one mailing lists considers setting Mail-Followup-To headers to achieve exactly that (no duplicate messages) being rude, e.g. http://marc.info/?l=gitm=121218565402351w=2 though I consider that way of handling a mailing list rude, too since they still time from me by forcing me to deal with duplicate messages. Ye gods... 1. It's not rude to others: it merely indicates a preference. If you want to reply to someone privately, you may do so. If this moron cannot configure his email program to do that, then that's his problem for using a lousy email program. When *I* want to reply to someone on a mailing list privately, I press 'L', and my mailer (mutt) constructs a message with only the original sender as a recipient. The MFT header is for LIST REPLIES (which, for me, is 'r' whenever I'm viewing a mailing list message). 2. Yes, placing SOMEONE ELSE in your MFT is kinda goofy (or rude, I suppose). That's why the only things that should be allowed in your MFT are your own address and the mailing list's address. I can't imagine why mutt would include him in the MFT header; that seems broken to me. I agree with Junio that Stephan shouldn't have put HIS address in the MFT, but the idea that an MFT header is rude in general is absurd. Mutt's documentation says: The [MFT] header will contain ONLY the list's address for subscribed lists, and both the list address and your own email address for unsubscribed lists. (emphasis mine). I can only imagine that Stephan must have used an overly generous regex (such as one ending in .*) to specify the mailing list address, in order to get the MFT to include Junio's address. Second, since mutt already knows about List-Post to reply to a list list even without a subscribe or list command, it should be taught how to detect mailing lists completely. That way only mailing lists without a given set of headers would require list commands. That only applies when we are replying to a message. When I compose a new message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], I want it to match the ~l send-hooks that I've set up. The only way for mutt to know that that's a mailing list address is for me to tell it. Though it still requires issuing subscribe commands as mutt cannot distinct between subscribed/unsubscribed lists easily (looking for Delivered-To: or the like would get too messy to work in general I guess). Agreed, though I think we can make a stronger statement: there's absolutely no way for mutt to ascertain the current state of a person's list subscription status based on the message alone. For example, I could unsubscribe to a mailing list, and then decide to reply to a few of the last messages that I received. Those messages were sent (and received) while I was subscribed, but nothing in them will inform mutt that I *just* unsubscribed. And, of course, when composing a new message, there is no prior message for mutt to consult to even attempt to detect my subscription status. ~Kyle - -- Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem. -- John Galsworthy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Thank you for using encryption! iEYEARECAAYFAki0KeYACgkQBkIOoMqOI15OAQCfQwVzqkBx/al5kMDETsx+2GyN wUEAoMuHOo8sNWy3J5snNaGxUvgvb+8J =2guy -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: reply to list (was Re: disable beep sound)
Hi, * Kyle Wheeler wrote: Second, since mutt already knows about List-Post to reply to a list list even without a subscribe or list command, it should be taught how to detect mailing lists completely. That way only mailing lists without a given set of headers would require list commands. That only applies when we are replying to a message. When I compose a new message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], I want it to match the ~l send-hooks that I've set up. The only way for mutt to know that that's a mailing list address is for me to tell it. ...which should only apply to fcc-stored messages but not for the ones you get back from the list. Agreed, though I think we can make a stronger statement: there's absolutely no way for mutt to ascertain the current state of a person's list subscription status based on the message alone. For example, I could unsubscribe to a mailing list, and then decide to reply to a few of the last messages that I received. Those messages were sent (and received) while I was subscribed, but nothing in them will inform mutt that I *just* unsubscribed. Sure. What I meant is not to replace list with list detection, but to make mutt a little smarter. For example, you may clean up your mutt config and use it later to read some really old archived mail containing mailing lists you don't have subscribe/list commands for any longer. In that case for example ~l can be made to work (which would be better than nothing). Or you get mails forwarded to lists you haven't configured. And, of course, when composing a new message, there is no prior message for mutt to consult to even attempt to detect my subscription status. It's also not about detecting subscription status at any point, just another attempt to detect non-list mail as actually list-mail by looking at certain mailing list headers. Rocco
Re: reply to list (was Re: disable beep sound)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, August 23 at 08:46 PM, quoth Chris Bannister: Is there anything wrong with NOT having a subscribe command for any mailing lists you are subscribed to in your .muttrc? Well, without them, you can't use patterns like ~l or ~u. Also, without them, mutt doesn't set the Mail-Followup-To header properly (which helps avoid receiving duplicate responses due to people responding to all and thus sending to both the list and to you). Also, the %L pattern for the $index_format won't work properly, and the messages won't be properly labeled in the index (see $to_chars). But other than that, there's no point. ~Kyle - -- Compassion is the basis of morality. -- Arnold Schopenhauer -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Thank you for using encryption! iEYEARECAAYFAkiwQWkACgkQBkIOoMqOI16ypQCfcKHZFnZWFb9dVd+BBnU+xwh4 T8oAoOS+sH48ltCogr6JdLe3a50H8ZFi =RCVu -END PGP SIGNATURE-
