Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
While I hesitate to argue DNS with Mark, I feel this needs a response. On Aug 19, 2012, at 17:37 , Mark Andrews ma...@isc.org wrote: In message ddf607b5-415b-41e8-9222-eb549d3db...@semihuman.com, Chris Woodfield writes: What Patrick said. For large sites that offer services in multiple data = centers on multiple IPs that can individually fail at any time, 300 = seconds is actually a bit on the long end. Which is why the DNS supports multiple address records. Clients don't have to wait a minutes to fallover to a second address. One doesn't have to point all the addresses returned to the closest data center. One can get sub-second fail over in clients as HE code shows. I'm afraid I am not familiar with HE code, so perhaps I am being silly here. But I do not think returning multiple A records for multiple datacenters is as useful as lowering the TTL. Just a few reasons off the top of my head: * How do you guarantee the user goes to the closer location if you respond with multiple addresses? Forcing users to go to farther away datacenters half the time is likely a poor trade-off for the occasional TTL problem when a DC goes down. * How many applications are even aware multiple addresses were returned? * How do you guarantee sub-second failover when most apps will wait longer than one second to see if an address responds? Etc. And that doesn't begin to touch thing such as cache efficiency that affect companies like Google, CDNs, etc. As for the original problem. LRU replacement will keep hot items in the cache unless it is seriously undersized. This was covered well by others. -- TTFN, patrick
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
On Aug 20, 2012, at 5:24 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: But I do not think returning multiple A records for multiple datacenters is as useful as lowering the TTL. Some folks do this via various GSLB mechanisms which selectively respond with different records based on the assumed relative topological distance between the querying resolver and various server/service instantiations in different locations. --- Roland Dobbins rdobb...@arbor.net // http://www.arbornetworks.com Luck is the residue of opportunity and design. -- John Milton
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
On Aug 20, 2012, at 06:49 , Dobbins, Roland rdobb...@arbor.net wrote: On Aug 20, 2012, at 5:24 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: But I do not think returning multiple A records for multiple datacenters is as useful as lowering the TTL. Some folks do this via various GSLB mechanisms which selectively respond with different records based on the assumed relative topological distance between the querying resolver and various server/service instantiations in different locations. Some folks == more than half of all traffic on broadband modems these days. However, I think you missed a post or two in this thread. The original point was you need a low TTL to respond with a single A record or multiple A records which all point to the same datacenter in case that node / DC goes down. Mark replied saying you can respond with multiple A records pointing at multiple DCs, thereby allowing a much longer TTL. My question above is asking Mark how you guarantee the user/application selects the A record closest to them and only use the other A record when the closer one is unavailable. -- TTFN, patrick
Re: Finding Name Servers (not NS records) of domain name
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012, Matthew Palmer wrote: I religiously use http://squish.net/dnscheck/ the moment I suspect *any* sort of DNS hinkiness. Verbose, but *damn* if it doesn't hand me the answer practically every time. http://dnscheck.iis.se It's not as verbose and provides more direct diagnosis and recommendations on what needs fixing. Antonio Querubin e-mail: t...@lavanauts.org xmpp: antonioqueru...@gmail.com
Re: DNS caches that support partitioning ?
Raymond Dijkxhoorn raym...@prolocation.net wrote:
When you use forwarding it doesnt cache the entry. ('forward only'
option in bind for example).
That's incorrect. Try configuring a forwarded zone and observe the TTLs
you get in responses. The forward only option disables recursion but
not cacheing.
I talked with Paul Vixie about doing this internal inside bind but that was
not something they would be delighted to do (at least not now). If you could
define how large your cache pool was for certain objects that would fix it
also.
You might be able to hack it using a combination of forwarding zones,
views, max-cache-ttl, and attach-cache.
Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch d...@dotat.at http://dotat.at/
Forties, Cromarty: East, veering southeast, 4 or 5, occasionally 6 at first.
Rough, becoming slight or moderate. Showers, rain at first. Moderate or good,
occasionally poor at first.
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
Once upon a time, Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net said: * How many applications are even aware multiple addresses were returned? Most anything that supports IPv6 should handle this correctly, since getaddrinfo() will return a list of addresses to try. * How do you guarantee sub-second failover when most apps will wait longer than one second to see if an address responds? That's a bigger issue. Also, for web services, the application might wait, but the end-user usually won't (if the site doesn't come up in a second, they move on to the something else). -- Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
On Aug 20, 2012, at 08:25 , Tony Finch d...@dotat.at wrote: Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: On Aug 19, 2012, at 17:37 , Mark Andrews ma...@isc.org wrote: Which is why the DNS supports multiple address records. Clients don't have to wait a minutes to fallover to a second address. One doesn't have to point all the addresses returned to the closest data center. One can get sub-second fail over in clients as HE code shows. I'm afraid I am not familiar with HE code, so perhaps I am being silly here. Mark is referring to happy eyeballs: http://www.isc.org/community/blog/201101/how-to-connect-to-a-multi-homed-server-over-tcp Oh. Yep, I was being silly, thinking only of v4. (I'm sleep deprived of late - yes, more than usual.) Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, 99+% of traffic on the 'Net is still v4, as were the examples given. Even with HE, though, there is no (not yet a?) way in DNS to signal use this A record first, then that one if the first doesn't work / is slow / whatever. Any chance of getting MX-style weights for A records? :) Even then, it would not solve the original problem of low TTLs. Just as a simple example, when traffic ramps quickly, a provider may want to move some users off a node to balance traffic. With a long TTL, that's not really possible baring really bad hacks like DoS'ing some users to hope they use the next A record, which would lead to massive complaints. We could go on, but hopefully the point is clear that low TTLs are useful in many instances despite the ability to return multiple A records. -- TTFN, patrick
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
On Aug 20, 2012, at 08:47 , Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote: Once upon a time, Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net said: * How many applications are even aware multiple addresses were returned? Most anything that supports IPv6 should handle this correctly, since getaddrinfo() will return a list of addresses to try. Ah, the amazing new call which destroys any possibility of randomness or round robin or other ways of load balancing between A / records. Yes, all of us returning more than one A / record are hoping that gets widely deployed instantly. Or not. -- TTFN, patrick
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
On Aug 20, 2012, at 5:56 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: My question above is asking Mark how you guarantee the user/application selects the A record closest to them and only use the other A record when the closer one is unavailable. I understand - my point was that folks using a GSLB-type solution would generally include availability probing in the GSLB stack, so that a given instance won't be included in answers if it's locally unavailable (obviously, the GSLB can't know about all path elements between the querying resolver and the desired server/service). --- Roland Dobbins rdobb...@arbor.net // http://www.arbornetworks.com Luck is the residue of opportunity and design. -- John Milton
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: On Aug 20, 2012, at 08:47 , Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote: Most anything that supports IPv6 should handle this correctly, since getaddrinfo() will return a list of addresses to try. Ah, the amazing new call which destroys any possibility of randomness or round robin or other ways of load balancing between A / records. Yes, all of us returning more than one A / record are hoping that gets widely deployed instantly. Or not. The problem is RFC 3484 address selection; getaddrinfo is just the usual place this is implemented. I had believed that there was work in progress to fix this problem with the specs but it seems to have stalled. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-rfc3484-revise-05 Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch d...@dotat.at http://dotat.at/ Forties, Cromarty: East, veering southeast, 4 or 5, occasionally 6 at first. Rough, becoming slight or moderate. Showers, rain at first. Moderate or good, occasionally poor at first.
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
On 8/20/12 10:11 AM, Tony Finch wrote: Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: On Aug 20, 2012, at 08:47 , Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote: Most anything that supports IPv6 should handle this correctly, since getaddrinfo() will return a list of addresses to try. Ah, the amazing new call which destroys any possibility of randomness or round robin or other ways of load balancing between A / records. Yes, all of us returning more than one A / record are hoping that gets widely deployed instantly. Or not. The problem is RFC 3484 address selection; getaddrinfo is just the usual place this is implemented. I had believed that there was work in progress to fix this problem with the specs but it seems to have stalled. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-rfc3484-revise-05 Tony. It's in the RFC editor queue actually: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rfc3484bis/?include_text=1 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rfc3484bis/history/ --Shumon.
HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame
A while back I brought up a discussion about IPv6 and I mentioned having some HSRP issues. Not end of the world, just adjusting to IPv6. Several folks went offline to tell me that I should dump legacy HSRP and go to VRRP. While I never did find anyone who could explain how HSRP is a sunset feature in IOS, I did agree with a few folks to look into VRRP for IPv6. Well I'm just now getting around to it and there is literally nothing out there. I found a few older articles implying that it's not there yet and of course I found the usual docs about RAs and SLAC and whatnot. But nothing recent. So, for those who criticized me previously about using HSRP (or anyone else) instead of VRRP, do you have VRRP up and running on Cisco IOS-XE and if so how? Can anyone provide a link or a document explaining how this is accomplished? Sample configs? Usually if you can't find it on Google or CCO it's not promising. I'm also reaching out to our AS team for guidance on the subject. PS: I'm not taunting here. It's just that several folks made the effort to go offline with me and tell me how wrong I was with HSRP and that I need to progress to VRRP and I can't find a single doc on the subject now that I look. Were these folks mistaken or am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated. -- -Hammer- I was a normal American nerd -Jack Herer
Re: HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame
And two seconds after I hit send I find an updated article http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios-xml/ios/ipapp_fhrp/configuration/xe-3s/fhp-vrrp.html facepalm If you have more information I still welcome it. I'm going to go sit in the corner now... -Hammer- I was a normal American nerd -Jack Herer On 8/20/2012 9:36 AM, -Hammer- wrote: A while back I brought up a discussion about IPv6 and I mentioned having some HSRP issues. Not end of the world, just adjusting to IPv6. Several folks went offline to tell me that I should dump legacy HSRP and go to VRRP. While I never did find anyone who could explain how HSRP is a sunset feature in IOS, I did agree with a few folks to look into VRRP for IPv6. Well I'm just now getting around to it and there is literally nothing out there. I found a few older articles implying that it's not there yet and of course I found the usual docs about RAs and SLAC and whatnot. But nothing recent. So, for those who criticized me previously about using HSRP (or anyone else) instead of VRRP, do you have VRRP up and running on Cisco IOS-XE and if so how? Can anyone provide a link or a document explaining how this is accomplished? Sample configs? Usually if you can't find it on Google or CCO it's not promising. I'm also reaching out to our AS team for guidance on the subject. PS: I'm not taunting here. It's just that several folks made the effort to go offline with me and tell me how wrong I was with HSRP and that I need to progress to VRRP and I can't find a single doc on the subject now that I look. Were these folks mistaken or am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated.
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
On 20/08/2012 14:18, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: On Aug 20, 2012, at 08:47 , Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote: Most anything that supports IPv6 should handle this correctly, since getaddrinfo() will return a list of addresses to try. Ah, the amazing new call which destroys any possibility of randomness or round robin or other ways of load balancing between A / records. well, new as in about 16 years old. Yes, all of us returning more than one A / record are hoping that gets widely deployed instantly. Or not. inet_addr() is zomfg brain damaged, ipv4 only, non-thread-safe and needs to die horribly in a fire. getaddrinfo() puts at least the possibility of address selection into the hands of the developer which is going to be completely necessary for happy eyeballs / rfc3484bis / etc. Nick
Re: HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame
Correction. Still looking for something IPv6 specific. -Hammer- I was a normal American nerd -Jack Herer On 8/20/2012 9:39 AM, -Hammer- wrote: And two seconds after I hit send I find an updated article http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios-xml/ios/ipapp_fhrp/configuration/xe-3s/fhp-vrrp.html facepalm If you have more information I still welcome it. I'm going to go sit in the corner now... -Hammer- I was a normal American nerd -Jack Herer On 8/20/2012 9:36 AM, -Hammer- wrote: A while back I brought up a discussion about IPv6 and I mentioned having some HSRP issues. Not end of the world, just adjusting to IPv6. Several folks went offline to tell me that I should dump legacy HSRP and go to VRRP. While I never did find anyone who could explain how HSRP is a sunset feature in IOS, I did agree with a few folks to look into VRRP for IPv6. Well I'm just now getting around to it and there is literally nothing out there. I found a few older articles implying that it's not there yet and of course I found the usual docs about RAs and SLAC and whatnot. But nothing recent. So, for those who criticized me previously about using HSRP (or anyone else) instead of VRRP, do you have VRRP up and running on Cisco IOS-XE and if so how? Can anyone provide a link or a document explaining how this is accomplished? Sample configs? Usually if you can't find it on Google or CCO it's not promising. I'm also reaching out to our AS team for guidance on the subject. PS: I'm not taunting here. It's just that several folks made the effort to go offline with me and tell me how wrong I was with HSRP and that I need to progress to VRRP and I can't find a single doc on the subject now that I look. Were these folks mistaken or am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated.
Re: HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame
On 20/08/2012 15:41, -Hammer- wrote: Correction. Still looking for something IPv6 specific. Last time I looked, the support looked like this: XR: v4: HSRPv1, VRRP v6: VRRP IOS: v4: HSRPv1, HSRPv2, VRRP, GLBP v6: HSRPv2, GLBP You'll notice a certain lack of joined-up thinking here. Nick
Re: DNS caches that support partitioning ?
On Sat, 18 Aug 2012, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: IMHO, if Google losses a datacenter and all users are stuck waiting for a long TTL to run out, that is Very Bad. In fact, I would call even 2.5 minutes (average of 5 min TTL) Very Bad. I'm impressed they are comfortable with a 300 second TTL. Google is very aggressive about reducing user-visible latency, of which they cite DNS as a significant contributing factor. They may be choosing to strike a different balance of faster when everything is working correctly vs faster to recover when something breaks. -- Aaron
Re: HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame
Yeah I see the disconnect. I'm assuming that what I see is what I get. Which means I'm going to stick with HSRP. If our AS team gives me any good feedback that I can share I will do so. Thanks Nick. XE: v4: HSRPv1, HSRPv2, VRRPv6: HSRPv2 Reflections of a madman... Why is parity such a difficult task? -Hammer- I was a normal American nerd -Jack Herer On 8/20/2012 9:51 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote: On 20/08/2012 15:41, -Hammer- wrote: Correction. Still looking for something IPv6 specific. Last time I looked, the support looked like this: XR: v4: HSRPv1, VRRP v6: VRRP IOS: v4: HSRPv1, HSRPv2, VRRP, GLBP v6: HSRPv2, GLBP You'll notice a certain lack of joined-up thinking here. Nick
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
Shumon Huque shu...@upenn.edu wrote: On 8/20/12 10:11 AM, Tony Finch wrote: The problem is RFC 3484 address selection; getaddrinfo is just the usual place this is implemented. I had believed that there was work in progress to fix this problem with the specs but it seems to have stalled. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-rfc3484-revise-05 It's in the RFC editor queue actually: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rfc3484bis/?include_text=1 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rfc3484bis/history/ Excellent :-) Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch d...@dotat.at http://dotat.at/ Forties, Cromarty: East, veering southeast, 4 or 5, occasionally 6 at first. Rough, becoming slight or moderate. Showers, rain at first. Moderate or good, occasionally poor at first.
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
On 20 Aug 2012, at 16:39, Tony Finch d...@dotat.at wrote: Shumon Huque shu...@upenn.edu wrote: On 8/20/12 10:11 AM, Tony Finch wrote: The problem is RFC 3484 address selection; getaddrinfo is just the usual place this is implemented. I had believed that there was work in progress to fix this problem with the specs but it seems to have stalled. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-rfc3484-revise-05 It's in the RFC editor queue actually: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rfc3484bis/?include_text=1 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rfc3484bis/history/ Excellent :-) Tony. I'll ask the IETF admins to link -revise to the bis draft so this continuation is clearer in the tools pages. Tim
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
On Aug 20, 2012, at 10:07 , Dobbins, Roland rdobb...@arbor.net wrote: On Aug 20, 2012, at 5:56 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: My question above is asking Mark how you guarantee the user/application selects the A record closest to them and only use the other A record when the closer one is unavailable. I understand - my point was that folks using a GSLB-type solution would generally include availability probing in the GSLB stack, so that a given instance won't be included in answers if it's locally unavailable How does that allow for a long TTL? If you set a 3600 second TTL when the DC is up, and the DC goes down 2 seconds later, what do you do? (obviously, the GSLB can't know about all path elements between the querying resolver and the desired server/service). Says who? :) -- TTFN, patrick
Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
Our neighborhood lost phone service when the pedestal at the end of the road was annihilated by a flail mowera WEEK AGO. The repair - orange plastic bag over the entrails of the pedestal. Yay Verizon - I finally understand why I send them so much money - stylish orange bags! On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Eric Wieling ewiel...@nyigc.com wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ -- Glen Wiley A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ If I didn't see the loops of electrical tape holding the whole works together I'd say that was a squirrel nest. The two aerial runs that appear to be using each other to turn a corner (right above the plastic-and-electrical-tape mess in the top picture) is an especially nice and creative touch. I sincerely hope the smaller of the two aerials is not a lashing wire. jmwell *there's* your problems
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ Shredded garbage bag(s) and pink bubble wrap...and some kind of tape. As if that wasn't scary enough, WTF is going on below that on the pole? It looks like some kind of cross connect box, but it's inside out and exploded...or maybe just missing a cover and someone pulled all the cross connects out to trace or make room to work. -- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-) On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
Justin M. Streiner wrote: On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ If I didn't see the loops of electrical tape holding the whole works together I'd say that was a squirrel nest. The two aerial runs that appear to be using each other to turn a corner (right above the plastic-and-electrical-tape mess in the top picture) is an especially nice and creative touch. I sincerely hope the smaller of the two aerials is not a lashing wire. jmwell *there's* your problems Hey looks totally professional to me. After all, black tape is the network engineer's equivalent of duck tape, and, as we all know, duck tape holds the universe together! -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible! On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman hhoff...@ip-solutions.net wrote: What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-) On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Joel Esler wrote: Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible! Agreed, but Verizon and whoever happens to be on that pole are pretty unlikely to do that unless pushed. The NY Public Service Commission might find the state of what's on that pole interesting, particularly with supporting documentation (trouble history, pole number/location, etc). jms On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman hhoff...@ip-solutions.net wrote: What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-) On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
You misunderstand the engineering that went into this project. 1. The black garbage bag was the original install. It has served past the self life and has become outmoded. You can clearly see the wind whipped ends that are to give it a nice cosmetic appeal. The plastic is breaking down and in dire need of replacing anyway, it is old. THAT is why the failure returned. I suspect if there is a 12 month history, you will see a similar issue in the past. 2. The pink, NON-ESD bubble wrap is an UPGRADE. It is approved for electronics use. They spent some budget on this! WAY more than the $.23 black bag. Not as stylish though. There was clear and concise thought that went into this ahem repair. THAT is what scares me more than anything. d On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? Maybe it just needs a heavier garbage bag. That's horrible! We had a pedestal around here that was covered, I want to say for years, though it might have been just a year or two, with a work tent. If you have never seen one: http://store.mohawkltd.com/Pelsue-FTTH-Installer-Tent-Shelter/P3072_868/ I particularly love years of service in the field. I'm guessing they don't mean *continuous* service. By the time it was eventually cleared out, it had collapsed and was somewhat ripped, etc. Totally unrelated: Some of the local DSL copper becomes really unreliable in spring and when it rains. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
+1 for agreeing needs to be restrung. This made me laugh! Nice humor for the day. But you know someone should call the utility company that owns the pole and report it. Also file a complaint with your ROW division and corporation commission. -Original Message- From: Joel Esler [mailto:joel.es...@me.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 2:34 PM To: Harry Hoffman Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible! On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman hhoff...@ip-solutions.net wrote: What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-) On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
Unfortunately, the lines are being resold by a CLEC. My understanding is the PUC/PSC doesn't take complaints from CLECs and, since the customer is customer of the CLEC, any complaints which are filed go against the CLEC, not Verizon. -Original Message- From: Justin M. Streiner [mailto:strei...@cluebyfour.org] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:41 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Joel Esler wrote: Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible! Agreed, but Verizon and whoever happens to be on that pole are pretty unlikely to do that unless pushed. The NY Public Service Commission might find the state of what's on that pole interesting, particularly with supporting documentation (trouble history, pole number/location, etc). jms On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman hhoff...@ip-solutions.net wrote: What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-) On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
Maybe you can hope for a wind storm to take down the pole or someone to crash into it, then they'll surely have to fix it. -Mike -Original Message- From: Eric Wieling [mailto:ewiel...@nyigc.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:57 PM To: Justin M. Streiner; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags Unfortunately, the lines are being resold by a CLEC. My understanding is the PUC/PSC doesn't take complaints from CLECs and, since the customer is customer of the CLEC, any complaints which are filed go against the CLEC, not Verizon. -Original Message- From: Justin M. Streiner [mailto:strei...@cluebyfour.org] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:41 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Joel Esler wrote: Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible! Agreed, but Verizon and whoever happens to be on that pole are pretty unlikely to do that unless pushed. The NY Public Service Commission might find the state of what's on that pole interesting, particularly with supporting documentation (trouble history, pole number/location, etc). jms On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman hhoff...@ip-solutions.net wrote: What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-) On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
Re: HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame
Yeah I see the disconnect. I'm assuming that what I see is what I get. Which means I'm going to stick with HSRP. If our AS team gives me any good feedback that I can share I will do so. Thanks Nick. XE: v4: HSRPv1, HSRPv2, VRRPv6: HSRPv2 Not particularly relevant to the original question - however, I'd like to mention that we've been using IPv6 VRRP on our Juniper routers for well over a year. No particular problems so far. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no
Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
Given the recent VZ thread, I thought I'd show why my new house has crap Internet. The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. http://ianai.smugmug.com/BostonPix/2012/Comcast-Atherton-Street These pedestals have looked like this for months apparently. I called the 800 # and complained, they rolled a truck. The guy didn't even come in my house, just gave me his supervisor's number and said that he's a home tech, the outside plant guys are the problem and he can't fix it. A second guy rolled up while we were chatting and told me he had a call around the block for the same thing. They've been taking complaints about this for months and are as tired of it as we are. I assured them I was more tired of it, given he was getting paid while I was paying, but I understood their situation. Of course, since the other broadband option at my house is 1 Mbps Verizon DSL, I don't have much leverage. :( -- TTFN, patrick P.S. Worst part is ATT sux there too, so I have a picocell - which runs over the Comcast cable mode
RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
Quality Union work! -Original Message- From: Miles Fidelman [mailto:mfidel...@meetinghouse.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:29 PM Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags Justin M. Streiner wrote: On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ If I didn't see the loops of electrical tape holding the whole works together I'd say that was a squirrel nest. The two aerial runs that appear to be using each other to turn a corner (right above the plastic-and-electrical-tape mess in the top picture) is an especially nice and creative touch. I sincerely hope the smaller of the two aerials is not a lashing wire. jmwell *there's* your problems Hey looks totally professional to me. After all, black tape is the network engineer's equivalent of duck tape, and, as we all know, duck tape holds the universe together! -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra
RE: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
I'm baffled. This is horrible! What about standards? -Original Message- From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patr...@ianai.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:12 PM To: NANOG list Subject: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies Given the recent VZ thread, I thought I'd show why my new house has crap Internet. The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. http://ianai.smugmug.com/BostonPix/2012/Comcast-Atherton-Street These pedestals have looked like this for months apparently. I called the 800 # and complained, they rolled a truck. The guy didn't even come in my house, just gave me his supervisor's number and said that he's a home tech, the outside plant guys are the problem and he can't fix it. A second guy rolled up while we were chatting and told me he had a call around the block for the same thing. They've been taking complaints about this for months and are as tired of it as we are. I assured them I was more tired of it, given he was getting paid while I was paying, but I understood their situation. Of course, since the other broadband option at my house is 1 Mbps Verizon DSL, I don't have much leverage. :( -- TTFN, patrick P.S. Worst part is ATT sux there too, so I have a picocell - which runs over the Comcast cable mode
Re: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
In a message written on Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 04:12:22PM -0400, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. Why is that cable still in place? That's a hint, not really a question. :) -- Leo Bicknell - bickn...@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ pgpsA17Zthpfo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
On 12-08-20 04:25 PM, Leo Bicknell wrote: In a message written on Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 04:12:22PM -0400, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. Why is that cable still in place? That's a hint, not really a question. :) That cable definitely needs to be removed in the interest of... uhh... community safety. Yeah, that's it. You're worried about the puppies and children hurting themselves. ;) (Double-mega-extra-bonus points if you convince your local city services to do it!) - Pete
Re: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
On Aug 20, 2012, at 16:25 , Leo Bicknell bickn...@ufp.org wrote: In a message written on Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 04:12:22PM -0400, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. Why is that cable still in place? That's a hint, not really a question. :) Because VZ LTE, while nice in general, is not good enough for Jezzibell to use all day for a week. :) -- TTFN, patrick
Re: HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame
VRRP is to HSRP what 802.1q is to ISL... I highly recommend using VRRP instead of HSRP because: 1. It is a more robust protocol 2. It is vendor agnostic 3. Being vendor agnostic it is more likely to have a continuing future. Does anyone still use ISL? Owen On Aug 20, 2012, at 13:10 , sth...@nethelp.no wrote: Yeah I see the disconnect. I'm assuming that what I see is what I get. Which means I'm going to stick with HSRP. If our AS team gives me any good feedback that I can share I will do so. Thanks Nick. XE: v4: HSRPv1, HSRPv2, VRRPv6: HSRPv2 Not particularly relevant to the original question - however, I'd like to mention that we've been using IPv6 VRRP on our Juniper routers for well over a year. No particular problems so far. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
On 8/20/2012 12:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ I see Verizon is continuing to do quality work. Reminds me of some work they did by my parent's house once. Instead of splicing and burying a cable after fixing it, they just left it laying out in the open. But the tech did take the time to put bags over the splice cases he used.
Re: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
Hi Patrick, Yikes. We can work together on getting this sorted. Will give you details directly. Cheers, -ren On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 4:12 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: Given the recent VZ thread, I thought I'd show why my new house has crap Internet. The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. http://ianai.smugmug.com/BostonPix/2012/Comcast-Atherton-Street These pedestals have looked like this for months apparently. I called the 800 # and complained, they rolled a truck. The guy didn't even come in my house, just gave me his supervisor's number and said that he's a home tech, the outside plant guys are the problem and he can't fix it. A second guy rolled up while we were chatting and told me he had a call around the block for the same thing. They've been taking complaints about this for months and are as tired of it as we are. I assured them I was more tired of it, given he was getting paid while I was paying, but I understood their situation. Of course, since the other broadband option at my house is 1 Mbps Verizon DSL, I don't have much leverage. :( -- TTFN, patrick P.S. Worst part is ATT sux there too, so I have a picocell - which runs over the Comcast cable mode
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
On 20 August 2012 20:41, Joe Greco jgr...@ns.sol.net wrote: We had a pedestal around here that was covered, I want to say for years, though it might have been just a year or two, with a work tent. If you have never seen one: http://store.mohawkltd.com/Pelsue-FTTH-Installer-Tent-Shelter/P3072_868/ Love the fact this tent is rated for FTTH work. I assume they sell them as upgrades for any telco still using inferior pre-FTTH copper-cable rated tents. Aled
Comcast 1, Verizon 0 [was: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies]
Comcast has already contacted me to fix this up. -- TTFN, patrick On Aug 20, 2012, at 16:12 , Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: Given the recent VZ thread, I thought I'd show why my new house has crap Internet. The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. http://ianai.smugmug.com/BostonPix/2012/Comcast-Atherton-Street These pedestals have looked like this for months apparently. I called the 800 # and complained, they rolled a truck. The guy didn't even come in my house, just gave me his supervisor's number and said that he's a home tech, the outside plant guys are the problem and he can't fix it. A second guy rolled up while we were chatting and told me he had a call around the block for the same thing. They've been taking complaints about this for months and are as tired of it as we are. I assured them I was more tired of it, given he was getting paid while I was paying, but I understood their situation. Of course, since the other broadband option at my house is 1 Mbps Verizon DSL, I don't have much leverage. :( -- TTFN, patrick P.S. Worst part is ATT sux there too, so I have a picocell - which runs over the Comcast cable mode
Re: HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame
It's a good argument Owen. Unfortunately it looks like VRRP is not an available feature on the ASR for IPv6 FHRP. I'm still trying to confirm it but it is definitely not configurable in my version of code and if it's just coming out in a new release there is no way I'm jumping in with both feet. I'll have to stick with HSRP and LL addressing. If anyone knows different please let me know. Thanks PS: Yes, I still have some ISL. :( On legacy environments only though. I promise. Nothing new in years... -Hammer- I was a normal American nerd -Jack Herer On 8/20/2012 3:31 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: VRRP is to HSRP what 802.1q is to ISL... I highly recommend using VRRP instead of HSRP because: 1. It is a more robust protocol 2. It is vendor agnostic 3. Being vendor agnostic it is more likely to have a continuing future. Does anyone still use ISL? Owen On Aug 20, 2012, at 13:10 , sth...@nethelp.no wrote: Yeah I see the disconnect. I'm assuming that what I see is what I get. Which means I'm going to stick with HSRP. If our AS team gives me any good feedback that I can share I will do so. Thanks Nick. XE: v4: HSRPv1, HSRPv2, VRRPv6: HSRPv2 Not particularly relevant to the original question - however, I'd like to mention that we've been using IPv6 VRRP on our Juniper routers for well over a year. No particular problems so far. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no
Re: Comcast 1, Verizon 0 [was: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies]
Always good to know that *somebody* is listening! Cheers, Christoph On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: Comcast has already contacted me to fix this up. -- TTFN, patrick On Aug 20, 2012, at 16:12 , Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: Given the recent VZ thread, I thought I'd show why my new house has crap Internet. The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. http://ianai.smugmug.com/BostonPix/2012/Comcast-Atherton-Street These pedestals have looked like this for months apparently. I called the 800 # and complained, they rolled a truck. The guy didn't even come in my house, just gave me his supervisor's number and said that he's a home tech, the outside plant guys are the problem and he can't fix it. A second guy rolled up while we were chatting and told me he had a call around the block for the same thing. They've been taking complaints about this for months and are as tired of it as we are. I assured them I was more tired of it, given he was getting paid while I was paying, but I understood their situation. Of course, since the other broadband option at my house is 1 Mbps Verizon DSL, I don't have much leverage. :( -- TTFN, patrick P.S. Worst part is ATT sux there too, so I have a picocell - which runs over the Comcast cable mode
Re: HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame
That's good to know. Seriously. I can point that out to the Cisco guys... :) -Hammer- I was a normal American nerd -Jack Herer On 8/20/2012 3:10 PM, sth...@nethelp.no wrote: Yeah I see the disconnect. I'm assuming that what I see is what I get. Which means I'm going to stick with HSRP. If our AS team gives me any good feedback that I can share I will do so. Thanks Nick. XE: v4: HSRPv1, HSRPv2, VRRPv6: HSRPv2 Not particularly relevant to the original question - however, I'd like to mention that we've been using IPv6 VRRP on our Juniper routers for well over a year. No particular problems so far. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no
Re: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull = new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if = you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on = either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same = stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied = to trees with rope. In Comcast's defense, sometimes the guys who do inside work will try to fix things to Make Customers Happy, but they typically don't have access to the supplies, shovels, and Ditch Witches to bury the cable properly. I'm not saying it's not a problem, but I'm saying maybe give the guys who did it a little break. It's a systemic problem most here are familiar with that you're never able to reach the right party, and that might not get any better if you are the Comcast tech who needs an outside plant crew to fix something. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
RE: Comcast 1, Verizon 0 [was: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies]
Whatever you do, no one let on that people can get issues like this fixed by posting to NANOG... this list will be flooded in a matter of hours... Davis Beeman -Original Message- From: Christoph Blecker [mailto:cblec...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 14:27 To: Patrick W. Gilmore Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Comcast 1, Verizon 0 [was: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies] Always good to know that *somebody* is listening! Cheers, Christoph On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: Comcast has already contacted me to fix this up. -- TTFN, patrick On Aug 20, 2012, at 16:12 , Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: Given the recent VZ thread, I thought I'd show why my new house has crap Internet. The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. http://ianai.smugmug.com/BostonPix/2012/Comcast-Atherton-Street These pedestals have looked like this for months apparently. I called the 800 # and complained, they rolled a truck. The guy didn't even come in my house, just gave me his supervisor's number and said that he's a home tech, the outside plant guys are the problem and he can't fix it. A second guy rolled up while we were chatting and told me he had a call around the block for the same thing. They've been taking complaints about this for months and are as tired of it as we are. I assured them I was more tired of it, given he was getting paid while I was paying, but I understood their situation. Of course, since the other broadband option at my house is 1 Mbps Verizon DSL, I don't have much leverage. :( -- TTFN, patrick P.S. Worst part is ATT sux there too, so I have a picocell - which runs over the Comcast cable mode
Re: HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame
--- On Mon, 8/20/12, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: From: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com Subject: Re: HSRP vs VRRP for IPv6 on IOS-XE - rekindling an old flame To: sth...@nethelp.no Cc: nanog@nanog.org Date: Monday, August 20, 2012, 1:31 PM VRRP is to HSRP what 802.1q is to ISL... I highly recommend using VRRP instead of HSRP because: 1. It is a more robust protocol 2. It is vendor agnostic 3. Being vendor agnostic it is more likely to have a continuing future. Does anyone still use ISL? Owen ...rhetorical question perhaps; historically, interesting: ISL: I last used in 2005 CET: 2000 ./Randy
Re: Comcast 1, Verizon 0 [was: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies]
Perhaps this time they can afford to run you some real, honest-to-god Helvetica cable rather than Arial cable as you noted below. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arial#Criticism You're definitely a bigger geek than I am though for griping about the font they used for the writing on your drop cable. Just sayin. -r Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net writes: Comcast has already contacted me to fix this up. -- TTFN, patrick On Aug 20, 2012, at 16:12 , Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: Given the recent VZ thread, I thought I'd show why my new house has crap Internet. The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. http://ianai.smugmug.com/BostonPix/2012/Comcast-Atherton-Street These pedestals have looked like this for months apparently. I called the 800 # and complained, they rolled a truck. The guy didn't even come in my house, just gave me his supervisor's number and said that he's a home tech, the outside plant guys are the problem and he can't fix it. A second guy rolled up while we were chatting and told me he had a call around the block for the same thing. They've been taking complaints about this for months and are as tired of it as we are. I assured them I was more tired of it, given he was getting paid while I was paying, but I understood their situation. Of course, since the other broadband option at my house is 1 Mbps Verizon DSL, I don't have much leverage. :( -- TTFN, patrick P.S. Worst part is ATT sux there too, so I have a picocell - which runs over the Comcast cable mode
Re: Comcast 1, Verizon 0 [was: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies]
Lucky that any form of publicity works! This lady http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/11/AR2005081102101.html got her OSP cable issue printed in the Washington Post. And, as I recall the follow-up article, even that did not result in a prompt repair of her front-yard garrote. It seems unlikely to get better. Leno just took a pay cut. We can only imagine the cost-cutting pressures being applied to the OSP repair department. On 8/20/2012 3:03 PM, Beeman, Davis wrote: Whatever you do, no one let on that people can get issues like this fixed by posting to NANOG... this list will be flooded in a matter of hours... Davis Beeman -Original Message- From: Christoph Blecker [mailto:cblec...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 14:27 To: Patrick W. Gilmore Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Comcast 1, Verizon 0 [was: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies] Always good to know that *somebody* is listening! Cheers, Christoph On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: Comcast has already contacted me to fix this up. -- TTFN, patrick On Aug 20, 2012, at 16:12 , Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net wrote: Given the recent VZ thread, I thought I'd show why my new house has crap Internet. The story: A piece of underground cable went bad. The techs didn't pull new underground cable. They decided it was better to do it arial (if you can call 2 feet arial). They took apart the two pedestals on either side of the break and ran a new strand of RG6 (yes, the same stuff you use inside your home, not the outside-plant rated stuff) tied to trees with rope. http://ianai.smugmug.com/BostonPix/2012/Comcast-Atherton-Street These pedestals have looked like this for months apparently. I called the 800 # and complained, they rolled a truck. The guy didn't even come in my house, just gave me his supervisor's number and said that he's a home tech, the outside plant guys are the problem and he can't fix it. A second guy rolled up while we were chatting and told me he had a call around the block for the same thing. They've been taking complaints about this for months and are as tired of it as we are. I assured them I was more tired of it, given he was getting paid while I was paying, but I understood their situation. Of course, since the other broadband option at my house is 1 Mbps Verizon DSL, I don't have much leverage. :( -- TTFN, patrick P.S. Worst part is ATT sux there too, so I have a picocell - which runs over the Comcast cable mode
Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think it is bad techs rather than a temporary, keep it working until you can do it right. That said, I've seen more jury-rigging in my time than I care to think about. Nothing like a temporary fix that is still in place five years later. On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 03:33:59PM -0400, Joel Esler wrote: Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible! On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman hhoff...@ip-solutions.net wrote: What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-) On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ --- Wayne Bouchard w...@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Re: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
on bainbridge, i replaced centurystink dsl (756k/256k for $65/mo) with comcast (20m/4m for $50/mo). the installer was a knarly old dog, and damned competent. he cleaned up old cable on the pole and where it went underground to the house. he cleaned up the box and replaced in-house junctions. then he accidentally left 8m of coax to get from the in-wall cable outlet to my 'puter area, and rode off in his white van into the sunset. now if i could get that kind of professionalism from twt in hawaii ... randy
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
In message 0d919d57-bda0-4fda-873d-3dc0cd574...@ianai.net, Patrick W. Gilmore writes: On Aug 20, 2012, at 06:49 , Dobbins, Roland rdobb...@arbor.net = wrote: On Aug 20, 2012, at 5:24 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: =20 But I do not think returning multiple A records for multiple = datacenters is as useful as lowering the TTL. =20 Some folks do this via various GSLB mechanisms which selectively = respond with different records based on the assumed relative topological = distance between the querying resolver and various server/service = instantiations in different locations. Some folks =3D=3D more than half of all traffic on broadband modems = these days. However, I think you missed a post or two in this thread. The original point was you need a low TTL to respond with a single A = record or multiple A records which all point to the same datacenter in = case that node / DC goes down. Mark replied saying you can respond with = multiple A records pointing at multiple DCs, thereby allowing a much = longer TTL. My question above is asking Mark how you guarantee the user/application = selects the A record closest to them and only use the other A record = when the closer one is unavailable. You can't but a GSLB also can't know if the path from the client to the DC selected by the GSLB will work. There is a high probability that it will but no certainty. By returning addresses to multiple DC's you increase the probability that a client will be able to connect in the presence of network errors not visible to the GSLB control algorithms. If you want to add weights etc. then you need to use something like SRV to pass this information to the client. The GSLB can then adjust these. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org
Re: Return two locations or low TTL [was: DNS caches that support partitioning ?]
In message 20120820124734.ga14...@hiwaay.net, Chris Adams writes: Once upon a time, Patrick W. Gilmore patr...@ianai.net said: * How many applications are even aware multiple addresses were returned? Most anything that supports IPv6 should handle this correctly, since getaddrinfo() will return a list of addresses to try. * How do you guarantee sub-second failover when most apps will wait longer than one second to see if an address responds? That's a bigger issue. Also, for web services, the application might wait, but the end-user usually won't (if the site doesn't come up in a second, they move on to the something else). You file RFE / bug reports against the clients for having crappy fail over behaviour. It isn't hard to write TCP based code that falls over to the next available server. You don't have to wait for connect to fail before you attempt to connect to the next address. You just use a smarter connect loop. UDP code is a little harder as the work needs to more spread though the code than just replacing the dumb connect loop with a smart connect loop. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org
Re: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
Oh to have choices... I'm still hanging on the end of a dedicated T1 and paying through the nose. I'm nearly convinced that the monthly income from my circuit has prevented Qwest, and now Century Link from building out DSL. Greg On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: on bainbridge, i replaced centurystink dsl (756k/256k for $65/mo) with comcast (20m/4m for $50/mo). the installer was a knarly old dog, and damned competent. he cleaned up old cable on the pole and where it went underground to the house. he cleaned up the box and replaced in-house junctions. then he accidentally left 8m of coax to get from the in-wall cable outlet to my 'puter area, and rode off in his white van into the sunset. now if i could get that kind of professionalism from twt in hawaii ... randy
[NANOG-announce] Call for Board Member Nominations for 2012 Elections - August 20 to October 1, 2012
*Dear NANOGers, Hope you are enjoying this great Summer. Following our August 4 posting ‘‘Announcing the October 2012 NANOG Elections’ which provided a preview into our election process, we are now pleased to open the Call for Board Member Nominations for the three vacant positions on the Board of Directors. The nomination period starts August 20 and closes October 1, 2012 at 23:59 Pacific Standard Time. If you are nominating another person, please send that person's name and email address to nominati...@nanog.org and we will contact them to acknowledge their willingness to stand and will ask them to submit their Declaration of Candidacy Form (Doc)http://www.nanog.org/governance/elections/2012elections/2012_Declaration_of_Candidacy.docx. If you are nominating yourself, please submit your Declaration of Candidacy Form (Doc)http://www.nanog.org/governance/elections/2012elections/2012_Declaration_of_Candidacy.docxto nominati...@nanog.org. Below is the summary of the role and a detailed description may be consulted at http://www.nanog.org/governance/BOD_Responsibilities.pdf Position: Board Member Time commitment: Five hours per week (meetings, preparation, consultation) for Members or Eight hours per week (meetings, preparation, consultation) for Officers (Chair, Vice Chair, Secretary, Treasurer). Term:Two years. Maximum of two consecutive terms. Accountability The Board of Directors are collectively accountable to the community, sponsors and other stakeholders. They are accountable for NANOG’s performance in relation to its mission and strategic objectives and for the effective stewardship of financial and human resources. Authority Individual board members have no authority to approve actions by NANOG, to direct staff, or to speak on behalf for NANOG, unless given such authority by the board. Responsibility Board members are responsible for acting in the best long-term interests of the organization and its community and will bring to the task of informed decision-making, a broad knowledge and an inclusive perspective. General Duties Every member of the Board of Directors is expected to do the following: · Be a NANOG member in good standing · Prepare for and attend board meetings every fortnight · Work as a team member and support board decisions · Participate in the review of NANOG’s mission and objectives and the development of a strategic plan · Monitor the performance of the organization in relation to objectives and core values · Approve the budget and monitor financial performance in relation to it · Abide by the by-laws, code of conduct and other policies that apply to the board · Establish, review and monitor policies that guide core operational practices (eg. financial management, human resource management) · Participate in hiring and releasing the Executive Director · Participate in the evaluation of the Executive Director · Participate in the recruitment of new board members · Participate in the evaluation of the board itself · Participate in committee work (liaison) · Appoint Standing committees members · Appoint Ad-Hoc committees members. · Attend two out of every three NANOG conferences · Keep informed about community issues relevant to the mission and objectives of NANOG Qualifications The following are considered key job qualifications: · Knowledge of the community ·Experience in or willingness to participate in the governance of a non-profit organization ·Demonstrated aptitudes for financial management ·Leadership, outreach and communication skills · Commitment to organization’s mission and strategic directions · A commitment of time · Consensus organizing and openness to learning Removal of a Board Member A Board of Directors member who misses three or more meetings in a row and who does not attend any Board of Directors meetings for three months may be removed. The Board of Directors is an active and engaged component of NANOG. As NANOG continues to evolve, our Board and our Committees will continue to play an increasingly important role in our success. We thank you in advance for becoming NANOG members and taking an active part in our governance. Best regards Sylvie* -- Sylvie LaPerriere NANOG Board Chair - www.nanog.org ___ NANOG-announce mailing list nanog-annou...@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-announce
