Re: maximum ipv4 bgp prefix length of /24 ?

[Crist Clark]

Been resisting adding to this thread...

But if the assumption is that networks will always eventually totally
deaggregate to the maximum, we're screwed. Routing IPv4 /32s would be
nothing. The current practice of accepting /48s could swell to about 2^(48
- 3) = 2^45 = 35184372088832.

What will prevent unrestricted growth of the IPv6 table if operators push
everything out to /48 "to counter hijacks" or other misguided reasons?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 8:14 AM Owen DeLong via NANOG 
wrote:

> If you maximally disaggregate to /24, you end up with about 12M fib
> entries. At /25 this doubles and you double it again for every bit you move
> right.
>
> At /24, we are on borrowed time without walking right. Also, the CPU in
> most routers won’t handle the churn of a 10M prefix RIB.
>
> Owen
>
>
> > On Oct 4, 2023, at 03:15, Mark Tinka  wrote:
> >
> > 
> >
> >> On 10/4/23 12:11, Musa Stephen Honlue wrote:
> >>
> >> Which one is easier,
> >>
> >> 1. Convincing the tens of thousands of network operators and equipment
> vendors to modify configs and code to accept more specifics than /24, or
> >
> > Equipment vendors can already support 10 million entries in FIB. They
> just ask for a little bit of cash for it.
> >
> > Mark.
>
>
>

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Jay R. Ashworth]

- Original Message -
> From: "Sean Donelan" 

> On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, William Herrin wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 11:21 AM Sabri Berisha  wrote:
>>> Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what
>>> happened in Hawaii.
>>
>> For the national alert you can't. That's intentional.
>>
>> Although for some reason my silenced phone made no noise. I got the
>> alert, it popped up on the screen, but no noise.
> 
> If you don't want any interruptions, you can set your phone to "Airplane
> Mode." Airplane Mode disables reception of all Wireless Emergency Alerts
> for as long as the phone stays in Airplane Mode.

And it's even possible, on most phones I have used, to turn Airplane mode on,
and then *turn wifi back on* -- that would get you most functionality, while
still precluding WEA/CMAS alerts.

I think I've got that right, don't I, Sean?

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth  Baylink   j...@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think   RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates   http://www.bcp38.info  2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA  BCP38: Ask For It By Name!   +1 727 647 1274

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, William Herrin wrote:

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 11:21 AM Sabri Berisha  wrote:

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
happened in Hawaii.


For the national alert you can't. That's intentional.

Although for some reason my silenced phone made no noise. I got the
alert, it popped up on the screen, but no noise.



If you don't want any interruptions, you can set your phone to "Airplane 
Mode." Airplane Mode disables reception of all Wireless Emergency Alerts 
for as long as the phone stays in Airplane Mode.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Tom Beecher]

>
> This
> whole test was a display of poor engineering and disrespect for people's
> first amendment rights.
>

You are certainly free to criticize the  system or the implementation, but
nothing about this is a First Amendment issue. Just don't.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 7:16 PM Sabri Berisha  wrote:

> - On Oct 4, 2023, at 1:02 PM, Chris Adams c...@cmadams.net wrote:
>
> > Once upon a time, Grant Taylor  said:
> >> I don't know if today's test is the same thing or not, but I
> >> remember in the last X years where there was a presidential test of
> >> the EAS and there was supposedly no way to disable it short of
> >> turning your device off.
> >
> > IIRC it is mandated that the vendors don't allow you to turn off the
> > Presidential Alert class.
>
> If this is true, and I will take your word for it, that is outrageous.
>
> My wife is a teacher who works with special needs kids, and her phone
> went of twice (the second time 15 minutes after the first). This was
> very disruptive as you can imagine.
>
> Obviously, I made sure all of the emergency notifications were set to
> OFF on her phone. If setting this nonsense to OFF is not working, why
> even have the menu option?
>
> The government has no right to disrupt the day of 350 million people,
> however much the self-appointed emergency communication "professionals"
> like to think so.
>
> Furthermore, it's simply unnecessary. It is incredibly easy to add a
> one-bit flag indicating whether or not it's a test to such alerts. This
> whole test was a display of poor engineering and disrespect for people's
> first amendment rights.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sabri
>

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sabri Berisha]

- On Oct 4, 2023, at 1:02 PM, Chris Adams c...@cmadams.net wrote:

> Once upon a time, Grant Taylor  said:
>> I don't know if today's test is the same thing or not, but I
>> remember in the last X years where there was a presidential test of
>> the EAS and there was supposedly no way to disable it short of
>> turning your device off.
> 
> IIRC it is mandated that the vendors don't allow you to turn off the
> Presidential Alert class.

If this is true, and I will take your word for it, that is outrageous.

My wife is a teacher who works with special needs kids, and her phone
went of twice (the second time 15 minutes after the first). This was
very disruptive as you can imagine. 

Obviously, I made sure all of the emergency notifications were set to
OFF on her phone. If setting this nonsense to OFF is not working, why
even have the menu option?

The government has no right to disrupt the day of 350 million people,
however much the self-appointed emergency communication "professionals"
like to think so.

Furthermore, it's simply unnecessary. It is incredibly easy to add a 
one-bit flag indicating whether or not it's a test to such alerts. This
whole test was a display of poor engineering and disrespect for people's
first amendment rights.

Thanks,

Sabri

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[William Herrin]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 11:21 AM Sabri Berisha  wrote:
> Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
> happened in Hawaii.

For the national alert you can't. That's intentional.

Although for some reason my silenced phone made no noise. I got the
alert, it popped up on the screen, but no noise.

Regards,
Bill Herrin



-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Matthew Petach wrote:

Ah, I didn't realize that was locally set on the device--I thought that was
part of the message header in the message being sent out.

Thanks for the clarification.  ^_^


Yep.  That's why countries with a Prime Minister (or monarch or both) were 
complaining.  Canada complained politely, but complained.  :-)


The Cell Broadcast channel is very bit-limited.  No room for extra stuff. 
User interface presentation layer wrapper stuff is built into the handset.


Other countries couldn't force the change themselves. Needed the U.S. to 
stop insisting on "Presidential Alert" label and the mobile phone OS 
vendors to update their global software releases.  Mobile device 
manufactures would translate "Presidential Alert" into other languages, 
but wouldn't change it based on a country's political system outside of 
the U.S.


Global standards are great.  Tourist mobile phones work (and get emergency 
alerts) wherever governments send them, without needing funky Apps.  Fun 
at the Olympics with visitors from around the world getting an alert for 
the first time. Yes, I know some countries still insist on local funky 
Apps. But the U.S. insistance on its way is a pain in the a**.



Now need global mobile device manufactures to update their OS releases, 
everyone to buy new handsets or add it to the carrier localization 
configuration.


Apple's forced iOS migrations upset some people, but it does keep its 
ecosystem up to date.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Matthew Petach]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 12:37 PM Sean Donelan  wrote:

> On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Matthew Petach wrote:
> > Well, today's alert still showed up as "Presidential Alert", so I guess
> the
> > US hasn't quite finished changing over yet.  ^_^;
> > (Samsung Galaxy phone)
>
> Yeah, Samsung is bad about releasing software updates for its older (a few
> months old) products.
>
> Think about out-of-date security patches :-) if Samsung doesn't update a
> text field.


Ah, I didn't realize that was locally set on the device--I thought that was
part of the message header in the message being sent out.

Thanks for the clarification.  ^_^

Matt

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Ted Hatfield]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Chris Adams wrote:


Once upon a time, Grant Taylor  said:

Is this by chance a Specific Area Message Encoding (S.A.M.E.)
filtering / lack of data issue?


At least in my radio, I can't disable certain classes of things (the
high and immediate impact warnings like tornado).  I would expect the
Presidential Alert class to be the same, if it exists.


Can anyone corroborate NOAA weather radios not alerting?


My weather radio went off for the regular weekly test a couple of hours
before the national alert test, and did not go off for the national
alert.

--
Chris Adams 



Fema's press release goes into details.

https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20230803/fema-and-fcc-plan-nationwide-emergency-alert-test-oct-4-2023

Ted

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Grant Taylor  said:
> I don't know if today's test is the same thing or not, but I
> remember in the last X years where there was a presidential test of
> the EAS and there was supposedly no way to disable it short of
> turning your device off.

IIRC it is mandated that the vendors don't allow you to turn off the
Presidential Alert class.

However... if you have an Android device supported by LineageOS, you can
turn them all off.  Which I forgot to do, so an old no-SIM phone I use
for some random things went off (curiously, it didn't go off until 8
minutes after my "regular" phone, and then only showed the Spanish
version).

-- 
Chris Adams 

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Grant Taylor  said:
> Is this by chance a Specific Area Message Encoding (S.A.M.E.)
> filtering / lack of data issue?

At least in my radio, I can't disable certain classes of things (the
high and immediate impact warnings like tornado).  I would expect the
Presidential Alert class to be the same, if it exists.

> Can anyone corroborate NOAA weather radios not alerting?

My weather radio went off for the regular weekly test a couple of hours
before the national alert test, and did not go off for the national
alert.

-- 
Chris Adams 

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Harald Koch]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023, at 15:09, Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote:
>
> I don't know if today's test is the same thing or not, but I remember in 
> the last X years where there was a presidential test of the EAS and 
> there was supposedly no way to disable it short of turning your device off.
>
> My understanding is that -- let's go with -- lesser priority sources can 
> be silenced, but sufficiently high priority can't be.  If the device is 
> on, it's going to make noise.

It must be nice to live in a country that uses the priorities! Canada's Alert 
Ready decided that people can't be trusted and sends ALL alerts at the 
"national alert" priority.

(When Canada last tested in May, I had my phone on silent - the alert vibrated 
but did not make noise - which is a slight improvement, I guess).

-- 
Harald Koch
c...@pobox.com

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[joel]

> On Oct 4, 2023, at 3:27 PM, Matthew Petach  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 12:25 PM Sean Donelan  > wrote:
>> 
>> Emergency alerts are built into all android, ios and other mobile phones 
>> sold in almost every country during the last 5 years.  GSM standards are 
>> global.  The U.S. finally changed "presidential alert" to "national alert" 
>> recently. 
> 
> Well, today's alert still showed up as "Presidential Alert", so I guess the 
> US hasn't quite finished changing over yet.  ^_^;
> (Samsung Galaxy phone)

Since only the President or the Director of FEMA can issue it…. It’s not too 
terrible.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Matthew Petach wrote:

Well, today's alert still showed up as "Presidential Alert", so I guess the
US hasn't quite finished changing over yet.  ^_^;
(Samsung Galaxy phone)


Yeah, Samsung is bad about releasing software updates for its older (a few 
months old) products.


Think about out-of-date security patches :-) if Samsung doesn't update a 
text field.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Aaron Wendel]

I think this is what he was referring to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Hawaii_false_missile_alert

Apparently we don't "all remember".



On 10/4/2023 1:39 PM, Sean Donelan wrote:

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Sabri Berisha wrote:
Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember 
what happened in Hawaii.


Do you mean the 98 people (at least) who died due to the Maui Lahaina 
wildfires.  Seems like the same people who complain about the testing 
of public warning systems also complain when they don't get a warning 
about something that personally affected them.



Public warning systems are designed to get your attention, wake you 
up, interrupt what you are doing.


Nevertheless, I understand some people will remove the batteries from 
smoke alarms and turn off public alerts.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

Inter-agency bureaucracy.

FEMA is part of Homeland Security.  National Weather Service is part of 
the Commerce Department.  Different departments of the government.


Weather radios will active for a White House issued alert from the 
President.  NOAA doesn't activate weather radios for FEMA tests.  Because.


FEMA does activate WEA for specific NOAA/NWS high-impact alerts, and 
Earthquake alerts from USGS.


FEMA, NWS, etc have FAQs and have briefed the press since 2011.

Public warning in the U.S. is FURBARed if you look too deeply.  But most 
people don't care until a tornado blows through their house at 2am.




On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote:

On 10/4/23 1:45 PM, Aaron de Bruyn via NANOG wrote:
I was kinda surprised that none of my NOAA weather radios went off. I sorta 
assumed they'd be tied into the whole "national" alert setup.


That surprises me.

Did the newer alert not get bridged into the same system that NOAA radios 
use?


Is this by chance a Specific Area Message Encoding (S.A.M.E.) filtering / 
lack of data issue?


Can anyone corroborate NOAA weather radios not alerting?

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Matthew Petach]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 12:25 PM Sean Donelan  wrote:

>
> Emergency alerts are built into all android, ios and other mobile phones
> sold in almost every country during the last 5 years.  GSM standards are
> global.  The U.S. finally changed "presidential alert" to "national alert"
> recently.


Well, today's alert still showed up as "Presidential Alert", so I guess the
US hasn't quite finished changing over yet.  ^_^;
(Samsung Galaxy phone)

Matt

Re: cogent spamming directly from ARIN records?

[Matthew Petach]

On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 7:27 PM Collider 
wrote:

> Congrats! LIOAWKI is a hapax legomenon in DuckDuckGo's search results!
> Could you please tell me & the list what it means?
>

Large Internet Outages Are What Kills Income!

It's a phrase that is uttered by members of the finance organization every
time they see Network Engineers planning a "routine maintenance on the core
backbone routers".

Matt

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, nanog08 wrote:

Move?  ...  :-)


Off planet?

All countries in the European Union, plus at least 35 other countries 
around the world, have or will soon implement their county-specific 
version of Emergency Mobile Alerts.


Emergency alerts are built into all android, ios and other mobile phones 
sold in almost every country during the last 5 years.  GSM standards are 
global.  The U.S. finally changed "presidential alert" to "national alert" 
recently.  People in countries with Prime Ministers or monarchs used to 
complain about Presidential Alerts, when they don't have a president.


Streaming video services currently do not have emergency alerts.  So a 
tornado destroying you house will be your warning while streaming or 
watching non-broadcast and non-cable TV.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Grant Taylor via NANOG]

On 10/4/23 1:45 PM, Aaron de Bruyn via NANOG wrote:
I was kinda surprised that none of my NOAA weather radios went off. I 
sorta assumed they'd be tied into the whole "national" alert setup.


That surprises me.

Did the newer alert not get bridged into the same system that NOAA 
radios use?


Is this by chance a Specific Area Message Encoding (S.A.M.E.) filtering 
/ lack of data issue?


Can anyone corroborate NOAA weather radios not alerting?

Why interrupt cell phones, AM/FM radio stations, and TV stations, but 
exclude NOAA weather radios?


This seems like a failure to me.

Or there's an official deprecation for the venerable NOAA / S.A.M.E. 
radios that I grew up with, which I'm not aware of.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Grant Taylor via NANOG]

On 10/4/23 1:21 PM, Sabri Berisha wrote:
So, this "worked". Despite me ensuring that my settings for Amber 
Alerts, Emergency Alerts, Public Safety Alerts, and Test Alerts are 
all off, my phone went nuts.


I'm in a similar situation.

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember 
what happened in Hawaii.


I don't know if today's test is the same thing or not, but I remember in 
the last X years where there was a presidential test of the EAS and 
there was supposedly no way to disable it short of turning your device off.


My understanding is that -- let's go with -- lesser priority sources can 
be silenced, but sufficiently high priority can't be.  If the device is 
on, it's going to make noise.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: cogent spamming directly from ARIN records?

[Eric Kuhnke]

Based on my personal experience of getting onto the contact list of an
extremely persistent Cogent sales person, mostly, I am morbidly curious
what their CRM system looks like for cold and stale leads, and how often
these sets of non-responsive leads get passed on to new junior salespeople.
And exactly how many of those sales people there are and what
policies/management structure they work under.

It took a fair amount of effort and many strongly worded responses on my
part to eventually get my personal cellular phone number removed from their
CRM system (or at least marked as a do-not-contact).

On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 6:52 PM Mel Beckman  wrote:

> This morning I received an email from someone at Cogent asking about an
> ASN I administer. They didn’t give any details, but I assumed it might be
> related to some kind of network transport issue. I replied cordially,
> asking them what they needed. The person then replied with a blatant spam,
> advertising Cogent IP services, in violation of the U.S. CAN-SPAM Act’s
> prohibition against deceptive UCE.
>
> I believe they got the contact information from ARIN, because the ARIN
> technical POC is the only place where my name and the ASN are connected. I
> believe this is a violation of Cogent’s contract with ARIN. Does anybody
> know how I can effectively report this to ARIN? If we can’t even police
> infrastructure providers for spamming, LIOAWKI.
>
>  -mel beckman

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[kn]

My watch and phone went off neither Streaming TV nor any of my computers 
displayed anything.



On 10/4/23 13:38, Joe Klein wrote:
Received it twice on the smartphone. Did not trigger the emergency 
weather system, nor impact stream on TV in NCR.


Joe Klein

"inveniet viam, aut faciet"^ --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II, 
Scene 1)
"/I skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it has been." 
-- /Wayne Gretzky

"I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela



On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 2:35 PM Ryan A. Krenzischek via NANOG 
 wrote:


I've only gotten the alert now ...9 times.

Ryan

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Ryan A. Krenzischek wrote:


Yes, I already tried rebooting several times.  Perhaps a large hammer will fix 
it!  At least I know I'll be well notified in an emergency.


Everytime you turn off a mobile device, it clears the cache of previous 
alerts.


You will receive the alert again when you turn the phone on, because the 
cache will be empty.  In theory, after receiving the alert, the serial 
number will be in the cache.


I do not know why Apple and Google software engineers have trouble with 
their phone software.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

There are dozens of WEA alerts every day, 365x7 days a year. If you leave 
a hidden burner phone turned on the other 364 days a year, it will make a 
noise from something else.  Software mute buttons never mute everything.


Some groups use once a year events to get publicity for their causes 
(zombies, 5G, complaints about government, whatever).  Hawaii tests their 
state-wide siren system every month.  There are likely a few people who 
complain they were sleeping when the sirens are tested.


People who complain about everything, will likely complain about 
everything.



On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Collider wrote:

Some people have to for their safety or medical health (e.g. they're hiding
a burner phone from an abusive relative, or their blood pressure goes up
dangerously high when jumpscared).

The kinds of people who remove batteries from smoke alarms are going to
unfortunately use this affordance, if it's offered. I say let them.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Ryan A. Krenzischek via NANOG]

Yes, I already tried rebooting several times.  Perhaps a large hammer will fix 
it!  At least I know I'll be well notified in an emergency.

> On Oct 4, 2023, at 14:42, Sean Donelan  wrote:
>
> On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Ryan A. Krenzischek wrote:
>> I've only gotten the alert now ...9 times.
>
> Unless you keep turning your phone off, alerts have a serial number. Phones 
> check the serial number for recently received alerts.
>
>
> Or so Android and iOS developers claim.  If you are getting duplicate alerts, 
> their advice is the standard I.T. mantra -- turn you phone off and on again.
>
>



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[nanog08]

Move?  ...  :-)

On 10/4/23 12:21, Sabri Berisha wrote:

- On Oct 1, 2023, at 3:24 PM, Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com wrote:

Hi,


This year's test of the U.S. national emergency alert includes something
for ISPs and network operators.

So, this "worked". Despite me ensuring that my settings for Amber Alerts, 
Emergency Alerts, Public Safety Alerts, and Test Alerts are all off, my phone went nuts.

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
happened in Hawaii.

Thanks,

Sabri

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Aaron de Bruyn via NANOG]

I was kinda surprised that none of my NOAA weather radios went off. I sorta 
assumed they'd be tied into the whole "national" alert setup.

Why interrupt cell phones, AM/FM radio stations, and TV stations, but exclude 
NOAA weather radios?

-A

On Sun Oct 1, 2023, 10:24 PM GMT, Sean Donelan  wrote:
>
> This year's test of the U.S. national emergency alert includes something
> for ISPs and network operators.
>
> The wireless portion of the national test is scheduled 2 minutes (2:18pm
> EDT or 1818 UTC) before the main broadcast test at 2:20. Mobile phones
> usually receive the alert about a minute later. Radio and TV will receive
> the national alert a few minutes after 2:20pm.
>
> iPhone iOS 17 added a new feature for Wireless Emergency Alerts. When iOS
> 17 iPhones get a wireless emergency alert (WEA), it will trigger a data
> network query for additional information. Its a small query and
> response, but there are a lot of iPhones making the query at the same
> time (I'm assuming Apple engineer's have built in some time skew).
>
> Apple has assured FEMA that Apple's CDN and servers will be able to handle
> the triggered load.
>
> The iOS 17 triggered query will either be a tiny blip in the network
> graphs around 2:18pm to 2:22pm which no one will notice, or some CDNs and
> ISP operators will be wondering what that heck that spike was.
>
> If your phone is configured with Spanish, it will display the alert in
> both English and Spanish.
>
> “THIS IS A TEST of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System. No action is
> needed.”
>
> “ESTA ES UNA PRUEBA del Sistema Nacional de Alerta de Emergencia. No se
> necesita acción.”
>
> You'll know your iOS17 device did an extra data query, if it displays a
> longer message (extra sentences) in addition to the messages above.
>
> "This is only a test. No action is required by the public."
>
>
> https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20230803/fema-and-fcc-plan-nationwide-emergency-alert-test-oct-4-2023

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Collider]

Some people have to for their safety or medical health (e.g. they're hiding a 
burner phone from an abusive relative, or their blood pressure goes up 
dangerously high when jumpscared).

The kinds of people who remove batteries from smoke alarms are going to 
unfortunately use this affordance, if it's offered. I say let them.

Le 4 octobre 2023 18:39:04 UTC, Sean Donelan  a écrit :
>On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Sabri Berisha wrote:
>> Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
>> happened in Hawaii.
>
>Do you mean the 98 people (at least) who died due to the Maui Lahaina 
>wildfires.  Seems like the same people who complain about the testing of 
>public warning systems also complain when they don't get a warning about 
>something that personally affected them.
>
>
>Public warning systems are designed to get your attention, wake you up, 
>interrupt what you are doing.
>
>Nevertheless, I understand some people will remove the batteries from smoke 
>alarms and turn off public alerts.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Ryan A. Krenzischek wrote:

I've only gotten the alert now ...9 times.


Unless you keep turning your phone off, alerts have a serial number. 
Phones check the serial number for recently received alerts.



Or so Android and iOS developers claim.  If you are getting duplicate 
alerts, their advice is the standard I.T. mantra -- turn you phone off and 
on again.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sean Donelan]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Sabri Berisha wrote:

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
happened in Hawaii.


Do you mean the 98 people (at least) who died due to the Maui Lahaina 
wildfires.  Seems like the same people who complain about the testing of 
public warning systems also complain when they don't get a warning about 
something that personally affected them.



Public warning systems are designed to get your attention, wake you up, 
interrupt what you are doing.


Nevertheless, I understand some people will remove the batteries from 
smoke alarms and turn off public alerts.

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Joe Klein]

Received it twice on the smartphone. Did not trigger the emergency weather
system, nor impact stream on TV in NCR.

Joe Klein

"inveniet viam, aut faciet" --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II, Scene 1)
"*I skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it has been."
-- *Wayne
Gretzky
"I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela


On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 2:35 PM Ryan A. Krenzischek via NANOG <
nanog@nanog.org> wrote:

> I've only gotten the alert now ...9 times.
>
> Ryan
>

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Ryan A. Krenzischek via NANOG]

I've only gotten the alert now ...9 times.

Ryan


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

RE: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Kain, Becki (.) via NANOG]

My watch went off.  scared the beejeebus out of me


-Original Message-
From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Sabri Berisha
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2023 2:21 PM
To: Sean Donelan 
Cc: nanog 
Subject: Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

WARNING: This message originated outside of Ford Motor Company. Use caution 
when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding.


- On Oct 1, 2023, at 3:24 PM, Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com wrote:

Hi,

> This year's test of the U.S. national emergency alert includes 
> something for ISPs and network operators.

So, this "worked". Despite me ensuring that my settings for Amber Alerts, 
Emergency Alerts, Public Safety Alerts, and Test Alerts are all off, my phone 
went nuts.

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
happened in Hawaii.

Thanks,

Sabri

Re: U.S. test of national alerts on Oct. 4 at 2:20pm EDT (1820 UTC)

[Sabri Berisha]

- On Oct 1, 2023, at 3:24 PM, Sean Donelan s...@donelan.com wrote:

Hi,

> This year's test of the U.S. national emergency alert includes something
> for ISPs and network operators.

So, this "worked". Despite me ensuring that my settings for Amber Alerts, 
Emergency Alerts, Public Safety Alerts, and Test Alerts are all off, my phone 
went nuts.

Makes me wonder what I have to do to opt out of this. We all remember what 
happened in Hawaii.

Thanks,

Sabri

Re: cogent spamming directly from ARIN records?

[Delong.com via NANOG]

My best guess is “Life As We Know It Will Be Over”, but that’s just a guess.

Owen


> On Oct 2, 2023, at 17:32, Collider  wrote:
> 
> So is LAWKIWBO, which is the correct acronym mentioned downthread.
> 
> 
> Le 3 octobre 2023 00:29:08 UTC, Collider  a 
> écrit :
>> Congrats! LIOAWKI is a hapax legomenon in DuckDuckGo's search results! Could 
>> you please tell me & the list what it means?
>> 
>> 
>> Le 2 octobre 2023 15:28:03 UTC, Mel Beckman  a écrit :
>>> This morning I received an email from someone at Cogent asking about an ASN 
>>> I administer. They didn’t give any details, but I assumed it might be 
>>> related to some kind of network transport issue. I replied cordially, 
>>> asking them what they needed. The person then replied with a blatant spam, 
>>> advertising Cogent IP services, in violation of the U.S. CAN-SPAM Act’s 
>>> prohibition against deceptive UCE.
>>> 
>>> I believe they got the contact information from ARIN, because the ARIN 
>>> technical POC is the only place where my name and the ASN are connected. I 
>>> believe this is a violation of Cogent’s contract with ARIN. Does anybody 
>>> know how I can effectively report this to ARIN? If we can’t even police 
>>> infrastructure providers for spamming, LIOAWKI.
>>> 
>>>  -mel beckman
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: maximum ipv4 bgp prefix length of /24 ?

[Owen DeLong via NANOG]

> On Oct 4, 2023, at 03:18, Mark Tinka  wrote:
> 
>  
> 
>> On 10/4/23 09:27, Elmar K. Bins wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>  Justin,
>> 
>> I'm not sure you're not confusing scope here.
>> 
>> Everybody and their sister accept smaller blocks from their customers; we're
>> all talking about the DFZ here, not customer routes that you aggregate.
> 
> Actually, we don't.
> 
> From our customers, the most we are accepting today is a /24 and a /48. This 
> is for transit customers with their own AS and address space.
> 
> Of course, if it's a DIA customer, we can assign longer prefixes, but that is 
> internal address space that belongs to us.
> 
> Mark.

Which if you read his message carefully is pretty much exactly what he said. 

Owen

Re: maximum ipv4 bgp prefix length of /24 ?

[Owen DeLong via NANOG]

If you maximally disaggregate to /24, you end up with about 12M fib entries. At 
/25 this doubles and you double it again for every bit you move right. 

At /24, we are on borrowed time without walking right. Also, the CPU in most 
routers won’t handle the churn of a 10M prefix RIB. 

Owen


> On Oct 4, 2023, at 03:15, Mark Tinka  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10/4/23 12:11, Musa Stephen Honlue wrote:
>> 
>> Which one is easier,
>> 
>> 1. Convincing the tens of thousands of network operators and equipment 
>> vendors to modify configs and code to accept more specifics than /24, or
> 
> Equipment vendors can already support 10 million entries in FIB. They just 
> ask for a little bit of cash for it.
> 
> Mark.

Re: ARIN email address (was cogent spamming directly from ARIN records?)

[Owen DeLong via NANOG]

Problem with that theory is the ratio of collateral damage to pain inflicted. 

Filter or deeper cogent and they don’t feel anything themselves. Their 
customers _might_ miss being able to reach your customers (or you), but then it 
is Cogent’s customers that feel the pain the most and Cogent to a much lesser 
degree and only as a second order effect. 

You will definitely miss connecting to some of Cogent’s customers, so you have 
also directly inflicted pain upon your self (and likely your customers). 

Personally, I would support any of my providers teaching Cogent a lesson this 
way, but most customers aren’t so understanding or even aware of the situation 
and they don’t care even if it is explained to them. They expect their packets 
to get delivered. That’s why they pay you.

It would be nice if there were a way to get Cogent fined or to sue Cogent for 
these acts and raise their costs directly without harming their customers, but 
so far nobody has figured out a way to do it. (Perhaps the layer 9 types in the 
list can put their brains to work on this problem). 

Owen


> On Oct 4, 2023, at 04:30, b...@uu3.net wrote:
> 
> This is not the outcome of internet ecosystem, this is outcome
> of commercialization, where money is what is all cared, not good
> product, ethical behavior, etc.
> 
> This is also because good guys do NOT fight back strong enough.
> Cogent start to give you hard time? Start to filter they whole
> prefixes? Maybe depeer them?
> 
> I know this sound extreme, but.. everything else seems to fail..
> 
> 
> -- Original message --
> 
> From: Christopher Morrow 
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: ARIN email address (was cogent spamming directly from ARIN
>records?)
> Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 15:48:11 -0400
> 
> i agree this is a sad outcome of the internet ecosystem.
> 
>> We keep discussing it because we care about keeping the internet
>> running. It's similar to why we keep looking for new security holes in
>> existing software: we don't stop because inevitably we'll find more so
>> it's a lost cause, we keep looking because inevitably we'll find more
>> so the product becomes more secure.
> 
> those are a bit of a false equivalence... but... ok.
> I think: "Oh look, more spam, delete"
> is basically how this sort of problem (email from randos trying to
> sell me ED pills or 10Gs) should be treated.
> I don't know that it's helpful to keep re-litigating that end state :(
> 
> I'm sure telling dave shaeffer: "Hey, your sales droids are being
> rude" is going to end as well as sending him ED pill emails.

Re: ARIN email address (was cogent spamming directly from ARIN records?)

[borg]

This is not the outcome of internet ecosystem, this is outcome
of commercialization, where money is what is all cared, not good
product, ethical behavior, etc.

This is also because good guys do NOT fight back strong enough.
Cogent start to give you hard time? Start to filter they whole
prefixes? Maybe depeer them?

I know this sound extreme, but.. everything else seems to fail..


-- Original message --

From: Christopher Morrow 
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: ARIN email address (was cogent spamming directly from ARIN
records?)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 15:48:11 -0400

i agree this is a sad outcome of the internet ecosystem.

> We keep discussing it because we care about keeping the internet
> running. It's similar to why we keep looking for new security holes in
> existing software: we don't stop because inevitably we'll find more so
> it's a lost cause, we keep looking because inevitably we'll find more
> so the product becomes more secure.

those are a bit of a false equivalence... but... ok.
I think: "Oh look, more spam, delete"
is basically how this sort of problem (email from randos trying to
sell me ED pills or 10Gs) should be treated.
I don't know that it's helpful to keep re-litigating that end state :(

I'm sure telling dave shaeffer: "Hey, your sales droids are being
rude" is going to end as well as sending him ED pill emails.

Re: maximum ipv4 bgp prefix length of /24 ?

[Elmar K. Bins]

Re Mark,

mark@tinka.africa (Mark Tinka) wrote:

> From our customers, the most we are accepting today is a /24 and a /48. This
> is for transit customers with their own AS and address space.

Oh sure - I was looking at those customers who might need multihoming to their
ISP, but not multihoming in the DFZ, unlike the ones you're looking at here.

> Of course, if it's a DIA customer, we can assign longer prefixes, but that
> is internal address space that belongs to us.

Exactly what I was referring to. This is what I believe to be the standard case.

Elmar.

Re: maximum ipv4 bgp prefix length of /24 ?

[Mark Tinka]

On 10/4/23 09:27, Elmar K. Bins wrote:


Justin,

I'm not sure you're not confusing scope here.

Everybody and their sister accept smaller blocks from their customers; we're
all talking about the DFZ here, not customer routes that you aggregate.


Actually, we don't.

From our customers, the most we are accepting today is a /24 and a /48. 
This is for transit customers with their own AS and address space.


Of course, if it's a DIA customer, we can assign longer prefixes, but 
that is internal address space that belongs to us.


Mark.

Re: maximum ipv4 bgp prefix length of /24 ?

[Mark Tinka]

On 10/4/23 12:11, Musa Stephen Honlue wrote:


Which one is easier,

1. Convincing the tens of thousands of network operators and 
equipment vendors to modify configs and code to accept more specifics 
than /24, or


Equipment vendors can already support 10 million entries in FIB. They 
just ask for a little bit of cash for it.


Mark.

Re: maximum ipv4 bgp prefix length of /24 ?

[Musa Stephen Honlue]

Which one is easier,

1. Convincing the tens of thousands of network operators and
equipment vendors to modify configs and code to accept more specifics than
/24, or
2. Moving to IPv6 a protocol that has been here for 20+ years

???

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 at 12:41, William Herrin  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 11:56 AM Justin Wilson (Lists) 
> wrote:
> > I think it is going to have to happen.  We have several folks on the IX
> and various consulting clients who only need 3-6 Ips but have to burn a
> full /24 to participate in BGP. I wrote a blog post awhile back on this
> topic
>
> Hi Justin,
>
> The Internet is not one network, it's tens of thousands of them all
> run by different people who make their own choices. To participate in
> BGP with a more specific prefix than /24, you must convince nearly all
> of them to allow it. How are you planning to reach a human being at
> those networks, much less a human being in a position to make that
> choice? Let alone talk them into the change...
>
> When it was a handful of networks trying to filter at /19, it was
> possible to beat that handful over the head. Even then it took years
> before they gave up on the idea. /24 has been the de facto minimum
> since forever. It's not a handful of networks, it's nearly everybody.
>
> So, if you'd like to make a wager on /25 and more specifics becoming a
> real thing on the backbone, I'll be happy to take your money.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
>
> --
> William Herrin
> b...@herrin.us
> https://bill.herrin.us/
>

Re: maximum ipv4 bgp prefix length of /24 ?

[William Herrin]

On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 11:56 AM Justin Wilson (Lists)  wrote:
> I think it is going to have to happen.  We have several folks on the IX and 
> various consulting clients who only need 3-6 Ips but have to burn a full /24 
> to participate in BGP. I wrote a blog post awhile back on this topic

Hi Justin,

The Internet is not one network, it's tens of thousands of them all
run by different people who make their own choices. To participate in
BGP with a more specific prefix than /24, you must convince nearly all
of them to allow it. How are you planning to reach a human being at
those networks, much less a human being in a position to make that
choice? Let alone talk them into the change...

When it was a handful of networks trying to filter at /19, it was
possible to beat that handful over the head. Even then it took years
before they gave up on the idea. /24 has been the de facto minimum
since forever. It's not a handful of networks, it's nearly everybody.

So, if you'd like to make a wager on /25 and more specifics becoming a
real thing on the backbone, I'll be happy to take your money.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: maximum ipv4 bgp prefix length of /24 ?

[Elmar K. Bins]

li...@mtin.net (Justin Wilson (Lists)) wrote:
> I think it is going to have to happen.  We have several folks on the IX and 
> various consulting clients who only need 3-6 Ips but have to burn a full /24 
> to participate in BGP. I wrote a blog post awhile back on this topic 
> https://blog.j2sw.com/data-center/unpopular-opinion-bgp-should-accept-smaller-than-a-24/

Justin,

I'm not sure you're not confusing scope here.

Everybody and their sister accept smaller blocks from their customers; we're
all talking about the DFZ here, not customer routes that you aggregate.

I would estimate most of the "consulting clients" have no need for multihoming.
If they do, they can always use IP, and abandon legacy IP.

Elmar.

PS: I'm convinced we'll never agree to put longer prefixes into the DFZ. The
gear everybody's using doesn't handle it well, and as people have stated
before, there's just no incentive. I, personally, don't even take /24s in
many places (sometimes cutting off at /20), but then I take defaults from
my transits who have less ancient gear.