Re: One Can't Have It Both Ways Re: Streamline the CG-NAT Re: EzIP Re: IPv4 address block

2024-01-24 Thread Abraham Y. Chen via NANOG

Hi, Owen:

0)    I am glad that you do not object to the notion that two premises 
on an RAN can establish end-to-end connectivity via L2 routing.


1)    For a better visualization, the below derivation will make use of 
figures in the EzIP Draft:


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space

    A.    As I stated, premises on RAN1 (served by SPR1 - 
69.41.190.110)and premises on RAN4 (served by SPR4 - 69.41.190.148) in 
Figure 1 can communicate with one another via L2 routing based on 240/4, 
respectively. Since the 240/4 pool is large enough to serve the entire 
population of most countries, each needs only one RAN to provide the 
basic end-to-end connectivity for daily life of all citizens. Thus, 
Intra-RAN direct connectivity is provided.


    B.    Similarly, SPR1 (69.41.190.110)and SPR4 (69.41.190.148)can 
communicate with each other by L2 routing via the Internet core routers 
(utilizing plain IPv4 headers as well).


    C.    For T1z (192.168.1.9) on Premises 1 (240.0.0.0) to 
communicate with IoT T4z (246.1.6.40), we will need to extend the plain 
IPv4 header used in Step B. above by utilizing RFC791 to carry the 240/4 
addresses as Option words. Figure 16 shows an EzIP header configured for 
such a situation. Note that Word 9 represents the port numbers of IoTs 
on RGs. Since T4z is an IoT directly connect to SPR4, only the value 
(9N) for T1z is meaningful.


    D.    An IP packet with header in the form of Figure 16 can be 
delivered, if


        a.    Routers between SPR1 and SPR4 will treat it as a plain 
IPv4 packet (i.e., ignoring the Option words), and,


        b.    SPRs recognize the Option words and make use of then to 
route the packets across the RANs.


2)    For Step 1) D. a., it is said that many network routers drop 
packets having Option word due to certain security ("IP Source Route" 
attacks?) concerns. Although, there have been reports that such packets 
did get through certain routes anyway. This scheme is similar as those 
dropping 240/4 addressed packets. So, disabling such mechanism along the 
desired path may be feasible.


3)    For Step 1) D. b., enhanced SPR programs will be needed to 
recognize the Option words for utilizing them to route when the 
inter-RAN direct connectivity mode is activated.


        So, direct world-wide end-to-end connectivity is possible based 
on the EzIP scheme.


4)    However, economics comes into play when considering to deploy Step 
1) D. at this juncture. Since the Internet has evolved into the 
predominantly CDN model whose architecture is a master-slave hierarchy, 
subscribers desiring for direct inter-RAN connectivity is likely a much 
smaller subset among those desiring for Intra-RAN connectivity. This is 
like comparing international mail versus the domestic counter part. It 
may be difficult to justify efforts for Steps 2) & 3), before the demand 
becomes universal upon the general public realizing the possible 
functions. Instead, one of the old PSTN practices may be mimicked here 
as the interim solution. That is, the telephony "Foreign Exchange" setup 
used to enable a subscriber at distance to appear on local telephone 
services. It was achieved by permanently "nailed-up" a telephone 
extension wiring (started from a pair of actual physical copper wires in 
the earlier days to a dedicated voice channel in a digital multiplex 
environment) to a business that is remote from a community it serves. I 
am sure that the equivalent capability already exists in the Internet 
and is being used somewhere. This can be utilized to set up the 
extension link between any two RANs having the need.


Regards,


Abe (2024-01-24 12:28 EST)





On 2024-01-20 13:23, Owen DeLong wrote:
No. No matter how you cobble it, IPv4 doesn’t have enough addresses to 
restore proper end to end connectivity.


Owen



On Jan 20, 2024, at 07:36, Abraham Y. Chen  wrote:


Hi, Owen:

1)    "  ...  IPv4 used to work before NAT made everything horrible.  ":

    Utilizing 240/4, RAN is a flat space which should support this 
kind of rudimentary end-to-end connectivity within each RAN. (called 
L2 routing, correct?)


Regards,


Abe (2024-01-20 10:35)


On 2024-01-19 04:02, Owen DeLong wrote:
Any host connected to a reasonably well peered ISP (e.g. NOT Cogent) 
with IPv6 should be able to communicate with any other such host so 
long as the administrative policies on both sides permit it.


I have no difficulty directly reaching a variety of IPv6 hosts from 
the /48 in my home.


However, it’s not like dial-up modem operations in the PSTN in that 
IP is an inherently connectionless packet switched service while 
modems were an inherently circuit switched connection oriented service.


However, it does work like IPv4 used to work before NAT made 
everything horrible.


Owen



On Jan 15, 2024, at 12:20, Abraham Y. Chen  wrote:

Hi, Forrest:

1) I have a question:

    If I subscribe to IPv6, can I contact another 

Re: Stealthy Overlay Network Re: 202401100645.AYC Re: IPv4 address block

2024-01-21 Thread Abraham Y. Chen via NANOG

Hi, Chris:

0)    Thanks for your observation.

1)    Although I specifically requested Karim to go offline on our idea 
to his inquiry, lots of comments appeared on NANOG publicly. To be 
polite, I tried to respond by clarifying and describing each. 
Unfortunately, many comments are actually persistent IPv6 promotions, 
even my attempt of bringing up the community consensus of "Dual-Stack 
has distinguished IPv6 and IPv4 into separate tracks" was in vain.


2)    Philosophically, IPv6 and IPv4 are kind of like two religions, 
each with its own believers. As long as the devotees of each focus on 
their respective passion, the world will be peaceful. As soon as one 
camp imposes its preference onto the other, friction starts. Unchecked, 
it can go even worse. ... But, I digressed.


Regards,


Abe (2024-01-21 12:06)


On 2024-01-20 12:50, Chris Adams wrote:

Once upon a time,sro...@ronan-online.comsaid:

I am curious if anyone has ever given you positive feedback on this idea? So far
all I’ve seen is the entire community thinking it’s a bad idea. Why do you
insist this is a good solution?

Because people keep responding.




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