Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Bryan Holloway]

Let me Bing that for you.

Oh, wait.


On 10/30/18 9:41 AM, Tom Beecher wrote:
Maybe Cogent refuses to work with Google so nobody can search for 
evidence of said cake


:)

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 4:55 PM Kenny Taylor <mailto:kenny.tay...@kccd.edu>> wrote:


I wasn't familiar with it, so thanks for sharing!  The Google search
for 'he cogent cake' was entertaining.  Hard to believe that
conflict is going on 9+ years..

Kenny


-Original Message-
From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org>> On Behalf Of Owen DeLong
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 2:54 PM
To: nanog list mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
    Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent

Mainly I wasn’t expounding because I’m surprised to learn that
there’s anyone on this list unfamiliar with it.

Didn’t want to bore people.

I tended to speak my mind while I worked for HE, I’m certainly not
going to stop as a result of no longer working there. ;-)

Owen


 > On Oct 24, 2018, at 04:51 , John Peach
mailto:john-na...@peachfamily.net>> wrote:
 >
 > On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote:
 >> Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his
private business to the list.
 >
 > There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and
peering (and possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably
Owen is not expounding because he used to work for HE.
 >
 >> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles
mailto:b...@shub-internet.org>
<mailto:b...@shub-internet.org <mailto:b...@shub-internet.org>>> wrote:
 >>    On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar mailto:r...@tajvar.io>
 >>    <mailto:r...@tajvar.io <mailto:r...@tajvar.io>>> wrote:
 >>     > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's
relevant
 >>    to the current thread.
 >>    Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done
 >>    short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in
 >>    any further employment opportunities with them.  OTOH, I am
totally
 >>    happy to continue to be a customer of theirs.
 >>    Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate
 >>    here.  If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand.
 >>    For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think
 >>    we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're
just a
 >>    small customer of theirs.
 >>    --     Brad Knowles mailto:b...@shub-internet.org> <mailto:b...@shub-internet.org
<mailto:b...@shub-internet.org>>>
 >>    Please forgive any typos.  I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my
 >>    laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > John
 > PGP Public Key: 412934AC

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Tom Beecher]

Maybe Cogent refuses to work with Google so nobody can search for evidence
of said cake

:)

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 4:55 PM Kenny Taylor  wrote:

> I wasn't familiar with it, so thanks for sharing!  The Google search for
> 'he cogent cake' was entertaining.  Hard to believe that conflict is going
> on 9+ years..
>
> Kenny
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Owen DeLong
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 2:54 PM
> To: nanog list 
> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>
> Mainly I wasn’t expounding because I’m surprised to learn that there’s
> anyone on this list unfamiliar with it.
>
> Didn’t want to bore people.
>
> I tended to speak my mind while I worked for HE, I’m certainly not going
> to stop as a result of no longer working there. ;-)
>
> Owen
>
>
> > On Oct 24, 2018, at 04:51 , John Peach 
> wrote:
> >
> > On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote:
> >> Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private
> business to the list.
> >
> > There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering
> (and possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not
> expounding because he used to work for HE.
> >
> >> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles  <mailto:b...@shub-internet.org>> wrote:
> >>On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar  >><mailto:r...@tajvar.io>> wrote:
> >> > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant
> >>to the current thread.
> >>Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done
> >>short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in
> >>any further employment opportunities with them.  OTOH, I am totally
> >>happy to continue to be a customer of theirs.
> >>Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate
> >>here.  If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand.
> >>For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think
> >>we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a
> >>small customer of theirs.
> >>-- Brad Knowles  b...@shub-internet.org>>
> >>Please forgive any typos.  I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my
> >>laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > John
> > PGP Public Key: 412934AC
>
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Mike Hammett]

We've adopted sending cakes a couple times in that same spirit. They've been 
met with equal success. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "John Peach"  
To: "North American Network Operators' Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 6:51:39 AM 
Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent 

On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote: 
> Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private 
> business to the list. 

There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering 
(and possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not 
expounding because he used to work for HE. 

> 
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles  <mailto:b...@shub-internet.org>> wrote: 
> 
> On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar  <mailto:r...@tajvar.io>> wrote: 
> 
> > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant 
> to the current thread. 
> 
> Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done 
> short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in 
> any further employment opportunities with them. OTOH, I am totally 
> happy to continue to be a customer of theirs. 
> 
> Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate 
> here. If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand. 
> 
> 
> For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think 
> we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a 
> small customer of theirs. 
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles mailto:b...@shub-internet.org>> 
> 
> Please forgive any typos. I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my 
> laptop, in addition to having a broken finger. 
> 




-- 
John 
PGP Public Key: 412934AC 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[valdis . kletnieks]

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 17:19:41 -0700, Matthew Petach said:

> I can vouch for it.
>
> The cake was delicious and moist.

I'm glad to hear it did *some* sort of good. :)


pgpZqiULFZh90.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Matthew Petach]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 1:54 PM Kenny Taylor  wrote:

> I wasn't familiar with it, so thanks for sharing!  The Google search for
> 'he cogent cake' was entertaining.  Hard to believe that conflict is going
> on 9+ years..
>
> Kenny
>

I can vouch for it.

The cake was delicious and moist.

And it was not a lie.

;)

RE: Whats going on at Cogent

[Kenny Taylor]

I wasn't familiar with it, so thanks for sharing!  The Google search for 'he 
cogent cake' was entertaining.  Hard to believe that conflict is going on 9+ 
years..

Kenny


-Original Message-
From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Owen DeLong
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 2:54 PM
To: nanog list 
Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent

Mainly I wasn’t expounding because I’m surprised to learn that there’s anyone 
on this list unfamiliar with it.

Didn’t want to bore people.

I tended to speak my mind while I worked for HE, I’m certainly not going to 
stop as a result of no longer working there. ;-)

Owen


> On Oct 24, 2018, at 04:51 , John Peach  wrote:
> 
> On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote:
>> Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private 
>> business to the list.
> 
> There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering (and 
> possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not expounding 
> because he used to work for HE.
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles > <mailto:b...@shub-internet.org>> wrote:
>>On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar ><mailto:r...@tajvar.io>> wrote:
>> > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant
>>to the current thread.
>>Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done
>>short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in
>>any further employment opportunities with them.  OTOH, I am totally
>>happy to continue to be a customer of theirs.
>>Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate
>>here.  If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand.
>>For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think
>>we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a
>>small customer of theirs.
>>-- Brad Knowles > <mailto:b...@shub-internet.org>>
>>Please forgive any typos.  I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my
>>laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> John
> PGP Public Key: 412934AC

Cogent and HE feedback [was Re: Whats going on at Cogent]

[John Kristoff]

[ I've largely ignored this thread based on the Subject, but saw this so
  I'll change the subject to better reflect where I'm taking it.  Sorry
  if this is a rehashing things others my have already said. - jtk ]

On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 15:32:34 +
Ross Tajvar  wrote:

> I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to
> the current thread.

DePaul has been a customer of Cogent for over 15 years, since the
time they were selling 100 Mb/s or $1000/month.  In my opinion from the
view of an end user net, nothing fancy, just budget commodity Internet.

DePaul has had HE for many years as well. We can see some of the
rich peering that Owen suggested they have more of.

HE and Cogent are amongst the lowest price providers in my experience.

Note, if you're a network like DePaul's and getting transit from one,
it would be advisable to get transit from the other (or at least someone
else who can reliably reach them).  There is plenty of peering dispute
history to read up on I won't try to summarize here.

If you care about traffic engineering with community tags, you might be
disappointed that HE really only support RTBH.  However in my
experience, support and sales for both organizations seem just fine for
what they deliver. I recently had an opportunity to use both (e.g.
upgrades and enabling BFD) and things went swimmingly.

Just so they get a nod, we also use ServerCentral as a sort of
full-service provider.  We rely on them for all sorts of things.  They,
like Cogent and HE are also a good value for DePaul in my opinion.

That said, what is right for one organization is not necessarily right
for another.  That's just my experience and opinion.

John

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Owen DeLong]

Mainly I wasn’t expounding because I’m surprised to learn that there’s anyone 
on this list unfamiliar with it.

Didn’t want to bore people.

I tended to speak my mind while I worked for HE, I’m certainly not going to 
stop as a result of no longer working there. ;-)

Owen


> On Oct 24, 2018, at 04:51 , John Peach  wrote:
> 
> On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote:
>> Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private 
>> business to the list.
> 
> There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering (and 
> possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not expounding 
> because he used to work for HE.
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles > > wrote:
>>On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar >> wrote:
>> > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant
>>to the current thread.
>>Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done
>>short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in
>>any further employment opportunities with them.  OTOH, I am totally
>>happy to continue to be a customer of theirs.
>>Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate
>>here.  If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand.
>>For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think
>>we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a
>>small customer of theirs.
>>-- Brad Knowles > >
>>Please forgive any typos.  I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my
>>laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> John
> PGP Public Key: 412934AC

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[John Peach]

On 10/23/2018 08:47 PM, Ross Tajvar wrote:
Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private 
business to the list.


There is no secret - a quick search on the terms HE, Cogent and peering 
(and possibly cake) will give you the answer. Presumably Owen is not 
expounding because he used to work for HE.




On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles > wrote:


On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar mailto:r...@tajvar.io>> wrote:

 > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant
to the current thread.

Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done
short-term contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in
any further employment opportunities with them.  OTOH, I am totally
happy to continue to be a customer of theirs.

Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate
here.  If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand.


For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think
we've been pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a
small customer of theirs.

-- 
Brad Knowles mailto:b...@shub-internet.org>>


Please forgive any typos.  I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my
laptop, in addition to having a broken finger.






--
John
PGP Public Key: 412934AC

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Ross Tajvar]

Sorry all. I misread Owen's email. I'm not trying to air his private
business to the list.

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 8:20 PM Brad Knowles  wrote:

> On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar  wrote:
>
> > I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the
> current thread.
>
> Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done short-term
> contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in any further
> employment opportunities with them.  OTOH, I am totally happy to continue
> to be a customer of theirs.
>
> Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate here.
> If Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand.
>
>
> For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think we've been
> pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a small customer of
> theirs.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles 
>
> Please forgive any typos.  I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my laptop,
> in addition to having a broken finger.
>
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Brad Knowles]

On Oct 23, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Ross Tajvar  wrote:

> I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the 
> current thread.

Speaking only for myself, there are companies where I have done short-term 
contracts, and where I am definitely not interested in any further employment 
opportunities with them.  OTOH, I am totally happy to continue to be a customer 
of theirs.

Further discussion of that sort of thing would not be appropriate here.  If 
Josh is in the same boat with HE, I totally understand.


For the Network Time Foundation (and related projects), I think we've been 
pretty happy as a customer of HE, but then we're just a small customer of 
theirs.

-- 
Brad Knowles 

Please forgive any typos.  I'm fighting a failing keyboard on my laptop, in 
addition to having a broken finger.

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Josh Luthman]

It isn't IMO


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Ross Tajvar  wrote:

> I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the
> current thread.
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 11:22 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> If there is history about HE I should know before signing up with them
>> I'd love to know off list.
>>
>> If it's just between you and HE I hope it wasn't too bad, and I'd be
>> happy to listen, but I don't feel like it's something you need to share at
>> all.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>> Suite 1337
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>>
>>> Cogent is bigger.
>>>
>>> HE is more widely peered, especially in IPv6.
>>>
>>> I may be somewhat prejudice, though I don’t work for HE any more. Most
>>> on this list know the history so I won’t repeat it here.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 21, 2018, at 05:39 , Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>
>>> I guess first thing's first...  you aren't doing anything to force the
>>> traffic that way, are you?
>>>
>>> If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming
>>> over that Cogent.  :-)
>>>
>>> CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
>>>
>>> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core
>>> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
>>>
>>> Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the
>>> most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai,
>>> Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's
>>> where your traffic will come from.
>>>
>>> Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that
>>> you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
>>>
>>> What do your netflows say?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" 
>>> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
>>> *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>>>
>>> Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps
>>> peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is
>>> inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of
>>> our inbound.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> Baldur
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They
>>>> are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix
>>>> them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing
>>>>> this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get
>>>>> other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
>>>>>
>>>>> On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a
>&g

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Ross Tajvar]

I am also interested in hearing about this. I think it's relevant to the
current thread.

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 11:22 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> If there is history about HE I should know before signing up with them I'd
> love to know off list.
>
> If it's just between you and HE I hope it wasn't too bad, and I'd be happy
> to listen, but I don't feel like it's something you need to share at all.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>> Cogent is bigger.
>>
>> HE is more widely peered, especially in IPv6.
>>
>> I may be somewhat prejudice, though I don’t work for HE any more. Most on
>> this list know the history so I won’t repeat it here.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2018, at 05:39 , Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>> I guess first thing's first...  you aren't doing anything to force the
>> traffic that way, are you?
>>
>> If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming
>> over that Cogent.  :-)
>>
>> CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
>>
>> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core
>> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
>>
>> Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the
>> most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai,
>> Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's
>> where your traffic will come from.
>>
>> Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that
>> you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
>>
>> What do your netflows say?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" 
>> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
>> *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>>
>> Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps
>> peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is
>> inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of
>> our inbound.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Baldur
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender  wrote:
>>
>>> We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They
>>> are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix
>>> them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing
>>>> this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get
>>>> other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
>>>>
>>>> On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a
>>>> good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers:
>>>> http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some
>>>> markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the
>>>> lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a
>>>> different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my
>>>> traffic from there.
>>>>
>>>> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an
>>>> increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc.
>>>> in addition to the normal calls.

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Darin Steffl]

We've had HE for 4 years. Pretty great company with good bandwidth. Most of
our traffic prefers them.

Their support is top notch as well.

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 10:20 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> If there is history about HE I should know before signing up with them I'd
> love to know off list.
>
> If it's just between you and HE I hope it wasn't too bad, and I'd be happy
> to listen, but I don't feel like it's something you need to share at all.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:
>
>> Cogent is bigger.
>>
>> HE is more widely peered, especially in IPv6.
>>
>> I may be somewhat prejudice, though I don’t work for HE any more. Most on
>> this list know the history so I won’t repeat it here.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2018, at 05:39 , Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>> I guess first thing's first...  you aren't doing anything to force the
>> traffic that way, are you?
>>
>> If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming
>> over that Cogent.  :-)
>>
>> CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
>>
>> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core
>> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
>>
>> Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the
>> most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai,
>> Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's
>> where your traffic will come from.
>>
>> Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that
>> you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
>>
>> What do your netflows say?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" 
>> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
>> *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>>
>> Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps
>> peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is
>> inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of
>> our inbound.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Baldur
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender  wrote:
>>
>>> We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They
>>> are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix
>>> them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing
>>>> this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get
>>>> other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
>>>>
>>>> On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a
>>>> good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers:
>>>> http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some
>>>> markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the
>>>> lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a
>>>> different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my
>>>> traffic from there.
>>>>
>>>> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an
>>>> increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is regist

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Josh Luthman]

If there is history about HE I should know before signing up with them I'd
love to know off list.

If it's just between you and HE I hope it wasn't too bad, and I'd be happy
to listen, but I don't feel like it's something you need to share at all.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:

> Cogent is bigger.
>
> HE is more widely peered, especially in IPv6.
>
> I may be somewhat prejudice, though I don’t work for HE any more. Most on
> this list know the history so I won’t repeat it here.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2018, at 05:39 , Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> I guess first thing's first...  you aren't doing anything to force the
> traffic that way, are you?
>
> If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming
> over that Cogent.  :-)
>
> CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
>
> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core
> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
>
> Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the
> most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai,
> Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's
> where your traffic will come from.
>
> Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that
> you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
>
> What do your netflows say?
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" 
> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>
> Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps
> peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is
> inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of
> our inbound.
>
> Regards.
>
> Baldur
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender  wrote:
>
>> We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They
>> are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix
>> them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing
>>> this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get
>>> other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
>>>
>>> On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a
>>> good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers:
>>> http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some
>>> markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
>>>
>>> On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the
>>> lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a
>>> different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my
>>> traffic from there.
>>>
>>> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an
>>> increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc.
>>> in addition to the normal calls..
>>>
>>> On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender  wrote:
>>>
>>> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I
>>> wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another
>>> email...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <
>>> dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfo

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Owen DeLong]

Cogent is bigger.

HE is more widely peered, especially in IPv6.

I may be somewhat prejudice, though I don’t work for HE any more. Most on this 
list know the history so I won’t repeat it here.

Owen


> On Oct 21, 2018, at 05:39 , Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> I guess first thing's first...  you aren't doing anything to force the 
> traffic that way, are you?
> 
> If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over 
> that Cogent.  :-)
> 
> CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
> 
> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core 
> <http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core>
> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core 
> <http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core>
> 
> Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most 
> is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. 
> are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic 
> will come from.
> 
> Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're 
> on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
> 
> What do your netflows say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> 
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Baldur Norddahl" 
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
> 
> Is he.net <http://he.net/> smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 
> 6.7 Gbps peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This 
> is inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of 
> our inbound.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Baldur
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender  <mailto:do...@telecurve.com>> wrote:
> We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are 
> smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, 
> you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas  <mailto:edu...@unknowndevice.ca>> wrote:
> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this 
> for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other 
> transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
> 
> On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good 
> netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net 
> <http://routing.he.net/>. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some 
> markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
> 
> On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb  <mailto:daknob@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely 
> cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different 
> provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic 
> from there.
> 
> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in 
> salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to 
> the normal calls..
> 
> On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender  <mailto:do...@telecurve.com>> wrote:
> 
> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't 
> interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email...
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  <mailto:cb.li...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard  <mailto:dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com>> wrote:
> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no 
> ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, 
> but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
> 
>  
> 
> Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE 
> and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from 
> them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions an

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Baldur Norddahl]

Hello

Our network is connected as follows:

1) We are fully IPv6 deployed
2) We have direct peerings with Google, Apple, Microsoft, Akamai,
Cloudflare, etc
3) We have cache servers from Netflix and Akamai
4) We are peered with the route servers on NL-IX and STHIX CPH.
5) Transit from HE, Cogent, GlobalConnect.

I am not doing anything to force traffic to the Cogent link (why would I?).
But I am not doing anything to force it off either.

The nice people at Cogent will regularly call me and ask if I want to buy
more transit. However I can not make their network deliver more traffic. I
only fully control the outbound and that is a small fraction of our inbound.

I understand that measured by "AS rank" Cogent might have more, but that
does not translate to traffic in our case.  This got to be a problem for
them.

Regards,

Baldur






On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 2:41 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I guess first thing's first...  you aren't doing anything to force the
> traffic that way, are you?
>
> If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming
> over that Cogent.  :-)
>
> CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
>
> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core
> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
>
> Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the
> most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai,
> Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's
> where your traffic will come from.
>
> Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that
> you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
>
> What do your netflows say?
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" 
> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>
> Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps
> peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is
> inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of
> our inbound.
>
> Regards.
>
> Baldur
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender  wrote:
>
>> We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They
>> are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix
>> them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing
>>> this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get
>>> other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
>>>
>>> On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a
>>> good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers:
>>> http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some
>>> markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
>>>
>>> On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the
>>> lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a
>>> different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my
>>> traffic from there.
>>>
>>> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an
>>> increase in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc.
>>> in addition to the normal calls..
>>>
>>> On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender  wrote:
>>>
>>> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I
>>> wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another
>>> email...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Ross Tajvar]

Bear in mind that many orgs will prefer their cheapest link for outbound,
and I'm pretty sure HE is cheaper than Cogent. Someone else's outbound
traffic going through HE means your inbound traffic coming through HE.

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 1:19 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I didn't explicitly refer to outbound routing in my post, but maybe this
> is a tangent.
>
>
> The outbound routing is a major factor in CDNs like Cloudflare that are
> anycasted and serve from the same node the request is received on. For
> other CDNs, your outbound routing strategy will have a lesser impact.
>
>
> I intentionally didn't get technical with my response because "closer"
> could mean many things, depending on routing configurations, IX
> connections, CDN magic sauce, etc.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Aaron1" 
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
> *Cc: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 11:51:53 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>
> If he only uses a default route then his outbound routing won’t have
> anything to do with what destinations are closer, etc
>
> Aaron
>
> On Oct 21, 2018, at 7:39 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> I guess first thing's first...  you aren't doing anything to force the
> traffic that way, are you?
>
> If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming
> over that Cogent.  :-)
>
> CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
>
> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core
> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
>
> Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the
> most is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai,
> Cloudflare, etc. are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's
> where your traffic will come from.
>
> Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that
> you're on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
>
> What do your netflows say?
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Baldur Norddahl" 
> *To: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>
> Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps
> peak from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is
> inbound traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of
> our inbound.
>
> Regards.
>
> Baldur
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender  wrote:
>
>> We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They
>> are smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix
>> them, you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing
>>> this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get
>>> other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
>>>
>>> On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a
>>> good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers:
>>> http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from the

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Mike Hammett]

I didn't explicitly refer to outbound routing in my post, but maybe this is a 
tangent. 


The outbound routing is a major factor in CDNs like Cloudflare that are 
anycasted and serve from the same node the request is received on. For other 
CDNs, your outbound routing strategy will have a lesser impact. 


I intentionally didn't get technical with my response because "closer" could 
mean many things, depending on routing configurations, IX connections, CDN 
magic sauce, etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Aaron1"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 11:51:53 AM 
Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent 



If he only uses a default route then his outbound routing won’t have anything 
to do with what destinations are closer, etc 


Aaron 

On Oct 21, 2018, at 7:39 AM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic 
that way, are you? 

If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over 
that Cogent. :-) 

CAIDA says Cogent is bigger. 

http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core 
http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core 


Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is 
where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are 
located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will 
come from. 

Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're 
on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix. 

What do your netflows say? 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Baldur Norddahl" < baldur.nordd...@gmail.com > 
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM 
Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent 


Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from 
our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We 
are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound. 


Regards. 


Baldur 




On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender < do...@telecurve.com > wrote: 



We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are 
smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you 
also get the personal touch which you don't get with others. 




On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas < edu...@unknowndevice.ca > wrote: 



I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for 
years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit 
providers to get to a given network is really bad. 

On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good 
netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net . 
I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only 
affordable IP transit providers. 



On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb < daknob@gmail.com > wrote: 






When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely 
cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different 
provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from 
there. 



About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in 
salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to 
the normal calls.. 


On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender < do...@telecurve.com > wrote: 





They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't 
interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email... 





On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By < cb.li...@gmail.com > wrote: 








On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com > 
wrote: 




Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no 
ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but 
otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable. 






Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and 
Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, 
is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer 
first, or even create such an illusion. 












From: NANOG < nanog-boun...@nanog.org > on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < 
rya...@atwgpc.net > 
Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM 
To: NANOG < nanog@nanog.org > 
Subject: Whats going on at Cogent 






Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at 
Cogent the last few months? Is there something 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Aaron1]

If he only uses a default route then his outbound routing won’t have anything 
to do with what destinations are closer, etc

Aaron

> On Oct 21, 2018, at 7:39 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> I guess first thing's first...  you aren't doing anything to force the 
> traffic that way, are you?
> 
> If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over 
> that Cogent.  :-)
> 
> CAIDA says Cogent is bigger.
> 
> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core
> http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core
> 
> Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most 
> is where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. 
> are located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic 
> will come from.
> 
> Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're 
> on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix.
> 
> What do your netflows say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> From: "Baldur Norddahl" 
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
> 
> Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak 
> from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound 
> traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Baldur
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender  wrote:
>> We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are 
>> smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, 
>> you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas  
>>> wrote:
>>> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this 
>>> for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other 
>>> transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
>>> 
>>> On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good 
>>> netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: 
>>> http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some 
>>> markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
>>> 
>>> On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the 
>>> lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a 
>>> different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my 
>>> traffic from there.
>>> 
>>> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase 
>>> in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in 
>>> addition to the normal calls..
>>> 
>>> On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender  wrote:
>>> 
>>> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I 
>>> wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another 
>>> email...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no 
>>> ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, 
>>> but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing 
>>> HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route 
>>> from them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions and dont put 
>>> the customer first, or even create such an illusion. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: NANOG  on behalf of Ryan Gelobter 
>>> 
>>> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
>>> To: NANOG 
>>> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent
>>>  
>>> Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people 
>>> at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there 
>>> internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but 
>>> in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to 
>>> have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
>>>  
>>> Regards,
>>> Ryan
> 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Josh Luthman]

Portal takes a good long time for me to log in (I just got a circuit in the
last week) but after ~30 seconds to log in, it seems pretty responsive.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:54 PM, Jason Canady 
wrote:

> It's been slow for quite some time now. I only find it useful for billing
> purposes.  It's a shame carriers don't have a good ticket system.
>
> Jason Canady
> Unlimited Net, LLC
> Responsive, Reliable, Secure
>
> On 10/19/18 5:47 PM, Aaron1 wrote:
>
> Yes I noticed that last week, it is very slow
>
> Aaron
>
> On Oct 19, 2018, at 4:43 PM, Ryan Gelobter 
> wrote:
>
> Has anyone else noticed their ecogent portal is super fucking slow? Back
> in the day it used to be fast
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 2:12 PM Troy Mursch  wrote:
>
>> Cogent has done well to remediate the compromised MikroTik routers on
>> their network. 3,000 IPv4 hosts were found on Aug. 25 (
>> https://twitter.com/bad_packets/status/1033256704941514752) and today,
>> only a hundred: https://censys.io/ipv4?q=%28%28%28%22CoinHive.
>> Anonymous%22%29+AND+%28MikroTik%29%29+AND+location.
>> country_code%3A+US%29+AND+autonomous_system.description.
>> raw%3A+%22COGENT-174+-+Cogent+Communications%22&
>>
>> __
>>
>> *Troy Mursch*
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:05 PM Aaron Gould  wrote:
>>
>>> I guess those bots have to sit somewhere.  I don’t know that they would
>>> be in routers as much as they would be in Microsoft Windows… so if that’s
>>> what you meant, then I see what you mean Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Niels, I like my cogent and telia internet connections… I just recall
>>> seeing more ddos on cogent then I did on my previous att, and current
>>> spectrum… telia is showing a good bit of ddos also
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let’s put it this way, I can thank Cogent and Telia for helping my get
>>> better in my ddos mitigation skills  ☺   … there’s a bright side to
>>> everything huh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Aaron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael
>>> Crapse
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:37 PM
>>> *To:* NANOG list
>>> *Subject:* Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Or he's saying that cogent has the biggest network of compromised users.
>>> Usually ipv4 only eyeball networks tend to have the most bots on net.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 19:22, Niels Bakker 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> * aar...@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
>>> >However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS...
>>> >however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive
>>> >volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my
>>> >providers ... AT and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner
>>>
>>> So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and
>>> interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you,
>>> even at times of peak utilization?
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Niels.
>>>
>>>
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Mike Hammett]

I guess first thing's first... you aren't doing anything to force the traffic 
that way, are you? 

If you've got IPv6 deployed, chances are that no Google will be coming over 
that Cogent. :-) 

CAIDA says Cogent is bigger. 

http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/174/as-core 
http://as-rank.caida.org/asns/6939/as-core 


Being an eyeball network, what's going to impact that kind of usage the most is 
where the next up connections to Netflix, Google, Akamai, Cloudflare, etc. are 
located. If they're closer via HE than Cogent, that's where your traffic will 
come from. 

Looking at your network specifically, Netflix isn't on either IX that you're 
on, so that HE traffic very well could be a majority Netflix. 

What do your netflows say? 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Baldur Norddahl"  
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 3:20:12 AM 
Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent 


Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak from 
our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound traffic. We 
are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our inbound. 


Regards. 


Baldur 




On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender < do...@telecurve.com > wrote: 



We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are 
smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them, you 
also get the personal touch which you don't get with others. 




On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas < edu...@unknowndevice.ca > wrote: 



I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for 
years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit 
providers to get to a given network is really bad. 

On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good 
netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net . 
I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only 
affordable IP transit providers. 



On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb < daknob@gmail.com > wrote: 






When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely 
cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different 
provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from 
there. 



About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in 
salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to 
the normal calls.. 


On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender < do...@telecurve.com > wrote: 





They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't 
interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email... 





On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By < cb.li...@gmail.com > wrote: 








On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard < dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com > 
wrote: 




Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no 
ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but 
otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable. 






Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE and 
Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from them, 
is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the customer 
first, or even create such an illusion. 












From: NANOG < nanog-boun...@nanog.org > on behalf of Ryan Gelobter < 
rya...@atwgpc.net > 
Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM 
To: NANOG < nanog@nanog.org > 
Subject: Whats going on at Cogent 






Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at 
Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? 
I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their 
account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the 
last 12 months really bad. 



Regards, 

Ryan 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Baldur Norddahl]

Is he.net smaller than Cogent? Over the past 24 hours we had 6.7 Gbps peak
from our HE link and 336 Mbps peak from our Cogent link. This is inbound
traffic. We are eyeballs and our outbound is a small fraction of our
inbound.

Regards.

Baldur


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:17 PM Dovid Bender  wrote:

> We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are
> smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them,
> you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing
>> this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get
>> other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
>>
>> On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a
>> good netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers:
>> http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some
>> markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
>>
>> On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the
>> lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a
>> different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my
>> traffic from there.
>>
>> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase
>> in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in
>> addition to the normal calls..
>>
>> On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender  wrote:
>>
>> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I
>> wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another
>> email...
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <
>> dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
>>
>> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has
>> no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing
>> circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been
>> stable.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing
>> HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route
>> from them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions and dont put
>> the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *NANOG  on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <
>> rya...@atwgpc.net>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
>> *To: *NANOG 
>> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
>>
>> Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account
>> people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over
>> there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap
>> but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems
>> to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Aaron1]

ecogent looking glass tools are helpful 

Aaron

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 9:54 PM, Jason Canady  wrote:
> 
> It's been slow for quite some time now. I only find it useful for billing 
> purposes.  It's a shame carriers don't have a good ticket system.
> 
> Jason Canady
> Unlimited Net, LLC
> Responsive, Reliable, Secure
>> On 10/19/18 5:47 PM, Aaron1 wrote:
>> Yes I noticed that last week, it is very slow
>> 
>> Aaron
>> 
>> On Oct 19, 2018, at 4:43 PM, Ryan Gelobter  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Has anyone else noticed their ecogent portal is super fucking slow? Back in 
>>> the day it used to be fast
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 2:12 PM Troy Mursch  wrote:
>>>> Cogent has done well to remediate the compromised MikroTik routers on 
>>>> their network. 3,000 IPv4 hosts were found on Aug. 25 
>>>> (https://twitter.com/bad_packets/status/1033256704941514752) and today, 
>>>> only a hundred: 
>>>> https://censys.io/ipv4?q=%28%28%28%22CoinHive.Anonymous%22%29+AND+%28MikroTik%29%29+AND+location.country_code%3A+US%29+AND+autonomous_system.description.raw%3A+%22COGENT-174+-+Cogent+Communications%22;
>>>> __
>>>> 
>>>> Troy Mursch
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:05 PM Aaron Gould 
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>> I guess those bots have to sit somewhere.  I don’t know that they would 
>>>>> be in routers as much as they would be in Microsoft Windows… so if that’s 
>>>>> what you meant, then I see what you mean Michael
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Niels, I like my cogent and telia internet connections… I just recall 
>>>>> seeing more ddos on cogent then I did on my previous att, and current 
>>>>> spectrum… telia is showing a good bit of ddos also
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let’s put it this way, I can thank Cogent and Telia for helping my get 
>>>>> better in my ddos mitigation skills  ☺   … there’s a bright side to 
>>>>> everything huh
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aaron
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Michael Crapse
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:37 PM
>>>>> To: NANOG list
>>>>> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Or he's saying that cogent has the biggest network of compromised users. 
>>>>> Usually ipv4 only eyeball networks tend to have the most bots on net.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 19:22, Niels Bakker  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> * aar...@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
>>>>> >However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS...
>>>>> >however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive 
>>>>> >volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my 
>>>>> >providers ... AT and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner
>>>>> 
>>>>> So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and 
>>>>> interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you, 
>>>>> even at times of peak utilization?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- Niels.
>>>>> 
> 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Jason Canady]

It's been slow for quite some time now. I only find it useful for 
billing purposes.  It's a shame carriers don't have a good ticket system.


Jason Canady
Unlimited Net, LLC
Responsive, Reliable, Secure

On 10/19/18 5:47 PM, Aaron1 wrote:

Yes I noticed that last week, it is very slow

Aaron

On Oct 19, 2018, at 4:43 PM, Ryan Gelobter 
<mailto:rya...@andthenwegotpaycuts.com>> wrote:


Has anyone else noticed their ecogent portal is super fucking slow? 
Back in the day it used to be fast


On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 2:12 PM Troy Mursch <mailto:t...@wolvtech.com>> wrote:


Cogent has done well to remediate the compromised MikroTik
routers on their network. 3,000 IPv4 hosts were found on Aug. 25
(https://twitter.com/bad_packets/status/1033256704941514752) and
today, only a hundred:

https://censys.io/ipv4?q=%28%28%28%22CoinHive.Anonymous%22%29+AND+%28MikroTik%29%29+AND+location.country_code%3A+US%29+AND+autonomous_system.description.raw%3A+%22COGENT-174+-+Cogent+Communications%22;

__

*Troy Mursch*



On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:05 PM Aaron Gould mailto:aar...@gvtc.com>> wrote:

I guess those bots have to sit somewhere.  I don’t know that
they would be in routers as much as they would be in
Microsoft Windows… so if that’s what you meant, then I see
what you mean Michael

Niels, I like my cogent and telia internet connections… I
just recall seeing more ddos on cogent then I did on my
previous att, and current spectrum… telia is showing a good
bit of ddos also

Let’s put it this way, I can thank Cogent and Telia for
helping my get better in my ddos mitigation skills ☺… there’s
a bright side to everything huh

Aaron

*From:*NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org
<mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org>] *On Behalf Of *Michael Crapse
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:37 PM
*To:* NANOG list
*Subject:* Re: Whats going on at Cogent

Or he's saying that cogent has the biggest network of
compromised users. Usually ipv4 only eyeball networks tend to
have the most bots on net.

On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 19:22, Niels Bakker
mailto:na...@bakker.net>> wrote:

* aar...@gvtc.com <mailto:aar...@gvtc.com> (Aaron1) [Wed
17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
>However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to
DDOS...
>however Telia might be catching up... in times past when
I receive
>volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest
on my
>providers ... AT and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner

So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best
backbones and
interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic
to you,
even at times of peak utilization?


        -- Niels.

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Aaron1]

Yes I noticed that last week, it is very slow

Aaron

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 4:43 PM, Ryan Gelobter  
> wrote:
> 
> Has anyone else noticed their ecogent portal is super fucking slow? Back in 
> the day it used to be fast
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 2:12 PM Troy Mursch  wrote:
>> Cogent has done well to remediate the compromised MikroTik routers on their 
>> network. 3,000 IPv4 hosts were found on Aug. 25 
>> (https://twitter.com/bad_packets/status/1033256704941514752) and today, only 
>> a hundred: 
>> https://censys.io/ipv4?q=%28%28%28%22CoinHive.Anonymous%22%29+AND+%28MikroTik%29%29+AND+location.country_code%3A+US%29+AND+autonomous_system.description.raw%3A+%22COGENT-174+-+Cogent+Communications%22;
>> __
>> 
>> Troy Mursch
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:05 PM Aaron Gould  wrote:
>>> I guess those bots have to sit somewhere.  I don’t know that they would be 
>>> in routers as much as they would be in Microsoft Windows… so if that’s what 
>>> you meant, then I see what you mean Michael
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Niels, I like my cogent and telia internet connections… I just recall 
>>> seeing more ddos on cogent then I did on my previous att, and current 
>>> spectrum… telia is showing a good bit of ddos also
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Let’s put it this way, I can thank Cogent and Telia for helping my get 
>>> better in my ddos mitigation skills  J   … there’s a bright side to 
>>> everything huh
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Aaron
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Michael Crapse
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:37 PM
>>> To: NANOG list
>>> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Or he's saying that cogent has the biggest network of compromised users. 
>>> Usually ipv4 only eyeball networks tend to have the most bots on net.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 19:22, Niels Bakker  wrote:
>>> 
>>> * aar...@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
>>> >However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS...
>>> >however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive 
>>> >volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my 
>>> >providers ... AT and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner
>>> 
>>> So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and 
>>> interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you, 
>>> even at times of peak utilization?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Niels.

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Troy Mursch]

Cogent has done well to remediate the compromised MikroTik routers on their
network. 3,000 IPv4 hosts were found on Aug. 25 (
https://twitter.com/bad_packets/status/1033256704941514752) and today, only
a hundred:
https://censys.io/ipv4?q=%28%28%28%22CoinHive.Anonymous%22%29+AND+%28MikroTik%29%29+AND+location.country_code%3A+US%29+AND+autonomous_system.description.raw%3A+%22COGENT-174+-+Cogent+Communications%22;

__

*Troy Mursch*


On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:05 PM Aaron Gould  wrote:

> I guess those bots have to sit somewhere.  I don’t know that they would be
> in routers as much as they would be in Microsoft Windows… so if that’s what
> you meant, then I see what you mean Michael
>
>
>
> Niels, I like my cogent and telia internet connections… I just recall
> seeing more ddos on cogent then I did on my previous att, and current
> spectrum… telia is showing a good bit of ddos also
>
>
>
> Let’s put it this way, I can thank Cogent and Telia for helping my get
> better in my ddos mitigation skills  J   … there’s a bright side to
> everything huh
>
>
>
> Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael
> Crapse
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:37 PM
> *To:* NANOG list
> *Subject:* Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>
>
>
> Or he's saying that cogent has the biggest network of compromised users.
> Usually ipv4 only eyeball networks tend to have the most bots on net.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 19:22, Niels Bakker  wrote:
>
> * aar...@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
> >However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS...
> >however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive
> >volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my
> >providers ... AT and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner
>
> So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and
> interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you,
> even at times of peak utilization?
>
>
> -- Niels.
>
>

RE: Whats going on at Cogent

[Aaron Gould]

I guess those bots have to sit somewhere.  I don’t know that they would be in 
routers as much as they would be in Microsoft Windows… so if that’s what you 
meant, then I see what you mean Michael

 

Niels, I like my cogent and telia internet connections… I just recall seeing 
more ddos on cogent then I did on my previous att, and current spectrum… telia 
is showing a good bit of ddos also 

 

Let’s put it this way, I can thank Cogent and Telia for helping my get better 
in my ddos mitigation skills  J   … there’s a bright side to everything huh

 

Aaron

 

 

 

From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Michael Crapse
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:37 PM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent

 

Or he's saying that cogent has the biggest network of compromised users. 
Usually ipv4 only eyeball networks tend to have the most bots on net.

 

 

On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 19:22, Niels Bakker  wrote:

* aar...@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
>However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS...
>however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive 
>volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my 
>providers ... AT and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner

So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and 
interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you, 
even at times of peak utilization?


-- Niels.

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Michael Crapse]

Or he's saying that cogent has the biggest network of compromised users.
Usually ipv4 only eyeball networks tend to have the most bots on net.


On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 at 19:22, Niels Bakker  wrote:

> * aar...@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:
> >However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS...
> >however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive
> >volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my
> >providers ... AT and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner
>
> So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and
> interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you,
> even at times of peak utilization?
>
>
> -- Niels.
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Niels Bakker]

* aar...@gvtc.com (Aaron1) [Wed 17 Oct 2018, 00:17 CEST]:

However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS...
however Telia might be catching up... in times past when I receive 
volumetric DDOS, Cogent typically ranks with the highest on my 
providers ... AT and spectrum seem to be a bit cleaner


So you're saying, Cogent and Telia have the best backbones and 
interconnects and thus deliver the most of your traffic to you, 
even at times of peak utilization?



-- Niels.

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Ben Cannon]

But their support daily. They blamed the DC, our suite, the MMR, all in that 
order. Don’t let them, it was Mia-parched at their core router...

-Ben

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 4:51 PM, Matt Perkins  wrote:
> 
> Oh that's disturbing . We just signed up a few months ago for a circuit at an 
> MMR and are still waiting for delivery.
> 
> Matt.
> 
> 
>> On 17/10/18 10:23 am, Ben Cannon wrote:
>> Oh how funny I’m working on a billing issue with them for a circuit they 
>> turned up but didn’t connect to the MMR for 2 months...
>> 
>> 
>> -Ben
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Matt Erculiani  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Speaking of Cogent service (and I know you guys are watching), I'd love
>>> to get someone's help off-list turning up a p2p that has been moved to
>>> billing despite being told loud and clear it doesn't work. I
>>> half-expected it to not work when I found out there was a type 2
>>> provider involved, but I definitely did not expect to be billed for
>>> it...
>>> 
>>> -Matt
>>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and 
>>>> others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>> 
>>>> Midwest-IX
>>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: "Daniel Corbe" 
>>>> To: "DaKnOb" 
>>>> Cc: "NANOG" 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>>>> 
>>>> at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one
>>>>> unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)
>>>> Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option
>>>> for getting to other Cogent customers.  It’s not really hard to design
>>>> around their shortcomings.   I’d rather have 30 small links and be
>>>> well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to
>>>> peer.
>>>> 
>>>> I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d
>>>> ever trust with my backbone.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
> 
> -- 
> /* Matt Perkins
>Direct 1300 137 379Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
>Office 1300 133 299m...@spectrum.com.au
>   Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000
>Spectrum Networks is a member of the Communications Alliance & TIO
> */
> 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Matt Perkins]

Oh that's disturbing . We just signed up a few months ago for a circuit 
at an MMR and are still waiting for delivery.


Matt.


On 17/10/18 10:23 am, Ben Cannon wrote:

Oh how funny I’m working on a billing issue with them for a circuit they turned 
up but didn’t connect to the MMR for 2 months...


-Ben


On Oct 16, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Matt Erculiani  wrote:

Speaking of Cogent service (and I know you guys are watching), I'd love
to get someone's help off-list turning up a p2p that has been moved to
billing despite being told loud and clear it doesn't work. I
half-expected it to not work when I found out there was a type 2
provider involved, but I definitely did not expect to be billed for
it...

-Matt

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and 
others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com


From: "Daniel Corbe" 
To: "DaKnOb" 
Cc: "NANOG" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM
Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent

at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb  wrote:


I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one
unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)

Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option
for getting to other Cogent customers.  It’s not really hard to design
around their shortcomings.   I’d rather have 30 small links and be
well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to
peer.

I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d
ever trust with my backbone.






--
/* Matt Perkins
Direct 1300 137 379Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
Office 1300 133 299m...@spectrum.com.au
   Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000
Spectrum Networks is a member of the Communications Alliance & TIO
*/

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Ben Cannon]

Oh how funny I’m working on a billing issue with them for a circuit they turned 
up but didn’t connect to the MMR for 2 months...


-Ben

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Matt Erculiani  wrote:
> 
> Speaking of Cogent service (and I know you guys are watching), I'd love
> to get someone's help off-list turning up a p2p that has been moved to
> billing despite being told loud and clear it doesn't work. I
> half-expected it to not work when I found out there was a type 2
> provider involved, but I definitely did not expect to be billed for
> it...
> 
> -Matt
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> 
>> Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and 
>> others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>> 
>> Midwest-IX
>> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>> 
>> ____
>> From: "Daniel Corbe" 
>> To: "DaKnOb" 
>> Cc: "NANOG" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM
>> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>> 
>> at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb  wrote:
>> 
>>> I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one
>>> unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)
>> 
>> Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option
>> for getting to other Cogent customers.  It’s not really hard to design
>> around their shortcomings.   I’d rather have 30 small links and be
>> well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to
>> peer.
>> 
>> I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d
>> ever trust with my backbone.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Matt Erculiani]

Speaking of Cogent service (and I know you guys are watching), I'd love
to get someone's help off-list turning up a p2p that has been moved to
billing despite being told loud and clear it doesn't work. I
half-expected it to not work when I found out there was a type 2
provider involved, but I definitely did not expect to be billed for
it...

-Matt
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:09 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and 
> others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> 
> From: "Daniel Corbe" 
> To: "DaKnOb" 
> Cc: "NANOG" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>
> at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb  wrote:
>
> > I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one
> > unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)
>
> Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option
> for getting to other Cogent customers.  It’s not really hard to design
> around their shortcomings.   I’d rather have 30 small links and be
> well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to
> peer.
>
> I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d
> ever trust with my backbone.
>
>
>
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Aaron1]

As an eyeball network operator, Cogent has served me well for several years, I 
can say that they are probably the easiest and most relaxed and most accessible 
to work with from my experience compared to my other providers, I’m comparing 
to 3 other well-known providers

It seems like when I call Cogent the person that answers the phone is the 
person that solves my problem, other providers I have to go through multiple 
layers of people to get to someone who knows how to do what I need them to do

Cogent has typically been the cheapest also

However Cogent seems to be the dirtiest in regards to DDOS...  however Telia 
might be catching up... in times past when I receive volumetric DDOS, Cogent 
typically ranks with the highest on my providers ... AT and spectrum seem to 
be a bit cleaner

I also have the long-standing v6 google issue

So yeah, pros and cons, but that’s true about most things, pros and cons 

Aaron

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 12:08 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and 
> others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
> 
> From: "Daniel Corbe" 
> To: "DaKnOb" 
> Cc: "NANOG" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
> 
> at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb  wrote:
> 
> > I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one  
> > unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)
> 
> Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option  
> for getting to other Cogent customers.  It’s not really hard to design  
> around their shortcomings.   I’d rather have 30 small links and be  
> well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to  
> peer.
> 
> I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d  
> ever trust with my backbone.
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Mike Hammett]

Agreed. A couple IXes, Cogent, HE, and a couple others. Add more IXes and 
others as needed. Eyeballs should be fine with the above. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Daniel Corbe"  
To: "DaKnOb"  
Cc: "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44:10 AM 
Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent 

at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb  wrote: 

> I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one 
> unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-) 

Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option 
for getting to other Cogent customers. It’s not really hard to design 
around their shortcomings. I’d rather have 30 small links and be 
well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to 
peer. 

I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d 
ever trust with my backbone. 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Daniel Corbe]

at 11:34 AM, DaKnOb  wrote:

I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one  
unrelated email caused all this to happen again.. :-)


Cogent have more pain points on average but they’re still the best option  
for getting to other Cogent customers.  It’s not really hard to design  
around their shortcomings.   I’d rather have 30 small links and be  
well-connected than two large ones and be SOL because someone refuses to  
peer.


I can’t speak to their MPLS service, because cogent’s the last company I’d  
ever trust with my backbone.

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[DaKnOb]

That’s also true.. If you have a 10G connection between two DCs, and they can’t 
hash the traffic, you can only use 1/4th or 1/5th of the connection. Basically 
it is 10G but only 2G per flow. If you get transit at both places and then use 
a tunnel, which is a different service and may not satisfy all requirements, 
then you can use the full 10G, even with one flow. Otherwise you need to split 
it into 5 or more flows. 

I guess people really don’t like Cogent judging by the fact that one unrelated 
email caused all this to happen again.. :-)

> On 16 Oct 2018, at 18:01, David Hubbard  wrote:
> 
> Yeah google is the issue for us.  We provide web services and a LOT of our 
> customers have software that is making calls of various types to Google 
> services, or even just email delivery to Google hosted email; if all but a 
> Cogent transit link to a given data center were down, all of those customers’ 
> sites would begin failing at some level because the servers generally try v6 
> if the application level wasn’t explicit.  Cogent doesn’t seem to care since 
> their CEO is in some pissing match with Google.  They must be deriving enough 
> revenue from last mile v4-only turn ups that they don’t really care about 
> dual stack customers.
>  
> That being said, can’t say I’ve been impressed with their MPLS / metroE 
> offerings either.  When doing the pricing/sizing routine on a project, I 
> learned that they have an internal concept of src-dst flows on those types of 
> circuits, and if they can’t see your labels, or otherwise hash the traffic, 
> or it all truly is point to point, you may not get the full bandwidth, or may 
> need to buy a capacity larger than what the flow will be.
>  
> From: NANOG  on behalf of DaKnOb 
> 
> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 10:06 AM
> To: Dovid Bender 
> Cc: NANOG 
> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>  
> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely 
> cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different 
> provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic 
> from there.
>  
> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in 
> salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to 
> the normal calls..
> 
> On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender  wrote:
> 
> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't 
> interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email...
>  
>  
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  wrote:
>  
>  
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard  
> wrote:
> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no 
> ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, 
> but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
>  
>  
> Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE 
> and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from 
> them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the 
> customer first, or even create such an illusion. 
>  
>  
> From: NANOG  on behalf of Ryan Gelobter 
> 
> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
> To: NANOG 
> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent
>  
> Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people 
> at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there 
> internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in 
> the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have 
> gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
>  
> Regards,
> Ryan
>  

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[David Hubbard]

Yeah google is the issue for us.  We provide web services and a LOT of our 
customers have software that is making calls of various types to Google 
services, or even just email delivery to Google hosted email; if all but a 
Cogent transit link to a given data center were down, all of those customers’ 
sites would begin failing at some level because the servers generally try v6 if 
the application level wasn’t explicit.  Cogent doesn’t seem to care since their 
CEO is in some pissing match with Google.  They must be deriving enough revenue 
from last mile v4-only turn ups that they don’t really care about dual stack 
customers.

That being said, can’t say I’ve been impressed with their MPLS / metroE 
offerings either.  When doing the pricing/sizing routine on a project, I 
learned that they have an internal concept of src-dst flows on those types of 
circuits, and if they can’t see your labels, or otherwise hash the traffic, or 
it all truly is point to point, you may not get the full bandwidth, or may need 
to buy a capacity larger than what the flow will be.

From: NANOG  on behalf of DaKnOb 
Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 10:06 AM
To: Dovid Bender 
Cc: NANOG 
Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent

When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely 
cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different 
provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from 
there.

About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in 
salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to 
the normal calls..

On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender 
mailto:do...@telecurve.com>> wrote:
They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't 
interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email...


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By 
mailto:cb.li...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard 
mailto:dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com>> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no 
ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but 
otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.


Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE 
and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from 
them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the 
customer first, or even create such an illusion.


From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org>> on behalf 
of Ryan Gelobter mailto:rya...@atwgpc.net>>
Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
To: NANOG mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Whats going on at Cogent

Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at 
Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? 
I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their 
account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the 
last 12 months really bad.

Regards,
Ryan

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Jared Mauch]

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Walt  wrote:
> 
> HE is happy to peer with Cogent and would love to solve this issue.
> 
> Thanks
> 

As someone who really depends upon full internet access I can’t purchase from 
either supplier due to this.  This mirrors what Ca By said, need a place where 
there’s full reachability.  

I would factor that into your purchases/network design. 

You can design around this, but it also may be too much effort.

- Jared

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Josh Luthman]

I'm in the process of turning up a Cogent circuit in Cologix (Columbus) and
hope to be finished in the next week or so.  So far my experience has been
great.

The only thing I didn't like was the monthly sales call asking me to sign
the contract, reminding me they are available.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Walt  wrote:

> HE is happy to peer with Cogent and would love to solve this issue.
>
> Thanks
>
> Walt
>
> From: NANOG  on behalf of DaKnOb <
> daknob@gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 7:04 AM
> To: Dovid Bender 
> Cc: NANOG 
> Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent
>
> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the
> lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a
> different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my
> traffic from there.
>
> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase
> in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in
> addition to the normal calls..
>
> On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender  wrote:
>
> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I
> wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another
> email...
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <
>> dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has
>>> no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing
>>> circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been
>>> stable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing
>> HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route
>> from them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions and dont put
>> the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
>>
>>
>> *From: *NANOG  on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <
>>> rya...@atwgpc.net>
>>> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
>>> *To: *NANOG 
>>> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account
>>> people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over
>>> there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap
>>> but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems
>>> to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Walt]

HE is happy to peer with Cogent and would love to solve this issue.

Thanks

Walt

From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org>> on behalf 
of DaKnOb mailto:daknob@gmail.com>>
Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 7:04 AM
To: Dovid Bender mailto:do...@telecurve.com>>
Cc: NANOG mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Re: Whats going on at Cogent

When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely 
cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different 
provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from 
there.

About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in 
salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to 
the normal calls..

On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender 
mailto:do...@telecurve.com>> wrote:

They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't 
interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email...


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By 
mailto:cb.li...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard 
mailto:dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com>> wrote:
Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no 
ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but 
otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.


Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE 
and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from 
them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the 
customer first, or even create such an illusion.


From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org>> on behalf 
of Ryan Gelobter mailto:rya...@atwgpc.net>>
Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
To: NANOG mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Whats going on at Cogent

Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at 
Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? 
I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their 
account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the 
last 12 months really bad.

Regards,
Ryan

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Dovid Bender]

We have been very happy with HE. It was a no brainer over cogent. They are
smaller (so are we). When there are issues they are real fast to fix them,
you also get the personal touch which you don't get with others.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Eric Dugas 
wrote:

> I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing
> this for years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get
> other transit providers to get to a given network is really bad.
>
> On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good
> netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers:
> http://routing.he.net. I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some
> markets, they're the only affordable IP transit providers.
>
> On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb  wrote:
>
>
>
> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the
> lovely cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a
> different provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my
> traffic from there.
>
> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase
> in salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in
> addition to the normal calls..
>
> On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender  wrote:
>
> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I
> wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another
> email...
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <
> dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
>
> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no
> ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits,
> but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
>
>
>
>
> Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing
> HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route
> from them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions and dont put
> the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
>
>
>
>
> *From: *NANOG  on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <
> rya...@atwgpc.net>
> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
> *To: *NANOG 
> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
>
> Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account
> people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over
> there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap
> but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems
> to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
>
> Regards,
> Ryan
>
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Eric Dugas]

I don't really get the Cogent/Google peering issues. I've been hearing this for 
years... How about fixing it already? Telling customer to get other transit 
providers to get to a given network is really bad.

On a side note, HE is still HE but they're trying really hard to be a good 
netcitizen. They've finally pushed filtering for peers: http://routing.he.net. 
I wouldn't get transit from them, but in some markets, they're the only 
affordable IP transit providers.
On Oct 16 2018, at 10:04 am, DaKnOb  wrote:
>
>
> When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely 
> cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different 
> provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic 
> from there.
>
> About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in 
> salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to 
> the normal calls..
>
> On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender  (mailto:do...@telecurve.com)> wrote:
> > They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I 
> > wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another 
> > email...
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  > (mailto:cb.li...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard 
> > > mailto:dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com)> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has 
> > > > no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing 
> > > > circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been 
> > > > stable.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yep, this. Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing 
> > > HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default 
> > > route from them, is dead on arrival. Shows they make bad decisions and 
> > > dont put the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org)> 
> > > > on behalf of Ryan Gelobter  > > > (mailto:rya...@atwgpc.net)>
> > > > Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
> > > > To: NANOG mailto:nanog@nanog.org)>
> > > > Subject: Whats going on at Cogent
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account 
> > > > people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over 
> > > > there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been 
> > > > crap but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. 
> > > > It seems to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Ryan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[DaKnOb]

When I call and mention it I’m told that it’s HE’s fault (despite the lovely 
cake), but when I also bring Google, then they tell me to get a different 
provider just for this traffic, or meet them at an IX and send my traffic from 
there.

About the staff rotation I’ve seen it too, and I’ve also seen an increase in 
salespeople calling, for example when an AS is registered etc. in addition to 
the normal calls..

> On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:54, Dovid Bender  wrote:
> 
> They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I wasn't 
> interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another email...
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no 
>>> ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, 
>>> but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
>>> 
>> 
>> Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing HE 
>> and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route from 
>> them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions and dont put the 
>> customer first, or even create such an illusion. 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: NANOG  on behalf of Ryan Gelobter 
>>> 
>>> Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
>>> To: NANOG 
>>> Subject: Whats going on at Cogent
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people 
>>> at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there 
>>> internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but 
>>> in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to 
>>> have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Ryan
>>> 
> 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Dovid Bender]

They call me every few months. the last time they emailed me I said I
wasn't interested because of the HE issue. I have yet to get another
email...


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Ca By  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard <
> dhubb...@dino.hostasaurus.com> wrote:
>
>> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has
>> no ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing
>> circuits, but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been
>> stable.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing
> HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route
> from them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions and dont put
> the customer first, or even create such an illusion.
>
>
> *From: *NANOG  on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <
>> rya...@atwgpc.net>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
>> *To: *NANOG 
>> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account
>> people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over
>> there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap
>> but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems
>> to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Ca By]

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 5:16 AM David Hubbard 
wrote:

> Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no
> ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits,
> but otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.
>
>
>

Yep, this.  Whenever Cogent calls, this is what i tell them. Black-holing
HE and Google ipv6 traffic, which is what they do if i use a default route
from them, is dead on arrival.  Shows they make bad decisions and dont put
the customer first, or even create such an illusion.


*From: *NANOG  on behalf of Ryan Gelobter <
> rya...@atwgpc.net>
> *Date: *Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
> *To: *NANOG 
> *Subject: *Whats going on at Cogent
>
>
>
> Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account
> people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over
> there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap
> but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems
> to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ryan
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[Mike Hammett]

That's *ALWAYS* been my experience with Cogent. 

*cue e-mail from Cogent rep* 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Ryan Gelobter"  
To: "NANOG"  
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 5:02:59 AM 
Subject: Whats going on at Cogent 



Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at 
Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? 
I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their 
account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the 
last 12 months really bad. 


Regards, 
Ryan 

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[David Hubbard]

Have had the same sales rep for several years now; unfortunately he has no 
ability to fix their IPv6 peering issue so we’re slowly removing circuits, but 
otherwise for a handful of 10gig DIA circuits it’s been stable.

From: NANOG  on behalf of Ryan Gelobter 

Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 6:04 AM
To: NANOG 
Subject: Whats going on at Cogent

Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account people at 
Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over there internally? 
I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap but in the past their 
account reps and support were pretty good. It seems to have gone downhill the 
last 12 months really bad.

Regards,
Ryan

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[John Hurley]

I think I noticed this actually start a bit longer than that. Around the
time they started charging for BGP sessions and IP blocks on existing
customers. So at least a year but I think closer to two years ago.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 6:22 AM John Hurley  wrote:

> I am glad I'm not the only one. I've noticed similar. Just when I get used
> to one rep it seems I have a new one.
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 6:04 AM Ryan Gelobter  wrote:
>
>> Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account
>> people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over
>> there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap
>> but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems
>> to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ryan
>>
>

Re: Whats going on at Cogent

[John Hurley]

I am glad I'm not the only one. I've noticed similar. Just when I get used
to one rep it seems I have a new one.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 6:04 AM Ryan Gelobter  wrote:

> Anyone else seen terrible support and high turnover of sales/account
> people at Cogent the last few months? Is there something going on over
> there internally? I'm sure some people will say Cogent has always been crap
> but in the past their account reps and support were pretty good. It seems
> to have gone downhill the last 12 months really bad.
>
> Regards,
> Ryan
>