Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[owen--- via NANOG]

> On Nov 16, 2023, at 21:57, Ryan Hamel  wrote:
> 
> Christopher,
> 
> A residential customer would be getting their /56 from the providers pool via 
> RA or DHCPv6. With a /32 aggregate, it can handle 1.6 million /56 
> delegations, which can cover a few regions. It all depends on the planning 
> going into splitting up the aggregate.

Or, if the provider isn’t stingy a /48 from the providers /≤32 (providers can 
get as many /48s as they need to support whatever number of customers receiving 
them, at least in the ARIN region).

> A rule of thumb I go by in the datacenter is, a /48 per customer per site, 
> and further splitting it into /64s per VLAN, all of which can be plugged into 
> a spreadsheet formula to produce a valid complete subnet.
> 
> Either way, keeping track of IPAM via spreadsheet is a recipe for disaster. 
> NetBox and Nautobot are my choices, and is worth deploying on a server or 
> VPS, even for home labs.

On this, we agree.

It’s just not what spreadsheets do.

Owen

> 
> Ryan
> 
> From: NANOG  on behalf of 
> Christopher Hawker 
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 3:52:59 PM
> To: Aaron Gould ; Owen DeLong 
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
> Subject: Re: ipv6 address management - documentation
> 
> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take care 
> when clicking links or opening attachments.
> 
> One of the first things that comes to mind, is that if you were to breakout a 
> /64 v6 subnet (a standard-issue subnet to a residential customer) in an Excel 
> spreadsheet, the number of columns you would need is 14 digits long. You 
> could breakout the equivalent of a /12 v4 in just one column. Understandably 
> in the real world no one (in their right mind) would do this, this is just 
> for comparison.
> 
> Regards,
> Christopher H.
> From: NANOG  on behalf of Owen 
> DeLong via NANOG 
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2023 10:39 AM
> To: Aaron Gould 
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
> Subject: Re: ipv6 address management - documentation
>  
> Spreadsheets are terrible for IPAM regardless of address length, but I am 
> curious to know why you think IPv6 would be particularly worse than IPv4 in 
> such a scenario?
> 
> Owen
> 
> 
> > On Nov 16, 2023, at 10:02, Aaron Gould  wrote:
> > 
> > For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4 addresses.  
> > IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  What does 
> > everyone use for their IPv6 address prefix management and documentation?  
> > Are there open source tools/apps for this?
> > 
> > -- 
> > -Aaron
> 
> 

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Justin Krejci]

I give +1 for phpipam



-Original Message-
From: Justin Wilson (Lists) 
mailto:%22justin%20wilson%20%28lists%29%22%20%3cli...@mtin.net%3e>>
To: NANOG mailto:nanog%20%3cna...@nanog.org%3e>>
Subject: Re: ipv6 address management - documentation
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 23:38:28 -0500

Netbox or PHPipam. Phpipam allows you to break down subnets easier IMHo.


Justin Wilson
j...@j2sw.com

—
https://j2sw.com (AS399332)
https://blog.j2sw.com - Podcast and Blog

On Nov 16, 2023, at 1:09 PM, Jason Biel  wrote:

My recommendation:

https://github.com/netbox-community


On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 12:04 PM Aaron Gould 
mailto:aar...@gvtc.com>> wrote:
For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4
addresses.  IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.
What does everyone use for their IPv6 address prefix management and
documentation?  Are there open source tools/apps for this?

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Justin Wilson (Lists)]

Netbox or PHPipam. Phpipam allows you to break down subnets easier IMHo.


Justin Wilson
j...@j2sw.com

—
https://j2sw.com (AS399332)
https://blog.j2sw.com - Podcast and Blog

> On Nov 16, 2023, at 1:09 PM, Jason Biel  wrote:
> 
> My recommendation:
> 
> https://github.com/netbox-community
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 12:04 PM Aaron Gould  > wrote:
>> For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4 
>> addresses.  IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  
>> What does everyone use for their IPv6 address prefix management and 
>> documentation?  Are there open source tools/apps for this?
>> 
>> -- 
>> -Aaron
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> Jason

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Ricardo de Barros]

try racktables, it comes with additional features that you may opt not to
use.

On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 9:14 PM Jason Biel  wrote:

> My recommendation:
>
> https://github.com/netbox-community
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 12:04 PM Aaron Gould  wrote:
>
>> For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4
>> addresses.  IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.
>> What does everyone use for their IPv6 address prefix management and
>> documentation?  Are there open source tools/apps for this?
>>
>> --
>> -Aaron
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jason
>

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Oliver O'Boyle]

I used NIPAP about seven or eight years ago. It's quite customizable and
easy enough to code against but not the easiest to work with, overall. It
has some quirks. I think I would have chosen Netbox had it been as mature
as it is now.

Oliver


On Sat, Nov 18, 2023, 3:41 p.m. JASON BOTHE via NANOG 
wrote:

> Netbox for the win! You can not only use it for IPAM but for circuit
> inventory, designs, cross connects, rack layouts and automate from there.
> It serves as a true source of truth. I think you will be pleased.
>
> > On Nov 16, 2023, at 15:03, Aaron Gould  wrote:
> >
> > For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4
> addresses.  IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  What
> does everyone use for their IPv6 address prefix management and
> documentation?  Are there open source tools/apps for this?
> >
> > --
> > -Aaron
> >
>

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[JASON BOTHE via NANOG]

Netbox for the win! You can not only use it for IPAM but for circuit inventory, 
designs, cross connects, rack layouts and automate from there. It serves as a 
true source of truth. I think you will be pleased.  

> On Nov 16, 2023, at 15:03, Aaron Gould  wrote:
> 
> For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4 addresses.  
> IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  What does everyone 
> use for their IPv6 address prefix management and documentation?  Are there 
> open source tools/apps for this?
> 
> --
> -Aaron
> 

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Bryan Holloway]

I've also heard good things about Netbox.

TeemIP ain't too shabby either.


On 11/17/23 06:57, Ryan Hamel wrote:

Christopher,

A residential customer would be getting their /56 from the providers 
pool via RA or DHCPv6. With a /32 aggregate, it can handle 1.6 million 
/56 delegations, which can cover a few regions. It all depends on the 
planning going into splitting up the aggregate.


A rule of thumb I go by in the datacenter is, a /48 per customer per 
site, and further splitting it into /64s per VLAN, all of which can be 
plugged into a spreadsheet formula to produce a valid complete subnet.


Either way, keeping track of IPAM via spreadsheet is a recipe for 
disaster. NetBox and Nautobot are my choices, and is worth deploying on 
a server or VPS, even for home labs.


Ryan


*From:* NANOG  on behalf of 
Christopher Hawker 

*Sent:* Thursday, November 16, 2023 3:52:59 PM
*To:* Aaron Gould ; Owen DeLong 
*Cc:* nanog@nanog.org 
*Subject:* Re: ipv6 address management - documentation


Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take 
care when clicking links or opening attachments.



One of the first things that comes to mind, is that if you were to 
breakout a /64 v6 subnet (a standard-issue subnet to a residential 
customer) in an Excel spreadsheet, the number of columns you would need 
is 14 digits long. You could breakout the equivalent of a /12 v4 in just 
one column. Understandably in the real world no one (in their right 
mind) would do this, this is just for comparison.


Regards,
Christopher H.

*From:* NANOG  on behalf 
of Owen DeLong via NANOG 

*Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2023 10:39 AM
*To:* Aaron Gould 
*Cc:* nanog@nanog.org 
*Subject:* Re: ipv6 address management - documentation
Spreadsheets are terrible for IPAM regardless of address length, but I 
am curious to know why you think IPv6 would be particularly worse than 
IPv4 in such a scenario?


Owen



On Nov 16, 2023, at 10:02, Aaron Gould  wrote:

For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4 addresses.  IPv6 
is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  What does everyone use 
for their IPv6 address prefix management and documentation?  Are there open 
source tools/apps for this?

--
-Aaron

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Gaurav Kansal via NANOG]

I will second this.
Netbox is very rich and we can do and manage multiple other things also in 
netbox.
Like I am managing my complete server infra details and my service connectivity 
details in netbox.
Kudos to the developer and the netbox community.

Regards,
Gaurav Kansal


> On 16-Nov-2023, at 23:39, ja...@biel-tech.com wrote:
> 
> My recommendation:
> 
> https://github.com/netbox-community
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 12:04 PM Aaron Gould  > wrote:
>> For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4 
>> addresses.  IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  
>> What does everyone use for their IPv6 address prefix management and 
>> documentation?  Are there open source tools/apps for this?
>> 
>> -- 
>> -Aaron
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jason

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Ryan Hamel]

Christopher,

A residential customer would be getting their /56 from the providers pool via 
RA or DHCPv6. With a /32 aggregate, it can handle 1.6 million /56 delegations, 
which can cover a few regions. It all depends on the planning going into 
splitting up the aggregate.

A rule of thumb I go by in the datacenter is, a /48 per customer per site, and 
further splitting it into /64s per VLAN, all of which can be plugged into a 
spreadsheet formula to produce a valid complete subnet.

Either way, keeping track of IPAM via spreadsheet is a recipe for disaster. 
NetBox and Nautobot are my choices, and is worth deploying on a server or VPS, 
even for home labs.

Ryan


From: NANOG  on behalf of Christopher 
Hawker 
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 3:52:59 PM
To: Aaron Gould ; Owen DeLong 
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take care when 
clicking links or opening attachments.

One of the first things that comes to mind, is that if you were to breakout a 
/64 v6 subnet (a standard-issue subnet to a residential customer) in an Excel 
spreadsheet, the number of columns you would need is 14 digits long. You could 
breakout the equivalent of a /12 v4 in just one column. Understandably in the 
real world no one (in their right mind) would do this, this is just for 
comparison.

Regards,
Christopher H.

From: NANOG  on behalf of Owen 
DeLong via NANOG 
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2023 10:39 AM
To: Aaron Gould 
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

Spreadsheets are terrible for IPAM regardless of address length, but I am 
curious to know why you think IPv6 would be particularly worse than IPv4 in 
such a scenario?

Owen


> On Nov 16, 2023, at 10:02, Aaron Gould  wrote:
>
> For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4 addresses.  
> IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  What does everyone 
> use for their IPv6 address prefix management and documentation?  Are there 
> open source tools/apps for this?
>
> --
> -Aaron

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Christopher Hawker]

One of the first things that comes to mind, is that if you were to breakout a 
/64 v6 subnet (a standard-issue subnet to a residential customer) in an Excel 
spreadsheet, the number of columns you would need is 14 digits long. You could 
breakout the equivalent of a /12 v4 in just one column. Understandably in the 
real world no one (in their right mind) would do this, this is just for 
comparison.

Regards,
Christopher H.

From: NANOG  on behalf of Owen 
DeLong via NANOG 
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2023 10:39 AM
To: Aaron Gould 
Cc: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

Spreadsheets are terrible for IPAM regardless of address length, but I am 
curious to know why you think IPv6 would be particularly worse than IPv4 in 
such a scenario?

Owen


> On Nov 16, 2023, at 10:02, Aaron Gould  wrote:
>
> For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4 addresses.  
> IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  What does everyone 
> use for their IPv6 address prefix management and documentation?  Are there 
> open source tools/apps for this?
>
> --
> -Aaron

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Owen DeLong via NANOG]

Spreadsheets are terrible for IPAM regardless of address length, but I am 
curious to know why you think IPv6 would be particularly worse than IPv4 in 
such a scenario?

Owen


> On Nov 16, 2023, at 10:02, Aaron Gould  wrote:
> 
> For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4 addresses.  
> IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  What does everyone 
> use for their IPv6 address prefix management and documentation?  Are there 
> open source tools/apps for this?
> 
> -- 
> -Aaron

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[borg]

I use my own console/terminal based stuff.
Its composed of 2 main scripts called blgrep for searching
and bldiff to display differences between revision/files.
Backend is SVN to keep stuff in sync and allow multiple people
to work on data.

Works pretty well for small/medium DC/NOC. I guess it wont scale much tho.

We used to have Excel files for those too years ago and it was madness.


-- Original message --

From: Aaron Gould 
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: ipv6 address management - documentation
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 12:02:36 -0600

For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4 addresses.  IPv6
is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  What does everyone use for
their IPv6 address prefix management and documentation?  Are there open source
tools/apps for this?

-- 
-Aaron

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Mel Beckman]

I second Netbox, which has detailed IPv4/6 IPAM plus many other features:


IP Address Management - NetBox 
Documentation
demo.netbox.dev
[favicon.png]


 -mel

On Nov 16, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Jesse DuPont  
wrote:

 phpIPAM for the win. NIPAP is effective, if basic. I've heard of lots of 
people who like Netbox.

On 11/16/23 11:12 AM, Niels Bakker wrote:
* aar...@gvtc.com (Aaron Gould) [Thu 16 Nov 2023, 19:04 
CET]:
For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4  addresses.  IPv6 
is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  What does everyone use 
for their IPv6 address prefix management and documentation?  Are there open 
source tools/apps for this?

The first three hits for "open source ipam" on a search engine are:

- phpipam.net/
- spritelink.github.io/NIPAP/
- github.com/netbox-community/netbox

I'd pick the last option, or possibly Nautobot.

You may want to scroll through https://github.com/topics/ipam for more options.


-- Niels.

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
phpIPAM for the win. NIPAP is effective, if
  basic. I've heard of lots of people who like Netbox.

On 11/16/23 11:12 AM, Niels Bakker
  wrote:

*
  aar...@gvtc.com (Aaron Gould) [Thu 16 Nov 2023, 19:04 CET]:
  
  For years I've used an MS Excel
spreadsheet to manage my IPv4  addresses.  IPv6 is going to be
maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  What does everyone use
for their IPv6 address prefix management and documentation?  Are
there open source tools/apps for this?

  
  
  The first three hits for "open source ipam" on a search engine
  are:
  
  
  - phpipam.net/
  
  - spritelink.github.io/NIPAP/
  
  - github.com/netbox-community/netbox
  
  
  I'd pick the last option, or possibly Nautobot.
  
  
  You may want to scroll through https://github.com/topics/ipam for
  more options.
  
  
  
  -- Niels.
  


  

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Niels Bakker]

* aar...@gvtc.com (Aaron Gould) [Thu 16 Nov 2023, 19:04 CET]:
For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4  
addresses.  IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a 
spreadsheet.  What does everyone use for their IPv6 address prefix 
management and documentation?  Are there open source tools/apps for 
this?


The first three hits for "open source ipam" on a search engine are:

- phpipam.net/
- spritelink.github.io/NIPAP/
- github.com/netbox-community/netbox

I'd pick the last option, or possibly Nautobot.

You may want to scroll through https://github.com/topics/ipam for more 
options.



-- Niels.

Re: ipv6 address management - documentation

[Jason Biel]

My recommendation:

https://github.com/netbox-community


On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 12:04 PM Aaron Gould  wrote:

> For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4
> addresses.  IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.
> What does everyone use for their IPv6 address prefix management and
> documentation?  Are there open source tools/apps for this?
>
> --
> -Aaron
>
>

-- 
Jason

ipv6 address management - documentation

[Aaron Gould]

For years I've used an MS Excel spreadsheet to manage my IPv4 
addresses.  IPv6 is going to be maddening to manage in a spreadsheet.  
What does everyone use for their IPv6 address prefix management and 
documentation?  Are there open source tools/apps for this?


--
-Aaron