Re: [neonixie-l] Re: CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello!

It looks like I was in a Mistake with the datasheet of the crystal,
thinking that the 6.0 to 12.5 pf capacitors would be perfect for the time
running perfect, But with this configuration, I have like 2 mins of delay
in 24H.

I really appreciate the help, Just took a quick look and you are right,
22-27Pf and 220K ohm seems that is going to fix the delay I have.

I will have a good reading of the links you added, will try, and will let
you know.

Thanks a lot!

El lun, 19 jul 2021 a las 1:24, gregebert ()
escribió:

> It is gaining time, or losing time ?
>
> If it's losing time, could it be caused by execution delays in your
> software ? I've seen some really bizarre things happening with my Raspberry
> Pi based clocks because of the chaotic behavior of Linux, and I have even
> seen metastability-related failures due to the way I had software scanning
> hardware for asynchronous events. They are fixable, but they definitely
> challenge your debugging skills.
>
> BTW, the last time I saw such a thing was *yesterday*I'm testing my
> RZ568m tubes for a new clock, and saw my time jump by 2 seconds, instead of
> the usual 1 second, because of the way in which I update the displayed
> time. These are often subtle bugs you dont catch while typing-in your code.
>
> On Sunday, July 18, 2021 at 12:19:21 PM UTC-7 Dekatron42 wrote:
>
>> The capacitance you cite from the datasheet is not the recommended
>> capacitance for the external capacitors, it is the load capacitance of the
>> crystal - you must check your ordering document to see which crystal you
>> got unless you can read the information on the crystal itself if it is
>> laser printed there. The load capacitance can then be used to calculate
>> what capacitance value you need for the two other capacitors - do a quick
>> test with two 22pF or 27pF capacitors if you have the crystal with CL =
>> 12.5pF - twice the load capacitance from the formula in the application
>> note: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/91097a.pdf is
>> usually a good start, so if you have a lower CL value use twice that for
>> tests.
>>
>> Neither is the series resistance in the datasheet the value you need for
>> the external resistor, it is the internal resistance of the crystal itself.
>> You should use the value in the application note to start with, 220k - it
>> might be that you have damaged the small crystal by over driving it if you
>> used a lower value, it is explained in the application note why you need to
>> protect the crystal from over driving. You can read some on series
>> resistance and crystal selection here:
>> https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/tutorials/7/726.html
>> . The datasheets and product documentation found on the manufacturer
>> website:
>> https://www.microcrystal.com/en/products/khz-quartz-crystals/ms3v-t1r/
>> and
>> https://www.microcrystal.com/en/products/khz-quartz-crystals/ms1v-t1k/
>> do contain the equivalent circuit for the crystal similar to the one above.
>>
>> So try with twice the load capacitance for both capacitors and use the
>> recommended 220k resistor as in the application note and see how it behaves
>> - also use the pins recommended in the application note, ie CLKIN & CLKOUT.
>>
>> /Martin
>> On Sunday, 18 July 2021 at 20:53:32 UTC+2 MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Again group!
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been testing this for a while, and I still have some delay minutes.
>>> This is the PCB design I'm using and components.
>>>
>>> *Components: *
>>> ·PIC16F1936
>>> ·CRYSTAL MS3V-T1R CRYSTAL 32.768 Khz.
>>> ·Capacitors ( used 6.0 ; 7.0 ; 9.0 & 12.5) pF as datasheet from crystal
>>> recommend.
>>> ·Resistor value between 50/65 K ohm.
>>>
>>> *PCB Design: *
>>>
>>> This design is done following the document you guys added called:
>>> Microship TB097 which give's good instructions on how install Crystals to
>>> our pics.
>>>
>>>
>>> Guys, My head is gonna explote because I don't find the problem that is
>>> making minutes delays in 24H (About 3 mins per 24H).
>>>
>>> I'm questioning two fact's that can be making this delay:
>>>
>>> *1.* Pins connections between Crystal + Pic. In some other designs,
>>> crystal is attached to other pins. For example.
>>>
>>> Example A) Crystal pins connected to *PIN 9: A7/CLKIN* & *PIN 10:
>>> A6/CLKOUT.*
>>>
>>> Example B) Crystal pins connected to *PIN 11: RC0/T1OSO *&
>>> *PIN 12: RC1/T1OSI. *
>>>
&g

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello Again group! 


I've been testing this for a while, and I still have some delay minutes. 
This is the PCB design I'm using and components.

*Components: *
·PIC16F1936 
·CRYSTAL MS3V-T1R CRYSTAL 32.768 Khz. 
·Capacitors ( used 6.0 ; 7.0 ; 9.0 & 12.5) pF as datasheet from crystal 
recommend.
·Resistor value between 50/65 K ohm. 

*PCB Design: *

This design is done following the document you guys added called:  
Microship TB097 which give's good instructions on how install Crystals to 
our pics. 


Guys, My head is gonna explote because I don't find the problem that is 
making minutes delays in 24H (About 3 mins per 24H).

I'm questioning two fact's that can be making this delay:

*1.* Pins connections between Crystal + Pic. In some other designs, crystal 
is attached to other pins. For example.

Example A) Crystal pins connected to *PIN 9: A7/CLKIN* & *PIN 10: 
A6/CLKOUT.*

Example B) Crystal pins connected to *PIN 11: RC0/T1OSO *& 
*PIN 12: RC1/T1OSI. *

this make's me think that I'm connectin the crystal to wrong pins? what's 
the difference between them? 

*2*. Maybe I need to try better with other cap values? 

*3.* Software getting the count wrong? 

Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate your time and help.

Christopher..





El jueves, 20 de mayo de 2021 a las 21:09:01 UTC+2, Dekatron42 escribió:

> Since this is a Tuning Fork type of crystal they are sensitive to to much 
> energy and might become damaged if you use them incorrectly. You should 
> read this article: 
> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/91097a.pdf and also read 
> the Microchip application note above that Bill van Dijk suggested as they 
> both explain/discuss how to use this type of crystal.
>
> In this document for the PIC-processor in question: 
> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/41364e.pdf they also 
> mention the 91097a.pdf above as a document to read on page 71.
>
> /Martin
>
> On Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 20:40:49 UTC+2 MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>
>> Ei Martin! 
>>
>> I'm using PIC16F1936 (16F family!) 
>>
>> my connections are the following.
>>
>> Crystal pin 1 - RA7/OSC1/CLKIN/SEG2
>> Crystal pin 2 - RA6/OSC2/CLKOUT/VCAP/SEG1
>>
>>  
>> I add you my pcb design (The old one) and the new one! 
>>
>> (OLD ONE)
>>  [image: old ddesign.png]
>>
>>
>>
>> NEW DESIGN
>> [image: new design.png]
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot! 
>>
>> El jue, 20 may 2021 a las 16:28, Dekatron42 () 
>> escribió:
>>
>>> What PIC-controller is the crystal hooked up to? Did you follow the 
>>> design specifications for using the crystal you chose?
>>>
>>> /Martin
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 16:03:55 UTC+2 jf...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> All the cheap watches and clock movements seem to use the same small 
>>>> cylindrical crystal.  I got many of mine by taking them out of old watches 
>>>> or clocks that had stopped working properly (like worn out gears in a 
>>>> clock).  If you do not already have any in your junk box, you should be 
>>>> able to buy a working one from a street vendor or flea market for under 
>>>> € 5, and probably less than € 1.  Also, new crystals will cost less 
>>>> than US$1 each (plus shipping and handling), so you could buy several and 
>>>> select the one that works the best.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 11:55:42 PM UTC-7 MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ? Any recommendations of where can I get a good quality cristal for my 
>>>>> watch?
>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "neonixie-l" group.
>>>
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>>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/b9d34649-4fef-4fe8-a44b-8544b51dee8cn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/b9d34649-4fef-4fe8-a44b-8544b51dee8cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Wow!

That's an interesting Idea too! Yes, here in Spain we have a lot of street
markets where you can find a lot of electronic waste components.

I will let you know How this works out!!

Thanks a lot for the help.


El jue, 20 may 2021 a las 16:03, jf...@my-deja.com ()
escribió:

> All the cheap watches and clock movements seem to use the same small
> cylindrical crystal.  I got many of mine by taking them out of old watches
> or clocks that had stopped working properly (like worn out gears in a
> clock).  If you do not already have any in your junk box, you should be
> able to buy a working one from a street vendor or flea market for under €
> 5, and probably less than € 1.  Also, new crystals will cost less than
> US$1 each (plus shipping and handling), so you could buy several and select
> the one that works the best.
>
> On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 11:55:42 PM UTC-7 MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>
>> ? Any recommendations of where can I get a good quality cristal for my
>> watch?
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
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> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
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> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello!

First of all I did a new design of the PCB which I added closer track
between the cristal and the PIC pins. Also changed from 0603 encapsulated
capacitors to 1206 to have a better pad for soldering.

These are the test I'm doing thanks to the nixie community and internet
research.

1. I'm trying different values of capacitors (0-12pF) to see which is the
delay in 24 hours. I still having 2-3 min delay in 24h, But I need to try
more values (Just waiting to new stock arrives)

2. I'm going to install in another design a variable cap (But this is going
to be the same test as 1 at the end) just changing values to see which gets
less delay.

3. I made another design adding an RTC to the pic, I think this is the
better way, but now I'm struggling with the pic, adding the new software
change's and the new pin declaration is gonna be a lil bit hard for me, but
I will end completing it with effort and a lot of learning and internet
research.

I will let you know when I finish this test and will let you know.

PD: The cristal I ordered has in his datasheet 12.5pf (7pf in ich
capacitor) or  (6 in ich capacitor) so that's why I'm Upgrading my pcb
design.

Best regards.

Christopher.





El mié, 19 may 2021 a las 17:07, jf...@my-deja.com ()
escribió:

> Did you ever get it t run at the correct speed?  If so, how did you fix it?
>
> On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 1:23:22 AM UTC-7 MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>
>> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of
>> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>>
> --
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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

David!

I was just taking a look at your Nixie watch diagram, what is the function
on the resistor R11 = 510K on the Crystal circuit of the pic.

For getting better readings on the output oscillator?

Thanks a lot.



El lun, 19 abr 2021 a las 19:26, David Forbes ()
escribió:

> My Nixie watches have a variable 5-30pF capacitor on the crystal so that I
> can adjust the oscillator to exactly 32768 Hz. You could use a different
> value depending on your crystal characteristics. I use an old Hewlett
> Packard universal frequency counter, running in time period averaging mode,
> measuring the time period of 10,000 cycles of the oscillator.
> I connect an oscilloscope probe to the oscillator output pin on the PIC
> computer to achieve minimum loading of the crystal circuit. I have to
> adjust it to run a bit slow with the probe connected, to get proper
> timekeeping when the probe is removed.
> I can adjust it to within one second per week using this technique. I've
> done this on 2000 Nixie watches by now, so it works.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:23 AM MrThe50sanchez 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Guys!
>>
>> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>>
>> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of
>> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>>
>> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I
>> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to
>> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF,
>> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and
>> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours,
>> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the
>> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less.
>>
>> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter?
>> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install
>> on my watch?
>>
>>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "neonixie-l" group.
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>> .
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Thank's a lot Bill,


I'm gonna take a really good look at all the info you provide and will make
a really good accurate watch.



El mar, 20 abr 2021 a las 19:42, Bill van Dijk ()
escribió:

> Without knowing your exact design I cannot recommend a specific xtal. For
> instance, PIC processors recommend a xtal with a load capacity of about
> 12pF, while other designs are optimized for different xtals. Often the
> devise data sheet will give you a short list of recommended xtals which
> have been tested by the chip designer. The main thing is that for critical
> applications (such as a time keeping devise) always get a good brand name
> item with full specifications. Often xtals used for running a program are
> not critical, so there you can sometimes get away with something cheap; as
> long as it runs, and is close. I am a great proponent of recycling, but
> saving 32kHz clock xtals is not worth the trouble. Xtals are complicated;
> there are different cuts and styles, all specific to particular
> applications.
>
>
>
> There is a great app note from Microchip worth reading:
>
> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00949a.pdf
>
>
>
> Even Wikipedia has a decent chapter on xtals:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator
>
>
>
> Lots of other good information sources on the interweb.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 20, 2021 12:22 PM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>
>
>
> Hello Bill,
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your answer and your knoledge,
>
>
>
> I will do a chart with different capacitors values and I will see how the
> time delay get's. I'm using two capacitor to ich leg of the cristal.
>
>
>
> as you say, my cristal is not that good, do you recommend a cristal in
> specific?
>
>
>
> thanks a lot!
>
>
>
> El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 14:34:49 UTC+2, Bill van Dijk escribió:
>
> If you are still slow with the 10pF, a 12pF is not going to do it. The
> relationship between the crystal and load capacitor is critical, and it is
> therefore a mystery to me that so many (of the cheaper) are sold without
> the specifications. Anyway, if yours is a cheap Chinese crystal, try some
> other ones, perhaps you just got a bad one. Generally I always like to get
> a good brand name crystal. If you want to play with the one you have, try
> something lower yet, 8 or 7pF.
>
>
>
> In general terms, and within limits, larger cap slows it down, smaller cap
> speeds it up. Sometimes (if you use 2 caps) using a slightly different cap
> on one leg of the crystal can make a difference in the final frequency.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
> *Sent:* Monday, April 19, 2021 4:23 AM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>
>
>
> Hello Guys!
>
>
>
> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>
>
>
> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of
> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>
>
>
> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I
> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to
> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF,
> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and
> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours,
> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the
> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less.
>
>
>
> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter?
>
> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install
> on my watch?
>
>
>
>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's
>
>
>
> --
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> "neonixie-l" group.
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> .
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello David! 

that's awesome, I really like the idea, I just bought an oscilloscope but a 
really cheap one, the only one I could affort. 

I will try make some change's on the watch to catch a Via to connect the 
oscilloscope to it and take a good look to the frecuencia to try to get 
that 32.768 KHz  frecuency. 

I love the idea of the variable capacitor, it is a really really good idea 
guys.


Thanks a lot for the comments, now I have more ways to keep studiying this 
methods and components.


Thanks! 

El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 19:26:41 UTC+2, nixiebunny escribió:

> My Nixie watches have a variable 5-30pF capacitor on the crystal so that I 
> can adjust the oscillator to exactly 32768 Hz. You could use a different 
> value depending on your crystal characteristics. I use an old Hewlett 
> Packard universal frequency counter, running in time period averaging mode, 
> measuring the time period of 10,000 cycles of the oscillator. 
> I connect an oscilloscope probe to the oscillator output pin on the PIC 
> computer to achieve minimum loading of the crystal circuit. I have to 
> adjust it to run a bit slow with the probe connected, to get proper 
> timekeeping when the probe is removed. 
> I can adjust it to within one second per week using this technique. I've 
> done this on 2000 Nixie watches by now, so it works.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:23 AM MrThe50sanchez  wrote:
>
>> Hello Guys! 
>>
>> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>>
>> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of 
>> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>>
>> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I 
>> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to 
>> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
>> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and 
>> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, 
>> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the 
>> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less. 
>>
>> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 
>> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install 
>> on my watch?
>>
>>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello! 

that's crazy!!!  haha

Yes, I was thinking to put a RTC on my watch, but it is more space. that's 
my second option If I dont fix really good the time delay. 

But, as I know, With the RTC for example DS3232,  you also need to put an 
external cristal right? so, does theDS3232 regulate this time delay in any 
form? 

thanks a lot! 
El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 18:14:25 UTC+2, gregebert escribió:

> I highly recommend a DS3232; it's very accurate, has the internal crystal, 
> and requires very little power.
>
> My nixie watch debug board has been sitting in the garage and has not been 
> adjusted since March 2015 and it's gained less than 2 minutes after 6 
> years. Another interesting fact is the battery (used 1100mAh cellphone 
> battery) will need it's first recharge today after 6 years of usage. Most 
> of the time it sits there with the display off, so only the RTC and the 
> leakage of the voltage regulator cause the battery to drain. But it's 
> rather amazing that a well-used Li-ion battery could last that long on a 
> single charge.
>
> On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:34:49 AM UTC-7 Bill van Dijk wrote:
>
>> If you are still slow with the 10pF, a 12pF is not going to do it. The 
>> relationship between the crystal and load capacitor is critical, and it is 
>> therefore a mystery to me that so many (of the cheaper) are sold without 
>> the specifications. Anyway, if yours is a cheap Chinese crystal, try some 
>> other ones, perhaps you just got a bad one. Generally I always like to get 
>> a good brand name crystal. If you want to play with the one you have, try 
>> something lower yet, 8 or 7pF.
>>
>>  
>>
>> In general terms, and within limits, larger cap slows it down, smaller 
>> cap speeds it up. Sometimes (if you use 2 caps) using a slightly different 
>> cap on one leg of the crystal can make a difference in the final frequency.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *On 
>> Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 19, 2021 4:23 AM
>> *To:* neonixie-l 
>> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hello Guys! 
>>
>>  
>>
>> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of 
>> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>>
>>  
>>
>> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I 
>> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to 
>> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
>> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and 
>> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, 
>> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the 
>> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 
>>
>> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install 
>> on my watch?
>>
>>  
>>
>>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's 
>>
>>  
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello Bill,

Thanks a lot for your answer and your knoledge, 

I will do a chart with different capacitors values and I will see how the 
time delay get's. I'm using two capacitor to ich leg of the cristal.

as you say, my cristal is not that good, do you recommend a cristal in 
specific? 

thanks a lot!

El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 14:34:49 UTC+2, Bill van Dijk escribió:

> If you are still slow with the 10pF, a 12pF is not going to do it. The 
> relationship between the crystal and load capacitor is critical, and it is 
> therefore a mystery to me that so many (of the cheaper) are sold without 
> the specifications. Anyway, if yours is a cheap Chinese crystal, try some 
> other ones, perhaps you just got a bad one. Generally I always like to get 
> a good brand name crystal. If you want to play with the one you have, try 
> something lower yet, 8 or 7pF.
>
>  
>
> In general terms, and within limits, larger cap slows it down, smaller cap 
> speeds it up. Sometimes (if you use 2 caps) using a slightly different cap 
> on one leg of the crystal can make a difference in the final frequency.
>
>  
>
> Bill
>
>  
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *On 
> Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
> *Sent:* Monday, April 19, 2021 4:23 AM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>
>  
>
> Hello Guys! 
>
>  
>
> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>
>  
>
> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of 
> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>
>  
>
> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I 
> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to 
> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and 
> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, 
> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the 
> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less. 
>
>  
>
> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 
>
> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install 
> on my watch?
>
>  
>
>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's 
>
>  
>
> -- 
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> "neonixie-l" group.
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> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
>

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[neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello Guys! 

I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.

I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of time 
delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *

At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I 
investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to 
install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and 
installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, 
and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the 
manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less. 

·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 
·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install on 
my watch?

 Thanks a lot nixie lover's 

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[neonixie-l] NIXIE TUBE SOCKETS

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello everyone ! 

what kind of Nixie tube sockets do you recommend?

I'm using IN-16 / IN-14 and ZM1000 nixie tubes for my clocks, and I'm 
wondering if you can recommend me any kind of sockets to avoid soldering 
the nixie tubes to the PCB, I would love to have a quick release for the 
tube's in case of mal function.

Thanks a lot!! 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: What Type of Booster DC-DC is this one?

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello!

hahaha well, the main reason I want to see this working is generating high
voltage, but, It would be so funny watching it catching fire!

Yes, now I understand that the MOSFET must be on the reverse side, drain
and source.

Gregebert, Am I okay with this quote?


*"To see the Booster working, The PIC needs to send and OUTPUT via RC2 (in
this example) so, this little current gets to the Gate pin of the MOSFET so
it start's going on with the Switching mode (Helped with Q1 BC856), sending
current to the inductor L1 which generates picks of high voltage that are
then stored on the capacitor and later given to the nixie tube?" *

THANKS!

El sáb., 11 jul. 2020 a las 23:45, gregebert ()
escribió:

> Well, if the schematic symbol for U1 is correct, this will be a
> "catch-on-fire" inverter, because the internal diode of the MOSFET will
> create a complete circuit thru the battery and inductor, leading to high
> enough current to overheat the inductor or battery.
>
>
> Sarcasm aside, I think the intent is for U1 to be a NMOS with the drain
> and source/substrate connections reversed. Then it becomes a flyback
> converter. It looks like Q1 is in the circuit to provide faster shutoff of
> U1. You would need to run some SPICE simulations to make sure it's working
> as expected, and you would need a good model for the PIC output, such as an
> IBIS model.
>
> This circuit has no feedback loop, so the output voltage will vary wildly
> with load. Theoretically, the output voltage will be infinite with no load,
> and a minimum of around 3V out at maximum load (battery voltage minus
> diode-drop).
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[neonixie-l] What Type of Booster DC-DC is this one?

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello !

I was making a little bit of research and found this type of booster 
converter. 

What can you tell me about this one? I wan't to know how it works. 

I nearly understand how flyback boosters converters works and LT1308 
devices, but:

-Does here the mosfet make the switching mode for the inductor (wich makes 
the pick voltage) and the Capacitor stores the high voltage and them It 
supplies it to the nixie tube?
-What's the mission of the pic here?, It give`s an OUTPUT voltage when and 
fisical switch is press (when is added to the pic)?

Thanks a lot.

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Re: [neonixie-l] HELP WITH DC-DC BOOSTER CONVERTER

[MrThe50sanchez .]

I really appreciate your time for helping me with this,

Going to start making change's, learning, and I will tell you I im doing.

Thanks a lot 落

El mié., 24 jun. 2020 a las 18:39, Kevin A. ()
escribió:

> lets start with problems with the low voltage part of your board. your
> input power and ground are running through long, skinny traces. this is not
> good... you want to minimize the L and R in these parts of the board.
>
> Start with making the bottom layer of the board one big ground plane. Just
> make sure to add a keepout zone below the transformer. See the example in
> the picture below from my design. This should make sure every circuit that
> is connect to ground has a low impedance path which will help minimize
> ground problems.
>
> Next I would suggest paying special attention to your power traces.
> Especially the low voltage/high current path. Try to "visualize" where the
> current is going, and how much current is actually flowing through
> different parts of the board. I tried to illustrate the low voltage
> currents on the top copper layer in yellow, and the high voltage in blue.
>
> Remember than in a switching power supply, these currents are being turned
> on and off rapidly. The strong magnetic fields associated with this can
> interfere with your feedback circuitry and other small signals on the
> board. Try to keep the small signals away from the transformer and the
> large power traces.
>
> And remember... the copper is essentially "free". Circuit boards typically
> made by etching copper away... so you're paying for it any which way. Use
> as much of it as possible!
>
> Lets see what you come up with.
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 12:14 PM Kevin A. 
> wrote:
>
>> I've also been designing some nixie flyback power supplies lately. I will
>> do a full writeup on my website of the project when the project is
>> complete.
>>
>> I recommend these tools because I have experience with them and they
>> work!
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 4:22 PM MrThe50sanchez 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hello Again, hope everyone is good!
>>>
>>> I was trying to make a DC-DC booster converter using the LT1308B/A
>>> device, I made a PCB for it, doing the same as the datasheet of this device
>>> says, but  I don´t get the High Votage, and that`s
>>> why im here asking for help, I tried a lot of things put don`t know what
>>> it can be.
>>>
>>> This is the schematic I use  (This one is from the datasheet) :
>>>
>>>
>>> The PCB I made is the same as this schematic and using the same
>>> components, Im using a *rechargable battery CR2 800mAh 3.0V Li-on.*
>>>
>>> *Any Ideas of what I can do to find what is going wrong?*
>>>
>>> *I have LBI and LB0 from the LT1308 Device not connected to anything.
>>> */SHDN pin is connected to Vin, Positive Voltage to It works.
>>> *Because I want 180V output voltage I have resistor from FB R1 = 47K and
>>> R2 = 300 Ohm to get 1,21V Feedback.
>>> *The capacitors Im using (10nF 250v) are not electrolitic, they are
>>> normal ones.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thankss Guys!
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
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>>> .
>>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] HELP WITH DC-DC BOOSTER CONVERTER

[MrThe50sanchez .]

This is Crazy, I want to learn how to build this things.

Let's read a lot!!


El mié., 24 jun. 2020 a las 18:15, Kevin A. ()
escribió:

> I've also been designing some nixie flyback power supplies lately. I will
> do a full writeup on my website of the project when the project is
> complete.
>
> I recommend these tools because I have experience with them and they work!
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 4:22 PM MrThe50sanchez 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello Again, hope everyone is good!
>>
>> I was trying to make a DC-DC booster converter using the LT1308B/A
>> device, I made a PCB for it, doing the same as the datasheet of this device
>> says, but  I don´t get the High Votage, and that`s
>> why im here asking for help, I tried a lot of things put don`t know what
>> it can be.
>>
>> This is the schematic I use  (This one is from the datasheet) :
>>
>>
>> The PCB I made is the same as this schematic and using the same
>> components, Im using a *rechargable battery CR2 800mAh 3.0V Li-on.*
>>
>> *Any Ideas of what I can do to find what is going wrong?*
>>
>> *I have LBI and LB0 from the LT1308 Device not connected to anything.
>> */SHDN pin is connected to Vin, Positive Voltage to It works.
>> *Because I want 180V output voltage I have resistor from FB R1 = 47K and
>> R2 = 300 Ohm to get 1,21V Feedback.
>> *The capacitors Im using (10nF 250v) are not electrolitic, they are
>> normal ones.
>>
>>
>> Thankss Guys!
>>
>> --
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>> "neonixie-l" group.
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>> .
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] HELP WITH DC-DC BOOSTER CONVERTER

[MrThe50sanchez .]

Oh F**CK yes,

I made that mistake because I putted in the wrong direction the
transformer, That`s a silly mistake.

Thanks!

El mié., 24 jun. 2020 a las 15:13, Paul Andrews () escribió:

> Also, if the datasheet shows transformer pin 6 connected to ground and pin
> 4 connected to the output. You have these swapped.
>
> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 9:08:46 AM UTC-4, Paul Andrews wrote:
>>
>> Where is D4 in your circuit? It should be between the transformer pin
>> connected to SW and the transformer pin connected to ground.
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 9:06:07 AM UTC-4, MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello !
>>>
>>> Yes, I used the components that the Datasheet says, I got it from here:
>>>
>>>
>>> The thing is, that a Triple Voltage Circuit uses electrolitic
>>> capacitors, this is not the same configuration as a voltage triple circuit,
>>> but, Can It be that the capacitors I added are not electrolitic? I just
>>> putted normal ones (SMD 10nF 250V).
>>>
>>> Thanks a Lot!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El miércoles, 24 de junio de 2020, 14:49:49 (UTC+2), Paul Andrews
>>> escribió:
>>>>
>>>> Read the layout recommendations in the LT1308A datasheet. You will need
>>>> to adapt it to this configuration.
>>>>
>>>> What is the voltage rating of the 47k resistor? What are the voltage
>>>> ratings of the 10nF capacitors? What is the voltage rating of BAV21W? What
>>>> is the saturation current of the transformer?
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 6:46:01 AM UTC-4, MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello! Thanks for the response!
>>>>>
>>>>> I add here again the PCB layers that Im using.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> El martes, 23 de junio de 2020, 23:40:06 (UTC+2), Kevin A. escribió:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What does your layout look like? Show us a picture of the pcb with
>>>>>> the layers visible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just the layout of the board can make or break a DC-DC converter with
>>>>>> all of the high current transients and control signals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:22 PM MrThe50sanchez 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Again, hope everyone is good!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was trying to make a DC-DC booster converter using the LT1308B/A
>>>>>>> device, I made a PCB for it, doing the same as the datasheet of this 
>>>>>>> device
>>>>>>> says, but  I don´t get the High Votage, and that`s
>>>>>>> why im here asking for help, I tried a lot of things put don`t know
>>>>>>> what it can be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the schematic I use  (This one is from the datasheet) :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The PCB I made is the same as this schematic and using the same
>>>>>>> components, Im using a *rechargable battery CR2 800mAh 3.0V Li-on.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Any Ideas of what I can do to find what is going wrong?*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I have LBI and LB0 from the LT1308 Device not connected to anything.
>>>>>>> */SHDN pin is connected to Vin, Positive Voltage to It works.
>>>>>>> *Because I want 180V output voltage I have resistor from FB R1 = 47K
>>>>>>> and R2 = 300 Ohm to get 1,21V Feedback.
>>>>>>> *The capacitors Im using (10nF 250v) are not electrolitic, they are
>>>>>>> normal ones.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thankss Guys!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>> send an email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7d2fbb96-d88c-4341-b89a-2ab723f403dao%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7d2fbb96-d88c-4341-b89a-2ab723f403dao%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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Re: [neonixie-l] HELP WITH DC-DC BOOSTER CONVERTER

[MrThe50sanchez .]

Thanks a Lot!

the main reason of this is learning always, love electronics, so I will
take a really good look to the link you attached.

Let´s see If I find a way to change the design to it works.

Thanks a lot I will tell you How is going on


El mié., 24 jun. 2020 a las 15:04, Kevin A. ()
escribió:

> So if you really want to make this project work, then it's probably best
> you start with a fresh layout. The PCB layout that you started with needs a
> lot of work.
>
> Believe me, I made the same mistakes when I first started designing high
> voltage power supplies. Take a look this article I wrote which describes
> how I learned about and designed a high voltage boost converter:
> https://neonkev.com/2019/08/18/project-20-watt-high-voltage-boost-converter/
>
> Your design is a flyback converter, but a lot of the same pcb design still
> applies. I'll also find some of the articles I read which really helped
> with my design.
>
> Once we have a good layout, then we can work on picking the right values
> for the feedback resistors and choosing all the other components. There is
> a bit of a learning curve but be patient, read carefully and learn, and you
> will make a working design soon enough!
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 8:49 AM Paul Andrews  wrote:
>
>> Read the layout recommendations in the LT1308A datasheet. You will need
>> to adapt it to this configuration.
>>
>> What is the voltage rating of the 47k resistor? What are the voltage
>> ratings of the 10nF capacitors? What is the voltage rating of BAV21W? What
>> is the saturation current of the transformer?
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 6:46:01 AM UTC-4, MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello! Thanks for the response!
>>>
>>> I add here again the PCB layers that Im using.
>>>
>>>
>>> El martes, 23 de junio de 2020, 23:40:06 (UTC+2), Kevin A. escribió:
>>>>
>>>> What does your layout look like? Show us a picture of the pcb with the
>>>> layers visible.
>>>>
>>>> Just the layout of the board can make or break a DC-DC converter with
>>>> all of the high current transients and control signals.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:22 PM MrThe50sanchez 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Again, hope everyone is good!
>>>>>
>>>>> I was trying to make a DC-DC booster converter using the LT1308B/A
>>>>> device, I made a PCB for it, doing the same as the datasheet of this 
>>>>> device
>>>>> says, but  I don´t get the High Votage, and that`s
>>>>> why im here asking for help, I tried a lot of things put don`t know
>>>>> what it can be.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the schematic I use  (This one is from the datasheet) :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The PCB I made is the same as this schematic and using the same
>>>>> components, Im using a *rechargable battery CR2 800mAh 3.0V Li-on.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Any Ideas of what I can do to find what is going wrong?*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I have LBI and LB0 from the LT1308 Device not connected to anything.
>>>>> */SHDN pin is connected to Vin, Positive Voltage to It works.
>>>>> *Because I want 180V output voltage I have resistor from FB R1 = 47K
>>>>> and R2 = 300 Ohm to get 1,21V Feedback.
>>>>> *The capacitors Im using (10nF 250v) are not electrolitic, they are
>>>>> normal ones.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thankss Guys!
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7d2fbb96-d88c-4341-b89a-2ab723f403dao%40googlegroups.com
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7d2fbb96-d88c-4341-b89a-2ab723f403dao%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>> --
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>> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [neonixie-l] HELP WITH DC-DC BOOSTER CONVERTER

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello ! 

Yes, I used the components that the Datasheet says, I got it from here: 


The thing is, that a Triple Voltage Circuit uses electrolitic capacitors, 
this is not the same configuration as a voltage triple circuit, but, Can It 
be that the capacitors I added are not electrolitic? I just 
putted normal ones (SMD 10nF 250V).

Thanks a Lot! 





El miércoles, 24 de junio de 2020, 14:49:49 (UTC+2), Paul Andrews escribió:
>
> Read the layout recommendations in the LT1308A datasheet. You will need to 
> adapt it to this configuration.
>
> What is the voltage rating of the 47k resistor? What are the voltage 
> ratings of the 10nF capacitors? What is the voltage rating of BAV21W? What 
> is the saturation current of the transformer?
>
> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 6:46:01 AM UTC-4, MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>>
>> Hello! Thanks for the response! 
>>
>> I add here again the PCB layers that Im using. 
>>
>>
>> El martes, 23 de junio de 2020, 23:40:06 (UTC+2), Kevin A. escribió:
>>>
>>> What does your layout look like? Show us a picture of the pcb with the 
>>> layers visible. 
>>>
>>> Just the layout of the board can make or break a DC-DC converter with 
>>> all of the high current transients and control signals.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:22 PM MrThe50sanchez  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello Again, hope everyone is good! 
>>>>
>>>> I was trying to make a DC-DC booster converter using the LT1308B/A 
>>>> device, I made a PCB for it, doing the same as the datasheet of this 
>>>> device 
>>>> says, but  I don´t get the High Votage, and that`s 
>>>> why im here asking for help, I tried a lot of things put don`t know 
>>>> what it can be. 
>>>>
>>>> This is the schematic I use  (This one is from the datasheet) :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The PCB I made is the same as this schematic and using the same 
>>>> components, Im using a *rechargable battery CR2 800mAh 3.0V Li-on.*
>>>>
>>>> *Any Ideas of what I can do to find what is going wrong?*
>>>>
>>>> *I have LBI and LB0 from the LT1308 Device not connected to anything.
>>>> */SHDN pin is connected to Vin, Positive Voltage to It works. 
>>>> *Because I want 180V output voltage I have resistor from FB R1 = 47K 
>>>> and R2 = 300 Ohm to get 1,21V Feedback. 
>>>> *The capacitors Im using (10nF 250v) are not electrolitic, they are 
>>>> normal ones. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thankss Guys! 
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>> an email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7d2fbb96-d88c-4341-b89a-2ab723f403dao%40googlegroups.com
>>>>  
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7d2fbb96-d88c-4341-b89a-2ab723f403dao%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: HELP WITH DC-DC BOOSTER CONVERTER

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello! 

Yes!  I would try that, the thing is that if I put those values, Ill get 
350V 1,2mA as the datasheet says.

That´s why I made this calculations :

If I want to get a Vout of 180V for supply a Nixie tube, I need to put a R1 
=47K and R2 = 300. that`s Why I putted those! 

thanks a lot!

El miércoles, 24 de junio de 2020, 14:43:35 (UTC+2), iavine escribió:
>
> "I have resistor from FB R1 = 47K and R2 = 300 Ohm to get 1,21V Feedback."
>
> The FB resistors in the datasheet are 10M and 34.8K. Just thinking you 
> might want to use similar values. Rough calculation your FB divider will 
> draw more current than the device can supply. I might be wrong but worth 
> looking at.
>
> Cheers
> Ian
> On Wednesday, 24 June 2020, 11:45:17 BST, MrThe50sanchez <
> the50s...@gmail.com > wrote: 
>
>
> Hello, Thanks for your answer. 
>
> ·Is sad but I dont have and Scope to watch what is going on with the SW 
> pin from te LT1308 device. 
>
> ·My battery voltage when I connect it is 3.0V and the readings in the Vin 
> and SW are 3.0V. I add you a pic from the battery Im using and also the 
> schematic of the PCB. 
> Is the LB1 and LB0 floating like that? Im from Spain and have searched and 
> Understand that floating is leaving it not connect to anything, just like 
> that. 
>
>
>
> El martes, 23 de junio de 2020, 23:26:00 (UTC+2), gregebert escribió:
>
> First thing is to get a scope and start looking around.
>
> 1. You should see the SW pin pulsating. If not, what's happening on the 
> SHDN and FB pins ?
> 2. What is your battery voltage reading when connected and disconnected ? 
> Are you sure it's 3.0V ? All of the Li-ion batteries I've used are "3.7V", 
> which really means 3.6 to 4.2V depending upon the sate-of-charge and 
> load-current.
>
> The VC and FB pins are sensitive to noise. Make sure LBI is floating.
>
> -- 
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> "neonixie-l" group.
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> email to neoni...@googlegroups.com .
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>
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>  
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Re: [neonixie-l] HELP WITH DC-DC BOOSTER CONVERTER

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello! Thanks for the response! 

I add here again the PCB layers that Im using. 


El martes, 23 de junio de 2020, 23:40:06 (UTC+2), Kevin A. escribió:
>
> What does your layout look like? Show us a picture of the pcb with the 
> layers visible. 
>
> Just the layout of the board can make or break a DC-DC converter with all 
> of the high current transients and control signals.
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:22 PM MrThe50sanchez  > wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello Again, hope everyone is good! 
>>
>> I was trying to make a DC-DC booster converter using the LT1308B/A 
>> device, I made a PCB for it, doing the same as the datasheet of this device 
>> says, but  I don´t get the High Votage, and that`s 
>> why im here asking for help, I tried a lot of things put don`t know what 
>> it can be. 
>>
>> This is the schematic I use  (This one is from the datasheet) :
>>
>>
>> The PCB I made is the same as this schematic and using the same 
>> components, Im using a *rechargable battery CR2 800mAh 3.0V Li-on.*
>>
>> *Any Ideas of what I can do to find what is going wrong?*
>>
>> *I have LBI and LB0 from the LT1308 Device not connected to anything.
>> */SHDN pin is connected to Vin, Positive Voltage to It works. 
>> *Because I want 180V output voltage I have resistor from FB R1 = 47K and 
>> R2 = 300 Ohm to get 1,21V Feedback. 
>> *The capacitors Im using (10nF 250v) are not electrolitic, they are 
>> normal ones. 
>>
>>
>> Thankss Guys! 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neoni...@googlegroups.com .
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7d2fbb96-d88c-4341-b89a-2ab723f403dao%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7d2fbb96-d88c-4341-b89a-2ab723f403dao%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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[neonixie-l] HELP WITH DC-DC BOOSTER CONVERTER

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello Again, hope everyone is good! 

I was trying to make a DC-DC booster converter using the LT1308B/A device, 
I made a PCB for it, doing the same as the datasheet of this device says, 
but  I don´t get the High Votage, and that`s 
why im here asking for help, I tried a lot of things put don`t know what it 
can be. 

This is the schematic I use  (This one is from the datasheet) :


The PCB I made is the same as this schematic and using the same components, 
Im using a *rechargable battery CR2 800mAh 3.0V Li-on.*

*Any Ideas of what I can do to find what is going wrong?*

*I have LBI and LB0 from the LT1308 Device not connected to anything.
*/SHDN pin is connected to Vin, Positive Voltage to It works. 
*Because I want 180V output voltage I have resistor from FB R1 = 47K and R2 
= 300 Ohm to get 1,21V Feedback. 
*The capacitors Im using (10nF 250v) are not electrolitic, they are normal 
ones. 


Thankss Guys! 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: HELP WITH HIGH POWER SUPPLY

[MrThe50sanchez .]

Ei!

Thanks, going to take a look at it!

thanks a lot!

El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 18:56, Bill van Dijk ()
escribió:

> Anyone interested in playing with PIC devices may want to take a look at
> the Microchip AppNote TB053. It describes (in great detail) how to use a
> PIC16C781 for a boost converter producing a regulated 170V at about 2W from
> 9V  DC. It is a fairly simple solution which is easily ported to other
> PICs, and with some more effort to other brand MPUs. The beauty is that if
> you have spare resources in your device MPU, you can add this functionality
> right in.
>
> https://www.microchip.com/wwwAppNotes/AppNotes.aspx?appnote=en011970
>
> Bill
>
> -Original Message-
> From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Toby Thain
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:34 PM
> To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com; newxito 
> Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: HELP WITH HIGH POWER SUPPLY
>
> On 2020-05-14 11:35 AM, newxito wrote:
> > There is a schematic of a high voltage supply (350V, 1.2mA) in the
> > LT1308 datasheet, so maybe you can modify the circuit (FB voltage
>
> The problem with a lot of datasheet designs is that the transformers are
> long unobtainable. (Also I don't see that circuit in the LT1308 datasheets
> that are online.)
>
> If you want a quick solution, there are a LOT of simple, cheap DC supplies
> covering this range on ebay:
>
> e.g.
>
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/High-voltage-power-supply-module-kit-DIY-for-Nixie-tubes/261169220982
> at < US $8 each
>
> --Toby
>
>
>
> > divider resistors ) to get 170V at 2.5mA, that should be enough
> > current for one 1N16.
> > If you need more current, have a look at the LT3757 in flyback mode.
> >
> > --
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> > .
> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/41554687-014e-4f4b-bc08-1
> > f46f7b6812c%40googlegroups.com
> > <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/41554687-014e-4f4b-bc08-1f46f7b6812c%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: HELP WITH HIGH POWER SUPPLY

[MrThe50sanchez .]

Hello!

Wow, I was looking a lot to the datasheet but just the first schematic It
appeared, Just going to study the one you just said, It looks really good.

[image: high voltage.PNG]

Thanks a lot,

best regards from Spain.


El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 17:35, newxito () escribió:

> There is a schematic of a high voltage supply (350V, 1.2mA) in the LT1308
> datasheet, so maybe you can modify the circuit (FB voltage divider
> resistors ) to get 170V at 2.5mA, that should be enough current for one
> 1N16.
> If you need more current, have a look at the LT3757 in flyback mode.
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: HELP WITH HIGH POWER SUPPLY

[MrThe50sanchez .]

Hello!

So sorry that I putted in the wiring diagram the capacitors without the
positive and negative pins. As I searched, yes, they need to be with
polarity for the cicles high up the voltage in every step.

About the transformer, The LT1308B does have the pin SW so when it is on,
It give`s the switching mode to the primary of the transformer, so it can
generate that voltage kick in the secondary (as I understand), I woud
search more info about the "Center-tapped primary winding".

Thanks a Lot!


El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 17:18, gregebert ()
escribió:

> The voltage tripler as shown requires symmetric positive and negative
> cycles. The flyback topology you are using is primarily unipolar, so it
> wont produce the symmetric positive and negative cycles like a line-powered
> transformer does.
>
> If you are going to use a flyback topology with a voltage multiplier, you
> will need a center-tapped primary winding, and two switches that
> alternately power the transformer. I'm fairly certain the LT1308 wont work
> in that application.
>
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: HELP WITH HIGH POWER SUPPLY

[MrThe50sanchez .]

Hello! thanks for the answer.

Wow, I thought that the most important think was the Vin voltage so the
turn ratio of the transformer can high up with the kick. So, is there
anywhere that I can see with how much current goes to the Vin , how much
voltage do Im going to get at the seecundary?

thanks a lot.

El jue., 14 may. 2020 a las 16:57, Paul Andrews () escribió:

> This design works by inducing a voltage in the primary when the current
> flowing through it is turned off. The voltage induced doesn't have much to
> do with Vin, It has more to do with how long the current is allowed to flow.
>
> On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 5:50:57 AM UTC-4, MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Everyone!
>>
>> Im just building a high booster voltage converter implementing Fly-back
>> converter theory using LT1308B and also triple voltage circuit.
>>
>> I want to start with a small amount of voltage (CR2  3V 850 mAh or litium
>> batery 3,7 1,8Ah) and get to 180v to light up a Nixie tube. the thing is
>> that I don´t know how to get the 180V by starting with this little voltage.
>>
>>
>> *   3V  transformer (1:12)  I get 36v  triple voltage
>> converter (36v · 3 = 108v) --- not enought to light up a nixie tube. *
>>
>> Any Ideas how to get those 62V to get to 170v? bigger transformer? or
>> implementing a quadruple voltage circuit?
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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[neonixie-l] HELP WITH HIGH POWER SUPPLY

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello Everyone!

Im just building a high booster voltage converter implementing Fly-back 
converter theory using LT1308B and also triple voltage circuit. 

I want to start with a small amount of voltage (CR2  3V 850 mAh or litium 
batery 3,7 1,8Ah) and get to 180v to light up a Nixie tube. the thing is 
that I don´t know how to get the 180V by starting with this little voltage. 

 
*   3V  transformer (1:12)  I get 36v  triple voltage converter 
(36v · 3 = 108v) --- not enought to light up a nixie tube. *

Any Ideas how to get those 62V to get to 170v? bigger transformer? or 
implementing a quadruple voltage circuit? 


Thanks a lot! 





















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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: HELP WITH LTC3426 (1 TO 5)V BOOSTER DC-DC

[MrThe50sanchez .]

Hello!

Thanks a lot guys, I will start studying to trying to see if I can make my
own fly back booster converter. I'll let you know!

Thanks for the info!

El mar., 31 mar. 2020 a las 22:13, Paul Andrews () escribió:

> I did a long writeup
> <https://hackaday.io/project/27899-nixie-tube-power-supply> on my
> adventures making a flyback converter. I use this design now for (almost)
> all of my clocks, with slightly different components for different power
> requirements. Or you could just buy one off the shelf (but where's the fun
> in that?). Here are a couple:
>
> https://www.shop-tes.com/power-supply/
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NCH8200HV-High-Voltage-DC-Power-Supply-for-Nixie-Tubes/172818490547
>
> On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 6:30:26 AM UTC-4, MrThe50sanchez wrote:
>>
>> Hello !!
>>
>> Hope everyone is good!
>>
>> Im just trying to understand how a LTC3426 (LTC) type works.
>>
>> *MISION*: I want to light up a Nixie tube (IN-16) starting with a 3v
>> Batery. For this Im using a Booster DC-DC converter (3v-170). Because the
>> battery may go down of 3v when it is in use, I want to put beetween this
>> two a LTC device to make low voltage (1v to 5v).
>>
>> *QUESTIONS:*
>>
>> 1. I want to supply 5v to the transformer so then I get my high voltage,
>> Why is not the OUTPUT of the LTC 5v connected to the Booster?
>>
>> 2. What is the mission of the SHDN already?
>>
>> 3. What is the mission of the Capacitor C1 and C2
>>
>> Acording to the datasheet of the LTC3426 devide, I made the wiring
>> diagram, and also, I got help from some google pics.
>>
>> Is my wiring diagram Okey?
>>
>> Hope you understand why I´m asking, Im a noob on electronics, and always
>> trying to learn, but a dont get the key of this device and how it actually
>> works.
>>
>> thanks a lot!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: "Philips pw 9414 ion activity meter" Nixie tubes

[MrThe50sanchez]

Thanks! =)

El vie., 9 nov. 2018 a las 21:50, Gergely N ()
escribió:

> Hello!
>
> They are four ZM1000 and one ZM1001. They are not big, just average size
> but fine tubes.
>
> --
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[neonixie-l] Re: How can I make a NIXIE WATCH case

[MrThe50sanchez]

Thanks to all for replying! 

I just wonder if there was a cheap way to do it home made, but, I just sent 
the piece to webside´s to get a CNC stimate price! (But it is a lot 
expensive LOL).





El sábado, 21 de julio de 2018, 2:21:57 (UTC+2), J Forbes escribió:
>
>
> there are so many ways to do it. The best way is to design the watch and 
> the case at the same time, and have the case made using CNC machining 
> process. 
>
> I had a prototype Nixie watch board that I needed to make a case for, so I 
> just bent up and soldered together some copper, and bingo, instant watch 
> case. It took a few hours.
>
> http://selectric.org/nixie/index.html
>
>
>
>

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[neonixie-l] How can I make a NIXIE WATCH case

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello everyone! 

I was trying to figure out how to make the case of the watch, maybe, making 
a silicon mold or from other material. 
I have also a 3D printer, but Im just looking to make it on a good material 
(More resistant than PLA) and to have a natural finish. 

I have searched a lot in internet but didn´t find to much. 

Does anyone know how to make the mold etc, or is better to do it by other 
way? 


 Thanks group! 

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[neonixie-l] NIXIE TUBE HITACHI CD79 (Really smalls)

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hi everyone!

Im a Nixie Tube lover!

Im building a Nixie watch, and I bought a lot of Nixie tubes , there are 
Hitachi CD79.
I´m selling a some of them because I dont going to need it and maybe 
someone can give them a good use! 

I leave here the Ebay link, or email me for a good price.

https://www.ebay.es/itm/163069277663?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


Email: the50sanc...@gmail.com





Salute!!

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[neonixie-l] NIXIE TUBE HITACHI CD-79 Really smalls!

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hi everyone!

Im a Nixie Tube lover!

Im building a Nixie watch, and I bought a lot of Nixie tubes , there are 
Hitachi CD79.
I´m selling a some of them because I dont going to need it and maybe 
someone can give them a good use! 

I leave here the Ebay link, or email me for a good price.

Email: the50sanc...@gmail.com

Salute!!





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