Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

David!

I was just taking a look at your Nixie watch diagram, what is the function
on the resistor R11 = 510K on the Crystal circuit of the pic.

For getting better readings on the output oscillator?

Thanks a lot.



El lun, 19 abr 2021 a las 19:26, David Forbes ()
escribió:

> My Nixie watches have a variable 5-30pF capacitor on the crystal so that I
> can adjust the oscillator to exactly 32768 Hz. You could use a different
> value depending on your crystal characteristics. I use an old Hewlett
> Packard universal frequency counter, running in time period averaging mode,
> measuring the time period of 10,000 cycles of the oscillator.
> I connect an oscilloscope probe to the oscillator output pin on the PIC
> computer to achieve minimum loading of the crystal circuit. I have to
> adjust it to run a bit slow with the probe connected, to get proper
> timekeeping when the probe is removed.
> I can adjust it to within one second per week using this technique. I've
> done this on 2000 Nixie watches by now, so it works.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:23 AM MrThe50sanchez 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Guys!
>>
>> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>>
>> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of
>> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>>
>> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I
>> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to
>> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF,
>> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and
>> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours,
>> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the
>> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less.
>>
>> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter?
>> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install
>> on my watch?
>>
>>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "neonixie-l" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Thank's a lot Bill,


I'm gonna take a really good look at all the info you provide and will make
a really good accurate watch.



El mar, 20 abr 2021 a las 19:42, Bill van Dijk ()
escribió:

> Without knowing your exact design I cannot recommend a specific xtal. For
> instance, PIC processors recommend a xtal with a load capacity of about
> 12pF, while other designs are optimized for different xtals. Often the
> devise data sheet will give you a short list of recommended xtals which
> have been tested by the chip designer. The main thing is that for critical
> applications (such as a time keeping devise) always get a good brand name
> item with full specifications. Often xtals used for running a program are
> not critical, so there you can sometimes get away with something cheap; as
> long as it runs, and is close. I am a great proponent of recycling, but
> saving 32kHz clock xtals is not worth the trouble. Xtals are complicated;
> there are different cuts and styles, all specific to particular
> applications.
>
>
>
> There is a great app note from Microchip worth reading:
>
> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00949a.pdf
>
>
>
> Even Wikipedia has a decent chapter on xtals:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator
>
>
>
> Lots of other good information sources on the interweb.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 20, 2021 12:22 PM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>
>
>
> Hello Bill,
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your answer and your knoledge,
>
>
>
> I will do a chart with different capacitors values and I will see how the
> time delay get's. I'm using two capacitor to ich leg of the cristal.
>
>
>
> as you say, my cristal is not that good, do you recommend a cristal in
> specific?
>
>
>
> thanks a lot!
>
>
>
> El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 14:34:49 UTC+2, Bill van Dijk escribió:
>
> If you are still slow with the 10pF, a 12pF is not going to do it. The
> relationship between the crystal and load capacitor is critical, and it is
> therefore a mystery to me that so many (of the cheaper) are sold without
> the specifications. Anyway, if yours is a cheap Chinese crystal, try some
> other ones, perhaps you just got a bad one. Generally I always like to get
> a good brand name crystal. If you want to play with the one you have, try
> something lower yet, 8 or 7pF.
>
>
>
> In general terms, and within limits, larger cap slows it down, smaller cap
> speeds it up. Sometimes (if you use 2 caps) using a slightly different cap
> on one leg of the crystal can make a difference in the final frequency.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
> *Sent:* Monday, April 19, 2021 4:23 AM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>
>
>
> Hello Guys!
>
>
>
> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>
>
>
> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of
> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>
>
>
> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I
> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to
> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF,
> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and
> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours,
> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the
> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less.
>
>
>
> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter?
>
> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install
> on my watch?
>
>
>
>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>
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> To unsubscribe from t

RE: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[Bill van Dijk]

Without knowing your exact design I cannot recommend a specific xtal. For 
instance, PIC processors recommend a xtal with a load capacity of about 12pF, 
while other designs are optimized for different xtals. Often the devise data 
sheet will give you a short list of recommended xtals which have been tested by 
the chip designer. The main thing is that for critical applications (such as a 
time keeping devise) always get a good brand name item with full 
specifications. Often xtals used for running a program are not critical, so 
there you can sometimes get away with something cheap; as long as it runs, and 
is close. I am a great proponent of recycling, but saving 32kHz clock xtals is 
not worth the trouble. Xtals are complicated; there are different cuts and 
styles, all specific to particular applications. 

 

There is a great app note from Microchip worth reading:

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00949a.pdf

 

Even Wikipedia has a decent chapter on xtals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator

 

Lots of other good information sources on the interweb.

 

Cheers, Bill

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of MrThe50sanchez
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 12:22 PM
To: neonixie-l 
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

 

Hello Bill,

 

Thanks a lot for your answer and your knoledge, 

 

I will do a chart with different capacitors values and I will see how the time 
delay get's. I'm using two capacitor to ich leg of the cristal.

 

as you say, my cristal is not that good, do you recommend a cristal in 
specific? 

 

thanks a lot!

 

El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 14:34:49 UTC+2, Bill van Dijk escribió:

If you are still slow with the 10pF, a 12pF is not going to do it. The 
relationship between the crystal and load capacitor is critical, and it is 
therefore a mystery to me that so many (of the cheaper) are sold without the 
specifications. Anyway, if yours is a cheap Chinese crystal, try some other 
ones, perhaps you just got a bad one. Generally I always like to get a good 
brand name crystal. If you want to play with the one you have, try something 
lower yet, 8 or 7pF.

 

In general terms, and within limits, larger cap slows it down, smaller cap 
speeds it up. Sometimes (if you use 2 caps) using a slightly different cap on 
one leg of the crystal can make a difference in the final frequency.

 

Bill

 

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com <mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com>  
[mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of MrThe50sanchez
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 4:23 AM
To: neonixie-l mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com> >
Subject: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

 

Hello Guys! 

 

I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.

 

I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of time 
delay, 1 min within 6 hours. 

 

At the first time, I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I investigated 
the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to install with it. 
First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, giving me that 6 min 
delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and installed 10Pf capacitor and the 
delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, and I just ordered new capacitors of 
12pF to get more closer to the manufacture requires, So I imagine that the 
delay is gonna get less. 

 

·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 

·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install on my 
watch?

 

 Thanks a lot nixie lover's 

 

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[gregebert]

The DS3232 has an internal crystal, with periodic temperature compensation 
(every 100 seconds). There are also non-volatile trim registers that allow 
you to fine-tune the trimming even further, though I have not needed to do 
that.

You wont be able to use a scope to fine-tune the crystal oscillator, 
because the scope wont have sufficient precision or accuracy. A frequency 
counter is a starting point, but in the end you will need to measure the 
time over a period of days to get it accurate.

Many years ago I had a clock-calendar in my S100 computer, and I would 
tweak the trim capacitor every few days. After a week it was really close. 
There were no cellphones, GPS receivers, or NTP servers to get the time; 
you had to call the phone company for a recorded message with the time, or 
catch a radio/TV station identification.

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 9:27:56 AM UTC-7 MrThe50sanchez wrote:

> Hello David! 
>
> that's awesome, I really like the idea, I just bought an oscilloscope but 
> a really cheap one, the only one I could affort. 
>
> I will try make some change's on the watch to catch a Via to connect the 
> oscilloscope to it and take a good look to the frecuencia to try to get 
> that 32.768 KHz  frecuency. 
>
> I love the idea of the variable capacitor, it is a really really good idea 
> guys.
>
>
> Thanks a lot for the comments, now I have more ways to keep studiying this 
> methods and components.
>
>
> Thanks! 
>
> El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 19:26:41 UTC+2, nixiebunny escribió:
>
>> My Nixie watches have a variable 5-30pF capacitor on the crystal so that 
>> I can adjust the oscillator to exactly 32768 Hz. You could use a different 
>> value depending on your crystal characteristics. I use an old Hewlett 
>> Packard universal frequency counter, running in time period averaging mode, 
>> measuring the time period of 10,000 cycles of the oscillator. 
>> I connect an oscilloscope probe to the oscillator output pin on the PIC 
>> computer to achieve minimum loading of the crystal circuit. I have to 
>> adjust it to run a bit slow with the probe connected, to get proper 
>> timekeeping when the probe is removed. 
>> I can adjust it to within one second per week using this technique. I've 
>> done this on 2000 Nixie watches by now, so it works.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:23 AM MrThe50sanchez  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Guys! 
>>>
>>> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>>>
>>> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of 
>>> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>>>
>>> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I 
>>> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to 
>>> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
>>> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and 
>>> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, 
>>> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the 
>>> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less. 
>>>
>>> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 
>>> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install 
>>> on my watch?
>>>
>>>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello David! 

that's awesome, I really like the idea, I just bought an oscilloscope but a 
really cheap one, the only one I could affort. 

I will try make some change's on the watch to catch a Via to connect the 
oscilloscope to it and take a good look to the frecuencia to try to get 
that 32.768 KHz  frecuency. 

I love the idea of the variable capacitor, it is a really really good idea 
guys.


Thanks a lot for the comments, now I have more ways to keep studiying this 
methods and components.


Thanks! 

El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 19:26:41 UTC+2, nixiebunny escribió:

> My Nixie watches have a variable 5-30pF capacitor on the crystal so that I 
> can adjust the oscillator to exactly 32768 Hz. You could use a different 
> value depending on your crystal characteristics. I use an old Hewlett 
> Packard universal frequency counter, running in time period averaging mode, 
> measuring the time period of 10,000 cycles of the oscillator. 
> I connect an oscilloscope probe to the oscillator output pin on the PIC 
> computer to achieve minimum loading of the crystal circuit. I have to 
> adjust it to run a bit slow with the probe connected, to get proper 
> timekeeping when the probe is removed. 
> I can adjust it to within one second per week using this technique. I've 
> done this on 2000 Nixie watches by now, so it works.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:23 AM MrThe50sanchez  wrote:
>
>> Hello Guys! 
>>
>> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>>
>> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of 
>> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>>
>> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I 
>> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to 
>> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
>> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and 
>> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, 
>> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the 
>> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less. 
>>
>> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 
>> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install 
>> on my watch?
>>
>>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello! 

that's crazy!!!  haha

Yes, I was thinking to put a RTC on my watch, but it is more space. that's 
my second option If I dont fix really good the time delay. 

But, as I know, With the RTC for example DS3232,  you also need to put an 
external cristal right? so, does theDS3232 regulate this time delay in any 
form? 

thanks a lot! 
El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 18:14:25 UTC+2, gregebert escribió:

> I highly recommend a DS3232; it's very accurate, has the internal crystal, 
> and requires very little power.
>
> My nixie watch debug board has been sitting in the garage and has not been 
> adjusted since March 2015 and it's gained less than 2 minutes after 6 
> years. Another interesting fact is the battery (used 1100mAh cellphone 
> battery) will need it's first recharge today after 6 years of usage. Most 
> of the time it sits there with the display off, so only the RTC and the 
> leakage of the voltage regulator cause the battery to drain. But it's 
> rather amazing that a well-used Li-ion battery could last that long on a 
> single charge.
>
> On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:34:49 AM UTC-7 Bill van Dijk wrote:
>
>> If you are still slow with the 10pF, a 12pF is not going to do it. The 
>> relationship between the crystal and load capacitor is critical, and it is 
>> therefore a mystery to me that so many (of the cheaper) are sold without 
>> the specifications. Anyway, if yours is a cheap Chinese crystal, try some 
>> other ones, perhaps you just got a bad one. Generally I always like to get 
>> a good brand name crystal. If you want to play with the one you have, try 
>> something lower yet, 8 or 7pF.
>>
>>  
>>
>> In general terms, and within limits, larger cap slows it down, smaller 
>> cap speeds it up. Sometimes (if you use 2 caps) using a slightly different 
>> cap on one leg of the crystal can make a difference in the final frequency.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *On 
>> Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 19, 2021 4:23 AM
>> *To:* neonixie-l 
>> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hello Guys! 
>>
>>  
>>
>> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of 
>> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>>
>>  
>>
>> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I 
>> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to 
>> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
>> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and 
>> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, 
>> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the 
>> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 
>>
>> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install 
>> on my watch?
>>
>>  
>>
>>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's 
>>
>>  
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello Bill,

Thanks a lot for your answer and your knoledge, 

I will do a chart with different capacitors values and I will see how the 
time delay get's. I'm using two capacitor to ich leg of the cristal.

as you say, my cristal is not that good, do you recommend a cristal in 
specific? 

thanks a lot!

El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 14:34:49 UTC+2, Bill van Dijk escribió:

> If you are still slow with the 10pF, a 12pF is not going to do it. The 
> relationship between the crystal and load capacitor is critical, and it is 
> therefore a mystery to me that so many (of the cheaper) are sold without 
> the specifications. Anyway, if yours is a cheap Chinese crystal, try some 
> other ones, perhaps you just got a bad one. Generally I always like to get 
> a good brand name crystal. If you want to play with the one you have, try 
> something lower yet, 8 or 7pF.
>
>  
>
> In general terms, and within limits, larger cap slows it down, smaller cap 
> speeds it up. Sometimes (if you use 2 caps) using a slightly different cap 
> on one leg of the crystal can make a difference in the final frequency.
>
>  
>
> Bill
>
>  
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *On 
> Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
> *Sent:* Monday, April 19, 2021 4:23 AM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>
>  
>
> Hello Guys! 
>
>  
>
> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>
>  
>
> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of 
> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>
>  
>
> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I 
> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to 
> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and 
> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, 
> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the 
> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less. 
>
>  
>
> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 
>
> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install 
> on my watch?
>
>  
>
>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's 
>
>  
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "neonixie-l" group.
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>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[chuckrr]

David,  I need to consult you about the rubidium oscillator.   I am 
wanting to set one up.   Can you offer any hints or tips

on dividing down the osc. Freq.  (10 mHz, I think it is, and typically 
powered by 24 volts DC).    Any of your thoughts

will be helpful.    Thanks,  Chuck
 

 Original Message 
From: "David Forbes" 
Sent: 4/19/2021 1:26:52 PM
To: "NeoNixie" 
    Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
 

My Nixie watches have a variable 5-30pF capacitor on the crystal so 
that I can adjust the oscillator to exactly 32768 Hz. You could use a different 
value depending on your crystal characteristics. I use an old Hewlett Packard 
universal frequency counter, running in time period averaging mode, measuring 
the time period of 10,000 cycles of the oscillator. 

I connect an oscilloscope probe to the oscillator output pin on 
the PIC computer to achieve minimum loading of the crystal circuit. I have to 
adjust it to run a bit slow with the probe connected, to get proper timekeeping 
when the probe is removed. 

I can adjust it to within one second per week using this 
technique. I've done this on 2000 Nixie watches by now, so it works.

 





On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:23 AM MrThe50sanchez 
 wrote:

Hello Guys!

 

I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give 
me some help.

 

I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having 
a little bit of time delay, 1 min within 6 hours. 

 

At the first time, I had 6 min delay for 6 hours 
aproximately. I investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you 
need to install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and installed 
10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, and I just 
ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the manufacture requires, 
So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less.

 

·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter?

·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really 
acurate to install on my watch?

 
 Thanks a lot nixie lover's

 

 

 

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[David Forbes]

My Nixie watches have a variable 5-30pF capacitor on the crystal so that I
can adjust the oscillator to exactly 32768 Hz. You could use a different
value depending on your crystal characteristics. I use an old Hewlett
Packard universal frequency counter, running in time period averaging mode,
measuring the time period of 10,000 cycles of the oscillator.
I connect an oscilloscope probe to the oscillator output pin on the PIC
computer to achieve minimum loading of the crystal circuit. I have to
adjust it to run a bit slow with the probe connected, to get proper
timekeeping when the probe is removed.
I can adjust it to within one second per week using this technique. I've
done this on 2000 Nixie watches by now, so it works.


On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:23 AM MrThe50sanchez  wrote:

> Hello Guys!
>
> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>
> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of
> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>
> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I
> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to
> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF,
> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and
> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours,
> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the
> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less.
>
> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter?
> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install
> on my watch?
>
>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[gregebert]

I highly recommend a DS3232; it's very accurate, has the internal crystal, 
and requires very little power.

My nixie watch debug board has been sitting in the garage and has not been 
adjusted since March 2015 and it's gained less than 2 minutes after 6 
years. Another interesting fact is the battery (used 1100mAh cellphone 
battery) will need it's first recharge today after 6 years of usage. Most 
of the time it sits there with the display off, so only the RTC and the 
leakage of the voltage regulator cause the battery to drain. But it's 
rather amazing that a well-used Li-ion battery could last that long on a 
single charge.

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 5:34:49 AM UTC-7 Bill van Dijk wrote:

> If you are still slow with the 10pF, a 12pF is not going to do it. The 
> relationship between the crystal and load capacitor is critical, and it is 
> therefore a mystery to me that so many (of the cheaper) are sold without 
> the specifications. Anyway, if yours is a cheap Chinese crystal, try some 
> other ones, perhaps you just got a bad one. Generally I always like to get 
> a good brand name crystal. If you want to play with the one you have, try 
> something lower yet, 8 or 7pF.
>
>  
>
> In general terms, and within limits, larger cap slows it down, smaller cap 
> speeds it up. Sometimes (if you use 2 caps) using a slightly different cap 
> on one leg of the crystal can make a difference in the final frequency.
>
>  
>
> Bill
>
>  
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *On 
> Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
> *Sent:* Monday, April 19, 2021 4:23 AM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>
>  
>
> Hello Guys! 
>
>  
>
> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>
>  
>
> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of 
> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>
>  
>
> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I 
> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to 
> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and 
> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, 
> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the 
> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less. 
>
>  
>
> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 
>
> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install 
> on my watch?
>
>  
>
>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's 
>
>  
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7ce2b557-f652-44b2-a71f-ed75b96ea06fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>

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RE: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[Bill van Dijk]

If you are still slow with the 10pF, a 12pF is not going to do it. The 
relationship between the crystal and load capacitor is critical, and it is 
therefore a mystery to me that so many (of the cheaper) are sold without the 
specifications. Anyway, if yours is a cheap Chinese crystal, try some other 
ones, perhaps you just got a bad one. Generally I always like to get a good 
brand name crystal. If you want to play with the one you have, try something 
lower yet, 8 or 7pF.

 

In general terms, and within limits, larger cap slows it down, smaller cap 
speeds it up. Sometimes (if you use 2 caps) using a slightly different cap on 
one leg of the crystal can make a difference in the final frequency.

 

Bill

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of MrThe50sanchez
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 4:23 AM
To: neonixie-l 
Subject: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

 

Hello Guys! 

 

I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.

 

I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of time 
delay, 1 min within 6 hours. 

 

At the first time, I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I investigated 
the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to install with it. 
First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, giving me that 6 min 
delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and installed 10Pf capacitor and the 
delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, and I just ordered new capacitors of 
12pF to get more closer to the manufacture requires, So I imagine that the 
delay is gonna get less. 

 

·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 

·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install on my 
watch?

 

 Thanks a lot nixie lover's 

 

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 .

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[neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Hello Guys! 

I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.

I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of time 
delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *

At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I 
investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to 
install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF, 
giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and 
installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours, 
and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the 
manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less. 

·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter? 
·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install on 
my watch?

 Thanks a lot nixie lover's 

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