Re: [neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
Enameled wire is pain to strip mechanically. Back in my school days we used a pill of Aspirin and push the end of enameled wire shortly onto it with hot solder iron. Aspirin would melt and eat away the enamel, easing the tining process. Fumes are not nice to inhale, though. @Gideon if you prefer protoboards, you can try kynar wire. A 30-gauge spool of it is not expensive, strips off easily and solders even easier. Tomislav On 9 December 2013 02:44, Adam Jacobs a...@jacobs.us wrote: Yes, but why use enamel coated wire in the first place? I've only ever used it for winding inductors and transformers. I hate the stuff. Dipping in molten solder usually works to remove the enamel, with a clean-up pass using sandpaper. My favorite protoboard wire is the old 80-wire PATA ribbon cables. In Seattle, I can buy the ribbon cable for $1, giving me quite a bit of good wire for the price. The wires easily separate with fingernails and the insulation easily strips with fingernails too. Avoid the 40-wire version, those use stranded wire instead of solid-core. -Adam On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 3:02 PM, AlexTsekenis alextseke...@gmail.comwrote: For any diameter of enamel-coated wire larger than a strand of hair, the burnt enamel should be removed to expose the copper. Otherwise solder wetting will be poor and the soldering process frustrating. You can do this using fine sandpaper, a file, or a sharp knife. Burning the enamel first makes removal easier. For thin wires the soldering iron is adequate. Larger diameters require a lighter. Even large diameters a small blowtorch. Tin the wire prior to soldering using a generous amount of flux. This will also show you if you did a good job scrapping off the burnt enamel. Alex On Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:55:05 PM UTC, Gideon Wackers wrote: Well the first board is filled with tubes, and my head is filled with headache from peering at the board.. The enameled wire was very hard to solder even after burning off the enamel layer. Although I do not dare to show the abomination that I call soldering the tubes are all connected. Don't worry I know how to solder, but the enamel wire was giving me a very hard time. The nice thing about the enamel wire was that it was easy to go through the forest of component legs. I'm off to bed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/3bd64c59-b0f7-4be1-a4ec-4ced96bbff34%40googlegroups.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CA%2BAY7RydOr5RoK2EA%3D-p%2B_1cDOg8V8bpJWwud5BMQreKt63d7w%40mail.gmail.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAChpj6zH1nRMH1GCTdcjpWqfHy39bj7FoTBC-vyELaZW7doZQA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
Wow, great tip about the aspirin! I'll try that on my next transceiver build. :) -73 Adam W7QI On 12/9/2013 4:43 AM, Tomislav Kordaso wrote: Enameled wire is pain to strip mechanically. Back in my school days we used a pill of Aspirin and push the end of enameled wire shortly onto it with hot solder iron. Aspirin would melt and eat away the enamel, easing the tining process. Fumes are not nice to inhale, though. @Gideon if you prefer protoboards, you can try kynar wire. A 30-gauge spool of it is not expensive, strips off easily and solders even easier. Tomislav On 9 December 2013 02:44, Adam Jacobs a...@jacobs.us mailto:a...@jacobs.us wrote: Yes, but why use enamel coated wire in the first place? I've only ever used it for winding inductors and transformers. I hate the stuff. Dipping in molten solder usually works to remove the enamel, with a clean-up pass using sandpaper. My favorite protoboard wire is the old 80-wire PATA ribbon cables. In Seattle, I can buy the ribbon cable for $1, giving me quite a bit of good wire for the price. The wires easily separate with fingernails and the insulation easily strips with fingernails too. Avoid the 40-wire version, those use stranded wire instead of solid-core. -Adam On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 3:02 PM, AlexTsekenis alextseke...@gmail.com mailto:alextseke...@gmail.com wrote: For any diameter of enamel-coated wire larger than a strand of hair, the burnt enamel should be removed to expose the copper. Otherwise solder wetting will be poor and the soldering process frustrating. You can do this using fine sandpaper, a file, or a sharp knife. Burning the enamel first makes removal easier. For thin wires the soldering iron is adequate. Larger diameters require a lighter. Even large diameters a small blowtorch. Tin the wire prior to soldering using a generous amount of flux. This will also show you if you did a good job scrapping off the burnt enamel. Alex On Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:55:05 PM UTC, Gideon Wackers wrote: Well the first board is filled with tubes, and my head is filled with headache from peering at the board.. The enameled wire was very hard to solder even after burning off the enamel layer. Although I do not dare to show the abomination that I call soldering the tubes are all connected. Don't worry I know how to solder, but the enamel wire was giving me a very hard time. The nice thing about the enamel wire was that it was easy to go through the forest of component legs. I'm off to bed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/3bd64c59-b0f7-4be1-a4ec-4ced96bbff34%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CA%2BAY7RydOr5RoK2EA%3D-p%2B_1cDOg8V8bpJWwud5BMQreKt63d7w%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAChpj6zH1nRMH1GCTdcjpWqfHy39bj7FoTBC-vyELaZW7doZQA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
Yes, the aspirin trick is a great one on the enameled wire! I think of this place every time I use it. I've built many circuit cards on Vector #3677 plugboards. They are about 4.5 inch x 9.5 inch, and they have a 22/44 edge connector, and a hole pattern for 3 columns of ics. I use #30 ga wirewrap wire as soldered jumpers. I run the jumpers on the top side, leaving the solder side being just the solder joints. One really nice advantage of the Kynar insulation is that it has a very small amount of shrink-back when soldered. I have found that many other wires such as stranded wires from ribbon cable tend to have lots of shrink-back, which can be a real pain. I also tend to juice up most of my solder joints with a little extra flux to make the solder flow easily. I use some special non-conductive flux for these boards with the tiny close-spaced traces. Yeah, they are through-hole parts, and that stuff is plenty small enough for me! I have not worked on SMD yet, and do not especially relish the thought of it. Chuck Original Message From: a...@jacobs.us To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 17:44:12 -0800 Yes, but why use enamel coated wire in the first place? I've only ever used it for winding inductors and transformers. I hate the stuff. Dipping in molten solder usually works to remove the enamel, with a clean-up pass using sandpaper. My favorite protoboard wire is the old 80-wire PATA ribbon cables. In Seattle, I can buy the ribbon cable for $1, giving me quite a bit of good wire for the price. The wires easily separate with fingernails and the insulation easily strips with fingernails too. Avoid the 40-wire version, those use stranded wire instead of solid-core. -Adam On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 3:02 PM, AlexTsekenis alextseke...@gmail.com wrote: For any diameter of enamel-coated wire larger than a strand of hair, the burnt enamel should be removed to expose the copper. Otherwise solder wetting will be poor and the soldering process frustrating. You can do this using fine sandpaper, a file, or a sharp knife. Burning the enamel first makes removal easier. For thin wires the soldering iron is adequate. Larger diameters require a lighter. Even large diameters a small blowtorch. Tin the wire prior to soldering using a generous amount of flux. This will also show you if you did a good job scrapping off the burnt enamel. Alex On Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:55:05 PM UTC, Gideon Wackers wrote: Well the first board is filled with tubes, and my head is filled with headache from peering at the board.. The enameled wire was very hard to solder even after burning off the enamel layer. Although I do not dare to show the abomination that I call soldering the tubes are all connected. Don't worry I know how to solder, but the enamel wire was giving me a very hard time. The nice thing about the enamel wire was that it was easy to go through the forest of component legs. I'm off to bed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/3bd64c59-b0f7-4be1-a4ec- 4ced96bbff34%40googlegroups.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CA%2BAY7RydOr5RoK2EA%3D- p%2B_1cDOg8V8bpJWwud5BMQreKt63d7w%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. $4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web space. 5x faster dialup for only $9.95/mo. No contracts, No fees, No Kidding! See http://www.All2Easy.net for more details! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/380-220131219162511319%40all2easy.net. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
I've been following this discussion for a couple of days now, and thought I knew what was going on, but I just went to my bench a physically put my hands on an IV-6 VFD tube. The filaments for these tubes are specified at 0.85-1.15 Vrms (nominal 1V), with a current draw of 50 mA. Note that the spec sheet says Vrms, implying an AC filament drive. I know this matters for the long, skinny tubes like the IV-18 8-digit tubes, but for single digits DC is just fine. Fortunately, ACV rms is *exactly* equal to DCV when going into a pure resistive heater; in fact, that's one commonly used simplified definition of RMS, and in the olden days the physical method used to make a true-RMS meter. I agree with other posters that the reactive components of this tube should be nearly nil, but I went ahead and measured it anyway. It turned out to be 1.7 uH - higher than I expected, but still an insignificantly low value. So I measured the resistance of the filament cold with a four-wire ohmmeter, so that lead resistance would not be significant. This turned out to be 5.1 ohms, which at 1V filament supply would cause a current of 196 mA - about four times the specified draw. I then set my bench supply to 1.00 VDC, and connected it directly to the filament. The power supply's current meter read 0.05 A, or 50 mA - right at spec, but not with very good resolution, so I then put a milliamp meter in series. I've previously measured the internal resistance of this meter, and know it to be 0.1 ohm, so it wouldn't significantly affect the reading. Sure enough, it read 51.2 mA, which is *plenty* close enough for any practical use. Therefore, the hot filament resistance is just about 200 ohms. This means that there's a surge when power is first applied, which might (does, actually) shorten the life of the tube. As one poster mentioned, light bulbs and other filament-based devices fail most frequently when power is first applied; this is mostly due to the filament rapidly changing tension and shape as it heats up. (If you fire up a Numitron tube, you can actually see the filament sag as it begins to glow.) I've found that a very easy way to give a soft start, and simultaneously solving the problem of getting a 1V supply for the filament, is to simply place an 80 ohm (I use the standard 82 ohm value) resistor in series with the filament, and run it off the 5V supply. The 82 ohm resistor is by far the largest part of the current path, so even if the tube filament started out with zero resistance, the maximum current is limited to 5/82 = 60mA - only 20% over spec, instead of 400%. (Older stepper-motor drives used to use this technique, as well.) Of course, there's a penalty, as always: this is quite inefficient, since 4/5 of the filament power is being dissipated - wasted - in the dropper resistor, but if you've got plenty of 5V power around, who cares. (For this tube, there's still only 200 mW dissipated in the resistor, so a standard quarter-watt resistor is fine. Those old stepper drives had big honking power resistors, though...) Sorry for the dissertation. I accidentally bought a large batch of these a couple of years ago, and to make back my money (except for time, of course...) broke it into small batches for eBay. I sold them with a little data sheet I printed up that included the original Russian data sheet, plus an English-language text sheet and a quick-test jig using a 1.5V cell and a couple of 9-volt batteries. Since I had so many, I also spent a bit of time playing with them, and got to know them pretty well. They really are considerably easier to use than Nixies, just because of the lower voltage requirements, and I think they're longer-lasting as well. I don't find them nearly as attractive as a nixie's warm glow, though. Numitrons, on the other hand, I like a lot... ~~ Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/1cb3b74c-8203-45ce-81a2-86be891739fb%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
Put a new battery in your calculator: 1V/0.05A = 20 ohms Don't feel too embarrassed. If you look at the old Yahoo nixie forum, I have a long trail of on-line oops's. Your hot resistance measurement procedure is correct, and that's what's really important. On Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:14:55 AM UTC-8, Mark Moulding wrote: I then set my bench supply to 1.00 VDC, and connected it directly to the filament. The power supply's current meter read 0.05 A, or 50 mA - right at spec, but not with very good resolution, so I then put a milliamp meter in series. I've previously measured the internal resistance of this meter, and know it to be 0.1 ohm, so it wouldn't significantly affect the reading. Sure enough, it read 51.2 mA, which is *plenty* close enough for any practical use. Therefore, the hot filament resistance is just about 200 ohms. ~~ Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/05cdb41f-9f59-4135-b956-64c3aa09af5a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
Well the first board is filled with tubes, and my head is filled with headache from peering at the board.. The enameled wire was very hard to solder even after burning off the enamel layer. Although I do not dare to show the abomination that I call soldering the tubes are all connected. Don't worry I know how to solder, but the enamel wire was giving me a very hard time. The nice thing about the enamel wire was that it was easy to go through the forest of component legs. I'm off to bed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/811b0e78-c8ce-4982-8a0e-f1ba11b3bb33%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
For any diameter of enamel-coated wire larger than a strand of hair, the burnt enamel should be removed to expose the copper. Otherwise solder wetting will be poor and the soldering process frustrating. You can do this using fine sandpaper, a file, or a sharp knife. Burning the enamel first makes removal easier. For thin wires the soldering iron is adequate. Larger diameters require a lighter. Even large diameters a small blowtorch. Tin the wire prior to soldering using a generous amount of flux. This will also show you if you did a good job scrapping off the burnt enamel. Alex On Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:55:05 PM UTC, Gideon Wackers wrote: Well the first board is filled with tubes, and my head is filled with headache from peering at the board.. The enameled wire was very hard to solder even after burning off the enamel layer. Although I do not dare to show the abomination that I call soldering the tubes are all connected. Don't worry I know how to solder, but the enamel wire was giving me a very hard time. The nice thing about the enamel wire was that it was easy to go through the forest of component legs. I'm off to bed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/3bd64c59-b0f7-4be1-a4ec-4ced96bbff34%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
On Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:50:20 AM UTC-8, threeneurons wrote: Put a new battery in your calculator: 1V/0.05A = 20 ohms Oh - duh! I think the rest of the discourse was correct. (Sadly, no calculator was used - I guess it's my brain that needs the new batteries...) ~~ Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/217d5e3e-a407-4e6a-8040-7e09d03fd82a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
I have a vague feeling that enamel wire fumes are fairly toxic, hence I used to sandpaper them first to remove most of it prior to a roasting with a lighter. My workplace used to have an enamel wire stripper, which was a funky bit of kit - 3 blades that spun round :-) - Alex On Sunday, 8 December 2013 23:02:22 UTC, AlexTsekenis wrote: For any diameter of enamel-coated wire larger than a strand of hair, the burnt enamel should be removed to expose the copper. Otherwise solder wetting will be poor and the soldering process frustrating. You can do this using fine sandpaper, a file, or a sharp knife. Burning the enamel first makes removal easier. For thin wires the soldering iron is adequate. Larger diameters require a lighter. Even large diameters a small blowtorch. Tin the wire prior to soldering using a generous amount of flux. This will also show you if you did a good job scrapping off the burnt enamel. Alex On Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:55:05 PM UTC, Gideon Wackers wrote: Well the first board is filled with tubes, and my head is filled with headache from peering at the board.. The enameled wire was very hard to solder even after burning off the enamel layer. Although I do not dare to show the abomination that I call soldering the tubes are all connected. Don't worry I know how to solder, but the enamel wire was giving me a very hard time. The nice thing about the enamel wire was that it was easy to go through the forest of component legs. I'm off to bed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/e18122d0-7790-4277-87b9-a15fb0b0e6f5%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
Yes, but why use enamel coated wire in the first place? I've only ever used it for winding inductors and transformers. I hate the stuff. Dipping in molten solder usually works to remove the enamel, with a clean-up pass using sandpaper. My favorite protoboard wire is the old 80-wire PATA ribbon cables. In Seattle, I can buy the ribbon cable for $1, giving me quite a bit of good wire for the price. The wires easily separate with fingernails and the insulation easily strips with fingernails too. Avoid the 40-wire version, those use stranded wire instead of solid-core. -Adam On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 3:02 PM, AlexTsekenis alextseke...@gmail.com wrote: For any diameter of enamel-coated wire larger than a strand of hair, the burnt enamel should be removed to expose the copper. Otherwise solder wetting will be poor and the soldering process frustrating. You can do this using fine sandpaper, a file, or a sharp knife. Burning the enamel first makes removal easier. For thin wires the soldering iron is adequate. Larger diameters require a lighter. Even large diameters a small blowtorch. Tin the wire prior to soldering using a generous amount of flux. This will also show you if you did a good job scrapping off the burnt enamel. Alex On Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:55:05 PM UTC, Gideon Wackers wrote: Well the first board is filled with tubes, and my head is filled with headache from peering at the board.. The enameled wire was very hard to solder even after burning off the enamel layer. Although I do not dare to show the abomination that I call soldering the tubes are all connected. Don't worry I know how to solder, but the enamel wire was giving me a very hard time. The nice thing about the enamel wire was that it was easy to go through the forest of component legs. I'm off to bed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/3bd64c59-b0f7-4be1-a4ec-4ced96bbff34%40googlegroups.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CA%2BAY7RydOr5RoK2EA%3D-p%2B_1cDOg8V8bpJWwud5BMQreKt63d7w%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
