Re: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets

[Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour]

grammar wasn't invented (except of course for computer and other artificial
languages like Esperanto); it might have been codified after the fact
(Panini's Sanskrit being my favorite example, since his grammar is actually
a form of computer programming at least two thousand years old). And
learning, teaching, or being taught - in various ways every organism does
this. The world is momentary structures that have always already been with
us in a sense -

Best!, Alan

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:39 PM Max Herman via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

>
> Good point!
>
> Maybe, "being, unfolding, making explicate
> Grammar on the fly, with no thought yet
> Of learning, teaching, or being taught
> All kin, earliest folk, all groups greater than one
> Since the first cell and first particle"?
>
> It's a hardscrabble gleaning sometimes;
> More when my leaves are falling like its own!
>
>
> --
> *From:* Alan Sondheim 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2019 6:07 PM
> *To:* Max Herman via NetBehaviour 
> *Cc:* Max Herman 
> *Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets
>
>
>
> love this, only wanted to say that there was always already grammar,
> always already structure to being in the world, not " Early folk creating
> grammar on the fly, far from learning it or being taught it. "
> we were never, none of us in the world, nor animals, nor any, creating
> grammar that way; I remember Heinz von Foerster describing culture
> beginning with negation, even amoeba have culture, have that -
>
> Best!, Alan
>
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Max Herman via NetBehaviour wrote:
>
> >
> > Take a pebble for instance, an item,
> > One of the few and many that can be picked up by hand.
> > Some are like this.
> > Some can also be instruments, sticks or stones, alongside the immovable
> > base-grounds.
> > Hence thou hast compositions, counting, forms, names, phrases, and such.
> > Early folk creating grammar on the fly, far from learning it or being
> taught
> > it.
> > What counts the quiet though, the quietus?
> > There can be no count without that, no seeing, not even any hearing.
> > Well the breathing counts it, says the brain.
> > Imagine all paint and no canvas!
> > You lose track of your sons.
> > Were they ever even yours, oh fleet of foot?
> > Wild turkeys cross the streets coolly around here,
> > Up from the Mississippi,
> > And I thank them daily for it.
> > More than one story-set or circle of the world
> > Calls life breath, the one and the all
> > An old-time bellows or mill that moves particles
> > Like Da Vinci drew
> > Each pebble a point and a pointer, if marked,
> > And of course a black square.
> >
> >
> 
> > From: NetBehaviour  on
> behalf
> > of Alan Sondheim 
> > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 6:11 PM
> > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> > 
> > Subject: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets
> >
> >
> > Goddess of Storms and Alphabets
> >
> > http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030727.jpg
> > http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030738.JPG
> >
> > I'm not sure how language would begin, not sure how language would
> > be recorded as a gesture accompanied by a sound. Sure to be sounds
> > accompanying gestures that hardened, somewhen into a signal or
> > call, somehow a meaning. The sounds were ghostings, heard over the
> > hill around the hill in the forest across the stream behind the
> > rocks above the cliffs within the caves, the gestures were bodies,
> > the bodies were breathing, there were two directions, into the
> > lungs, out from the lungs. There were swirls and whirlwinds and the
> > world breathed and was given body and bodies. It was cool to hear a
> > knowledge from one who was knowing, invisible, elsewhere. There
> > were cries too from the woundings, there were disappearances of
> > familiar voices from leaving and dying which returned in memories
> > and dreams made real with them, the waking in the night, the
> > weeping and ululations. The world was enormous and narrow and all
> > around and the same for many comings and goings for weeks and
> > months at a time, or just a vision around the boulder surface or
> > from the sky when things moved there, as they always did. The world
> > was always different than the world, and always new and old, and
> > always the world. The murmuring of the world was everywhere and
> > everywhen and when that became language and accountancy, everything
> > moved away, quietly, until distance itself became unfathomable,
> > unknown even in its familiarity. Sure to be sounds, sure to be.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > NetBehaviour mailing list
> > NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> >
> >
>
> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552
> current text http://www.alansondheim.org/wj.txt
> 

Re: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Good point!

Maybe, "being, unfolding, making explicate
Grammar on the fly, with no thought yet
Of learning, teaching, or being taught
All kin, earliest folk, all groups greater than one
Since the first cell and first particle"?

It's a hardscrabble gleaning sometimes;
More when my leaves are falling like its own!



From: Alan Sondheim 
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 6:07 PM
To: Max Herman via NetBehaviour 
Cc: Max Herman 
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets



love this, only wanted to say that there was always already grammar,
always already structure to being in the world, not " Early folk creating
grammar on the fly, far from learning it or being taught it. "
we were never, none of us in the world, nor animals, nor any, creating
grammar that way; I remember Heinz von Foerster describing culture
beginning with negation, even amoeba have culture, have that -

Best!, Alan

On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Max Herman via NetBehaviour wrote:

>
> Take a pebble for instance, an item,
> One of the few and many that can be picked up by hand.
> Some are like this.
> Some can also be instruments, sticks or stones, alongside the immovable
> base-grounds.
> Hence thou hast compositions, counting, forms, names, phrases, and such.
> Early folk creating grammar on the fly, far from learning it or being taught
> it.
> What counts the quiet though, the quietus?
> There can be no count without that, no seeing, not even any hearing.
> Well the breathing counts it, says the brain.
> Imagine all paint and no canvas!
> You lose track of your sons.
> Were they ever even yours, oh fleet of foot?
> Wild turkeys cross the streets coolly around here,
> Up from the Mississippi,
> And I thank them daily for it.
> More than one story-set or circle of the world
> Calls life breath, the one and the all
> An old-time bellows or mill that moves particles
> Like Da Vinci drew
> Each pebble a point and a pointer, if marked,
> And of course a black square.
>
> 
> From: NetBehaviour  on behalf
> of Alan Sondheim 
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 6:11 PM
> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
> 
> Subject: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets
>
>
> Goddess of Storms and Alphabets
>
> http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030727.jpg
> http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030738.JPG
>
> I'm not sure how language would begin, not sure how language would
> be recorded as a gesture accompanied by a sound. Sure to be sounds
> accompanying gestures that hardened, somewhen into a signal or
> call, somehow a meaning. The sounds were ghostings, heard over the
> hill around the hill in the forest across the stream behind the
> rocks above the cliffs within the caves, the gestures were bodies,
> the bodies were breathing, there were two directions, into the
> lungs, out from the lungs. There were swirls and whirlwinds and the
> world breathed and was given body and bodies. It was cool to hear a
> knowledge from one who was knowing, invisible, elsewhere. There
> were cries too from the woundings, there were disappearances of
> familiar voices from leaving and dying which returned in memories
> and dreams made real with them, the waking in the night, the
> weeping and ululations. The world was enormous and narrow and all
> around and the same for many comings and goings for weeks and
> months at a time, or just a vision around the boulder surface or
> from the sky when things moved there, as they always did. The world
> was always different than the world, and always new and old, and
> always the world. The murmuring of the world was everywhere and
> everywhen and when that became language and accountancy, everything
> moved away, quietly, until distance itself became unfathomable,
> unknown even in its familiarity. Sure to be sounds, sure to be.
>
>
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
>

web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552
current text http://www.alansondheim.org/wj.txt
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[NetBehaviour] London ICA talk materials on "Somatic Ghosting"

[Alan Sondheim]

London ICA talk materials on "Somatic Ghosting"

http://www.alansondheim.org/wherewasi.jpg
http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030770.JPG

The */scattered matrix of/* the texts/theory so far -

http://www.alansondheim.org/ica.txt

Comments welcome, thanks -

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets

[Alan Sondheim]

love this, only wanted to say that there was always already grammar, 
always already structure to being in the world, not " Early folk creating 
grammar on the fly, far from learning it or being taught it. "
we were never, none of us in the world, nor animals, nor any, creating 
grammar that way; I remember Heinz von Foerster describing culture 
beginning with negation, even amoeba have culture, have that -


Best!, Alan

On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Max Herman via NetBehaviour wrote:



Take a pebble for instance, an item,
One of the few and many that can be picked up by hand.
Some are like this.
Some can also be instruments, sticks or stones, alongside the immovable
base-grounds.
Hence thou hast compositions, counting, forms, names, phrases, and such.
Early folk creating grammar on the fly, far from learning it or being taught
it.
What counts the quiet though, the quietus?
There can be no count without that, no seeing, not even any hearing.
Well the breathing counts it, says the brain.
Imagine all paint and no canvas!
You lose track of your sons.
Were they ever even yours, oh fleet of foot?
Wild turkeys cross the streets coolly around here,
Up from the Mississippi,
And I thank them daily for it.
More than one story-set or circle of the world
Calls life breath, the one and the all
An old-time bellows or mill that moves particles
Like Da Vinci drew
Each pebble a point and a pointer, if marked,
And of course a black square.


From: NetBehaviour  on behalf
of Alan Sondheim 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 6:11 PM
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity

Subject: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets


Goddess of Storms and Alphabets

http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030727.jpg
http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030738.JPG

I'm not sure how language would begin, not sure how language would
be recorded as a gesture accompanied by a sound. Sure to be sounds
accompanying gestures that hardened, somewhen into a signal or
call, somehow a meaning. The sounds were ghostings, heard over the
hill around the hill in the forest across the stream behind the
rocks above the cliffs within the caves, the gestures were bodies,
the bodies were breathing, there were two directions, into the
lungs, out from the lungs. There were swirls and whirlwinds and the
world breathed and was given body and bodies. It was cool to hear a
knowledge from one who was knowing, invisible, elsewhere. There
were cries too from the woundings, there were disappearances of
familiar voices from leaving and dying which returned in memories
and dreams made real with them, the waking in the night, the
weeping and ululations. The world was enormous and narrow and all
around and the same for many comings and goings for weeks and
months at a time, or just a vision around the boulder surface or
from the sky when things moved there, as they always did. The world
was always different than the world, and always new and old, and
always the world. The murmuring of the world was everywhere and
everywhen and when that became language and accountancy, everything
moved away, quietly, until distance itself became unfathomable,
unknown even in its familiarity. Sure to be sounds, sure to be.


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web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552
current text http://www.alansondheim.org/wj.txt
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets

[Michael Szpakowski]

Again , great. Incredibly idiosyncratic ( thee & thou, for example ) and none 
the worse for that . I always enjoy reading things you write Max but there’s 
something about the discipline of verse that injects a huge amount of 
confidence and grace... it’s feels a bit like literary tight rope walking, in 
the best possible sense...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, 5:53 pm, Max Herman via NetBehaviour 
 wrote:

#yiv6175070203 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}
Take a pebble for instance, an item, One of the few and many that can be picked 
up by hand.Some are like this.Some can also be instruments, sticks or stones, 
alongside the immovable base-grounds.Hence thou hast compositions, counting, 
forms, names, phrases, and such.Early folk creating grammar on the fly, far 
from learning it or being taught it.What counts the quiet though, the 
quietus?There can be no count without that, no seeing, not even any 
hearing.Well the breathing counts it, says the brain.Imagine all paint and no 
canvas!You lose track of your sons.  Were they ever even yours, oh fleet of 
foot?Wild turkeys cross the streets coolly around here,Up from the 
Mississippi,And I thank them daily for it.More than one story-set or circle of 
the world Calls life breath, the one and the allAn old-time bellows or mill 
that moves particlesLike Da Vinci drewEach pebble a point and a pointer, if 
marked,And of course a black square.
From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Alan Sondheim 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 6:11 PM
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 

Subject: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets 

Goddess of Storms and Alphabets

http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030727.jpg
http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030738.JPG

I'm not sure how language would begin, not sure how language would
be recorded as a gesture accompanied by a sound. Sure to be sounds
accompanying gestures that hardened, somewhen into a signal or
call, somehow a meaning. The sounds were ghostings, heard over the
hill around the hill in the forest across the stream behind the
rocks above the cliffs within the caves, the gestures were bodies,
the bodies were breathing, there were two directions, into the
lungs, out from the lungs. There were swirls and whirlwinds and the
world breathed and was given body and bodies. It was cool to hear a
knowledge from one who was knowing, invisible, elsewhere. There
were cries too from the woundings, there were disappearances of
familiar voices from leaving and dying which returned in memories
and dreams made real with them, the waking in the night, the
weeping and ululations. The world was enormous and narrow and all
around and the same for many comings and goings for weeks and
months at a time, or just a vision around the boulder surface or
from the sky when things moved there, as they always did. The world
was always different than the world, and always new and old, and
always the world. The murmuring of the world was everywhere and
everywhen and when that became language and accountancy, everything
moved away, quietly, until distance itself became unfathomable,
unknown even in its familiarity. Sure to be sounds, sure to be.


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Re: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets

[Max Herman via NetBehaviour]

Take a pebble for instance, an item,
One of the few and many that can be picked up by hand.
Some are like this.
Some can also be instruments, sticks or stones, alongside the immovable 
base-grounds.
Hence thou hast compositions, counting, forms, names, phrases, and such.
Early folk creating grammar on the fly, far from learning it or being taught it.
What counts the quiet though, the quietus?
There can be no count without that, no seeing, not even any hearing.
Well the breathing counts it, says the brain.
Imagine all paint and no canvas!
You lose track of your sons.
Were they ever even yours, oh fleet of foot?
Wild turkeys cross the streets coolly around here,
Up from the Mississippi,
And I thank them daily for it.
More than one story-set or circle of the world
Calls life breath, the one and the all
An old-time bellows or mill that moves particles
Like Da Vinci drew
Each pebble a point and a pointer, if marked,
And of course a black square.


From: NetBehaviour  on behalf of 
Alan Sondheim 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 6:11 PM
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 

Subject: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets



Goddess of Storms and Alphabets

http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030727.jpg
http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030738.JPG

I'm not sure how language would begin, not sure how language would
be recorded as a gesture accompanied by a sound. Sure to be sounds
accompanying gestures that hardened, somewhen into a signal or
call, somehow a meaning. The sounds were ghostings, heard over the
hill around the hill in the forest across the stream behind the
rocks above the cliffs within the caves, the gestures were bodies,
the bodies were breathing, there were two directions, into the
lungs, out from the lungs. There were swirls and whirlwinds and the
world breathed and was given body and bodies. It was cool to hear a
knowledge from one who was knowing, invisible, elsewhere. There
were cries too from the woundings, there were disappearances of
familiar voices from leaving and dying which returned in memories
and dreams made real with them, the waking in the night, the
weeping and ululations. The world was enormous and narrow and all
around and the same for many comings and goings for weeks and
months at a time, or just a vision around the boulder surface or
from the sky when things moved there, as they always did. The world
was always different than the world, and always new and old, and
always the world. The murmuring of the world was everywhere and
everywhen and when that became language and accountancy, everything
moved away, quietly, until distance itself became unfathomable,
unknown even in its familiarity. Sure to be sounds, sure to be.


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[NetBehaviour] Open Call for The Burrow

[Aad Björkro via NetBehaviour]

 For a prettier version of this call see h.aard.work/call

*The Burrow* is an online show part of the Very Large Works pavilion in The
Wrong Biennale (Nov 2019 - Mar 2020): Inspired by the Aardvark; who digs to
escape when attacked and will leave its home for others to use when
relocating. The aardvark reminds us to think with our claws; no one expects
us to dig when they force us to move, still in compliance but keeping our
space. Then we can tickle the feet of our oppressors as they try to pass.

Here we will comfort the hidden and deride the veiled, invite the reclusive
and berate the secluded. Here we can listen to those who must never speak,
look for things we have lost and spy on spies spying on us. We are looking
to explore themes of the hidden, silent, overlooked or secretive; the
forgotten and misremembered; and the self-defeating. To contend feedback
loops without feedback or to amuse the trapped.

To participate you may submit *works* or *tunnels*, for online display. For
works most media are welcome; A/V, image, text, documentation, (other).
*Tunnels* are two-way connections with other projects; want to run a mutual
ad-campaign, have The Burrow take part in a project we also display or make
infinite mirrors with iframes? Get in touch.
---
The Burrow is a secondary space of the Very Large Works pavilion in The
Wrong's online biennial (Nov 2019 - Mar 2020). For more info on these, see:
verylarge.works/call.html, thewrong.org

To participate in the burrow, you are invited to *subscribe *to the discussion
list . Submit
works, ideas for tunnels, and pose questions by writing to the list or by
emailing directly to: yesre...@aard.work

*Links:*
The Burrow Maillist:
http://lists.noemata.net/listinfo.cgi/theburrow-noemata.net
The Burrow Open Call: https://h.aard.work/call
The Burrow Contact: yesre...@aard.work

*Context:*
Very Large Works Open Call: http://verylarge.works/call.html
The Wrong Biennale Info: http://thewrong.org
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