Re: [NetBehaviour] Pall Thayer's Personal Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation...
hi pall, thanks very much for this elaboration. i have one question which relates to the point about netart 2.0 not being epic, where you say A call for work that states that works should be no longer than xx minutes automatically excludes netart. i work in cyberformance - live online performance - which pretty much fits all of the points apart from this one; in fact this week we'll be sending out a call for performances that will state a time limit ; ) i regard this area of practice as being a part of the bigger field of netart (as well as other linked/overlapping and sometimes disparate fields such as networked performance, digital performance, theatre, etc) but according to this point in your manifesto, it's not ... (maybe it's net art?) you say that netart 2.0 has the potential to keep going forever therefore it has to keep going - but you've also said that it doesn't have to be interactive just because it can be. so why do you think it can't or shouldn't stop? there must be heaps of examples of work (performances for starters, but also many other forms of netart) that don't keep going forever, especially those that depend on technology that becomes obsolete. h : ) Hi people, I just stumbled across a thread on Netbehaviour from a few weeks ago discussing a brief and perhaps slightly cryptic manifesto I wrote a couple of years ago. In the thread, Marc Garrett ponders whether or not he should ask me to clarify. Well, he didn't but I'm more than happy to do so anyway. First of all, I'm surprised this popped up at all since when I wrote it I announced it once on Rhizome and haven't mentioned it since. I don't even have a link to it on my sight even though it still resides on my server. The manifesto was written in part out of frustration. Frustration with what I felt had become common assumptions regarding networked art that I didn't (and don't) agree with. These assumptions were things I came across in calls for work, theoretical writings on networked art and various other formal and informal descriptions of networked art. So here comes a somewhat more detailed discussion of the manifesto and its parts. Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation Initial draft October 18, 2006 Netart 2.0 is not net.art ++The internet has changed a lot in recent years. Casual Internet users have become content producers as well as content consumers. These shifts in the way the public uses the internet is reflected in more recent netart. Netart 2.0 is dynamic ++Whereas a lot of the older netart was essentially static, i.e. a lot of the Flash and pure html/javascript type stuff, recent developments such as public API's and xml feeds, have made the tracking and usage of recently updated material easier than it was before. Therefore, more recent netart works are much more dynamic than their earlier counterparts. The result is work that doesn't outdate as far as material goes. The content of the work follows popular trends even as those trends evolve. Netart 2.0 cannot function without an active network connection ++Because of what I mentioned in the previous section, it's impossible to download this type of work and run it without a network connection which is something you could do with a lot of the older net.art. You could download the whole site and run it locally. You can't download all of http://flickr.comflickr.com or all of the blogs on http://technorati.comtechnorati.com and then run them locally. The work doesn't function at all without a constantly active network connection. A gallery that requests an emergency version of work to run locally in case something goes wrong with the network connection really misunderstands netart. Netart 2.0 may or may not be interactive ++Direct interactivity is not a requirement in netart. A lot of interesting work has been made over the years that doesn't involve interaction from the viewer. For some reason, some people seem to assume that all netart engages the viewer interactively. Just because it can doesn't mean that it has to. Netart 2.0 may or may not be accessible on-line ++That a work of art is categorized as netart doesn't automatically mean that it can be viewed over the network. It simply means that the work utilizes the network in a persistently active way. Netart 2.0 must appeal to at least one of the human senses ++Netart doesn't have to include video and text and audio, etc. Even if it contains only one of these, it can still be valid netart. Sometimes less is more. Netart 2.0 reflects contemporary culture ++This harks back to Netart 2.0 is dynamic. Current netart has the ability to reflect contemporary culture even as culture progresses and changes. Netart 2.0 is not epic ++Netart, because it has the potential to continue running forever, doesn't reach a point of finality. It doesn't start here and end there. It just goes on and on. A call for work that states that
Re: [NetBehaviour] Pall Thayer's Personal Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation...
Hi Helen, As Marc correctly mentioned in one of the posts about this, this was something I wrote in regards to my own personal practice. The 2.0 tag is of course a reference to Web 2.0 that produced a huge leap in the amount of content being produced by the casual Internet user. So much that it pretty much produces an endless amount of material for the Netart 2.0 artist to work from. In regards to my personal conceptual concerns that basically means that the work can't end because I don't really provide myself with any means of limiting the amount of content I use. I also thought that the line Netart 2.0 is not epic. sounded really cool :-). There is one important point that I neglected to mention in my previous post in regards to the title of the manifesto. The reason it's called a Manifesto of Variable Manifestation is that it can change whenever and/or however anyone chooses. So, you are free to use the manifesto and remove that line if it suits you :-) It also comes with no copyright. Not even a creative commons license. No attribution is required, nothing. So you could remove the epic line and call it the Networked Performance 2.0 Manifesto of Variable Manifestation. I suggest you hang on to the Variable Manifestation bit just in case you want to change it or someone challenges you on it at a later time. Yes, there are works that stop at a certain time due to technological changes but my thinking on this is along the lines that when the work is started up it has the potential to go on forever. Of course it won't because even if the creator is lucky enough to escape network configuration changes and the likes the hardware will at some time give up or technology will advance beyond the work. Like with all of the work that was designed to run on Mac OS 9. So any sensible person will understand that the work isn't going to run forever but at the moment of initiation, it does in fact have that potential because we don't know how or when things will change enough for the piece to stop functioning correctly. The interactive issue is a bit tricky, I admit. As I mentioned, all work that uses the internet is going to be interactive since the computers are, at the very least, interacting with the network. But in the manifesto statement I'm referring more to viewer interaction. There is a wide-spread assumption that this sort of work always offers some form of viewer interaction. I'm simply pointing out that there is nothing about Netart that makes this a requirement. If we're talking about something we call Interactive Art I can see this as being a requirement but not in Netart. best regards, Pall Thayer On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Helen Varley Jamieson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi pall, thanks very much for this elaboration. i have one question which relates to the point about netart 2.0 not being epic, where you say A call for work that states that works should be no longer than xx minutes automatically excludes netart. i work in cyberformance - live online performance - which pretty much fits all of the points apart from this one; in fact this week we'll be sending out a call for performances that will state a time limit ; ) i regard this area of practice as being a part of the bigger field of netart (as well as other linked/overlapping and sometimes disparate fields such as networked performance, digital performance, theatre, etc) but according to this point in your manifesto, it's not ... (maybe it's net art?) you say that netart 2.0 has the potential to keep going forever therefore it has to keep going - but you've also said that it doesn't have to be interactive just because it can be. so why do you think it can't or shouldn't stop? there must be heaps of examples of work (performances for starters, but also many other forms of netart) that don't keep going forever, especially those that depend on technology that becomes obsolete. h : ) Hi people, I just stumbled across a thread on Netbehaviour from a few weeks ago discussing a brief and perhaps slightly cryptic manifesto I wrote a couple of years ago. In the thread, Marc Garrett ponders whether or not he should ask me to clarify. Well, he didn't but I'm more than happy to do so anyway. First of all, I'm surprised this popped up at all since when I wrote it I announced it once on Rhizome and haven't mentioned it since. I don't even have a link to it on my sight even though it still resides on my server. The manifesto was written in part out of frustration. Frustration with what I felt had become common assumptions regarding networked art that I didn't (and don't) agree with. These assumptions were things I came across in calls for work, theoretical writings on networked art and various other formal and informal descriptions of networked art. So here comes a somewhat more detailed discussion of the manifesto and its parts. Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation Initial draft October 18,
Re: [NetBehaviour] Pall Thayer's Personal Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation...
Hi people,I just stumbled across a thread on Netbehaviour from a few weeks ago discussing a brief and perhaps slightly cryptic manifesto I wrote a couple of years ago. In the thread, Marc Garrett ponders whether or not he should ask me to clarify. Well, he didn't but I'm more than happy to do so anyway. First of all, I'm surprised this popped up at all since when I wrote it I announced it once on Rhizome and haven't mentioned it since. I don't even have a link to it on my sight even though it still resides on my server. The manifesto was written in part out of frustration. Frustration with what I felt had become common assumptions regarding networked art that I didn't (and don't) agree with. These assumptions were things I came across in calls for work, theoretical writings on networked art and various other formal and informal descriptions of networked art. So here comes a somewhat more detailed discussion of the manifesto and its parts. Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation Initial draft October 18, 2006 Netart 2.0 is not net.art ++The internet has changed a lot in recent years. Casual Internet users have become content producers as well as content consumers. These shifts in the way the public uses the internet is reflected in more recent netart. Netart 2.0 is dynamic ++Whereas a lot of the older netart was essentially static, i.e. a lot of the Flash and pure html/javascript type stuff, recent developments such as public API's and xml feeds, have made the tracking and usage of recently updated material easier than it was before. Therefore, more recent netart works are much more dynamic than their earlier counterparts. The result is work that doesn't outdate as far as material goes. The content of the work follows popular trends even as those trends evolve. Netart 2.0 cannot function without an active network connection ++Because of what I mentioned in the previous section, it's impossible to download this type of work and run it without a network connection which is something you could do with a lot of the older net.art. You could download the whole site and run it locally. You can't download all of flickr.com or all of the blogs on technorati.com and then run them locally. The work doesn't function at all without a constantly active network connection. A gallery that requests an emergency version of work to run locally in case something goes wrong with the network connection really misunderstands netart. Netart 2.0 may or may not be interactive ++Direct interactivity is not a requirement in netart. A lot of interesting work has been made over the years that doesn't involve interaction from the viewer. For some reason, some people seem to assume that all netart engages the viewer interactively. Just because it can doesn't mean that it has to. Netart 2.0 may or may not be accessible on-line ++That a work of art is categorized as netart doesn't automatically mean that it can be viewed over the network. It simply means that the work utilizes the network in a persistently active way. Netart 2.0 must appeal to at least one of the human senses ++Netart doesn't have to include video and text and audio, etc. Even if it contains only one of these, it can still be valid netart. Sometimes less is more. Netart 2.0 reflects contemporary culture ++This harks back to Netart 2.0 is dynamic. Current netart has the ability to reflect contemporary culture even as culture progresses and changes. Netart 2.0 is not epic ++Netart, because it has the potential to continue running forever, doesn't reach a point of finality. It doesn't start here and end there. It just goes on and on. A call for work that states that works should be no longer than xx minutes automatically excludes netart. Netart 2.0 is not science ++Netart projects are art projects, not science projects. I personally don't think a project can really work as both science and art. The goals are very different. Yet we hear various different mixtures of the terms blurring, boundaries, art and science. Also, there are many who assume that any computer-based art is due to collaborations between scientists and artists. This is not necessarily the case and in my personal view, computer-based art created by artists alone is much more compelling than that which is created in collaboration with people from the computing sciences. Netart 2.0 is historically grounded ++Netart is something new (yes, compared to painting, sculpture, etc. it's still new). But it's not without precedence. It is a logical contemporary shift in the arts that follows from closely related history that doesn't necessarily involve computers or technology. Netart 2.0 cannot function without electricity ++Hmmm I don't remember why I put this in there but netart obviously cannot function without electricity. Netart 2.0 is automated ++Touching again on the idea of art that follows contemporary culture, painters and sculptors can of course allow their work to follow
Re: [NetBehaviour] Pall Thayer's Personal Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation...
edward's post reminded me of this earlier post from marc. distant is clearly Netart 2.0 as well as Net art, net art, netart, net-art, net_art and possibly even net.art but then that would disqualify it from being Netart 2.0 ... but maybe it's not Netart 2.0 anyway if it's dependent on the web ... Hi everyone, Just discovered Pall Thayer's own Manifesto on Net Art, which I presume is regarding is reflecting his own practice and connecting to contemporary networked culture and Net Art as well. Just wondering what others thought about this? marc Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation Initial draft October 18, 2006 Netart 2.0 is not net.art Netart 2.0 is dynamic Netart 2.0 cannot function without an active network connection Netart 2.0 may or may not be interactive Netart 2.0 may or may not be accessible on-line Netart 2.0 must appeal to at least one of the human senses Netart 2.0 reflects contemporary culture Netart 2.0 is not epic Netart 2.0 is not science Netart 2.0 is historically grounded Netart 2.0 cannot function without electricity Netart 2.0 is automated Netart 2.0 is not virtual Netart 2.0 is not dependent upon The World Wide Web no copyright Pall Thayer http://pallit.lhi.is/netart_2_0.html ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- helen varley jamieson: creative catalyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.creative-catalyst.com http://www.avatarbodycollision.org http://www.upstage.org.nz http://www.writerfind.com/hjamieson.htm ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] Pall Thayer's Personal Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation...
Hi, this is just as helpful as http://easylife.org/netart/. cheers Sim marc garrett schrieb: Hi everyone, Just discovered Pall Thayer's own Manifesto on Net Art, which I presume is regarding is reflecting his own practice and connecting to contemporary networked culture and Net Art as well. Just wondering what others thought about this? marc Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation Initial draft October 18, 2006 Netart 2.0 is not net.art Netart 2.0 is dynamic Netart 2.0 cannot function without an active network connection Netart 2.0 may or may not be interactive Netart 2.0 may or may not be accessible on-line Netart 2.0 must appeal to at least one of the human senses Netart 2.0 reflects contemporary culture Netart 2.0 is not epic Netart 2.0 is not science Netart 2.0 is historically grounded Netart 2.0 cannot function without electricity Netart 2.0 is automated Netart 2.0 is not virtual Netart 2.0 is not dependent upon The World Wide Web no copyright Pall Thayer http://pallit.lhi.is/netart_2_0.html ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] Pall Thayer's Personal Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation...
Hi Sim,
As mentioned, this is his Thayer's own manifesto it is probably
reflecting his own practice, but I would prefer more explanations and
context added to the definitions.
Perhaps I should ask him to discuss it more?
this is just as helpful as http://easylife.org/netart/
Well, the above link is more for a small group of people, those who
became 'net.art('ists), consciously separating themselves from other Net
Artists at the time - thus becoming the 'heroic period' gurus of the
Internet from mid-90's.
As many are aware by now that I do not really respect such a position of
control over Net Art history, although some of these people still have
produced excellent pieces, it's just the elitist way that they went
about getting themselves seen which I question, not necessarily the work.
marc
Hi,
this is just as helpful as http://easylife.org/netart/.
cheers
Sim
marc garrett schrieb:
Hi everyone,
Just discovered Pall Thayer's own Manifesto on Net Art, which I presume
is regarding is reflecting his own practice and connecting to
contemporary networked culture and Net Art as well.
Just wondering what others thought about this?
marc
Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation
Initial draft October 18, 2006
Netart 2.0 is not net.art
Netart 2.0 is dynamic
Netart 2.0 cannot function without an active network connection
Netart 2.0 may or may not be interactive
Netart 2.0 may or may not be accessible on-line
Netart 2.0 must appeal to at least one of the human senses
Netart 2.0 reflects contemporary culture
Netart 2.0 is not epic
Netart 2.0 is not science
Netart 2.0 is historically grounded
Netart 2.0 cannot function without electricity
Netart 2.0 is automated
Netart 2.0 is not virtual
Netart 2.0 is not dependent upon The World Wide Web
no copyright
Pall Thayer
http://pallit.lhi.is/netart_2_0.html
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[NetBehaviour] Pall Thayer's Personal Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation...
Hi everyone, Just discovered Pall Thayer's own Manifesto on Net Art, which I presume is regarding is reflecting his own practice and connecting to contemporary networked culture and Net Art as well. Just wondering what others thought about this? marc Netart 2.0: A Manifesto of Variable Manifestation Initial draft October 18, 2006 Netart 2.0 is not net.art Netart 2.0 is dynamic Netart 2.0 cannot function without an active network connection Netart 2.0 may or may not be interactive Netart 2.0 may or may not be accessible on-line Netart 2.0 must appeal to at least one of the human senses Netart 2.0 reflects contemporary culture Netart 2.0 is not epic Netart 2.0 is not science Netart 2.0 is historically grounded Netart 2.0 cannot function without electricity Netart 2.0 is automated Netart 2.0 is not virtual Netart 2.0 is not dependent upon The World Wide Web no copyright Pall Thayer http://pallit.lhi.is/netart_2_0.html ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
