Re: NetBSD-friendly HDD recovery?
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 11:54:41AM -0600, David Young wrote: > > I want to avoid paying a steep price to a service that scans the > > medium and, finding no FAT/NTFS/HFS+/APFS volume on it, declares it > > unrecoverable when, in actual fact, every bit is intact. Is there a > > service that I can trust my NetBSD disk to that has a reasonable fee > > structure? X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfNaO/uhadDlolDP43vqPZS/MYlw7VaTrUleXS7OiANt3YYiieh8/FZJXbGwxyd+n8voRQEWGLzKvFBCyTVIkqusZYoy+6LA8irMCZjAVzYseGJMzlzYV jUvdy7tEbEqXDZij12mRpFmRfo7yhyl4FWf0BdAyFE/ngp+0XLtxdKQu > Perhaps you can find one that will provide a binary blob of this disk > contents so > you can loop mount the file and recover stuff. As for cost I think the > attitude of > the data recovery places is that they have you by the short and curlies so > they can > charge what they like, I know that recovery can be complex and challenging > but the > pricing does seem excessive. > If you have the same model drive you could take the electronics board off a > working > drive and put it on the dead one - I have done that in the past to good > effect. > Brett Lymn Are you thinking of something that acts like dd on the whole disk but using special data-recovery methods? That would require a medium having equal or greater data capacity. Taking the electronics board off a working drive to transfer to a dead drive carries the risk of messing up and losing both drives. I don't think I'd be daring enough. The hard-drive manufacturer would surely advise against taking off the electronics board and would point out that it would void the warranty. Tom
Re: GeForce - double crash with nouveau (boot and X11)
On 24.11.2020 02:14, Riccardo Mottola wrote: Hi all,, I got a used laptop and sadly it has a nvidia 7300 card Sadly because I know they are troublesome - they work(ed) well on linux and freebsd until they stopped providing a current binary legacy driver, then you can trash it, apparently. I read that nouveau supports it, so let's try! FreeBSD has no nouveau, so, let's try NetBSD! CD-ROM in, boot crashes. I need to boot -c and disable nouveau. I install NetBSD and of course the next reboot, it will hang again, I disable nouveau (I have done screeshot with the backtrace) With nouveau in the kernel disabled, I do try X11. Does it make sense at all to ty the nouveau driver if it is disabled in the kernel? I don't know if it is needed for console only or for both console and X11. I get garbage on the screen and if I change console, I get a reboot! yay! And a rebot an empty Xorg file Fine, I try the trick of telnet into the box, start X "remote"... and run it. What I see at the end is: [ 464.423] (==) Not automatically adding GPU devices [ 464.423] (==) Max clients allowed: 256, resource mask: 0x1f [ 464.423] (**) FontPath set to: /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/misc/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/misc/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/ [ 464.423] (**) ModulePath set to "/usr/X11R7/lib/modules" [ 464.423] Number of created screens does not match number of detected devices. Configuration failed. [ 464.423] (EE) Server terminated with error (2). Closing log file. I notice that X went through all the drivers and that the driver list is doubled even (every driver appears twice). So I think nouveau has an issue. Now the next bet would be to try the old "nv" driver. I cobble together a quick xorg file, but I get garbage and it says that no GPUs are found and get a crash. I restart, disable loading of all modules and this time i get "garbage" on the screen, but if I move the mouse I see a square garbage moving! so something "is alive", no errors in Xorg.log except: [ 252.202] (EE) DMA drain timeout Any suggestions? I'd like to get nv working but even more nouveau of course (here I think some kernel and drm debugging is required) What version of NetBSD did you try? Did you check with current snapshot? https://nycdn.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD-daily/HEAD/latest/images/ I am almost tempted to try out Linux to see if nouveau works on that card (it should work, per spec) and/or if nv works there as a "reference" against BSD, but it is of course extra effort and I need a second hard disk to poke with that maybe, while hopefully we debug NetBSD Riccardo
GeForce - double crash with nouveau (boot and X11)
Hi all,, I got a used laptop and sadly it has a nvidia 7300 card Sadly because I know they are troublesome - they work(ed) well on linux and freebsd until they stopped providing a current binary legacy driver, then you can trash it, apparently. I read that nouveau supports it, so let's try! FreeBSD has no nouveau, so, let's try NetBSD! CD-ROM in, boot crashes. I need to boot -c and disable nouveau. I install NetBSD and of course the next reboot, it will hang again, I disable nouveau (I have done screeshot with the backtrace) With nouveau in the kernel disabled, I do try X11. Does it make sense at all to ty the nouveau driver if it is disabled in the kernel? I don't know if it is needed for console only or for both console and X11. I get garbage on the screen and if I change console, I get a reboot! yay! And a rebot an empty Xorg file Fine, I try the trick of telnet into the box, start X "remote"... and run it. What I see at the end is: [ 464.423] (==) Not automatically adding GPU devices [ 464.423] (==) Max clients allowed: 256, resource mask: 0x1f [ 464.423] (**) FontPath set to: /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/misc/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/misc/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/, /usr/X11R7/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/ [ 464.423] (**) ModulePath set to "/usr/X11R7/lib/modules" [ 464.423] Number of created screens does not match number of detected devices. Configuration failed. [ 464.423] (EE) Server terminated with error (2). Closing log file. I notice that X went through all the drivers and that the driver list is doubled even (every driver appears twice). So I think nouveau has an issue. Now the next bet would be to try the old "nv" driver. I cobble together a quick xorg file, but I get garbage and it says that no GPUs are found and get a crash. I restart, disable loading of all modules and this time i get "garbage" on the screen, but if I move the mouse I see a square garbage moving! so something "is alive", no errors in Xorg.log except: [ 252.202] (EE) DMA drain timeout Any suggestions? I'd like to get nv working but even more nouveau of course (here I think some kernel and drm debugging is required) I am almost tempted to try out Linux to see if nouveau works on that card (it should work, per spec) and/or if nv works there as a "reference" against BSD, but it is of course extra effort and I need a second hard disk to poke with that maybe, while hopefully we debug NetBSD Riccardo
Re: NetBSD-friendly HDD recovery?
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:54:41 -0600 David Young wrote: > I have some old Seagate-brand spinning rust with a NetBSD system on > it. The disk does not spin up, but I am pretty sure that the content is > intact, and I would like to have it for a reasonable price. Is there a > service that's known to be NetBSD friendly? ACE Data Recovery https://www.datarecovery.net/ I had a FreeBSD ZFS filesystem that I thoroughly screwed up due to my own negligence. They wanted $1800 to recover it. They had to put another head and actuator in it to get anything at all. They were able to recover a lot of old stuff that I had old backups for, but couldn't recover the stuff from the last year when I had no backup. After a few months of trying they gave up and gave us the disk drive *and money* back. I Highly recommend them. -- Ted Spradley
Re: .cshrc elm and PIDs
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 11:50:06PM +0700, Robert Elz wrote: > > Why not just do that before running the first elm? (inside the if). > Does that alias do anything other that remove junk old temp files or > directories? > I don't want to start a MUA war but just want to share my experience. I too was a long time elm user but found that at $WORK it would core dump when reading my mailbox due to some email it didnt like. To recover I had to use another MUA to delete the offending email before I could use elm again. The crashes started happening more frequently and I lacked time to fix the code so I, with regret, switched to another MUA. -- Brett Lymn -- Sent from my NetBSD device. "We are were wolves", "You mean werewolves?", "No we were wolves, now we are something else entirely", "Oh"
Re: NetBSD-friendly HDD recovery?
On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 11:54:41AM -0600, David Young wrote: > > I want to avoid paying a steep price to a service that scans the > medium and, finding no FAT/NTFS/HFS+/APFS volume on it, declares it > unrecoverable when, in actual fact, every bit is intact. Is there a > service that I can trust my NetBSD disk to that has a reasonable fee > structure? > Perhaps you can find one that will provide a binary blob of this disk contents so you can loop mount the file and recover stuff. As for cost I think the attitude of the data recovery places is that they have you by the short and curlies so they can charge what they like, I know that recovery can be complex and challenging but the pricing does seem excessive. If you have the same model drive you could take the electronics board off a working drive and put it on the dead one - I have done that in the past to good effect. -- Brett Lymn -- Sent from my NetBSD device. "We are were wolves", "You mean werewolves?", "No we were wolves, now we are something else entirely", "Oh"
NetBSD-friendly HDD recovery?
I have some old Seagate-brand spinning rust with a NetBSD system on it. The disk does not spin up, but I am pretty sure that the content is intact, and I would like to have it for a reasonable price. Is there a service that's known to be NetBSD friendly? Last time I checked, recovery cost about $500 USD. IIRC, you paid that regardless of whether recovery was successful. Some recovery services clearly were middlemen. You could send a disk directly to Seagate for recovery. No recovery service acknowledged the existence of BSD or FFS. I want to avoid paying a steep price to a service that scans the medium and, finding no FAT/NTFS/HFS+/APFS volume on it, declares it unrecoverable when, in actual fact, every bit is intact. Is there a service that I can trust my NetBSD disk to that has a reasonable fee structure? Dave -- David Young dyo...@pobox.comUrbana, IL(217) 721-9981
Re: .cshrc elm and PIDs
Date:Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:09:57 + (UTC) From:st...@prd.co.uk (Steve Blinkhorn) Message-ID: <20201123130958.2f083b36...@viking.prd.co.uk> | pgrep -u `id -u` elm David Brownless already said that you need >/dev/null on that line (or perhaps >&/dev/null so stderr gets redirected as well). That's where the pid is coming from, pgrep outputs the pid of matching processes. | - if elm fails (always because a temporary file alread exists), use CM | (a local alias that removes the temporary file) Why not just do that before running the first elm? (inside the if). Does that alias do anything other that remove junk old temp files or directories? It isn't that this is wrong, but that if elm exits with bad status for any other reason (say it gets a hangup signal, or a SIGTERM, or some other error it cannot recover from - I have never used elm, so I don't know what might happen) then you're going to start another elm process (in the case where the first one did not fail to start) which probably is not what you want to do. | BUT the PID for the successful elm process keeps showing up in the | text when I'm writing emails, because of that output from pgrep. .cshrc is executed every time a csh starts, and that happens far more often than you'd possibly expect, for all kinds of purposes, including from some programs in order to: | and ~ substitution doesn't work within elm, expand the ~ shells know how to do that, so other processes tend to simply start a shell to get the result rather than programming it themselves. So, every time a ~ (or anything else elm or vi happens to use $SHELL to accomplish) needs to be expanded, a new csh is run, that runs the .cshrc and as you have it, that output's elm's pid. The '>/dev/null' should fix all of that - but you might want to consider whether using .login (or an X startup script) might not be a better place to do this, rather than simply trying to start elm any time any csh is run. | I'm guessing that umask is internal to csh, Yes. | so elm is the last process to be started from .cshrc. Probably, but that's not relevant, in the cases that matter it is already running, will be found by the pgrep, and so not started again, in those cases the pgrep is the last (or only) process run from the .cshrc. Ideally, .cshrc (and $ENV for sh users) shouldn't be running any processes at all, just doing internal shell setup (the umask command is a good example of what can be put there). kre
Re: .cshrc elm and PIDs
You wrote: > >/dev/null to the pgrep line. > > To track down the cause... > Are you running this script in the background, or re-running it > periodically (at a time which would account for the PID showing up in > the text)? > Maybe add a "date >> $HOME/log" to the script to record when it gets run > > On the ~ - is that form within elm or within vi-in-elm? (Sorry, its > been too long since I switched to pine for my elm neurons :-p > > David > Do you have any of your setup conditionalised on being in an interactive > shell? > Blackholing the output of pgrep seems to have fixed it. Without that the PID of any running elm process on that account shows up on a line by itself after the "you have mail" notification before the first csh prompt, before the ~ if trying to read from a file in vi, or running an external program over part of a vi buffer. It's not restricted to vi-in-elm, so elm itself is probably not implicated. I imagine it's left hanging around in a buffer in the shell and never gets cleared deown. Thanks for spending so many action potentials (and glial cell support - never forget the glia) on my issue. -- Steve Blinkhorn
Re: .cshrc elm and PIDs
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 at 13:10, Steve Blinkhorn wrote: > > I monitor incoming emails on several user accounts in xterms stacked > in one icewm workspace. Being long in the tooth I use elm for email > and csh as my shell, and have done since the Dawn of Time. > > If a system reboot is needed, setting these (and various other > workspaces) up by hand can be laborious. So my X startup files are > configured to start a whole bunch of xterms in a handful of > workspaces, and elm is started for the first xterm for each user > account from .cshrc thus: > > pgrep -u `id -u` elm > if ($status == 1) then > elm > if ($status == 1) then > CM > elm > endif > endif > > So we: > - check for the existence of an elm PID, failing which run elm > - if elm fails (always because a temporary file alread exists), use CM > (a local alias that removes the temporary file) > - run elm > > This makes a restart to the point where I can work very much faster. > BUT the PID for the successful elm process keeps showing up in the > text when I'm writing emails, and ~ substitution doesn't work within > elm, e.g. fro reading in the content of signature files (I use vi as > my editor, but I suppose you guessed that). > > There is only one further line in the .cshrc files, which is > > umask 022 > > I'm guessing that umask is internal to csh, so elm is the last process > to be started from .cshrc. But I'd like to understand what's going on > as well as fix it. To avoid the symptom of the PID showing up you should be able to add >/dev/null to the pgrep line. To track down the cause... Are you running this script in the background, or re-running it periodically (at a time which would account for the PID showing up in the text)? Maybe add a "date >> $HOME/log" to the script to record when it gets run On the ~ - is that form within elm or within vi-in-elm? (Sorry, its been too long since I switched to pine for my elm neurons :-p David Do you have any of your setup conditionalised on being in an interactive shell?
.cshrc elm and PIDs
I monitor incoming emails on several user accounts in xterms stacked in one icewm workspace. Being long in the tooth I use elm for email and csh as my shell, and have done since the Dawn of Time. If a system reboot is needed, setting these (and various other workspaces) up by hand can be laborious. So my X startup files are configured to start a whole bunch of xterms in a handful of workspaces, and elm is started for the first xterm for each user account from .cshrc thus: pgrep -u `id -u` elm if ($status == 1) then elm if ($status == 1) then CM elm endif endif So we: - check for the existence of an elm PID, failing which run elm - if elm fails (always because a temporary file alread exists), use CM (a local alias that removes the temporary file) - run elm This makes a restart to the point where I can work very much faster. BUT the PID for the successful elm process keeps showing up in the text when I'm writing emails, and ~ substitution doesn't work within elm, e.g. fro reading in the content of signature files (I use vi as my editor, but I suppose you guessed that). There is only one further line in the .cshrc files, which is umask 022 I'm guessing that umask is internal to csh, so elm is the last process to be started from .cshrc. But I'd like to understand what's going on as well as fix it. -- Steve Blinkhorn
Re: Firefox alternatives with JS : luakit?
On 23.11.2020 11:09, Sad Clouds wrote: On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 06:24:17 +0100 (CET) "Thomas Mueller" wrote: from Sad Clouds: > On Sun, 22 Nov 2020 16:29:27 +0530 > Mayuresh wrote: > > In the interim, would appreciate any feedback on luakit or other > > alternatives (with JS support). > x86 running Linux and Opera web browser. I gave up on Firefox years > ago. Unfortunately Opera don't provide binaries for NetBSD, but you > could try Linux emulation. I use Otter browser, which is in pkgsrc, FreeBSD ports, and haikuports. One good feature is being able to fake the user-agent for sites like Chase online banking that refuse to allow access if the user-agent is not to their software's liking Tom I had stability issues with Otter browser, random crashes, etc. Same thing happened with Firefox on sparc64. I just stick to x86 for desktop applications, where sparc64 and arm are more for tinkering and server applications. The web technology used to be small and lean many years ago, but now there is too much complexity and bloat. Because of this, it is becoming a monoculture of a handful of browser engines - Blink and Gecko. Don't even try to innovate, you'll be buried by the cost and complexity. Which is why everybody is switching to Blink, whether they like it or not. Those new Apple M1 CPUs are very interesting. As a HW. For sure they will improve situation on ARM field, but for Apple mostly :-) And in browsers it will be like you describe and as I said, we are returning to 90's, this time not with IE, but with Chrome
Re: Firefox alternatives with JS : luakit?
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 06:24:17 +0100 (CET) "Thomas Mueller" wrote: > from Sad Clouds: > > > On Sun, 22 Nov 2020 16:29:27 +0530 > > Mayuresh wrote: > > > > In the interim, would appreciate any feedback on luakit or other > > > alternatives (with JS support). > > > x86 running Linux and Opera web browser. I gave up on Firefox years > > ago. Unfortunately Opera don't provide binaries for NetBSD, but you > > could try Linux emulation. > > I use Otter browser, which is in pkgsrc, FreeBSD ports, and > haikuports. > > One good feature is being able to fake the user-agent for sites like > Chase online banking that refuse to allow access if the user-agent is > not to their software's liking > > Tom > I had stability issues with Otter browser, random crashes, etc. Same thing happened with Firefox on sparc64. I just stick to x86 for desktop applications, where sparc64 and arm are more for tinkering and server applications. The web technology used to be small and lean many years ago, but now there is too much complexity and bloat. Because of this, it is becoming a monoculture of a handful of browser engines - Blink and Gecko. Don't even try to innovate, you'll be buried by the cost and complexity. Which is why everybody is switching to Blink, whether they like it or not.
Re: Firefox alternatives with JS : luakit?
Den mån 23 nov. 2020 06:24Thomas Mueller skrev: > from Sad Clouds: > > > On Sun, 22 Nov 2020 16:29:27 +0530 > > Mayuresh wrote: > > > > In the interim, would appreciate any feedback on luakit or other > > > alternatives (with JS support). > > > x86 running Linux and Opera web browser. I gave up on Firefox years > > ago. Unfortunately Opera don't provide binaries for NetBSD, but you > > could try Linux emulation. > > I use Otter browser, which is in pkgsrc, FreeBSD ports, and haikuports. > > One good feature is being able to fake the user-agent for sites like Chase > online banking that refuse to allow access if the user-agent is not to > their software's liking > > Tom > Otter uses qtwebkit which is a security concern. Personally, I use badwolf. It has a JS on/off on a per tab feature. > >
