Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-02

2018-09-30 Thread Andy Bierman 
On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 4:28 PM, Anees Shaikh  wrote:

> I'm afraid I missed the discussion of tags at recent IETF meetings where
> this may have been covered.  In my read of this draft, I'm still not sure
> what the intended use cases are (i.e., is #hashtag ubiquity really the
> primary motivation)?   What is the difference with a tag extension?
>
>

The YANG extension vs. description-stmt issue is related to how the module
author
assigns a module-tag mapping to a module.


Perhaps it's overkill to have a separate use cases draft for such a small
> model, but I think the draft really does need a section or two explaining
> why and how this is envisioned to be used, and what server implementors are
> supposed to do with it.
>


A module-tag provides a 1:N mapping so instead of specifying (e.g.) every
routing module
by name, a tag like "routing" can be used instead.

This mapping allows the tag to be stable even if the modules in the mapping
are not stable.
The mappings can change release to release or server to server.

We have implemented module tags as a new filter type, for get and
get-config operations.,
as well as a rule-type for NACM rules.

I assume the plan is that NETMOD WG would work on the data model and
NETCONF WG
would eventually do the protocol work.



> thanks.
> -- Anees
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 4:15 PM Andy Bierman  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 1:17 PM, joel jaeggli  wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/26/18 09:23, Andy Bierman wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 9:09 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder
>>> > >> > > wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > It is even worse than a step backwards.
>>> > The draft specifies a lot of details about module tag conformance
>>> > that needs to be present in the description-stmt.
>>>
>>> this seems like an important issue to square away  before we  move ahead.
>>>
>>>
>> agreed.
>>
>> Also, what does it mean to match a module-tag?
>> There is text that implies it is an opaque string and other text that
>> suggests it is a colon-separated list of terms.
>> It cannot really be both.
>>
>>
>>
>>> > The idea that tools must screen-scrape description statements goes
>>> against
>>> > everything YANG-based management is all about. YANG has extension
>>> > statements, so we don't need to put complex syntax into comments and
>>> > descriptions..
>>>
>>> and parse descriptions for meaning.
>>>
>>
>> So what the choices?
>>
>> 1) IANA
>> 2) YANG extension
>> 3) ad-hoc
>> 4) do nothing
>>
>> IMO IANA has enough to do and it only covers IETF modules anyway, so (1)
>> is out.
>> The current approach is (3).  It is slightly better than (4), but there
>> is nothing
>> preventing every module from declaring the module tags differently.
>> This does not help the YANG reader (#1 priority).
>>
>> Only a YANG extension (or real statement in YANG 2.0) supports all modules
>> in a way that is consistent for all readers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> > IMO all text about module tag conformance and defining tags in
>>> > description-stmts
>>> > should be removed.  There is no explanation why a standard YANG module
>>> > would define multiple module-tags for the same module in the first
>>> place,
>>> > let alone why each different tag would have different conformance
>>> > requirements.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > .
>>> >
>>> > /js
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Andy
>>> >
>>>
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Juergen Schoenwaelder   Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
>>> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen |
>>> Germany
>>> 
>>> > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103 >> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ___
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>>> > netmod@ietf.org
>>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ___
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>
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Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-02

2018-09-30 Thread Andy Bierman 
On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 1:17 PM, joel jaeggli  wrote:

> On 9/26/18 09:23, Andy Bierman wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 9:09 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder
> >  > > wrote:
>
> >
> > It is even worse than a step backwards.
> > The draft specifies a lot of details about module tag conformance
> > that needs to be present in the description-stmt.
>
> this seems like an important issue to square away  before we  move ahead.
>
>
agreed.

Also, what does it mean to match a module-tag?
There is text that implies it is an opaque string and other text that
suggests it is a colon-separated list of terms.
It cannot really be both.



> > The idea that tools must screen-scrape description statements goes
> against
> > everything YANG-based management is all about. YANG has extension
> > statements, so we don't need to put complex syntax into comments and
> > descriptions..
>
> and parse descriptions for meaning.
>

So what the choices?

1) IANA
2) YANG extension
3) ad-hoc
4) do nothing

IMO IANA has enough to do and it only covers IETF modules anyway, so (1) is
out.
The current approach is (3).  It is slightly better than (4), but there is
nothing
preventing every module from declaring the module tags differently.
This does not help the YANG reader (#1 priority).

Only a YANG extension (or real statement in YANG 2.0) supports all modules
in a way that is consistent for all readers.




>
> > IMO all text about module tag conformance and defining tags in
> > description-stmts
> > should be removed.  There is no explanation why a standard YANG module
> > would define multiple module-tags for the same module in the first place,
> > let alone why each different tag would have different conformance
> > requirements.
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> > /js
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
>

Andy



> >
> >
> > --
> > Juergen Schoenwaelder   Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen |
> Germany
> > Fax:   +49 421 200 3103 
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > netmod mailing list
> > netmod@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-02

2018-09-30 Thread joel jaeggli 
On 9/26/18 09:23, Andy Bierman wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 9:09 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder
>  > wrote:

> 
> It is even worse than a step backwards.
> The draft specifies a lot of details about module tag conformance
> that needs to be present in the description-stmt.

this seems like an important issue to square away  before we  move ahead.

> The idea that tools must screen-scrape description statements goes against
> everything YANG-based management is all about. YANG has extension
> statements, so we don't need to put complex syntax into comments and
> descriptions..

and parse descriptions for meaning.

> IMO all text about module tag conformance and defining tags in
> description-stmts
> should be removed.  There is no explanation why a standard YANG module
> would define multiple module-tags for the same module in the first place,
> let alone why each different tag would have different conformance
> requirements.
> 
>  
> 
> .
> 
> /js
> 
> 
> Andy
>  
> 
> 
> -- 
> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         
> 
> 
> 
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> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> 




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[netmod] Important milestones for IETF 103

2018-09-30 Thread joel jaeggli 
Folks,

Important upcoming milestones for the IETF 103 Bankok meeting include:

2018-10-05  - Agenda published, and we will know when we are meeting.

2018-10-22  - Draft submission deadline, 2 weeks out from meeting.

2018-10-24 - Working group agendas due.

2018-11-03 - Meeting commences

Working backwards from that discussion of new submitted drafts aimed at
or before the deadline should really be underway by the time we have to
submit an agenda.

Thanks
Joel



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Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-00.txt

2018-09-30 Thread Qin Wu 
NMDA Base Notification has been updated based on discussion in last meeting and 
comments on the list
And resubmitted to Netmod WG as v-00 draft.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-00
Your review and comments are welcome.

-Qin
-邮件原件-
发件人: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-boun...@ietf.org] 代表 
internet-dra...@ietf.org
发送时间: 2018年9月14日 15:44
收件人: i-d-annou...@ietf.org
主题: I-D Action: draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-00.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


Title   : NMDA Base Notification for Applied Intended 
Configuration
Authors : Qin Wu
  Rohit R Ranade
Filename: draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-00.txt
Pages   : 15
Date: 2018-09-14

Abstract:
   The Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF)and RESTCONF provides
   mechanisms to manipulate configuration datastores.  NMDA introduces
   additional datastores for systems that support more advanced
   processing chains converting configuration to operational state.
   However, client applications are not able to be aware of common
   events in these additional datstores of the management system, such
   as a applied configuration state change in NETCONF server or RESTCONF
   server, that may impact management applications.  This document
   define a YANG module that allows a client to receive additional
   notifications for some common system events pertaining to the Network
   Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) defined in [RFC8342].


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission 
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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