Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Nick Roberts]

In message <5ea82c6b-73ca-6728-a118-e7111d094...@codethink.co.uk>
   Michael Drake  wrote:

> 
> On 28/04/17 11:18, Michael Drake wrote:
> >
> > We could change it not to save the hotlist on exit when
> > an external hotlist manager is used, since that would
> > be a simple change.
> 
> Done.

You are a star 8-)

I'll get to tweaking BookMaker so it no longer blocks save if NetSurf
is running.


-- 
Nick Roberts   tigger @ orpheusinternet.co.uk   

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Michael Drake]

On 28/04/17 11:18, Michael Drake wrote:


We could change it not to save the hotlist on exit when
an external hotlist manager is used, since that would
be a simple change.


Done.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Michael Drake]

On 28/04/17 10:51, Michael Drake wrote:


In any case, I can make it more robust by consulting the
external hotlist option before removing from the hotlist.


Actually it already does that, so NetSurf shouldn't be saving
the hotlist when the hotlist is edited, when configured to
use an external hotlist manager, however, it will still
save the hotlist on exit.

We could change it not to save the hotlist on exit when
an external hotlist manager is used, since that would
be a simple change.

Adding support for querying the external hotlist about
whether it has a URL and removing URLs from external
requires more work, and would need a RISC OS developer.

If there are any developers interested in working on the
RISC OS front end, they would be most welcome.  None of
NetSurf's core developers use RISC OS, so we have trouble
maintaining and supporting it.

Cheers,

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Michael Drake]

On 27/04/17 18:03, Michael Drake wrote:


On 26/04/17 18:30, Nick Roberts wrote:


Can you just confirm that NetSurf doesn't save the file if there is an
external hotlist manager?


I don't know, off the top of my head.  I'm unfamiliar with the
external hotlist option.  If I have time tomorrow I could have
a look at the code.


As far as I can tell there are three differences in behavior when
the RISC OS front end's external hotlist option is enabled:

1. Opening the hotlist will Filer_Run the external application,
   rather than opening the NetSurf hotlist manager window.

2. The hotlist_has_url test always returns false for external
   hotlists.  (Meaning the star in the URL bar will always be
   an empty outline, rather than filled yellow, even when the
   current page is in the external hotlist.)

3. When adding pages to the hotlist, NetSurf's core hotlist code
   isn't informed.  This means that the NetSurf won't save the
   file when adding URLs.

So NetSurf won't save the hotlist file when adding pages, and
set to use an external hotlist manager.

It looks like the RISC OS front end code for removing pages
from the hotlist first checks whether the core hotlist has
the page, and if it does, it instructs the NetSurf core
hotlist to remove it, rather than the external application.

The remove from hotlist handling has no code to tell an
external hotlist to remove pages.

This means that if this code is called, and the the core
hotlist had the URL, it will remove it, which will cause
NetSurf to save the hotlist file.

I can't remember exactly how the RISC OS UI presents the
interface for removing pages from the hotlist.  It might have
been select clicking on a filled URL bar star, or adjust
clicking on a URL bar star, or something else.  If the former,
then because of point 2 above, it would not let the remove
page code get called in the first place, so the file wouldn't
get saved.

In any case, I can make it more robust by consulting the
external hotlist option before removing from the hotlist.

Cheers,

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Michael Drake]

On 26/04/17 18:30, Nick Roberts wrote:


Can you just confirm that NetSurf doesn't save the file if there is an
external hotlist manager?


I don't know, off the top of my head.  I'm unfamiliar with the
external hotlist option.  If I have time tomorrow I could have
a look at the code.

Cheers,

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Nick Roberts]

In message <496fe1b4-8a09-4243-e65a-50b1381b7...@codethink.co.uk>
   Michael Drake  wrote:

> On 23/11/16 09:58, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> > On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
> >   Jim Nagel  wrote:
> >
> > > Does NetSurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits
> > > the program?
> > > 
> > No, it doesn't.
> 
> As of CI build #4070, the hotlist file is saved shortly after URLs
> are added / removed.

Can you just confirm that Netsurf doesn't save the file if there is an
external hotlist manager? I've just had a play with build #4070 and
this seems to be the case, but confirmation would be nice.

If so, I can fix BookMaker to allow saves even if Netsurf is running.

-- 
Nick Roberts   tigger @ orpheusinternet.co.uk   

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Richard Torrens (lists)]

In article <496fe1b4-8a09-4243-e65a-50b1381b7...@codethink.co.uk>,
   Michael Drake  wrote:
> On 23/11/16 09:58, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> > On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
> >   Jim Nagel  wrote:
> >
> >> Does NetSurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits the
> >> program?
> >>
> > No, it doesn't.

> As of CI build #4070, the hotlist file is saved shortly after URLs are
> added / removed.

> Cheers,

Excellent! A long-awaited chamnge. Thanks for the contiunuing good work.

-- 
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Michael Drake]

On 23/11/16 09:58, Harriet Bazley wrote:

On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
  Jim Nagel  wrote:


Does NetSurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits the
program?


No, it doesn't.


As of CI build #4070, the hotlist file is saved shortly after URLs are
added / removed.

Cheers,

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Chris Young]

On 25 November 2016 09:57:04 GMT+00:00, Jim Nagel  
wrote:

>I'll put in a formal feature suggestion (via Sourceforge?) 

http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org

Chris

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Jim Nagel]

Harriet Bazley  wrote on 24 Nov:

>> [Jim wrote:] The hotlist is saved in Choices:WWW.Netsurf
>> But where is the history saved?

> Choices:WWW.Netsurf.URL I think.

Ahh, yes.  That filename wasn't obvious till hindsight.

And now that I look at the directory with Full Info and date order, 
behold the three files Hotlist, URL and Cookies at the top of the 
list, stamped with the exact time I shut down last night.

I'll put in a formal feature suggestion (via Sourceforge?) that 
additions to Hotlist ought to save themselves immediately (or the user 
being given a chance to save them manually, at least).

I can't be the only Netsurf user who has ever lost stuff like this 
because of the machine losing power or freezing, and Netsurf not 
having the chance to quit correctly.

-- 
Jim Nagelwww.archivemag.co.uk

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Harriet Bazley]

On 24 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
  Jim Nagel  wrote:

[snip]


> The hotlist is saved in Choices:WWW.Netsurf
> But where is the history saved?
>

Choices:WWW.Netsurf.URL I think.


-- 
Harriet Bazley ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

Flying is the art of throwing yourself at the ground... and missing.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Jim Nagel]

Harriet Bazley  wrote on 23 Nov:

> On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
>   Jim Nagel  wrote:

>> Does Netsurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits the
>> program?
>>
> No, it doesn't.
> An attempt to avoid constant unpredictable disc accesses, I assume,
> and it's not a problem until the program crashes, but it would be nice
> at least if editing the hotlist physically updated the relevant file -
> it's not something that happens all that often, unlike opening new
> pages, and unlike in other programs there's no way to 'save your work'
> manually.
>It's a bit counter-intuitive that the only way to ensure that
> changes to the program data are preserved is to quit the program
> immediately after making them!

Amen to that!  Counterintuitive indeed.

The hotlist is saved in Choices:WWW.Netsurf
But where is the history saved?


-- 
Jim Nagelwww.archivemag.co.uk
   Abbey Press   32 Norbins Rd(01458) 83 3603
   Glastonbury   BA6 9JG pocket 0797 415 3861
>> before emailing large files (>1Mb), please ask me for FTP details

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Nick Roberts]

In message <8c1f76e355.harr...@blueyonder.co.uk>
   Harriet Bazley  wrote:

> On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
>   Jim Nagel  wrote:
> 
> > Does Netsurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits
> > the program?
> >
> No, it doesn't.
> An attempt to avoid constant unpredictable disc accesses, I assume,
> and it's not a problem until the program crashes, but it would be
> nice at least if editing the hotlist physically updated the relevant
> file - it's not something that happens all that often, unlike opening
> new pages, and unlike in other programs there's no way to 'save your
> work' manually.   It's a bit counter-intuitive that the only way to
> ensure that changes to the program data are preserved is to quit the
> program immediately after making them!

This is a particular problem for BookMaker.

If the user adds any pages to the hotlist, BookMaker registers that the
hotlist has changed, and the "Save" button on the toolbar becomes
active. But if you save the hotlilst and then quit Netsurf, Netsurf
very kindly overwrites the version you've saved from BookMaker with its
own internal copy. This got so frustrating that now BookMaker won't let
you save a Netsurf hotlist if Netsurf is still running.

This does have one advantage - if/when Netsurf crashes, you can then
save the (updated) hotlist from BookMaker.

Eventually, I plan to add a patch to Netsurf, so that it checks on exit
for the use of a foreign hotlist manager, and avoid saving the hotlist
if one is in use. It's a bit daunting, as I'm going to have to start
from building a GCC environment on a virtual machine.

-- 
Nick Roberts   tigger @ orpheusinternet.co.uk   

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[John Rickman Iyonix]

 In article , Jim Nagel
  wrote:
> Last night I was looking for tips on how to use CSS for something on
> my website

Jim - you might find the links in the middle column on this page 
useful:-

http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx/lynxweb.html

John

-- 
John Rickman 

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Harriet Bazley]

On 23 Nov 2016 as I do recall,
  Jim Nagel  wrote:

> Does Netsurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits the
> program?
>
No, it doesn't.
An attempt to avoid constant unpredictable disc accesses, I assume, and it's
not a problem until the program crashes, but it would be nice at least if
editing the hotlist physically updated the relevant file - it's not
something that happens all that often, unlike opening new pages, and unlike
in other programs there's no way to 'save your work' manually.   It's a bit
counter-intuitive that the only way to ensure that changes to the program
data are preserved is to quit the program immediately after making them!

-- 
Harriet Bazley ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

Confession is good for the soul, but bad for the career.

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Tim Hill]

In article , Jim Nagel
 wrote:
> Last night I was looking for tips on how to use CSS for something on
> my website

[snip]

On balance, I find
www.w3schools.com 
better than HTML.com
YMMV

-- 
Tim Hill
www.timil.com

web sites * multimedia * training

Re: history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[John Williams]

In article ,
   Jim Nagel  wrote:

> Back to original Q about when Netsurf saves its hotlist.

On quitting, same as its cookies. So if you want to do different user
stuff, NetSurf has to be quitted before changing the Choices location.

I do this to access my wife's FaceBook and GMail - with her permission, of
course. on a machine I can do something sensible with the data on! Things
like save out pictures full size, print off tickets etcetera.

For simplicity I have separate complete Choices files and a change-user
script which checks if NS is running and stops to warn me if it is. 
Quitting NS automatically seemed a bit like overkill - it helps to remember
what's going on if you have to do it yourself!

John

-- 
| John Williams 
| joh...@ukgateway.net

 Names for Soul Band:- Soul Doubt *

history and hotlist not saved; CSS site

[Jim Nagel]

Does Netsurf not save its hotlist and history till the user quits the 
program?

Last night I was looking for tips on how to use CSS for something on 
my website, came across a wonderful site and immediately added it to 
my Netsurf hotlist.  An hour later, some other application froze and 
the computer had to be rebooted.

Today I wanted to return to that site about CSS, but there was no 
record of it in my hotlist.  Nor in my history.  Tried all sorts of 
searches via Google and Duckduck -- no luck.  Bereft.

Is there any way to make Netsurf save history and hotlist during a 
session?  Or am I misunderstanding something?


As for the site I lost, maybe somebody else knows it and could point 
me in the right direction.
 - Exceptionally clean design.  The bits of code within sentences were 
presented with a grey background.
 - Fine use of language, not cutesy or nerdy or commercial.
 - It had a surprisingly nifty name, one syllable I think, almost in 
the league of web.com or code.com -- so simple it made me wonder that 
the writers found it still available.
 - Further surprise when I got to a deeper page: it was a UK company, 
despite the ".com" domain, located somewhere like Shoreditch or 
Marylebone.

Stop press:  Found it! It's  html.com

Back to original Q about when Netsurf saves its hotlist.

-- 
Jim Nagelwww.archivemag.co.uk