Re: EU == USSR v2.0 ?
Property is just an opinion, programmed into certain number of human brains. It's soft, and can be modified or erased. There is no brain area dedicated for private property (witness human societies without it.) Using this ephemeral phenomenon to understand underlying dynamics is unproductive. Observers from Mars cannot detect property, as they cannot detect human gods. But they can detect lifecycles, illnesses, buildings, murders, poverty, luxury and such. The worse sleigh of hand done to communism was to divert focus to this single soft aspect (remotely similar to POTUS pussy grabbing idiocy.) The basic similarity between USSR and EU is the willingness of large number of people, *not* based on religion, leaders, or tribal/national identity, to pitch in for the better common* future. Both events are unique in the history in this regard. * note the word root How is the EU seizing control of the means of production? How is the EU delegitimising the ownership of private property by private citizens? When last I checked, it was still possible to establish for-profit businesses in the EU, and it was still possible for individual EU citizens to purchase goods from Ka De We. To say that the EU model incorporates elements of socialism is one thing, to say that it is 'communism' is a bridge too far. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: EU == USSR v2.0 ?
On Wednesday, March 27, 2019 10:05:16 PM CET, Morlock Elloi wrote: EU is really another attempt at communism. Go home grandpa, you're drunk. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: EU == USSR v2.0 ?
On 27.03.19 22:05, Morlock Elloi wrote: > EU is really another attempt at communism. As I just wrote in another post, I think the US (and the UK and the EU) far facing a similar structural crisis as the USSR faced in the 1970s. Whether these countries turns out to be like the USSR, depends on their ability to reform and respond the the nature of the crisis. I'm not hopeful, but the analogy has nothing to do with communism. The EU is a neo-liberal project, at its core (which, to me, is still better than nationalism, but far from good). Felix -- http://felix.openflows.com |Open PGP http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=0x0bbb5b950c9ff2ac signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: EU == USSR v2.0 ?
How is the EU seizing control of the means of production? How is the EU delegitimising the ownership of private property by private citizens? When last I checked, it was still possible to establish for-profit businesses in the EU, and it was still possible for individual EU citizens to purchase goods from Ka De We. To say that the EU model incorporates elements of socialism is one thing, to say that it is 'communism' is a bridge too far. Historical analogies are useful, and there may be nothing new under the sun. However, we also need to understand what is different this time. For example, it may be that the automation and centralised control made possible by modern technology, whose effects include but are not limited to altering the balance between fixed and variable costs, have substantively changed the nature of manufacturing and services. And now we see that regulators in many countries in Europe and America seem powerless to stop private interests from setting the rules and collecting their own kind of unaccountable taxes. It may be useful to consider the various emerging models for regulation pursued by the EU as a response to such effects rather than a repudiation of capitalism. In particular, much of information and communication technology has become a form of infrastructure, and governments have so far failed to fully determine and implement appropriate forms of regulation for this infrastructure [1]. Many people have offered reasons for this, and I shall not recount those arguments here. For various reasons the EU regulators are well-positioned to give it a go, and they deserve our support. Best wishes -- Geoff [1] Bob Frankston. "Demystifying Networking." http://rmf.vc/demystify On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 02:05:16PM -0700, Morlock Elloi wrote: > The arguments and narratives on EU don't really make much sense. Not that > deeply entrenched sides do not have self-coherent dogmas, they do. But it > all just doesn't make sense. There is a total disconnect between them and > between them and reality, it seems. Immigration, sovereignty, neoliberalism, > nationalism, etc. etc. ad nauseam, barren and fruitless drivel goes on and > on. Especially in GB (why anyone cares so much what happens to the > irrelevant inbred island is a separate topic) - intelligent people have to > admit that they don't have a clue what Brexit-no-Brexit discourse is about. > Not that it will prevent anyone to contributing. > > Maybe, then, the real issue is completely different, and present discourses > and narratives are simply psychotic avoidance of confronting it. > > EU is really another attempt at communism. > > Communism appears to be genetically attractive to large swaths of > population, so it does come up and will continue to be coming up, one way or > another. It's like when you are constipated - it *will* come out sooner or > later, and you know it. The question is how much are you going to pretend > and suffer in the meantime. > > The first attempt, USSR, failed for known reasons. It did work in the > beginning though. The same happened to EU. The really existing communism > appears to be perishable matter. > > The neurotic need to brand it as something else in the case of EU didn't > change much, if anything. The pattern is unmistakeable: wide initial support > from working class masses and honest intelligentsia, belief in transnational > unity and rosy future, followed by corruption of officials and apparatchik > system of government. In the post-mortem phase, flourishing of 'analysis' > and bickering about the exact way the decay should proceed. > > So don't be sorry about EU. Hopefully we learned something, and the next > time it will be better. It *will* come out, again. > > > > > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
EU == USSR v2.0 ?
The arguments and narratives on EU don't really make much sense. Not that deeply entrenched sides do not have self-coherent dogmas, they do. But it all just doesn't make sense. There is a total disconnect between them and between them and reality, it seems. Immigration, sovereignty, neoliberalism, nationalism, etc. etc. ad nauseam, barren and fruitless drivel goes on and on. Especially in GB (why anyone cares so much what happens to the irrelevant inbred island is a separate topic) - intelligent people have to admit that they don't have a clue what Brexit-no-Brexit discourse is about. Not that it will prevent anyone to contributing. Maybe, then, the real issue is completely different, and present discourses and narratives are simply psychotic avoidance of confronting it. EU is really another attempt at communism. Communism appears to be genetically attractive to large swaths of population, so it does come up and will continue to be coming up, one way or another. It's like when you are constipated - it *will* come out sooner or later, and you know it. The question is how much are you going to pretend and suffer in the meantime. The first attempt, USSR, failed for known reasons. It did work in the beginning though. The same happened to EU. The really existing communism appears to be perishable matter. The neurotic need to brand it as something else in the case of EU didn't change much, if anything. The pattern is unmistakeable: wide initial support from working class masses and honest intelligentsia, belief in transnational unity and rosy future, followed by corruption of officials and apparatchik system of government. In the post-mortem phase, flourishing of 'analysis' and bickering about the exact way the decay should proceed. So don't be sorry about EU. Hopefully we learned something, and the next time it will be better. It *will* come out, again. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
