Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Magnus Boman]

>
> ...
>
> Hi,
>
> thanks guys for your opinions on blockchais, But neither pointing to
> authority in the matter (apprently we are all experts all the time) nor
> polemicizing against a non-mature technology will help me in
> understanding the phenomena. let's get back to the subject in ten years.
>
> -Oli
>

oblig hack: I just finished attending Financial Crypto 2018, including a
Bitcoin workshop and a Smart Contract workshop. For the latter, I co-wrote
a paper with the take home msg that smart contracts is neither smart, nor
contracts (https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.09535).

The consensus (!) at the utterly useless closing conference panel was that
the (permission-less) blockchain is as useless as the panel itself, but it
will probably take decidedly less than the ten years you are asking for,
Oli, to make it useful for certain applications, e.g. as a distributed
ledger for land ownership and use, or my fav: an immutable cultural
geography ledger. Runner up anti-dystopia alt-right norm eliminator:
trustless norm encoder for intensional communities (cf. "Circles").
M.
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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Morlock Elloi]

I regret to be this anal - nettime is not (that) technical forum, but in 
this case blockchain has has nothing to do with securing IoT 
communications. At best, blockchain can provide authentication (ie. 
public key tied to identity), with properly expensive PoW, which is not 
the case here.


This reminds me that there is one sensible use of blockchain: public key 
directory. Too bad no one uses PGP any more.


Which brings me to another really interesting question: why don't DNS 
CAs use blockchains for storing certificate chains, instead of burning 
them into browsers via custom deals with multiple browser peddlers?




I believe that this use of blockchain is simply as a secure protocol for
the internet-of-things – and for (future) autonomous driving. (It's that
potential external control of one's car – or whatever – that's spooky.)


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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Anthony Stephenson]

>
>
> That article is technical nonsense. 'Blockchain' that has PoW consisting
> of 1.6 second of handset CPU is trivial to fake. And where is the
> consensus? Car does the same? Or is car running 500KW GPU cluster doing
> hash verified by ... who? Cheap PoW ("Proof of Work") is contradiction
> in terms.
>
> This is actually a good illustration of utter bullshit that passes for
> 'technology'.
>
>
I believe that this use of blockchain is simply as a secure protocol for
the internet-of-things – and for (future) autonomous driving. (It's that
potential external control of one's car – or whatever – that's spooky.)

-- 

- *Anthony Stephenson*

*http://anthonystephenson.org/* 
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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[tbyfield]

On 2 Mar 2018, at 15:17, Morlock Elloi wrote:

> We need blockchain powered nettime! BLOCKTIME!

block.critique


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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Carsten Agger]

On 03/03/2018 09:20 AM, Patrice Riemens wrote:

And then, cryptocurrencies don't make very much economic sense either. 
Their only merit is have bootstrapped rethinking money and currencies 
- even though not necessarily in the 'right' direction.


Talking about monetary alternatives, I find LETS currencies much more 
interesting, such as (e.g.) the Puma in Seville, 
https://monedasocialpuma.wordpress.com/


One important difference from Bitcoin etc. is that the scope of LETS 
currencies are strictly local - they simply don't work outside of their 
area. Also, they are strictly community-based, meaning that they will 
only work if you build a community around them or use them to strengthen 
an existing one - they are much more collectivist, even "socialist" or 
at least left anarchist in mobilizing local communities around, e.g., 
the creation of food markets; thirdly, this means that their value as a 
currency is directly proportional to how much the money circulate - the 
more they do, the more of the local economy is being build by people in 
that locality itself, and the better; but fourthly, that also means that 
these currencies are complimentary and can't stand alone (you can't by 
oil or electric power with money that's only good in your own 
neighbourhood).


If we want to rethink money, there are many more directions in which to 
go than the cryptocurrencies' neoliberal vision of a return to the gold 
standard. The concept of "aging money" as defended in Michael Ende's 
novel "Momo", among other places, is an example.


Nice weekend to everyone!
Carsten
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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[oli]

On 02.03.2018 22:27, Carsten Agger wrote:
> 
> 
> On 03/02/2018 09:17 PM, Morlock Elloi wrote:
>> That article is technical nonsense. 'Blockchain' that has PoW
>> consisting of 1.6 second of handset CPU is trivial to fake. And where
>> is the consensus? Car does the same? Or is car running 500KW GPU
>> cluster doing hash verified by ... who? Cheap PoW ("Proof of Work") is
>> contradiction in terms.
>>
>> This is actually a good illustration of utter bullshit that passes for
>> 'technology'.
>>
>> We need blockchain powered nettime! BLOCKTIME!
>>
> The good thing about the Blockchain-based dystopian visions is that they
> won't ever actually come to pass. Blockchain is impractical and useless
> from a technical point of view. It's pure hype and nothing more.
> 
> On the other hand, the bad thing about the Blockchain-based dystopian
> visions is that everything bad that you could conceivably do with a
> Blockchain you could do better and much more efficiently with an
> ordinary database.
> 
> So there are definitely reasons to worry about the future surveillance
> nightmare, but Blockchain is not one of those reasons, because it won't
> ever make much of a difference in the technological sense. Its hype
> might, but Blockchain itself is useless outside the realm of
> cryptocurrencies. I say that as someone whose background is in
> technology, specifically computer science.
> 
> Best
> Carsten


Hi,

thanks guys for your opinions on blockchais, But neither pointing to
authority in the matter (apprently we are all experts all the time) nor
polemicizing against a non-mature technology will help me in
understanding the phenomena. let's get back to the subject in ten years.

-Oli


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Blockchain Halelujah! (was: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Patrice Riemens]

Re-routed to nettime, since the off list discussion got interesting. 
Below a  piece by Eduard who asked me to post it on nettime - after some 
light editing.

Cheers and don't churn out too many blockchains in the w/e!

(It might be advisable to read bottom up from now ...



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re:  Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our 
world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

Date: 2018-03-03 09:30
From: Patrice Riemens <patr...@xs4all.nl>
To: Morlock Elloi <morlockel...@gmail.com>
Cc: Eduard Karel de Jong <edu...@dejongfrz.nl>, Geert Lovink 
<ge...@xs4all.nl>


Woooaaah! Time for a fresh Sokal-Bricmont! I can't wait!


On 2018-03-03 08:45, Morlock Elloi wrote:

You wouldn't believe pointless papers that postdocs at top
universities are churning out:

"Securing Bitcoin wallets via threshold signatures"
"Scalable and Incentive-Compatible Blockchain Design"
"A Smart Contract for Boardroom Voting with Maximum Voter Privacy"
"Hawk: The Blockchain Model of Cryptography and Privacy-Preserving
Smart Contracts"
"Thunderella: Blockchains with Optimistic Instant Confirmation"

I cannot even imagine what a college course on the blockchain would
comprise of. Sounds like a course on replacing front left tire on 2010
white Toyota Camry.


On 3/2/18, 08:08, Patrice Riemens wrote:


Aloha,

I am amazed, nay flabbergasted, too at the amount of hot air being
displaced by the Blockchain (indeed what the French call 'une usine a
gaz'). In a recent NYT there was an article about college cousres on 
the

blockchain being in such heavy demand (i& in the US that means
'effective' demand) that universities were scrambling to fill the gap.

Such a phenomenon creates a reality entirely of its own, which you
cannot negate. Criticising it will earn you no credit whatsover, and
when the whole thing collapses - not if but when, and that still can
take some time, see BTC (or 'XBT')'s current valuation), nobody's 
going

to compliment you on foresight - some might even accuse you of having
provoked it.

Sometimes, this, together withthe 'acceleration' going with it, gives 
me

a strong taste of TEOTWAWKI upcoming ...

Cheers all, p+7D!
(snowed in in Fiesole's publib ... ;-)


-

Post by <edu...@dejongfrz.nl>


Indeed! Blockchain is nothing new!! At least not new at the higher of
level of trust in society or the possibilities of IT technology  to
lead to a dystopian future.

However, what is actually new with Blockchain, is the huge amount of
hype around it, the worldwide ramping up of university courses in
blockchain programming, and the apparent, blissfull ignorance of
many of those participating in it of the libertarian (read: illiberal,
right wing) bias it 
encapsuletes: "There is no need to trust another human to

interact with, since algorithmic consenus takes over, your property
rights are clearly determined  for all to see, be challenged by no one, 
and  they're fixed for eternity too."


This hype leads potential users of the technology to forget common IT
development practices, abandon legacy systems, and ignore all the many
subtle and not so subtle requirements for IT system to work discovered
during years of operation and maintenance.

Abandoning a legacy system, starting with a "Tabula Rasa" is several
orders of magnitude cheaper than extending an old system.

Using blockchain gives an excuse to bypass written and unwritten and 
ignore

regulations and customer protection laws, as these may not fit with the
centralised processing model of each time updating just as single
block in the chain of blocks.

In this reasoning Blockchain is really a new type of technological
threat, not because of its technology but because of the (not so) hidden 
agenda of its proponents and believers.


It could well be that the near-religious belief in the transformative 
nature of the Blockchain actually reveals a deep satisfaction with the 
status quo, often expressed these days in a longing for radical change
(a.k.a. 
'disruption'). The tabula rasa promise implied by Blockchain may 

then be recognised as what is needed to make that change. This reminds 
me of what I once heard about cultural context of the start of WWI: 
There was, on 
both sides, dissatisfaction with the (political) status quo,

and a brief quick war was precisely the technological 'fix':
telephones, machine guns and the railway network altogether would make 
for just such a "Tabula Rasa"...


Cheers
Eduard
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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Patrice Riemens]

On 2018-03-02 22:27, Carsten Agger wrote:

On 03/02/2018 09:17 PM, Morlock Elloi wrote:
That article is technical nonsense. 'Blockchain' that has PoW 
consisting of 1.6 second of handset CPU is trivial to fake. And where 
is the consensus? Car does the same? Or is car running 500KW GPU 
cluster doing hash verified by ... who? Cheap PoW ("Proof of Work") is 
contradiction in terms.


This is actually a good illustration of utter bullshit that passes for 
'technology'.


We need blockchain powered nettime! BLOCKTIME!


The good thing about the Blockchain-based dystopian visions is that
they won't ever actually come to pass. Blockchain is impractical and
useless from a technical point of view. It's pure hype and nothing
more.

On the other hand, the bad thing about the Blockchain-based dystopian
visions is that everything bad that you could conceivably do with a
Blockchain you could do better and much more efficiently with an
ordinary database.

So there are definitely reasons to worry about the future surveillance
nightmare, but Blockchain is not one of those reasons, because it
won't ever make much of a difference in the technological sense. Its
hype might, but Blockchain itself is useless outside the realm of
cryptocurrencies. I say that as someone whose background is in
technology, specifically computer science.



And then, cryptocurrencies don't make very much economic sense either. 
Their only merit is have bootstrapped rethinking money and currencies - 
even though not necessarily in the 'right' direction.


On a more general plane, dystopian visions (whether Blockchain-based or 
not) and surveillance nightmares unfortunately represent the entropy 
state of social systems, and can only be avoided with a lot of 
consciencious, collaborative efforts - exactly what the current 
dispensation actively discourages ...


Have a happy week-end!
p+7D!
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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Morlock Elloi]

Interesting point of view!

Non-blockchain technologies are badder (because they are far more 
efficient and actually work) for implementing dystopia, so blockchain's 
dismal inappropriateness and inefficiency are counter-measures against 
the dystopia. It's a poison pill.


Finally I get it.

Blockchain everywhere!


On the other hand, the bad thing about the Blockchain-based dystopian
visions is that everything bad that you could conceivably do with a
Blockchain you could do better and much more efficiently with an
ordinary database.

So there are definitely reasons to worry about the future surveillance
nightmare, but Blockchain is not one of those reasons, because it won't
ever make much of a difference in the technological sense.


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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Carsten Agger]

On 03/02/2018 09:17 PM, Morlock Elloi wrote:
That article is technical nonsense. 'Blockchain' that has PoW 
consisting of 1.6 second of handset CPU is trivial to fake. And where 
is the consensus? Car does the same? Or is car running 500KW GPU 
cluster doing hash verified by ... who? Cheap PoW ("Proof of Work") is 
contradiction in terms.


This is actually a good illustration of utter bullshit that passes for 
'technology'.


We need blockchain powered nettime! BLOCKTIME!

The good thing about the Blockchain-based dystopian visions is that they 
won't ever actually come to pass. Blockchain is impractical and useless 
from a technical point of view. It's pure hype and nothing more.


On the other hand, the bad thing about the Blockchain-based dystopian 
visions is that everything bad that you could conceivably do with a 
Blockchain you could do better and much more efficiently with an 
ordinary database.


So there are definitely reasons to worry about the future surveillance 
nightmare, but Blockchain is not one of those reasons, because it won't 
ever make much of a difference in the technological sense. Its hype 
might, but Blockchain itself is useless outside the realm of 
cryptocurrencies. I say that as someone whose background is in 
technology, specifically computer science.


Best
Carsten
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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Morlock Elloi]

That article is technical nonsense. 'Blockchain' that has PoW consisting 
of 1.6 second of handset CPU is trivial to fake. And where is the 
consensus? Car does the same? Or is car running 500KW GPU cluster doing 
hash verified by ... who? Cheap PoW ("Proof of Work") is contradiction 
in terms.


This is actually a good illustration of utter bullshit that passes for 
'technology'.


We need blockchain powered nettime! BLOCKTIME!


see for instance Porsche's one blockchain per car:


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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[oli]

Hi,

On 01.03.2018 04:32, Morlock Elloi wrote:
> I have hard time understanding how is blockchain special, unique, and
> apart from other technologies, relative to dystopian outlook in the
> article.
> 

Yeah, it is rather dystopian. There is this logical expansion for
commodified societies inherent to blockchain technologies that is the
focus of the article.

> The only difference between blockchain and prior technologies (public
> cryptography, including signatures and certificates, databases, etc.) is
> the verifiable permanence of the previously unknown commitment: once
> something is put there, it is hard to modify later. I want to be very
> specific here: if someone has committed something to blockchain in the
> past, and the verifier knew nothing about that commitment until the
> present, the verifier can verify the commitment once it gets interested
> in it.
> 
> This is the *only* difference. There is nothing else.
> 
> Blockchain is specifically redundant if:
> 
> a - the verifier knew about the commitment at the time of committing
> (just keep the hash);
> 
> b - the verifier wants to check authenticity of the commitment
> transported over untrusted channel, from a trusted authenticated
> committer (use committer's public key);
> 
> There are more, but these two are relevant.
> 
> While the article elaborates on real issues when computing machines
> start to mediate the totality of human interactions, these issues have
> nothing to do with blockchain, that's bs. Using popularity of the
> 'blockchain' meme to prop them up is misleading and will fire back.

the difference is that blockchains are automated verifiers and reference
for verification. i agree that much of the projected ideas around
blockchains may be solved with common techniques. and that blockchains
still need some further development. but once the proof is cheap and the
transactions are fast, it scales well enough. and there will be thousand
blockchains. see for instance Porsche's one blockchain per car:

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/themes/porsche-digital/porsche-blockchain-panamera-xain-technology-app-bitcoin-ethereum-data-smart-contracts-porsche-innovation-contest-14906.html

Or Lenovo's Patent for paper verification:

http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0=20180046889=4E2C6B937301=http%3A%2F%2Fappft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-adv.html%2526r%3D1%2526p%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526d%3DPG01%2526S1%3D20180046889.PGNR.%2526OS%3Ddn%2F20180046889%2526RS%3DDN%2F20180046889

Of course, this is still R

> 
> Every single of the enumerated mechanisms can be better executed without
> blockchain. Immutability of previously unknown commitments is not a
> factor in any of them. In each of them either (a), (b), or both, hold true.
> 
> This includes smart contracts, which are programs ran on distributed VM
> where the majority of identical results wins. The results mean
> something, but who cares? The only things the results affect are inside
> the VM itself (like transfer of funds of blockchain-based currency
> between accounts.) For anything outside VM we are back to (a) and (b).

There is this automated link between value administration and 'contract'
execution. Imho there has nothing been like this before. And it is scary.

> 
> For example, the smart contract stipulates that you must have sex with
> person X if account Z transfers specific amount to account Y. This
> happens, but you don't feel like it. So X sends the police to force you.
> This is much easier achieved by registering the contract on the sex
> police computer.

Enforcement of contracts is subject to the regime's inherent power's. Of
course. This will never change.



> 
> And so on.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Morlock Elloi]

I have hard time understanding how is blockchain special, unique, and 
apart from other technologies, relative to dystopian outlook in the article.


The only difference between blockchain and prior technologies (public 
cryptography, including signatures and certificates, databases, etc.) is 
the verifiable permanence of the previously unknown commitment: once 
something is put there, it is hard to modify later. I want to be very 
specific here: if someone has committed something to blockchain in the 
past, and the verifier knew nothing about that commitment until the 
present, the verifier can verify the commitment once it gets interested 
in it.


This is the *only* difference. There is nothing else.

Blockchain is specifically redundant if:

a - the verifier knew about the commitment at the time of committing 
(just keep the hash);


b - the verifier wants to check authenticity of the commitment 
transported over untrusted channel, from a trusted authenticated 
committer (use committer's public key);


There are more, but these two are relevant.

While the article elaborates on real issues when computing machines 
start to mediate the totality of human interactions, these issues have 
nothing to do with blockchain, that's bs. Using popularity of the 
'blockchain' meme to prop them up is misleading and will fire back.


Every single of the enumerated mechanisms can be better executed without 
blockchain. Immutability of previously unknown commitments is not a 
factor in any of them. In each of them either (a), (b), or both, hold true.


This includes smart contracts, which are programs ran on distributed VM 
where the majority of identical results wins. The results mean 
something, but who cares? The only things the results affect are inside 
the VM itself (like transfer of funds of blockchain-based currency 
between accounts.) For anything outside VM we are back to (a) and (b).


For example, the smart contract stipulates that you must have sex with 
person X if account Z transfers specific amount to account Y. This 
happens, but you don't feel like it. So X sends the police to force you. 
This is much easier achieved by registering the contract on the sex 
police computer.


And so on.



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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[oli]

Alice Weidel is not listed on the site of the event. Nevertheless, she
was a trader or broker for some hedge fund or so, afair. Her 'expertise'
lies in finance, therefore the guardian article's claim is not totally
out of the blue. Since I am located in Hamburg, I will follow the news
on the event.

On a more general note around blockchains: I guess we all agree that
talking about "the internet" is not very informative, I hope we will
soon establish the same consensus on the topic of blockchains. There are
massive R efforts on the way, money flows in on a large scale and I
think it is okay to say that blockchains, open or closed, decentralized
or centralized, will help to further tighten the machine control
paradigm around our societies.

I recently made an effort to speculate a bit about the relation of
private property and the trajectories of blockchains, published on the
moneylab blog

http://networkcultures.org/moneylab/2018/02/07/the-blockchain-as-a-modulator-of-existence/
:


The Blockchain as a Modulator of Existence

By: Oliver Leistert

The advent of the blockchain as a protocological internet layer for
values corresponds to a continuing monetization pressure and ongoing
expansion of identification strategies. Notwithstanding these
trajectories, behind this prospected killer application resides first of
all a sovereign chronological regime that has the capacities to proof
and modulate the existence, identity and administration of data, assets,
goods and services from a distance on micrological scales.

“As far as agency is concerned, the law holds that things and media
are strictly passive.” Cornelia Vismann

Without doubt, one of the most common and important techniques since the
advent of massified networked computing has been the basic computational
operation to copy and paste. To copy the contents of an address space to
another in (networked) computers seems to be the one fundamental
operation a networked society is relying on – on the operational level
of computing itself and on the individual and societal level of swapping
clusters of large files. In the digital realm, scarcity up until today
proved too counter-intuitive and technically non-viable or too expensive
to implement on a general scope. This became manifest in fundamental
attacks endemic and systemic to digital cultures on property regimes,
whose operationability had formerly been intrinsically secured by the
simple fact that consumers did not have the means to copy goods as they
wished. If there is one single capturing method that blockchain
technologies are aiming at it is to limit ubiquitous copy and paste in a
broad sense, to migrate from copy to cut (if at all), to
insert a digital proof of identity for data that may then be linked with
appliances and other machines such as media player or access control via
interfaces. “The business of embedding artificial scarcity into the
digital asset is aligned with what appears to be an inevitable and
continued enclosure of the mythos of online commons within colonial
apparatus.”i The introduction of a time stamped proof of existence in a
presumably tamper-proof distributed ledger yields the late introduction
of scarcity on the protocol level, almost fifty years after the
introduction of TCP/IP.

In the blockchain era, prospected to be in full bloom in ten years,
goods and services – physical or digital, manual or automated – are
bound to a time stamp in the blockchain that is cryptographically
secured. This time stamp marks the beginning of what might be called the
post-digital, signified at its most basic function by remote,
blockchain-based controls of existence. Property regimes in a very
general sense then may be executed automatically by machines through
permissionless (open access), distributed, or permissioned, centralized
ledgers.

This text describes the very real possibility of this new kind of
sovereignty – the sovereignty of the post-digital that modulates
ownership and use of its commodities new from scratch, and as an
extension and update of the bourgeois operating system, designed by the
vectorialist class.ii At its most radical trajectory, control shifts
from external, non-digital, human-centered legal and administrative
procedures, such as contracts, to internal, machine centered and
executable qualities of the commodities, goods and services themselves.
Test cases and applications are already deployed in a variety of fields.
Even if they fail in their first testing phases, the stakes are too high
for fine grained monetization schemes and profits on new frontiers to
emerge to not continue intensive R

‘Smart’ ≈ blind, ‘Contract’ ≈ Code

The originality and limitation by design of blockchain-based distributed
databases is their append-only regime. All past elements are read-only
and only the current block is a write operation. And furthermore, since
the chain is secured in backward direction via hashes, its complete
verification (or falsification) is viable at any 

Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Morlock Elloi]

After witnessing assorted Bitcoin, blockchain, Ethereum and related 
meetings, lectures, conferences and such, audiences ranging from people 
from the street to Ivy League PhDs:


- Most informal meetings have pure religious feeling; people smile and 
listen. The content is irrelevant. Idiocy rules. Most come for the cult 
value - tech scene lost the ideological steam, and anything, anything 
that projects into rosy (dys)(u)topia can get lots of attention. Every 
industry needs a church. 1 in 100 attendees understands issues;


- Professional/academic gatherings are fueled by the VC money, hoping to 
take a piece of the action from the finance folks. Large number of 
otherwise sane postdocs are churning out irrelevant papers with word 
'blockchain' in them. 1 in 10 attendees understands issues. Lots of 
lurkers from the finance industry. Some shake their heads in disbelief;


The confluence of the religious component for the masses, and a fuzzy 
possibility of grabbing control of money flows from the traditional 
players, appears to be the winning combination. One feeds the other.





Since anything a blockchain can be put to use to can be done more
easily, more efficiently, more securely, and usually also at a lower
_final_ cost by humans, I have come to suspect, nay be convinced, that
blockchain and other pieces of tech solutionism are mainly intended, and
deliberately so, to take human beings out of as many loops as possible,
possibly with the perspective of getting rid of them altogether when
transitioning into the bliss of post-human algocratic singularity for
the sole benefit of an ueberfintech elite, indubitably gifted with
eternal (because machinistic) life to boot.


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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Morlock Elloi]

I did a linguistic experiment - replaced word 'Blockchain' with 
'mayonnaise' throughout the article, and the amount of sense remained 
constant (that particular word was sense-neutral.)


It's very hard to find actual use for blockchain.

This thought experiment provides some help: imagine a large (200m ?) 
vertical rock face just outside the city, that everyone can see. You can 
hire crews with scaffolds and chisels to write something on it, and it 
stays there forever. It cannot be forged, as they use Times Roman Light 
font, so any alteration becomes obvious.


WTF would you use this for? To write down exactly what for the 
posterity? Decisions from the City Hall? Property tax records? 
Population count? How are you going to deal with clerical errors? Why 
are you doing this?




Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead
Crypto technology is coming to a crossroads. Those who want to use it to
radically redistribute wealth must take urgent action


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#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Patrice Riemens]

Yes, I completely agree with Carsten.

And as I cannot repeat often enough that I am a mere 'text filterer', 
which is the primary purpose of nettime (see at bottom) I will repeat 
again that I do not necessarily agree with other people's text I post, 
but do so only because I find them interesting, usually reflecting a 
(slightly?) more mainstream take on issues being discussed on this list 
(pro memoria: social media critique and the 'told you so' faktap).


Worse still I am part of the minority (of more than one, fortunately, 
but less so of hackers, unfortunately) who thought from day one that the 
blockchain was a 'gas plant', as the French say (une usine a gaz). Since 
anything a blockchain can be put to use to can be done more easily, more 
efficiently, more securely, and usually also at a lower _final_ cost by 
humans, I have come to suspect, nay be convinced, that blockchain and 
other pieces of tech solutionism are mainly intended, and deliberately 
so, to take human beings out of as many loops as possible, possibly with 
the perspective of getting rid of them altogether when transitioning 
into the bliss of post-human algocratic singularity for the sole benefit 
of an ueberfintech elite, indubitably gifted with eternal (because 
machinistic) life to boot.


The blockchain definitely belongs to the long list of things that better 
had not been invented and represent in the end a huge waste of time, 
talent, and resources.


Cheers from snowy Tuscany, where we still shift stamped paper
p+2D!



On 2018-02-23 13:38, Carsten Agger wrote:

On 23-02-2018 13:11, Patrice Riemens wrote:



Original to:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/23/blockchain-reshape-world-far-right-ahead-crypto-technology 
Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step 
ahead
Crypto technology is coming to a crossroads. Those who want to use it 
to radically redistribute wealth must take urgent action

[...]

Attack of the 50 Foot Blockchain reads the title of a 2017 book. From 
currency speculation through to verifying the provenance of food, 
blockchain technology is eking out space in a vast range of fields.



It's ironic, amusing more likely, that the conclusion of the book
"Attack of the 50 Foot Blockchain" is that the "Blockchain revolution"
will likely not amount to much of anything. The main reason is this:
Who needs a global, public and distributed ledger? What's it good for?

As a matter of fact, all proposed use cases I've seen founder on the
problem of reliability: Yes, if your crate of organic bananas has a
bar code, and that bar code was entered on the block chain along with
a statement that the crate was shipped from a fair trade/fair pay
organic cooperative in Costa Rica, nobody can know if that means that
the physical crate was actually there only that someone says that it
was. You might improve on that situation with tamperproof, sealed
cryptographic tokens, but you still don't know if the bananas were in
the crate at the time. An ordinary inspections regime would probably
work better. I.e., all use cases for blockchains which require
real-world interaction requires some sort of verification that the
data entered is correct, which the blockchain itself can't certify -
anything beyond the simple fact that the information was entered. And
that sort of tracking could ordinarily best be achieved by that
high-end bleeding edge innovation called a "database"; along with an
external verification process, the advantages of using a blockchain
over a database are exactly zip.

Now, if the data had to do with the blockchain itself and were
entirely digital ... then it's another matter. That's why blockchains
make sense for cryptocurrencies. But cryptocurrencies are not really
useful, and in their current incarnation are riddled by scams to an
extent where the best advice anyone could give is to stay the f...
away.

Distributed ledger systems do exist, though - one is called "Git". And
it's very useful for tracking source code changes. And as opposed to
blockchain, transactions can be reversed and history can be rewritten,
which is actually a necessary feature (e.g., with the GDPR coming up
here in the EU).

So, fortunately or unfortunately, it's not likely that Blockchain is
going to reshape anything, except for possibly the wallets of some
quick movers and scam artists.

Best
Carsten
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#  

Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Carsten Agger]

On 23-02-2018 13:11, Patrice Riemens wrote:



Original to:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/23/blockchain-reshape-world-far-right-ahead-crypto-technology 





Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead
Crypto technology is coming to a crossroads. Those who want to use it 
to radically redistribute wealth must take urgent action

[...]

Attack of the 50 Foot Blockchain reads the title of a 2017 book. From 
currency speculation through to verifying the provenance of food, 
blockchain technology is eking out space in a vast range of fields.


It's ironic, amusing more likely, that the conclusion of the book 
"Attack of the 50 Foot Blockchain" is that the "Blockchain revolution" 
will likely not amount to much of anything. The main reason is this: Who 
needs a global, public and distributed ledger? What's it good for?


As a matter of fact, all proposed use cases I've seen founder on the 
problem of reliability: Yes, if your crate of organic bananas has a bar 
code, and that bar code was entered on the block chain along with a 
statement that the crate was shipped from a fair trade/fair pay organic 
cooperative in Costa Rica, nobody can know if that means that the 
physical crate was actually there only that someone says that it was. 
You might improve on that situation with tamperproof, sealed 
cryptographic tokens, but you still don't know if the bananas were in 
the crate at the time. An ordinary inspections regime would probably 
work better. I.e., all use cases for blockchains which require 
real-world interaction requires some sort of verification that the data 
entered is correct, which the blockchain itself can't certify - anything 
beyond the simple fact that the information was entered. And that sort 
of tracking could ordinarily best be achieved by that high-end bleeding 
edge innovation called a "database"; along with an external verification 
process, the advantages of using a blockchain over a database are 
exactly zip.


Now, if the data had to do with the blockchain itself and were entirely 
digital ... then it's another matter. That's why blockchains make sense 
for cryptocurrencies. But cryptocurrencies are not really useful, and in 
their current incarnation are riddled by scams to an extent where the 
best advice anyone could give is to stay the f... away.


Distributed ledger systems do exist, though - one is called "Git". And 
it's very useful for tracking source code changes. And as opposed to 
blockchain, transactions can be reversed and history can be rewritten, 
which is actually a necessary feature (e.g., with the GDPR coming up 
here in the EU).


So, fortunately or unfortunately, it's not likely that Blockchain is 
going to reshape anything, except for possibly the wallets of some quick 
movers and scam artists.


Best
Carsten
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Re: Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[m...@tilmanbaumgaertel.net]

Unfortunately Alice Weidel is not on the list of speakers on the website of this conference, as the text claims...
-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit 1&1 Mail gesendet.Am 23/02/2018, 13:11, Patrice Riemens  schrieb:

Some connex pbs have caused my post to be send unedited. Here's the 
correct version (fingers X-ed)

---

Original to:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/23/blockchain-reshape-world-far-right-ahead-crypto-technology



Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead
Crypto technology is coming to a crossroads. Those who want to use it to 
radically redistribute wealth must take urgent action

By Josh Hall
Fri 23 Feb 2018


Alice Weidel is the co-leader of Alternative für Deutschland.’ 
Photograph: Axel Schmidt/Reuters

Attack of the 50 Foot Blockchain reads the title of a 2017 book. From 
currency speculation through to verifying the provenance of food, 
blockchain technology is eking out space in a vast range of fields.

For most people, blockchain technologies are inseparable from bitcoin, 
the cryptocurrency that has been particularly visible in the news 
recently thanks to its hyper-volatility. Crypto-entrepreneurs have made 
and lost millions, and many people have parlayed their trading into a 
full-time job. But blockchain technology, which allows for immutable 
records of activities, stored on a ledger that is held not just in one 
place but massively distributed, has applications in every conceivable 
area in commerce and beyond. Soon, there will be blockchains everywhere 
that transactions happen.

While the focus has so far been on currencies such as bitcoin, what’s 
less well known is the large and growing community of blockchain 
developers and evangelists, many of whom believe that the technology 
could herald radical changes in the ways our economies and societies are 
structured. But there’s a big question at the heart of that community: 
what might a world built with the help of blockchain technology look 
like?

Unchain, a large bitcoin and blockchain convention based in Hamburg, 
seems to have a potential answer. Along with speakers from blockchain 
startups, cryptocurrency exchanges and a company that purports to offer 
“privately managed cities as a business”, the conference programme also 
features Alice Weidel, listed on the site as an “economist and bitcoin 
entrepreneur”.

In fact, Weidel is the co-leader of Alternative für Deutschland, which 
recently became the third largest party in Germany’s Bundestag. Weidel’s 
election campaign in 2017 was the party’s breakthrough moment, and what 
many have seen as a watershed in German politics – the return of 
far-right, populist ethno-nationalism to the federal parliament.

Since 2015 the AfD leadership has adopted increasingly hard lines on 
borders, migration, Islam and Europe. The party has also attempted to 
recuperate language associated with historic Nazism; in 2016, the AfD’s 
then chair, Frauke Petry, called for the rehabilitation of the word 
“völkisch”, which is seen to be inextricably linked with National 
Socialism.

Weidel is thought to represent the more “moderate” wing of the AfD, in 
comparison with her colleague in the Bundestag Alexander Gauland, who 
has pushed for Angela Merkel to close Germany’s borders and to deliver 
ways by which immigrants can be repatriated. But the tension between the 
“moderate” and extreme wings of the AfD has been seen as a conscious 
tactic, in which Gauland pushes taboo subjects which Weidel then makes 
more palatable. Weidel herself, though, has also previously appeared to 
describe German Arabs as “culturally foreign” and to encourage a return 
to the paranoiac xenophobia of the Third Reich by describing Merkel’s 
government as “pigs” who are “puppets of the victorious powers” from the 
second world war.

The rise of the AfD has caused deep soul-searching in Germany. But 
outside of the country’s borders, Weidel’s invitation to the Unchain 
summit also poses questions for the nascent blockchain community. On one 
side are those who believe that crypto technologies should be used to 
divert power away from states (particularly social democratic states) 
and into the hands of a righteous vanguard of rightwing libertarian 
hackers.

Some of these people are now in positions of significant power: Mick 
Mulvaney, the director of the US Office of Management and Budget, is a 
staunch bitcoin advocate and his appointment was warmly received by some 
crypto news publications. Mulvaney has previously addressed the John 
Birch Society, an extreme rightwing pressure group that was formed to 
root out communists during the cold war but that now specialises in part 
in Federal Reserve conspiracy theories – a popular theme on some bitcoin 
forums. In June, the John Birch Society demanded that the Russia 
investigation be dropped; their “speakers bureau” offers talking heads 
on subjects 

Josh Hall: Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead (Guardian)

[Patrice Riemens]

Some connex pbs have caused my post to be send unedited. Here's the 
correct version (fingers X-ed)


---

Original to:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/23/blockchain-reshape-world-far-right-ahead-crypto-technology



Blockchain could reshape our world – and the far right is one step ahead
Crypto technology is coming to a crossroads. Those who want to use it to 
radically redistribute wealth must take urgent action


By Josh Hall
Fri 23 Feb 2018


Alice Weidel is the co-leader of Alternative für Deutschland.’ 
Photograph: Axel Schmidt/Reuters


Attack of the 50 Foot Blockchain reads the title of a 2017 book. From 
currency speculation through to verifying the provenance of food, 
blockchain technology is eking out space in a vast range of fields.


For most people, blockchain technologies are inseparable from bitcoin, 
the cryptocurrency that has been particularly visible in the news 
recently thanks to its hyper-volatility. Crypto-entrepreneurs have made 
and lost millions, and many people have parlayed their trading into a 
full-time job. But blockchain technology, which allows for immutable 
records of activities, stored on a ledger that is held not just in one 
place but massively distributed, has applications in every conceivable 
area in commerce and beyond. Soon, there will be blockchains everywhere 
that transactions happen.


While the focus has so far been on currencies such as bitcoin, what’s 
less well known is the large and growing community of blockchain 
developers and evangelists, many of whom believe that the technology 
could herald radical changes in the ways our economies and societies are 
structured. But there’s a big question at the heart of that community: 
what might a world built with the help of blockchain technology look 
like?


Unchain, a large bitcoin and blockchain convention based in Hamburg, 
seems to have a potential answer. Along with speakers from blockchain 
startups, cryptocurrency exchanges and a company that purports to offer 
“privately managed cities as a business”, the conference programme also 
features Alice Weidel, listed on the site as an “economist and bitcoin 
entrepreneur”.


In fact, Weidel is the co-leader of Alternative für Deutschland, which 
recently became the third largest party in Germany’s Bundestag. Weidel’s 
election campaign in 2017 was the party’s breakthrough moment, and what 
many have seen as a watershed in German politics – the return of 
far-right, populist ethno-nationalism to the federal parliament.


Since 2015 the AfD leadership has adopted increasingly hard lines on 
borders, migration, Islam and Europe. The party has also attempted to 
recuperate language associated with historic Nazism; in 2016, the AfD’s 
then chair, Frauke Petry, called for the rehabilitation of the word 
“völkisch”, which is seen to be inextricably linked with National 
Socialism.


Weidel is thought to represent the more “moderate” wing of the AfD, in 
comparison with her colleague in the Bundestag Alexander Gauland, who 
has pushed for Angela Merkel to close Germany’s borders and to deliver 
ways by which immigrants can be repatriated. But the tension between the 
“moderate” and extreme wings of the AfD has been seen as a conscious 
tactic, in which Gauland pushes taboo subjects which Weidel then makes 
more palatable. Weidel herself, though, has also previously appeared to 
describe German Arabs as “culturally foreign” and to encourage a return 
to the paranoiac xenophobia of the Third Reich by describing Merkel’s 
government as “pigs” who are “puppets of the victorious powers” from the 
second world war.


The rise of the AfD has caused deep soul-searching in Germany. But 
outside of the country’s borders, Weidel’s invitation to the Unchain 
summit also poses questions for the nascent blockchain community. On one 
side are those who believe that crypto technologies should be used to 
divert power away from states (particularly social democratic states) 
and into the hands of a righteous vanguard of rightwing libertarian 
hackers.


Some of these people are now in positions of significant power: Mick 
Mulvaney, the director of the US Office of Management and Budget, is a 
staunch bitcoin advocate and his appointment was warmly received by some 
crypto news publications. Mulvaney has previously addressed the John 
Birch Society, an extreme rightwing pressure group that was formed to 
root out communists during the cold war but that now specialises in part 
in Federal Reserve conspiracy theories – a popular theme on some bitcoin 
forums. In June, the John Birch Society demanded that the Russia 
investigation be dropped; their “speakers bureau” offers talking heads 
on subjects including why the US must leave the UN, “the Trojan horse 
called immigration”, and “the global warming hoax”.


But there is another tendency: one that believes blockchain tech should 
be used as part of a liberatory political project, one that can