[nlug] Re: Flyer for LinuxFest

[Greg Donald]

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Jack wrote:
> Do what you want. ... Personally I think this is over thinking a simple
> issue.

I think it's more important for newcomers to know the software is free
as in freedom before they learn it is also free as in beer.

I'd add GNU in there somewhere too.  "Linux" is much more than just a kernel.


-- 
Greg Donald
http://destiney.com/

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[nlug] Re: Flyer for LinuxFest

[Jack]

Do what you want. ... Personally I think this is over thinking a simple
issue.
><> ... Jack


On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Manoj Srivastava wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
>All this top posting makes it really hard to properly have a
>  chronological conversation.
>
> On Sun, Aug 30 2009, Doug Smith wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 30 2009, Jack wrote:
> >>>On Sun, Aug 30 2009, Curt Lundgren wrote:
>  The flyer for the September LinuxFest at Watkins College is available:
>  http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.pdf (150k)
>  If the PDF doesn't work for you, here's a JPEG version:
>  http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.jpg (900k)
>
> >>>The flyer implies that the free in Linux applies to cost, and
> >>> not freedom. In other words, free as in beer, not as in speech.  I
> >>> think that is somewhat misleading.
>
> >> Get them in, then we can help them learn the details.  We are not
>
> Not if they are pulled in on the wrong premise; then they only
>  get disgusted with a bait and switch.
>
> >> obfuscating the rights and privileges, but the learning curve can be
> >> overwhelming in so many ways if we hit newbies with everything at
> >> once.
>
> If you pull in people who only are thinking about the cost, you
>  are not pulling in the right kind of people. Self selection on cost,
>  and not on freedom, prevents the kind of people who are critical to
>  free software from getting in.
>
>There is some truth to the adage that what you get for free (as
>  in beer) is not worth much -- if the only context considered id price.
>  Free software is a movement, a community, and a cause -- all based on
>  freedom, not on low price.
>
> > I would concur with Jack.  The "free as in speech" aspect of the GPL
> > is somewhere between confusing and irrelevant for most newbies.  (and
> > a good many experienced users)
> >
> > Not that "free as in speech" is not important, but it's not something
> > new users need to know immediately.
>
> I beg to differ. It is the only really important  part about
>  free software and Linux; otherwise, I see no advantage compared
>  to, say, MAC OSX.
>
>The free as in beer part is something that they can be told at a
>  later date.
>
>As a free software person, an even promoting freedom is of some
>  interest. An event promoting cheap stuff is something to avoid,
>  personally speaking.
>
>manoj
> --
> A student who changes the course of history is probably taking an exam.
> Manoj Srivastava  
> 
> >
> 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
>
> >
>

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[nlug] Re: Flyer for LinuxFest

[Manoj Srivastava]

Hi,

All this top posting makes it really hard to properly have a
 chronological conversation.

On Sun, Aug 30 2009, Doug Smith wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 30 2009, Jack wrote:
>>>On Sun, Aug 30 2009, Curt Lundgren wrote:
 The flyer for the September LinuxFest at Watkins College is available:
 http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.pdf (150k)
 If the PDF doesn't work for you, here's a JPEG version:
 http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.jpg (900k)

>>>The flyer implies that the free in Linux applies to cost, and
>>> not freedom. In other words, free as in beer, not as in speech.  I
>>> think that is somewhat misleading.

>> Get them in, then we can help them learn the details.  We are not

Not if they are pulled in on the wrong premise; then they only
 get disgusted with a bait and switch.

>> obfuscating the rights and privileges, but the learning curve can be
>> overwhelming in so many ways if we hit newbies with everything at
>> once.

If you pull in people who only are thinking about the cost, you
 are not pulling in the right kind of people. Self selection on cost,
 and not on freedom, prevents the kind of people who are critical to
 free software from getting in.

There is some truth to the adage that what you get for free (as
 in beer) is not worth much -- if the only context considered id price.
 Free software is a movement, a community, and a cause -- all based on
 freedom, not on low price.

> I would concur with Jack.  The "free as in speech" aspect of the GPL
> is somewhere between confusing and irrelevant for most newbies.  (and
> a good many experienced users)
>
> Not that "free as in speech" is not important, but it's not something
> new users need to know immediately.   

I beg to differ. It is the only really important  part about
 free software and Linux; otherwise, I see no advantage compared
 to, say, MAC OSX.

The free as in beer part is something that they can be told at a
 later date.

As a free software person, an even promoting freedom is of some
 interest. An event promoting cheap stuff is something to avoid,
 personally speaking.

manoj
-- 
A student who changes the course of history is probably taking an exam.
Manoj Srivastava    
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

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[nlug] Re: Flyer for LinuxFest

[Chris McQuistion]

The new flyer looks great!

Thanks!

Chris


On Aug 30, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Curt Lundgren  wrote:

>
> The flyer for the September LinuxFest at Watkins College is available:
>
> http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.pdf (150k)
>
> If the PDF doesn't work for you, here's a JPEG version:
>
> http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.jpg (900k)
>
> Curt
> >

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[nlug] Re: Flyer for LinuxFest

[Doug Smith]

I would concur with Jack.  The "free as in speech" aspect of the GPL is 
somewhere between confusing and irrelevant for most newbies.  (and a good many 
experienced users)   

Not that "free as in speech" is not important, but it's not something new users 
need to know immediately.  

-Original Message-
>From: Manoj Srivastava 
>Sent: Aug 30, 2009 11:16 AM
>To: nlug-talk@googlegroups.com
>Subject: [nlug] Re: Flyer for LinuxFest
>
>
>On Sun, Aug 30 2009, Curt Lundgren wrote:
>
>> The flyer for the September LinuxFest at Watkins College is available:
>>
>> http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.pdf (150k)
>>
>> If the PDF doesn't work for you, here's a JPEG version:
>>
>> http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.jpg (900k)
>
>The flyer implies that the free in Linux applies to cost, and
> not freedom. In other words, free as in beer, not as in speech.  I
> think that is somewhat misleading.
>
>manoj
>-- 
>Cache: A very expensive part of the memory system of a computer that no
>one is supposed to know is there.
>Manoj Srivastava    
>1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
>
>>


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[nlug] Re: Flyer for LinuxFest

[Jack]

Get them in, then we can help them learn the details.  We are not
obfuscating the
rights and privileges, but the learning curve can be overwhelming in so many
ways
if we hit newbies with everything at once.
><> ... Jack


On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Manoj Srivastava wrote:

>
> On Sun, Aug 30 2009, Curt Lundgren wrote:
>
> > The flyer for the September LinuxFest at Watkins College is available:
> >
> > http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.pdf (150k)
> >
> > If the PDF doesn't work for you, here's a JPEG version:
> >
> > http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.jpg (900k)
>
> The flyer implies that the free in Linux applies to cost, and
>  not freedom. In other words, free as in beer, not as in speech.  I
>  think that is somewhat misleading.
>
>manoj
> --
> Cache: A very expensive part of the memory system of a computer that no
> one is supposed to know is there.
> Manoj Srivastava  
> 
> >
> 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
>
> >
>

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[nlug] Re: Flyer for LinuxFest

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, Aug 30 2009, Curt Lundgren wrote:

> The flyer for the September LinuxFest at Watkins College is available:
>
> http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.pdf (150k)
>
> If the PDF doesn't work for you, here's a JPEG version:
>
> http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.jpg (900k)

The flyer implies that the free in Linux applies to cost, and
 not freedom. In other words, free as in beer, not as in speech.  I
 think that is somewhat misleading.

manoj
-- 
Cache: A very expensive part of the memory system of a computer that no
one is supposed to know is there.
Manoj Srivastava    
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

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[nlug] Flyer for LinuxFest

[Curt Lundgren]

The flyer for the September LinuxFest at Watkins College is available:

http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.pdf (150k)

If the PDF doesn't work for you, here's a JPEG version:

http://www.curtlundgren.com/linuxfest_sept09_flyer.jpg (900k)

Curt
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[nlug] Re: Exercise in massive overkill

[Jim Peterson]

Secondly, if you are going to be collecting credit card
 information, what kind of security protocols you have in mind for
 protecting the data from a malicious insider?  One would not like to
 swipe cards only to learn later that it all got hacked out.

Manoj


Hear, hear! However, I don't know if it's the mild hangover, or just my
twisted sense of humor, but I hear the song "My Own Worst Enemy" playing...

Jim Peterson
Technology Coordinator
Goodnight Memorial Library
203 S. Main St.
Franklin, KY  42134
270.586.8397
www.gmpl.org



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