Re: what's happening?

2002-04-12 Thread Ken Hornstein

A lot, but there's a refusal to kick the ball into the goal.  There have been 
many significant bug fixes over the last couple of years, but the maintainers
don't seem willing to issue a new release to the outside world 
(UNFORTUNATELY!).

Well, it seems like the last maintainer vanished, and I _wanted_ to release
a new version, but I can't access the repository due to some OpenSSH
weirdness.  Not sure what to do from here.

--Ken




Re: what's happening?

2002-04-12 Thread Ken Hornstein

Who has usually rolled releases in the past?  Was that Dan?  I've heard
that there was a lot of unreleased changes in the CVS.  But, I'm sure we
can work through this and get another release out there.

Yes, that was Dan, but he seems to be gone now.

I think I've used up my energy trying to get a release out earlier this
year.  If you want to take the ball, feel free.

--Ken




Re: what's happening?

2002-04-12 Thread Glenn Burkhardt

I can help get a next release out.  At the very least, I can help with
testing, since I use nmh with my mail client.





Re: what's happening?

2002-04-12 Thread Richard Coleman

If I remember correctly, wasn't there still some problems remaining with
the the code in CVS?  I thought I remember some problems with date
processing.

If so, I would suggest rolling back those changes, if necessary.  Then we
should release a snapshot to a wider audience (since it has been a long
time since the last release).  That would at least get things rolling.

Richard Coleman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Who has usually rolled releases in the past?  Was that Dan?  I've heard
 that there was a lot of unreleased changes in the CVS.  But, I'm sure we
 can work through this and get another release out there.
 
 Yes, that was Dan, but he seems to be gone now.
 
 I think I've used up my energy trying to get a release out earlier this
 year.  If you want to take the ball, feel free.
 
 --Ken




Re: what's happening?

2002-04-12 Thread Ken Hornstein

If I remember correctly, wasn't there still some problems remaining with
the the code in CVS?  I thought I remember some problems with date
processing.

IMHO, the only problem was with Dan's perception of the date processing.
I thought the changes were fine.

If so, I would suggest rolling back those changes, if necessary.  Then we
should release a snapshot to a wider audience (since it has been a long
time since the last release).  That would at least get things rolling.

Well, go ahead.

--Ken




Re: what's happening?

2002-04-12 Thread Shantonu Sen

At the time when I updated the code, it worked fine for my purposes, only
differed significantly in:
1) parse failures for spam which often don't have legal (or legible)
headers
2) Date: lines which did not include the timezone. I think previously it
defaulted to assuming the local time zone, which I though was bogus. Now
it defaults to UTC, which is arguably also bogus, but I think less so.

Of course, I may be significantly misremembering. Another problem with the
dtimep.c from 1.0.4 is that it doesn't compile. In order to build it, you
need to run it through a sed script. End-users shouldn't necessarily need
to regenerate the c file from the lex file, so it was an awkward
situation. The new sbr/dtimep.c actually compiles on most platforms.


Shantonu

On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, Ken Hornstein wrote:

 If I remember correctly, wasn't there still some problems remaining with
 the the code in CVS?  I thought I remember some problems with date
 processing.

 IMHO, the only problem was with Dan's perception of the date processing.
 I thought the changes were fine.

 If so, I would suggest rolling back those changes, if necessary.  Then we
 should release a snapshot to a wider audience (since it has been a long
 time since the last release).  That would at least get things rolling.

 Well, go ahead.

 --Ken






Re: what's happening?

2002-04-12 Thread Richard Coleman

It's interesting to see the folks that have been using MH/nmh
for so long.  I've tried a lot of email readers.  I've switched
away from MH/nmh on 4 or 5 occasions.  But I always seem to come
back eventually.

What makes this so amazing is that MH/nmh is not that much code
compared to many of the more modern mail readers.  Outlook probably
has 100 times the lines of code that MH/nmh does.  But, MH/nmh seems
to possess something that can't be found anywhere else.

Richard Coleman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Richard Coleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 ... I was thinking I would do a little hacking again.
 
 
 Delightful news.
 
 PS. I am one of the two authors of the 1977 memo that began mh.
 
 
 Norman Shapiro
 798 Barron Avenue
 Palo Alto CA 94306-3109
 (650) 565-8215
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Re: what's happening?

2002-04-12 Thread norm

Chris Garrigues [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

What was the date of the memo.  I think we may need to celebrate mh's silver 
anniversary.

--- Forwarded Message

Received: from truth.rand.org by rand.org; Tue, 17 Apr 90 09:03:40 -0700
Received: from localhost by truth.rand.org; Tue, 17 Apr 90 09:03:48 PDT
Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robert_Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Phyllis_Kantar phyl@rcc, Tora_Bikson [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Willis_Ware [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: The memo that began mh
Cc: Norman_Shapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 90 09:03:47 PDT
From: norm@truth

Attached is the result of rekeying a hardcopy of the memorandum.
An original softcopy is no longer available.
The rekeying attempted to duplicate the hardcopy including typos.
The hard copy was not dated, but is was sent sometime prior to February
17 1977 and probably sometime after January 17 1977.


To:   Bob Anderson

From: Stock Gaines, Norm Shapiro

Subject:  THE NEXT MESSAGE SYSTEM

Copies:   Dave Crocker, Dave Farber, Carl Sunshine, Steve Tepper,
  Steve Zucker


While the creators of MS are to be congratulated in having
produced a substantial advance over SND and MSG, the current
system, in a couple of ways, falls short of the software for
dealing with messages that we should have in UNIX.  MS as it
stands is in two fundamental and important ways at odds with the
UNIX philosophy and approach.  We think that another iteration on
message software should take place which will provide us with
software the dealing with messages that is again an advance over
MS and will fit in naturally with UNIX in a way that MS does not,
from which a number of practical advantages will follow.  The two
ways in which MS is basically incompatible with the UNIX approach
are first that it is a monolithic system rather than being a set
of functions which are callible from wherever is appropriate, and
second that the storage of messages is not done by making
appropriate use of the file and directory structure (an
exceedingly elegant, simple and powerful one) already existing in
UNIX.

Let us discuss the UNIX way of storing messages first.  As an
alternative to the clumsy method of using a text file and a
structure file, we suggest that instead a mailbox be simply a
directory.  Each message would then be a separate file in that
directory.  If it is necessary to keep additional information
about the files in the directory, that can be done by entering in
the message directory a file containing information about the
messages in the directory.  Notice how many of the things we are
trying to do with the structure file get handled automatically if
this occurs.  For instance, each time a message is written or
read, the file system already automatically updates this
information.  Therefore, a clear indication that we have a new
message in a mail folder is that the instant of writing and
reading is the same.  If they are different then we can test the
time last written to see if the message was received recently or
not.  Dave Crocker has in the past pointed out that the rm
command has the disadvantage that it throws a file away.  It
would be quite appropriate to add a shell command called, say,
dis (for discard) which moves a message from the directory it is
in to a subdirectory of that directory which we may think of as
the discarded messages directory.  These messages can be cleaned
out by some sort of a cleanup command or by software that carries
out this task at appropriate times.  The point is that IF the
garbage retrieval function is desireable for messages, then it is
so for files.  Of course, in the directory structure we have no
information concerning the contents of messages.  However, there
is some reason to be believe that the current design which
retains pointers to each of the components of a message is of no
advantage and may be more costly in execution time than if no
such information were available.  In any event, it is merely an
effort towards efficiency and one which appears to have little
value.

The additional value which would accrue if messages were files is
substantial.  They then become accessible to other software in
the system in a natural, convenient and highly useful way.  The
lack of such accessibility of messages is currently one of the
major deficiencies of MS.  As Steve Tepper has suggested, the
draft message might itself be a directory to expedite its
processing, although it is not clear that the advantages of this
outweigh the advantages of leaving the whole draft as a single
file.

The second major difference we are suggesting between the current
MS and the approach we believe is appropriate for UNIX is that
the functions for dealing with messages should be embodied in
individual command level routines which can be executed by
themselves rather than only being available through a subsystem.
The subsystem approach is appropriate for special situations such
as NED, but