RE: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

2018-08-23 Thread Bill Denney
Hi Bob, Leonid, and Mark,

 

Thanks for this interesting conversation!  I think that it explains some issues 
with models I’d not gotten to the bottom of in the past.

 

Bob, can these timeouts be raised to the user in the main output files?  Or 
even better, could the timeout be automatically raised up to some 
user-configurable fold above the default on timeout, and if it happens again, 
the model is stopped with a message “Parallel processing timeout, increase 
TIMEOUT in the .pnm file or troubleshoot lost calculation nodes.”

 

It seems like ignoring a subset of the data due to a timeout should not give 
results.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill 

 

From: owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com  On Behalf Of 
Bauer, Robert
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:49 PM
To: Mark Sale ; Leonid Gibiansky 
; nmusers@globomaxnm.com
Subject: RE: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

 

Mark:

You would also likely see in the .phi file that the OBJ values may be 0 for 
those subjects not collected.

 

The solution is as Leonid said, increase TIMEOUT in the pnm file.

 

Robert J. Bauer, Ph.D.

Senior Director

Pharmacometrics R

ICON Early Phase

820 W. Diamond Avenue

Suite 100

Gaithersburg, MD 20878

Office: (215) 616-6428

Mobile: (925) 286-0769

 <mailto:robert.ba...@iconplc.com> robert.ba...@iconplc.com

 <http://www.iconplc.com/> www.iconplc.com

 

From: owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com <mailto:owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com>  
[mailto:owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sale
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 11:37 AM
To: Leonid Gibiansky; nmusers@globomaxnm.com <mailto:nmusers@globomaxnm.com> 
Subject: Re: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

 

thanks Leonid,

I looked at that, and ossilation/sampling doesn't seem to be the issue, mean 
was 20804.0136597062, SD = 2.19872089635881.

And the OBJ is very stable in the minimzation part, up until the last 
iteration/covariance iteration.  

It was run parallel, and I guess that your comment about not waiting for all 
the workers concerns me. There is a timeout event in the log file:

ITERATION   70

 STARTING SUBJECTS  1 TO8 ON MANAGER: OK

 STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON WORKER1: OK

 STARTING SUBJECTS 18 TO   32 ON WORKER2: OK

 STARTING SUBJECTS 33 TO   85 ON WORKER3: OK

 COLLECTING SUBJECTS1 TO8 ON MANAGER

 COLLECTING SUBJECTS   18 TO   32 ON WORKER2

 COLLECTING SUBJECTS9 TO   17 ON WORKER1

 COLLECTING SUBJECTS   33 TO   85 ON WORKER3

 ITERATION   70

 STARTING SUBJECTS  1 TO8 ON MANAGER: OK

 STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON WORKER1: OK

 STARTING SUBJECTS 18 TO   32 ON WORKER2: OK

 STARTING SUBJECTS 33 TO   85 ON WORKER3: OK

 COLLECTING SUBJECTS1 TO8 ON MANAGER

 TIMEOUT FROM WORKER1

 RESUBMITTING JOB TO LOCAL

 STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON MANAGER: OK

 COLLECTING SUBJECTS   18 TO   32 ON WORKER2

 

and no mention of collecting subjects 33 to 85 on worker 3, or subjects 9 to 17 
on worker 1.

 

so, that could be  the problem.

Bob - thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

Mark Sale M.D.

Senior Vice President, Pharmacometrics

Nuventra Pharma Sciences, Inc.

2525 Meridian Parkway, Suite 200

Durham, NC 27713

Phone (919)-973-0383

ms...@nuventra.com 

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this transmittal (including 
attachments, if any) may be privileged and confidential and is intended only 
for the recipient(s) listed above. Any review, use, disclosure, distribution or 
copying of this transmittal, in any form, is prohibited except by or on behalf 
of the intended recipient(s). If you have received this transmittal in error, 
please notify me immediately by reply email and destroy all copies of the 
transmittal.

  _  

From: Leonid Gibiansky mailto:lgibian...@quantpharm.com> >
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 11:14:51 AM
To: Mark Sale; nmusers@globomaxnm.com <mailto:nmusers@globomaxnm.com> 
Subject: Re: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question 

 

Mark,

IMPMAP procedure produces run.cnv file. There you can find mean and SD 
of OF (over the last few iterations that were considered for convergence 
stop). I use these numbers for covariate assessment as 
iteration-to-iteration numbers oscillate and cannot be reliably compared.

Concerning the last iteration OF drop, cannot tell for sure but I've 
seen OF drops in some cases when the main manager do not wait for the 
slaves to return OF of their portion of the data. prn file has 
parameters TIMEOUTI and TIMEOUT, and I would try to increase them and 
see whether this fixes the problem

Thanks
Leonid




On 8/23/2018 1:54 PM, Mark Sale wrote:
> I have a model that seems to be behaving strangely, looking for 
> interpretation help
> 
> 
> in model building, the OBJ is usually ~20900. Until this model, where, on the 
> covariance step (IMPMAP method) the OBJ drops 90

RE: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

2018-08-23 Thread Bauer, Robert
Mark:
You would also likely see in the .phi file that the OBJ values may be 0 for 
those subjects not collected.

The solution is as Leonid said, increase TIMEOUT in the pnm file.

Robert J. Bauer, Ph.D.
Senior Director
Pharmacometrics R
ICON Early Phase
820 W. Diamond Avenue
Suite 100
Gaithersburg, MD 20878
Office: (215) 616-6428
Mobile: (925) 286-0769
robert.ba...@iconplc.com<mailto:robert.ba...@iconplc.com>
www.iconplc.com<http://www.iconplc.com/>

From: owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com [mailto:owner-nmus...@globomaxnm.com] On 
Behalf Of Mark Sale
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 11:37 AM
To: Leonid Gibiansky; nmusers@globomaxnm.com
Subject: Re: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question


thanks Leonid,

I looked at that, and ossilation/sampling doesn't seem to be the issue, mean 
was 20804.0136597062, SD = 2.19872089635881.

And the OBJ is very stable in the minimzation part, up until the last 
iteration/covariance iteration.

It was run parallel, and I guess that your comment about not waiting for all 
the workers concerns me. There is a timeout event in the log file:
ITERATION   70
 STARTING SUBJECTS  1 TO8 ON MANAGER: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON WORKER1: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS 18 TO   32 ON WORKER2: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS 33 TO   85 ON WORKER3: OK
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS1 TO8 ON MANAGER
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS   18 TO   32 ON WORKER2
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS9 TO   17 ON WORKER1
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS   33 TO   85 ON WORKER3
 ITERATION   70
 STARTING SUBJECTS  1 TO8 ON MANAGER: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON WORKER1: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS 18 TO   32 ON WORKER2: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS 33 TO   85 ON WORKER3: OK
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS1 TO8 ON MANAGER
 TIMEOUT FROM WORKER1
 RESUBMITTING JOB TO LOCAL
 STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON MANAGER: OK
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS   18 TO   32 ON WORKER2

and no mention of collecting subjects 33 to 85 on worker 3, or subjects 9 to 17 
on worker 1.

so, that could be  the problem.
Bob - thoughts?







Mark Sale M.D.
Senior Vice President, Pharmacometrics
Nuventra Pharma Sciences, Inc.
2525 Meridian Parkway, Suite 200
Durham, NC 27713
Phone (919)-973-0383
ms...@nuventra.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this transmittal (including 
attachments, if any) may be privileged and confidential and is intended only 
for the recipient(s) listed above. Any review, use, disclosure, distribution or 
copying of this transmittal, in any form, is prohibited except by or on behalf 
of the intended recipient(s). If you have received this transmittal in error, 
please notify me immediately by reply email and destroy all copies of the 
transmittal.

From: Leonid Gibiansky 
mailto:lgibian...@quantpharm.com>>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 11:14:51 AM
To: Mark Sale; nmusers@globomaxnm.com<mailto:nmusers@globomaxnm.com>
Subject: Re: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

Mark,

IMPMAP procedure produces run.cnv file. There you can find mean and SD
of OF (over the last few iterations that were considered for convergence
stop). I use these numbers for covariate assessment as
iteration-to-iteration numbers oscillate and cannot be reliably compared.

Concerning the last iteration OF drop, cannot tell for sure but I've
seen OF drops in some cases when the main manager do not wait for the
slaves to return OF of their portion of the data. prn file has
parameters TIMEOUTI and TIMEOUT, and I would try to increase them and
see whether this fixes the problem

Thanks
Leonid




On 8/23/2018 1:54 PM, Mark Sale wrote:
> I have a model that seems to be behaving strangely, looking for 
> interpretation help
>
>
> in model building, the OBJ is usually ~20900. Until this model, where, on the 
> covariance step (IMPMAP method) the OBJ drops 9000  points (20798 to 11837), 
> monitoring from output file below
>
>
>
> iteration   70 OBJ=   20798.6782833867 eff.=5530. Smpl.=   1. 
> Fit.= 0.99524
>   Convergence achieved
>   iteration   70 OBJ=   11837.9045704476 eff.=5475. Smpl.=   
> 1. Fit.= 0.99522
>
> Parameters don't change much (edited .ext file below).
>
> 50 1.35E+01 9.96E-01 4.42E-02 9.41E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20799.68932
> 60 1.35E+01 9.67E-01 4.45E-02 9.43E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20792.90665
> 70 1.35E+01 9.73E-01 4.44E-02 9.44E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20798.67828
> 70 1.35E+01 9.73E-01 4.44E-02 9.44E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 11837.90457
>
>
> Plots don't look particularly different than other model (and look pretty 
> good), p values for ETAs are very reasonable, it converges, condition # is 
> good. Only two issues:
> RSE for 2 OMEGAs is a little large (0.5)
> an interoccasion variability term (on V) is very large (~4, exponential). 
> This

Re: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

2018-08-23 Thread Leonid Gibiansky
yes, that is it, I've seen timeout results in OF drop, just increase the 
times that I mentioned, it should/could be OK after that.



On 8/23/2018 2:36 PM, Mark Sale wrote:

thanks Leonid,

I looked at that, and ossilation/sampling doesn't seem to be the issue, mean 
was 20804.0136597062, SD = 2.19872089635881.

And the OBJ is very stable in the minimzation part, up until the last 
iteration/covariance iteration.

It was run parallel, and I guess that your comment about not waiting for all 
the workers concerns me. There is a timeout event in the log file:

ITERATION   70
  STARTING SUBJECTS  1 TO8 ON MANAGER: OK
  STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON WORKER1: OK
  STARTING SUBJECTS 18 TO   32 ON WORKER2: OK
  STARTING SUBJECTS 33 TO   85 ON WORKER3: OK
  COLLECTING SUBJECTS1 TO8 ON MANAGER
  COLLECTING SUBJECTS   18 TO   32 ON WORKER2
  COLLECTING SUBJECTS9 TO   17 ON WORKER1
  COLLECTING SUBJECTS   33 TO   85 ON WORKER3
  ITERATION   70
  STARTING SUBJECTS  1 TO8 ON MANAGER: OK
  STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON WORKER1: OK
  STARTING SUBJECTS 18 TO   32 ON WORKER2: OK
  STARTING SUBJECTS 33 TO   85 ON WORKER3: OK
  COLLECTING SUBJECTS1 TO8 ON MANAGER
  TIMEOUT FROM WORKER1
  RESUBMITTING JOB TO LOCAL
  STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON MANAGER: OK
  COLLECTING SUBJECTS   18 TO   32 ON WORKER2

and no mention of collecting subjects 33 to 85 on worker 3, or subjects 9 to 17 
on worker 1.

so, that could be  the problem.
Bob - thoughts?





Mark Sale M.D.
Senior Vice President, Pharmacometrics
Nuventra Pharma Sciences, Inc.
2525 Meridian Parkway, Suite 200
Durham, NC 27713
Phone (919)-973-0383
ms...@nuventra.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this transmittal (including 
attachments, if any) may be privileged and confidential and is intended only 
for the recipient(s) listed above. Any review, use, disclosure, distribution or 
copying of this transmittal, in any form, is prohibited except by or on behalf 
of the intended recipient(s). If you have received this transmittal in error, 
please notify me immediately by reply email and destroy all copies of the 
transmittal.

From: Leonid Gibiansky 
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 11:14:51 AM
To: Mark Sale; nmusers@globomaxnm.com
Subject: Re: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

Mark,

IMPMAP procedure produces run.cnv file. There you can find mean and SD
of OF (over the last few iterations that were considered for convergence
stop). I use these numbers for covariate assessment as
iteration-to-iteration numbers oscillate and cannot be reliably compared.

Concerning the last iteration OF drop, cannot tell for sure but I've
seen OF drops in some cases when the main manager do not wait for the
slaves to return OF of their portion of the data. prn file has
parameters TIMEOUTI and TIMEOUT, and I would try to increase them and
see whether this fixes the problem

Thanks
Leonid




On 8/23/2018 1:54 PM, Mark Sale wrote:

I have a model that seems to be behaving strangely, looking for interpretation 
help


in model building, the OBJ is usually ~20900. Until this model, where, on the 
covariance step (IMPMAP method) the OBJ drops 9000  points (20798 to 11837), 
monitoring from output file below



iteration   70 OBJ=   20798.6782833867 eff.=5530. Smpl.=   1. 
Fit.= 0.99524
   Convergence achieved
   iteration   70 OBJ=   11837.9045704476 eff.=5475. Smpl.=   
1. Fit.= 0.99522

Parameters don't change much (edited .ext file below).

50 1.35E+01 9.96E-01 4.42E-02 9.41E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20799.68932
60 1.35E+01 9.67E-01 4.45E-02 9.43E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20792.90665
70 1.35E+01 9.73E-01 4.44E-02 9.44E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20798.67828
70 1.35E+01 9.73E-01 4.44E-02 9.44E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 11837.90457


Plots don't look particularly different than other model (and look pretty 
good), p values for ETAs are very reasonable, it converges, condition # is 
good. Only two issues:
RSE for 2 OMEGAs is a little large (0.5)
an interoccasion variability term (on V) is very large (~4, exponential). This 
is, I think, related to many subjects with data only at steady state.

Further, when I advance this model, add another covariate, or another IOV on 
CL, to address the issue with SS data, cannot identify Volume uniquely (using 
the final parameter from this model as the initial in the next model), I cannot 
reproduce these results - the OBJ goes back to ~20,800, with essentially the 
same parameter estimates. So I end up rejected all additional covariates in 
this model  (at least by LRT).


other details, running on Windows, 64 bit, Intel compiler, NONMEM version 7.3.


Can I believe this OBJ value? Should I base an additional hypotheses on the 
SEE, rather than the LRT?

But, basically, why is this happening

Re: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

2018-08-23 Thread Mark Sale
thanks Leonid,

I looked at that, and ossilation/sampling doesn't seem to be the issue, mean 
was 20804.0136597062, SD = 2.19872089635881.

And the OBJ is very stable in the minimzation part, up until the last 
iteration/covariance iteration.

It was run parallel, and I guess that your comment about not waiting for all 
the workers concerns me. There is a timeout event in the log file:

ITERATION   70
 STARTING SUBJECTS  1 TO8 ON MANAGER: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON WORKER1: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS 18 TO   32 ON WORKER2: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS 33 TO   85 ON WORKER3: OK
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS1 TO8 ON MANAGER
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS   18 TO   32 ON WORKER2
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS9 TO   17 ON WORKER1
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS   33 TO   85 ON WORKER3
 ITERATION   70
 STARTING SUBJECTS  1 TO8 ON MANAGER: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON WORKER1: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS 18 TO   32 ON WORKER2: OK
 STARTING SUBJECTS 33 TO   85 ON WORKER3: OK
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS1 TO8 ON MANAGER
 TIMEOUT FROM WORKER1
 RESUBMITTING JOB TO LOCAL
 STARTING SUBJECTS  9 TO   17 ON MANAGER: OK
 COLLECTING SUBJECTS   18 TO   32 ON WORKER2

and no mention of collecting subjects 33 to 85 on worker 3, or subjects 9 to 17 
on worker 1.

so, that could be  the problem.
Bob - thoughts?





Mark Sale M.D.
Senior Vice President, Pharmacometrics
Nuventra Pharma Sciences, Inc.
2525 Meridian Parkway, Suite 200
Durham, NC 27713
Phone (919)-973-0383
ms...@nuventra.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this transmittal (including 
attachments, if any) may be privileged and confidential and is intended only 
for the recipient(s) listed above. Any review, use, disclosure, distribution or 
copying of this transmittal, in any form, is prohibited except by or on behalf 
of the intended recipient(s). If you have received this transmittal in error, 
please notify me immediately by reply email and destroy all copies of the 
transmittal.

From: Leonid Gibiansky 
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 11:14:51 AM
To: Mark Sale; nmusers@globomaxnm.com
Subject: Re: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

Mark,

IMPMAP procedure produces run.cnv file. There you can find mean and SD
of OF (over the last few iterations that were considered for convergence
stop). I use these numbers for covariate assessment as
iteration-to-iteration numbers oscillate and cannot be reliably compared.

Concerning the last iteration OF drop, cannot tell for sure but I've
seen OF drops in some cases when the main manager do not wait for the
slaves to return OF of their portion of the data. prn file has
parameters TIMEOUTI and TIMEOUT, and I would try to increase them and
see whether this fixes the problem

Thanks
Leonid




On 8/23/2018 1:54 PM, Mark Sale wrote:
> I have a model that seems to be behaving strangely, looking for 
> interpretation help
>
>
> in model building, the OBJ is usually ~20900. Until this model, where, on the 
> covariance step (IMPMAP method) the OBJ drops 9000  points (20798 to 11837), 
> monitoring from output file below
>
>
>
> iteration   70 OBJ=   20798.6782833867 eff.=5530. Smpl.=   1. 
> Fit.= 0.99524
>   Convergence achieved
>   iteration   70 OBJ=   11837.9045704476 eff.=5475. Smpl.=   
> 1. Fit.= 0.99522
>
> Parameters don't change much (edited .ext file below).
>
> 50 1.35E+01 9.96E-01 4.42E-02 9.41E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20799.68932
> 60 1.35E+01 9.67E-01 4.45E-02 9.43E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20792.90665
> 70 1.35E+01 9.73E-01 4.44E-02 9.44E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20798.67828
> 70 1.35E+01 9.73E-01 4.44E-02 9.44E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 11837.90457
>
>
> Plots don't look particularly different than other model (and look pretty 
> good), p values for ETAs are very reasonable, it converges, condition # is 
> good. Only two issues:
> RSE for 2 OMEGAs is a little large (0.5)
> an interoccasion variability term (on V) is very large (~4, exponential). 
> This is, I think, related to many subjects with data only at steady state.
>
> Further, when I advance this model, add another covariate, or another IOV on 
> CL, to address the issue with SS data, cannot identify Volume uniquely (using 
> the final parameter from this model as the initial in the next model), I 
> cannot reproduce these results - the OBJ goes back to ~20,800, with 
> essentially the same parameter estimates. So I end up rejected all additional 
> covariates in this model  (at least by LRT).
>
>
> other details, running on Windows, 64 bit, Intel compiler, NONMEM version 7.3.
>
>
> Can I believe this OBJ value? Should I base an additional hypotheses on the 
> SEE, rather than the LRT?
>
> But, basically, why is t

Re: [NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

2018-08-23 Thread Leonid Gibiansky

Mark,

IMPMAP procedure produces run.cnv file. There you can find mean and SD 
of OF (over the last few iterations that were considered for convergence 
stop). I use these numbers for covariate assessment as 
iteration-to-iteration numbers oscillate and cannot be reliably compared.


Concerning the last iteration OF drop, cannot tell for sure but I've 
seen OF drops in some cases when the main manager do not wait for the 
slaves to return OF of their portion of the data. prn file has 
parameters TIMEOUTI and TIMEOUT, and I would try to increase them and 
see whether this fixes the problem


Thanks
Leonid




On 8/23/2018 1:54 PM, Mark Sale wrote:

I have a model that seems to be behaving strangely, looking for interpretation 
help


in model building, the OBJ is usually ~20900. Until this model, where, on the 
covariance step (IMPMAP method) the OBJ drops 9000  points (20798 to 11837), 
monitoring from output file below



iteration   70 OBJ=   20798.6782833867 eff.=5530. Smpl.=   1. 
Fit.= 0.99524
  Convergence achieved
  iteration   70 OBJ=   11837.9045704476 eff.=5475. Smpl.=   1. 
Fit.= 0.99522

Parameters don't change much (edited .ext file below).

50 1.35E+01 9.96E-01 4.42E-02 9.41E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20799.68932
60 1.35E+01 9.67E-01 4.45E-02 9.43E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20792.90665
70 1.35E+01 9.73E-01 4.44E-02 9.44E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20798.67828
70 1.35E+01 9.73E-01 4.44E-02 9.44E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 11837.90457


Plots don't look particularly different than other model (and look pretty 
good), p values for ETAs are very reasonable, it converges, condition # is 
good. Only two issues:
RSE for 2 OMEGAs is a little large (0.5)
an interoccasion variability term (on V) is very large (~4, exponential). This 
is, I think, related to many subjects with data only at steady state.

Further, when I advance this model, add another covariate, or another IOV on 
CL, to address the issue with SS data, cannot identify Volume uniquely (using 
the final parameter from this model as the initial in the next model), I cannot 
reproduce these results - the OBJ goes back to ~20,800, with essentially the 
same parameter estimates. So I end up rejected all additional covariates in 
this model  (at least by LRT).


other details, running on Windows, 64 bit, Intel compiler, NONMEM version 7.3.


Can I believe this OBJ value? Should I base an additional hypotheses on the 
SEE, rather than the LRT?

But, basically, why is this happening?

thanks



Mark Sale M.D.
Senior Vice President, Pharmacometrics
Nuventra Pharma Sciences, Inc.
2525 Meridian Parkway, Suite 200
Durham, NC 27713
Phone (919)-973-0383
ms...@nuventra.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this transmittal (including 
attachments, if any) may be privileged and confidential and is intended only 
for the recipient(s) listed above. Any review, use, disclosure, distribution or 
copying of this transmittal, in any form, is prohibited except by or on behalf 
of the intended recipient(s). If you have received this transmittal in error, 
please notify me immediately by reply email and destroy all copies of the 
transmittal.







[NMusers] IMPMAP behavior question

2018-08-23 Thread Mark Sale
I have a model that seems to be behaving strangely, looking for interpretation 
help


in model building, the OBJ is usually ~20900. Until this model, where, on the 
covariance step (IMPMAP method) the OBJ drops 9000  points (20798 to 11837), 
monitoring from output file below



iteration   70 OBJ=   20798.6782833867 eff.=5530. Smpl.=   1. 
Fit.= 0.99524
 Convergence achieved
 iteration   70 OBJ=   11837.9045704476 eff.=5475. Smpl.=   1. 
Fit.= 0.99522

Parameters don't change much (edited .ext file below).

50 1.35E+01 9.96E-01 4.42E-02 9.41E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20799.68932
60 1.35E+01 9.67E-01 4.45E-02 9.43E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20792.90665
70 1.35E+01 9.73E-01 4.44E-02 9.44E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 20798.67828
70 1.35E+01 9.73E-01 4.44E-02 9.44E-01 3.05E+01 1.29E-01 11837.90457


Plots don't look particularly different than other model (and look pretty 
good), p values for ETAs are very reasonable, it converges, condition # is 
good. Only two issues:
RSE for 2 OMEGAs is a little large (0.5)
an interoccasion variability term (on V) is very large (~4, exponential). This 
is, I think, related to many subjects with data only at steady state.

Further, when I advance this model, add another covariate, or another IOV on 
CL, to address the issue with SS data, cannot identify Volume uniquely (using 
the final parameter from this model as the initial in the next model), I cannot 
reproduce these results - the OBJ goes back to ~20,800, with essentially the 
same parameter estimates. So I end up rejected all additional covariates in 
this model  (at least by LRT).


other details, running on Windows, 64 bit, Intel compiler, NONMEM version 7.3.


Can I believe this OBJ value? Should I base an additional hypotheses on the 
SEE, rather than the LRT?

But, basically, why is this happening?

thanks



Mark Sale M.D.
Senior Vice President, Pharmacometrics
Nuventra Pharma Sciences, Inc.
2525 Meridian Parkway, Suite 200
Durham, NC 27713
Phone (919)-973-0383
ms...@nuventra.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this transmittal (including 
attachments, if any) may be privileged and confidential and is intended only 
for the recipient(s) listed above. Any review, use, disclosure, distribution or 
copying of this transmittal, in any form, is prohibited except by or on behalf 
of the intended recipient(s). If you have received this transmittal in error, 
please notify me immediately by reply email and destroy all copies of the 
transmittal.