[NSP] Re: Choyting
Adrian
Choyting in open fingering in conjunction with a note, open fingered to
the note higher and then back to the note. Eg:
D E D
There are at least two other types of gracenote that we commonly hear
both in recordings and in performance.
The first is called by Scots pipers a 'half doubling' and consists of
a higher note played just after the inception of a melody note. In abc
notation you'd have, for an e half doubling on d,
{de}d
The second is where the introductory gracenote is played low, as in
(d)e
You can hear both of these, for example, in the first line of Kathryn
Tickell's Keel Row in Back to the Hills.
Do you also object to these two ornaments?
Did Tom Clough you have any derogatory names for them?
Ross
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[NSP] Re: More choyting!
Sounds more like Billy Smart than Billy Pigg. The possibilities are endless - pipers could arrive at performances in a car where the doors fall off! Is there any chance the NPS could manufacture Society badges that squirt water in people's faces, and should the audience at competitions throw custard pies to create a general sense of hilarity? :) Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 August 2008 14:30 To: Ormston, Chris Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: More choyting! What about the Three Tenors doing doing all that warbling at the end of O Sole Mio. It was done in fun and because they could do it and it went down a storm. Why can't we do the same thing on our pipes if we want to for fun and mischief to get laughter and response from our listeners?which is probably the main thing we are trying to do in playing in public (you could do it in a forest as well even if no one is listening). Something like jazz compared to classical playing. Cromwell would have been proud of this strict puritanical rule of no more than one finger off at a time that Clough is supposed to have advocated. Colin -Original Message- From: Ormston, Chris lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: colin lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:03 Subject: [NSP] Re: More choyting! Colin said:I often wonder why the style of playing causes so much attention and why the odd choyte causes so much concern..Imagine if Pavarotti had thrown in the odd yodel in Nessun Dorma, and you'll get the idea! lt;gringt;ChrisThe information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited.To get on or off this list see list information at htt! p://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: More choyting!
I'm new - hello! Live in France, am a professional singer and play pipes as an attempt to connect with my roots (originally from Northumberland). On this choyting, it seems simple - we have the same debates in singing 'is it tradtional to do such and such' - it seems to me that you're perfectly free to do what you want on your pipes, and if others don't like it tough. You can't, however, expect them to approve of it just because it's your right - if you choose to play in a style other than what is currently defined as traditional (which is a funny concept in itself) then you must accept that some people won't like it. Just play for those who do and avoid those who don't. I think Volatire once said - Cultivate everything that people condemn you for doing - that's who you really are. Whilst, of course, this statement is open to much debate, I think we can loosely apply it here. If you like choyting, choyt away as much as you want and give a virtual finger-up to those who complain, but don't then expect those people to accept your way of doing things and don't pretend to be doing something 'traditional'. To each his own. If you like doing it and people like listening to you do it, then you don't need anyone's approval. Allan (ducks for oncoming pies and tries to get the e hole to sound in tune...) Le 26 août 08 à 16:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : On 26 Aug 2008, Ormston, Chris wrote: should the audience at competitions throw custard pies to create a general sense of hilarity? :) Only at the judge!!! Isn't this a game of verbal custard pies we're having? Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: More choyting!
I think that's what I was trying to express and the classical/jazz example is how I think of it. I am very much in favour of a rigid set of competition rules (he/she who choytes loses) but any musical instrument is open to the interpretation of the individual player. True, they should first be able to play correctly and, once they can, be free to experiment. Again, someone suggested a car with the doors that drop off like the clowns have. Clowns have to be very skilled gymnasts to do those falls without hurting themselves and, only when they have become skilled in the art can go on to clowning. Alas, we do have some players (hangs head in shame) who haven't reached that standard and so choyte away because it sounds nice for that particular tune or because they haven't the skill to play with closed fingering (a good choyte can hide a multitude of fumbles and mistakes). maybe we should have a society red nose for such players :) Can I put my name down now. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:29 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: More choyting! What about the Three Tenors doing doing all that warbling at the end of O Sole Mio. It was done in fun and because they could do it and it went down a storm. Why can't we do the same thing on our pipes if we want to for fun and mischief to get laughter and response from our listeners?which is probably the main thing we are trying to do in playing in public (you could do it in a forest as well even if no one is listening). Something like jazz compared to classical playing. Cromwell would have been proud of this strict puritanical rule of no more than one finger off at a time that Clough is supposed to have advocated. Colin -Original Message- From: Ormston, Chris lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: colin lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:03 Subject: [NSP] Re: More choyting! Colin said:I often wonder why the style of playing causes so much attention and why the odd choyte causes so much concern..Imagine if Pavarotti had thrown in the odd yodel in Nessun Dorma, and you'll get the idea! lt;gringt;ChrisThe information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited.To get on or off this list see list information at htt! p://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: connecting with one's roots
Well, if I chose instruments based simply on whether I liked the sound of them and the size of the repertoire, I'd have a fairly long list of instruments to play, hm? I already play violin, piano and cello and sing so already have a fair few delightful instruments with large and interesting repertoires. I chose the pipes because they remind me of where I came from and I confess to a certain nostalgia when I hear them - sorry if that sounds twee, I'll try to make up some interesting nonsense next time I post. Cheers, Allan Le 26 août 08 à 17:19, Paul Gretton a écrit : Allan wrote: I .. play pipes as an attempt to connect with my roots. Groan! How about playing the pipes because they are a delightful musical instrument with a large and interesting repertoire? Cheers, Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: More choyting!
Francis, Parlour' could be considered 'folk', in that it is an 'intimate' 'ritualistic' social performance. But again this is where we get into the difficulties of defining folk, and wether or not it is the domain of the 'working class'. Reg Hall thinks it is, 'folk music belongs to people lower down the social scale' (Hall 1999 p8). I 'disagree', and would suggest that because of patronage, elites engaged with folk music. This assumes an easy distinction between the classes which is not really a debate for this site, rather their is a wide spectrum of social scales in between our stereotypical assumptions So if we remove the distinction, we see a social relationship that suggest Folk Music belongs to all the people. whatever their class. This cuts through the romantic notion of not just the 'shepherd' but also the 'miner' etc. On the Wright Allan's suggestion that he is playing playing NSP to connect with his rootsnothing wrong with that. If any of us think that playing NSP or any other instrument is 'not' a representation of our identities then we need to look closer. Steve D -- Original message -- From: Francis Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 26 Aug 2008, at 10:38, Ormston, Chris wrote: whether NSP were ever much of a 'folk' instrument Never. A parlour instrument from the very start. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: connecting with one's roots
Le 26 août 08 à 19:35, Paul Gretton a écrit : I can also see that growing up in Northumberland, Ireland, Brittany or Scotland - with a certain instrument as part of the scenery - might lead you to play a certain type of pipe. Why the condescending groan at my desire to play the instrument of my youth, then... I grew up in Northumberland. I miss it. I play the pipes for that reason. Does that not fit into your statement? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds...
Allan wrote: Why the condescending groan at my desire to play the instrument of my youth, I simply find it hard to understand why anyone would play any musical instrument for any reason other than musical. I grew up in Northumberland. I miss it. Without any irony or sarcasm, I understand entirely. I wish I'd grown up in a place worth missing rather than in Scumbag City. I play the pipes for that reason. Does that not fit into your statement?= Hmmm... all I can say is that I just don't get it. I too live abroad - have done for 36 years - but I don't see how choosing to play a particular instrument would reconnect me to my youth (assuming that that would be a good thing). Cheers (and not wishing to be unpleasant in any way). Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Choyting
Now you're really worrying me! As a new player of NSP, thousands of miles from the Sources of Knowledge, hours away from the nearest player (assuming list-founder Wayne isn't playing nowadays!), who relies on his ears and some sixth sense, I don't know what to make of this last bit from Adrian. The previous 257 notes about choyting have hammered in the separation of notes, thank you. But this is the first I've heard of the only grace notes from below rule! Is this a) Clough, b) Adrian, c) accepted by Purists, or d) pulling the other one? Thank you, Vox Clamantis In Deserto On Aug 25, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Adrian wrote: Choyting in open fingering in conjunction with a note, open fingered to the note higher and then back to the note. Eg: D E D If one can do gracenotes without open fingering, that would be considered correct. The chanter is a closed tube and the detached method is the only method. Or cheat! Also, to grace a note with a higher note detracts from the the original note because it is higher in pitch and that distorts the tune. Clough Adrian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds...
Er, I have lived in Liverpool since 1954. (Welsh by birth). I'm sure Newcastle has areas one would not venture into at night as well (yes, I have been there). Liverpool is also rather well known for it's musical heritage (and not just it's pop heritage). There were many Folk clubs during the 60's - 80's including a few excellent traditional clubs (I ran one - and played my pipes there which few people had ever heard of then and got quite a few plugs for the LP Wild Hills o'Wannie which people went out and bought). My roots? A fishing village in Anglesey North Wales. My home? Liverpool and quite happy here. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Paul Gretton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: [NSP] the cry of the curlew, the wind in the reeds... Allan wrote: Why the condescending groan at my desire to play the instrument of my youth, I simply find it hard to understand why anyone would play any musical instrument for any reason other than musical. I grew up in Northumberland. I miss it. Without any irony or sarcasm, I understand entirely. I wish I'd grown up in a place worth missing rather than in Scumbag City. I play the pipes for that reason. Does that not fit into your statement?= Hmmm... all I can say is that I just don't get it. I too live abroad - have done for 36 years - but I don't see how choosing to play a particular instrument would reconnect me to my youth (assuming that that would be a good thing). Cheers (and not wishing to be unpleasant in any way). Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: It's not the leaving of Liverpool that grieves me -- quite the opposite!
We were quite happy to get rid of him (in fact, after that comment, his topiary figure outside the South Parkway park 'n' ride station suddenly had no head (it's been replaced now). I have visited many cities in the UK and abroad and haven't found any I prefer. Mind you we could probably turn all the southerners into real human beings. I avoid the IOM, don't trust people with 3 legs. inveterate choyters, if you ask me :) Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Paul Gretton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:57 PM Subject: [NSP] It's not the leaving of Liverpool that grieves me -- quite the opposite! Colin Hill wrote Er, I have lived in Liverpool since 1954. Don't worry, it's never too late to leave. As you probably heard on the news last week, the government has plans for disposing of Liverpool and moving everyone down to the southeast. Not missing Liverpool has also recently been approved by St. Ringo Starr. Cheers, Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: connecting with one's roots
Like most of you, I took up the NSP for the money, fame and loose women. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
