[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
This is something that no other bagpipe can do. In fact it would be difficult to think of another wind instrument capable of silence whilst pressure is applied. At present I can only identify the ocarina. Uilleann pipes, chanter stopped on knee, all fingers down? CB To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tradition
Quite! C -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dru Brooke-Taylor Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 2:07 PM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Tradition Has it occurred to anyone that once a tradition has started to get self conscious about it's identity, it's got problems? A tradition that is still fully living as a tradition, is just 'how things are', without needing to ask itself what is traditional and what isn't. It even decides what it doesn't like, or rejects, just on the basis that 'we don't like that' or 'other people may, but we don't do it that way'. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Quite, again! C -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Richard York Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 2:51 PM To: Francis Wood; NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead Hello Francis, Quite so, but, playing devil's advocate for a minute, (and loving tradition except where it becomes tribal), does the fact that we can play staccato and 99% of other pipes can't, mean it's all we should do? The harpsichord, after all, could only really play staccato or slightly sustained, and then the piano came in and could play long sustained, but it doesn't mean we don't still use staccato as part of the vocabulary on the piano. I'm not doubting the value of detached playing at all, it really is the best thing most of the time, but just wanting the occasional extra bit of vocabulary. And as a matter of taste more than a tiny bit of smooth really doesn't suit the nsp's to my mind, but like some spices, the occasional addition can go a long way. I speak more as a listener than claiming great expertise in playing here. Best wishes, Richard. PS should the proper piping movement consider calling itself the Real piping movement? Hi Colin and others, The closed-fingering technique derives much more from the nature of the instrument rather than any opinions about style. Since the NSP chanter has a stopped end, there would be little point in adopting anything other than this fingering style, which allows separate notes with (usually) a distinguishable silence between each. This is something that no other bagpipe can do. In fact it would be difficult to think of another wind instrument capable of silence whilst pressure is applied. At present I can only identify the ocarina. The limits of any bag-blown chanter/ oboe are obvious. Almost no opportunity for dynamics, and very little for on-the-go tuning. The scale of the primitive NSP chanter is confined to eight notes. This is clearly a chicken egg situation - the construction and the style of playing of instruments are closely related, and neither predates the other. What commonly happens with almost any musical instrument is that its limitations are adopted into the playing style as highly identifiable and positive features. Hence, closed fingering. Operated by open minds. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_9926SPAM=truepath=C:\Docum ents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Da ta\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: arrogant
Hear hear, and position has only one s. Adrian of all people talking about bad spelling! You couldn't make it up. C -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Julia Say Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 3:13 PM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Inky- Adrian Subject: [NSP] Re: arrogant Adrian - if you wish to insult people, please do so offlist. The rest of us (I hope I can safely generalise here) find it embarrassing. Anyone who wishes to contact me, please do so offlist for a while. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
However, I think we differ over the harpsichord's ability to play 'long-sustained'. I was having this discussion with my wife the other day (she plays keyboards rather better than I can), so I went to the harpsichord and tried it to check. Just like on a piano, if you hold a key down, the damper remains out of contact with the string, which sustains longer than it would if you released the key immediately. Not as long as on the piano of course, but there's a difference between staccatissimo and simple separation. Maybe the term should be short-sustained. As regards detached fingering, it's interesting that the term détaché when applied to bowing of a string instrument does not imply a silence between the notes. It merely means that you change bow direction for each note, making a fresh start, rather than slurring two or more together. The on-the-string bowing with a silence between notes is called martelé. Staccato means separating notes with a silence while staying on the string but not changing the direction of the bow. Then of course there's all the off-the-string stuff. Staccato in Italian means separated. It does not mean short. Playing NSP with a fresh start to each note but not necessarily a clearly audible silence can sound very pleasant, at least to my ears, and of course you need to be able to do the staccatissimo in the first place to do it reliably because the timing has to be phenomenally precise. The look mummy, no legato (or dripping tap) way of playing just sounds like a technical exercise. To do a good détaché it helps to have a good martelé to begin with. I would argue that the martelé was the basic stroke just like the staccato is the basic way of playing NSP. C To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Joe Hutton seemed a bit lukewarm about that. Joe didn't exactly play ultrastaccato, did he? C I'd forgotten that remark about the skeletons. Thanks for reminding! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
using all the vocabulary an instrument can offer rather than cutting a bit out because it's heretical. Yes!!! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Oh the perils of using a short-hand term carelessly! OK, I shouldn't have called it staccato, I was merely characterising the general sound difference between piano and plucked keyboard instruments to make my point, a dangerous and un-scholarly thing to do :) And all you say is of course quite true. And I've just learned a new word - didn't know martele until now. Thanks. Best wishes, Richard. On 20/06/2011 09:34, [1]christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: However, I think we differ over the harpsichord's ability to play 'long-sustained'. I was having this discussion with my wife the other day (she plays keyboards rat her better than I can), so I went to the harpsichord and tried it to check. Just like on a piano, if you hold a key down, the damper remains out of contact with the string, which sustains longer than it would if you released the key immedia tely. Not as long as on the piano of course, but there's a difference between st accatissimo and simple separation. Maybe the term should be short-sustained. As regards detached fingering, it's interesting that the term detache when a pplied to bowing of a string instrument does not imply a silence between the not es. It merely means that you change bow direction for each note, making a fresh start, rather than slurring two or more together. The on-the-string bowing with a silence between notes is called martele. Staccato means separating notes w ith a silence while staying on the string but not changing the direction of the bow. Then of course there's all the off-the-string stuff. Staccato in Italian means separated. It does not mean short. Playing NSP with a fresh start to each note but not necessarily a clearly audibl e silence can sound very pleasant, at least to my ears, and of course you need t o be able to do the staccatissimo in the first place to do it reliably because t he timing has to be phenomenally precise. The look mummy, no legato (or drippi ng tap) way of playing just sounds like a technical exercise. To do a good detac he it helps to have a good martele to begin with. I would argue that the martele was the basic stroke just like the staccato is the basic way of playing NSP. C --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: [2]http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID =pav_10246SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings \Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- -- References 1. mailto:christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu 2. http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_10246SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
OK, I shouldn't have called it staccato, Unfortunately some people do seem to think staccato means short. C -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
On 20 Jun 2011, at 09:34, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: However, I think we differ over the harpsichord's ability to play 'long-sustained'. I was having this discussion with my wife the other day (she plays keyboards rather better than I can), so I went to the harpsichord and tried it to check. Just like on a piano, if you hold a key down, the damper remains out of contact with the string, which sustains longer than it would if you released the key immediately. Not as long as on the piano of course, but there's a difference between staccatissimo and simple separation. Maybe the term should be short-sustained. As regards detached fingering, it's interesting that the term détaché when applied to bowing of a string instrument does not imply a silence between the notes. It merely means that you change bow direction for each note, making a fresh start, rather than slurring two or more together. The on-the-string bowing with a silence between notes is called martelé. Staccato means separating notes with a silence while staying on the string but not changing the direction of the bow. Then of course there's all the off-the-string stuff. Staccato in Italian means separated. It does not mean short. Playing NSP with a fresh start to each note but not necessarily a clearly audible silence can sound very pleasant, at least to my ears, and of course you need to be able to do the staccatissimo in the first place to do it reliably because the timing has to be phenomenally precise. The look mummy, no legato (or dripping tap) way of playing just sounds like a technical exercise. To do a good détaché it helps to have a good martelé to begin with. I would argue that the martelé was the basic stroke just like the staccato is the basic way of playing NSP. C To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Quoting christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu: OK, I shouldn't have called it staccato, Unfortunately some people do seem to think staccato means short. Chris, May I point you to the Dolmetsch dictionary http://www.dolmetsch.com/defss4.htm Personally, staccato is a word I use for musical effects and never for a piping style. I think it merely confuses matters. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Yesterday's NSP session
We had a great Junuary session yesterday here in the Pacific Northwest. We had two sessions going at one point with G pipes and concertina in one room, and F sets in the other. Although only one or two of the group (not me) can play popping fast runs like Chris, Adrian and Alice, we had fun and unselfconsciously played with the best technique we can muster, which is our norm. One of the best pipers among us suggested that we, in light of recent discussion here, perhaps, play in a more proper style than some of the folks in the Old Country. It would never occur to us to distinguish our way of playing by calling it proper. It is just what it is, and it is as good as it is because we have had excellent teachers, namely Ian Lawther. I don't fully understand Adrian's argument, and reacted to the vitriol more than to the substance (perhaps over-reacted). At any rate, I have a new sense of self-worth as a piper in the Northumbrian tradition(s) because of this insight that we here are unselfconsciously participating in the tradition(s). If you were born into a Northumbrian musical tradition you are very fortunate, yet there is a lot of satisfaction in realizing after decades of wandering in the wilderness that we here are not pretenders but members. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Barry, stacc. abbreviated form of staccato (Italian: detached, separated) staccare(Italian) to detach, to separate each note The word has its natural meaning, in other words. Stacatissimo is what some people think it means, but it doesn't! John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of barr...@nspipes.co.uk [barr...@nspipes.co.uk] Sent: 20 June 2011 17:53 To: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Cc: rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead Quoting christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu: OK, I shouldn't have called it staccato, Unfortunately some people do seem to think staccato means short. Chris, May I point you to the Dolmetsch dictionary http://www.dolmetsch.com/defss4.htm Personally, staccato is a word I use for musical effects and never for a piping style. I think it merely confuses matters. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
