[NSP] Re: Harvest tunes
Goswick Kirn - ideal for a kirn (or harvest) supper Margaret To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
I spent some time with John Armstrong c.1979/1980 playing tunes and going through his wonderful piles of mss. He was very kind and encouraging to a (then) young piper, and passed on some invaluable insights into how he played and what he thought about tunes. Unfortunately I don't have any record of playing the Morpeth Rant with him. I do remember that John was sometimes unsure of a tune from its title, but once the first notes were played, he knew exactly what it was. Similarly, the question 'How does it gan?' that Jimmy Little often asked when playing with Dishalagie was followed by an instant recall of the tune once it started. Best wishes Margaret -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle Sent: 14 July 2011 22:04 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe To make it absolutely clear, it was not I who attached the name Shield's to the soundclip. Whether the source - JA of C - gave it that title, I don't know. This is not impossible given the Clough connection. The FARNE Core Tunes article on Morpeth Rant (not my work) also gives the Shield attribution. On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Gibbons, John [1]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: But isn't Matt just quoting the Cloughs' title there? Beware of secondary sources, in other words - they don't corroborate where they are drawn from. A citation of 'The Morpeth Rant' (new or old) from anyone but the Cloughs, with the Shields' title, from pre-1900 would be interesting - one from anywhere near as far back as 1770, when 'The Morpeth Rant' made its first virtual appearance, would be astonishing. John -- References 1. mailto:j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Pipes workshops/sessions
There are still some places available for the next three workshops looking at more north Northumbrian tunes for pipes and other instruments. Pipes pitch sessions are on Saturday 9 July and Thursday 28 July, both from 2.00 - 4.00pm in the Parish Church Room, Embleton, Northumberland. Concert pitch session is on Saturday 27 August from 2.00 - 4.00pm at the same venue. Cost: -L-8 including refreshments and music. Contact me offlist for more details if you're interested. Best wishes Margaret -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads
I suspect both these tunes are based on the old north Northumbrian air 'The Throttlin' of the Reeds/Reids' Best wishes Margaret -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Gibbons, John Sent: 17 January 2011 12:46 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads Richard, Your discovery is a good one, but the rhythm of the title ''The Rotting of the Cotton Threads'' is so clearly a Strathspey, as Francis noted, that I looked elsewhere in the archive. On a moth eaten, yellowing, and (Speyside) whisky-stained sheet of paper I found: X:2 T: The Rotting of the Cotton Threads C:Trad? M:4/4 Q:1/4=60 L:1/8 K:A dor g.||:f/| eA Ac bD EB| ef ge Be B/Ge/|eA Ac bD EB| cd e/d/c/d/ eA A. :| c/|ef ea ac de| fg af dA fd| ef ea ac df| ef g/f/e/d/ eA A.|| c/|ef ea ac de| fg af be fd|(3 efg (3 agf (3 gfe (3fed| ef g/f/e/d/ eA A.|| ||:f/|ec eA GB EB|eB gB e/d/c/B/ cf|ec eA GB EB|eB g/f/e/d/ eA A.:|| G/|EF EA CE A,C|EG Ac dA fd| EF EA CE A,c|ef g/f/e/d/ eA A.|| G/|EF EA CE A,C|EG Ac dA fa| (3bag (3agf (3gfe (3fed| ef g/f/e/d/ eA A.|| Perhaps this is the one Francis was thinking of?? The title rhythm certainly fits the first bar, so perhaps someone can also discover the missing lyric John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Richard York Sent: 16 January 2011 22:54 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads In fact I'm sure it would have made more sense with the sections in reverse order. But there you are, that's how I found it. R. On 16/01/2011 22:45, Richard York wrote: Arduous research in dusty attics and archives has revealed, Francis, that I regret it's not a strathspey, more a sort of rhythmic unravelling. I couldn't find anything called The Rotting of the Cotton Threads as such, but this obviously fairly corrupt version called The Rotting of the Threads, which is pretty close, I'm sure you'll agree, turned up among the yellowing manuscripts. It will be seen that the rhythms perhaps reflect the progressive degeneration of the instrument... though I feel that the copyist has perhaps put them in reverse order, so that rather than losing a beat each time, the idee fixe actually gains one. Strange, and rather sad, really. It was hard to read the writing, but I think I transcribed it correctly. If anyone has a better written out version I'll be delighted to see it. I copy it below in abc's X:1 T: The Rotting of the Threads C:Trad? M:3/4 Q:120 L:1/8 K:G |:.gA.g.c e/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gB d/2B/2A/2G/2|.EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2|.DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:| M:7/8 |: .gA.gB.c e/2d/2c/2B/2|.gA.gA.B d/2B/2A/2G/2|\ M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 | .DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:4/4 .gA.gA B.ce/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gA B.cd/2B/2A/G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 |. DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:9/8 .gAg .ABc .ee/2c/2B/2A/2|.gAg .ABc .dd/2B/2A/2G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2| .DABc .d/2B/2A/2G/2:| Best wishes, Richard. On 15/01/2011 00:07, Francis Wood wrote: A Strathspey, surely? Francis On 14 Jan 2011, at 23:57, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: Is 'The rotting of the cotton threads' the title of a tune I haven't learned yet? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Skinny-piping
Cold and Raw? Margaret -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Sweet Salt Water tune collection
One or two people have posed the question: How much duplication is there of tunes in previous publications? A brief answer is - not much! For those wanting more detail: of the 52 tunes, half are previously unpublished - mostly old tunes - and eight others come from my book `Dishalagie', out of print since 1990. Six more appear in Alnwick Piper's Society (mostly tunes by Dad or me). This leaves eight tunes from our repertoire which as far as I know don't appear in any volumes of Northumbrian music, and four others which are our versions of `Grace Darling', `Little Fishie', `Tweedside' and `Chickens and Sparrow Grass'. All seconds are previously unpublished. Hope this helps. Best wishes Margaret -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Jack Dodd
Jack Dodd is my father. Now aged 84, he doesn't play the banjo much, and the pipes even less, but occasionally a new tune comes into his head (though he's never mastered the art of writing the dots). He still has an incredible memory for all kinds of music that he heard in his youth! I'm happy to share more information about him and his tunes, on or off the list. Margaret John Dally wrote: Playing through some of Jack Dodd's tunes today, I wondered if anyone on the list could tell me about him, or send me to some resource on the web that might have information about him. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: kipper box
I've a clear mental image of seeing somewhere, a photograph of an old street musician playing what looked very like a strung kipper box. He was holding it like a fiddle. I'm sure the staff at the Irish Traditional Music Archive would be able to help with this query, Dru. My apologies for introducing a non-piping flavour with the `kipper box' reference in my original posting. It's a phrase common in our family to describe a fiddle that sounds distinctly ropey - my great great aunt Nellie from Woodhorn used it when talking about a local fiddle player, and it's stuck ever since. Margaret -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
Anthony is absolutely right about Willie Taylor's dislike of tuning down a fiddle; the 'knicker-elastic' comment is one he used frequently. When I'm playing duets with Andy's nsp, I always tune down. For me, I've spent a long time trying to find the right fiddle and strings so it doesn't sound like a kipper-box (or I hope it doesn't) when tuned lower. In my opinion, it's about trying to find a sound quality/timbre/call it what you will, that sounds right with the particular set of pipes you're playing with. That's the case with any two instruments playing together, of course. The only time I ever heard Joe play the fiddle was when he was about to leave my parents' house late one evening and had boxed up his pipes, only to hear the rest of us start on a tune that happened to be a favourite of his. He picked my fiddle off the top of the piano and played along till the end of the set, when Hannah decided it was definitely home time! Margaret To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Sliabh na m'bhan (was Gaelic Pronunciation)
Joe Hutton played this tune in the early 1980s, and that's where I learned it - his version was basically the same as Gay McKeon's. When I asked him where he got the tune, he couldn't remember. Somewhere I have a poor quality cassette recording of Joe and me playing it at one of the house sessions we used to have in those days. Happy days. Margaret -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file
I've found the recent comments about music in north Northumberland very interesting. I grew up among those who learned and played by ear (Joe Hutton, Will Atkinson, Jimmy Little, the Cheviot Ranters band in its various line-ups, and my dad, among many others) and owe them a great deal - including dozens of splendid tunes which still live in my head, if not on paper. When I was learning the pipes in 1974/75 with Joe at Alnwick Pipers Society, it was clear that he could also 'read the dots' when necessary. George Mitchell of the Cheviot Ranters was a very competent (and beautifully neat) amanuensis for other members of the band, and it's evident from some of the old sheets of manuscript I have that Willy Miller (fiddle player) could also jot down a tune when necessary. There are a few wonderful hand-written manuscripts from north Northumberland from the early and mid nineteenth century which indicate that some ordinary folk were competent music readers and writers. William Dobson of West Thirston (a joiner and fishing rod maker) filled his manuscript book with favourite tunes for the fiddle, including second parts for some melodies, beautifully written over a period of at least thirty years. The inclusion of about 20 hymn and metrical psalm tunes notated in up to four parts in a West Gallery style (tune often in the tenor line) indicates that he had some connection with a non-conformist chapel. William Darling of Bamburgh (c. 1810) also kept a manuscript book. His own attempts at composition are sometimes rudimentary - bar lines in the wrong place, note lengths not always accurate etc - but he clearly understood the basic principles of notation, as did John Readshaw and George Wallace, just over the border into Cumbria. So there's definitely evidence of people being able to read/notate music in north Northumberland, as well as plenty of examples of those who play (or played) by ear. Best wishes Margaret PS As Anthony pointed out in a different thread, the school song of the former Duchess's Grammar School in Alnwick was Chevy Chase, the first and last verses of which we sang at every prize giving. If the duchess took too long to process through the hall and reach the platform, we were instructed to sing the first verse again - nobody thought of teaching us the remaining 90+!! From: Anthony Robb [mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 02 November 2009 09:32 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Paul Gretton Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file Dear Paul As Philip G. points out, some good points but hardly germane. I think I made it clear that I was speaking very particularly, in fact here is the quote from my original email refering to the region I was focussing on, the outlying districts of north Northumberland. I was talking about the people I lived amongst and were the traditional players of north Northumberland, i.e. the people at the heart of the discussion. None of the 20th century musical heavyweights from that region were dots readers and had all learnt by ear as had their predecessors. It was not a general statement; it was a particular one of importance to those discussing the music of Northumberland in terms of notated music and drawing conclusions from it. Cheers Anthony --- On Sun, 1/11/09, Paul Gretton i...@gretton-willems.com wrote: From: Paul Gretton i...@gretton-willems.com Subject: [NSP] Re: [BULK] Re: [nsp] file To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 1 November, 2009, 6:20 PM Anthony Robb wrote: dot reading was an extremely rare skill at the time If you mean specifically among players of the NSP (or the fiddle, then perhaps - I wouldn't know. But if you mean in general, then that is a far too sweeping statement. Musical literacy was my no means uncommon, even among the working class. You are ignoring the influence of the Sunday school system, particularly among Nonconformists, and the self-improvement movement among the so-called better working class, with the miners being among the leaders. Large numbers of ordinary people could read music - witness the great Handel festivals and organisations like the Huddersfield Choral Society. Cheers, Paul Gretton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ NOD32 4565 (20091102) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
[NSP] Re: Tune title spelling
APPELBOLATEN should be Äppelbolåten, though my Swedish publications (and friends!) all call the tune Gånglåt från Äppelbo - which simply means 'Walking tune from Äppelbo'. It's a tune from Dalarna, usually associated with a fiddle player called Ärtbergs Kalle (1826-1917) Margaret -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dave S Sent: 18 August 2009 21:20 To: julia@nspipes.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Tune title spelling Hi Julia, here's one --- [1]Tune Req: Ganglat Fran Mockfjard Gaerdebylaaten appears in this book on the same page as another popular Swedish Tune Aeppelbolaaten (Appelbolaten). I also have Nick Barber's English Choice . Julia Say wrote: Can anyone tell me where the letters with dots over and suchlike should go in the tune title APPELBOLATEN (it's Swedish). I have it handwritten, twice and differently, from various sources, and I don't trust either rendition. Thanks Julia -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
If anyone would like to learn some tunes linked to North Northumberland, Andy and I are running four workshops and linked concerts over the summer months in various venues along the Northumberland coast. Learn the tunes in the workshop and join in playing them in the evening concert if you feel brave enough! We'll be including some tunes from old fiddle sources (William Dobson of Thirston; William Darling of Bamburgh and the Farnes; John Readshaw of Alston). The workshops are for concert pitch (or as near as you can get!) instruments so G pipes are welcome. Contact us offlist at i...@pipesandfiddle.co.uk for details. We'll be learning by ear, but will also have the 'dots' to take away - how's that for a compromise? Margaret To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
