[NSP] Re: Was: this list is safer now//speed
Interestingly (to me at least) classical musicians and critics tend to use preserving the dance character (of, say, Bach's partitas for solo violin) to mean not playing too slowly. My experience of playing for dancing (morris, scottish, rocknroll) tells me it should mean not playing too fast. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Was: this list is safer now//speed
I'm still bashing away at Peacock, and only recently took note of the metronome settings in the recent edition, some of which are, to me, stratospherically fast. I have never taken note of them so can't comment. What I eventually took note of was the remark of Thomas Bewick quoted in the earlier NPS facsimile reprint (my copy is now falling apart but treasured) - with his old tunes, his lilts, his pauses, and his variations, I was always excessively pleased. Somewhere else it is written that Peacock was the best player of his day, though not a scientific performer (correct me if needed). I strongly suspect that there is a literal meaning to 'pauses' here; in the slower tunes based on song airs, imitate what a singer does with the last note of a line by holding the last note of a phrase. This requires a sensitivity to music beyond reading the dots, and is an aspect of expression (not to be confused with self-expression). It can be overdone of course, but an absence of passion - or any emotional involvement - will leave us cold. For the faster tunes I don't think there is necessarily an optimum speed for a Peacock tune or anything else, it depends on the occasion, the company, the available 'juice' (NOT the liquid kind). Richard Y mentioned All The Niight I Lay With Jockey - I'd recommend you also listen to Chris Ormston's recording. I play this tune on Border pipes (not NSP) and one thing I noticed recently was how the arpeggios in the last strain - which I previously thought of as mere padding - can come alive if the initial note of four is held as long as possible without making the next three impossible - does this work for any NSP players here? There's also the Clough procedure, which Chris does in his repeat, of filling out the arpeggio, B/c/dgd rather than Bcgd. There are other ways of varying what appears to be the most boring part of the tune, and there are other versions of this (and other Peacock) tunes which cast more light, much needed in the absence of a living culture of variation playing. (A word of caution - this tune has been misunderstood by some players who incomprehensibly treat it as an A minor tune and play it with inappropriate drone tuning, a recommendation thankfully not repeated in the 1999 edition.) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Was: this list is safer now//speed
in case you didn't spot my mistake B/c/dgd rather than Bcgd should read B/c/dgd rather than Bdgd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Was: this list is safer now//speed
In the original reprint of the Peacock Tunes I did not indicate metronome markings and I am not sure if I was involved in setting them for the current reprint. I had felt it was useful to indicate something for new players not familiar with the idiom and generally erred on the slower side of the playing speed as there was a tendency to play the tunes and particularly the airs with variations too fast encouraged by the appearance of all those semi-quavers as the variations developed. I know of one player who is still convinced they should be played at break-neck speed but as I got to know the tunes I realised that a steady march tempo was all that was needed as long as you got the pulse right. The 120 marking for 'All the Night' is a little too fast I agree but it depends how you are feeling and what time of day you are playing the tune. With all the metronome markings a small percentage either way will get you where you want to be and the markings are useful in that respect. Colin R -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Was: this list is safer now//speed
Hi Matt, et al, Dick HensoldSt. Paul, MN 651/646-6581 Traditional Folk Music, Early Music, and Cambodian Music Northumbrian smallpipes, recorder, Medieval greatpipes,Swedish sackpipa, beyaw. [1]www.dickhensold.com On Jun 10, 2009, at 5:14 AM, Matt Seattle wrote: ...Richard Y mentioned All The Niight I Lay With Jockey - I'd recommend you also listen to Chris Ormston's recording. I play this tune on Border pipes (not NSP) and one thing I noticed recently was how the arpeggios in the last strain - which I previously thought of as mere padding - can come alive if the initial note of four is held as long as possible without making the next three impossible - does this work for any NSP players here? There's also the Clough procedure, which Chris does in his repeat, of filling out the arpeggio, B/c/dgd rather than Bcgd. There are other ways of varying what appears to be the most boring part of the tune... I thought that was what I did with that variation-- it's typical of what I would do. But when I listened to my recording, a clip of which is available at: [2]http://www.dickhensold.com/mp3s/All_the_Night_I_Lay_with_Jockey.mp3 , I found I did something different. BTW, I don't consider that strain to be mere padding. The previous strain is sweeping scalar figures, emphasizing melodic contour, and the strain in question contrasts the previous one by using the repeated arpeggios to emphasize the beat, which is what I try to do in my version. The repeated Bs, which fall on the beat, help to emphasize it since B's are sort of a live note on our pipes, owing to the particular resonance the B has with the drone. As it happens, my rhythmic treatment of this strain is also an example of the kind of rhythmic subtlety I was referring to in my first post, and can serve for a pedagogical experiment, if you'll please bear with me. This experiment would give some idea of the effectiveness of directed listening for ear-training. Here's how it would work: Listen to the clip above, especially strain 6 (which starts at about 1:01 in the clip, and goes to the end of it), and try to hear what I'm doing with the rhythm to emphasize the beat. In a later email, I will describe what I'm doing. If my description matches your observation, you would be in group A. If you're not quite sure what I'm up to (rhythmically, that is), or the description DOESN'T match, listen to the clip again and see if having read the description makes it possible for you to hear the rhythms described. If, after reading the description, you can then hear what I'm doing with the rhythm, then you would be in group B. If, after reading the description, you CANNOT hear what I'm doing with the rhythm, then you would be in group C. You could then all email me off-list and tell me what group you're in, and I would count how many were in each group. I would then be able to tell by the numbers in each group whether the description (or directed listening) was effective. I'm guessing it would take you 5-10 minutes to do this (assuming you listened to the 15 seconds in question several times). The description will be in a following email. I really appreciate anyone who takes part in this impromptu, unscientific, ad hoc little experiment. I think often about trying to explain music to people, and I really hate wasting everyone's time when the explanation isn't working! -- References 1. http://www.dickhensold.com/ 2. http://www.dickhensold.com/mp3s/All_the_Night_I_Lay_with_Jockey.mp3 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Was: this list is safer now//speed
Thanks Richard - I agree with much of this, though I feel it needs to be the right speed, rather than just speed. I have played other instruments for various sorts of dance, both traditional historical, for a long time now, where indeed the dancers need to be able to rely on the right energy. Sometimes this seems to be better provided by strong rhythm and time to allow them to move in an enjoyable way rather than feeling they're doing a sprint. I realise it all depends on the nature of the dance, and don't get the chance to play for Northumbrian dancers, or dances, which I realise may need quicker stepping, so I can't yet speak for this. Hence my question about the speeds given in Peacock - not criticism, just a question, I hasten to add. In the case of, for example, Morris, which I realise is a very different kettle of fish, more energy is often provided by playing slower, when they can make bigger movements, rather than keeping them to short quick steps which frustrates them. By the way, for those into nerdy counting, All the Night I Lay with Jockey is given a figure of 120 bpm in the new Peacock. Pauline Cato's New Tyne Bridge CD makes it sound relaxed and cheerful and quite fast enough at 116, Andy May's Happy Hours CD comes in at 108. I'm not suggesting it's a race. Both are great musically, both sound lively enough to my ear. Both, incidentally, are also obviously within their comfort zone, as discussed in an earlier string, and make it sound as if they're actually playing slower! All ye best, Richard Y Richard Shuttleworth wrote: Hello Richard, A distinction should be made between playing for dances and playing for pleasure. Dancers need the music to be quite fast otherwise they feel clumsy and uncoordinated; to move along and feel light on their feet they need speed - which the player has to provide. When the piper is simply playing for his/her own pleasure then the music can take over and set its own tempo. Cheers, Richard S. Richard York wrote: I find this very reassuring, Matt! I'm still bashing away at Peacock, and only recently took note of the metronome settings in the recent edition, some of which are, to me, stratospherically fast. I've been wondering if these were based on general practice, either current or historical, or other evidence, or personal editorial preference. I know that in other traditional dance music I play, slow is often increasingly better, but was ascribing my falling well short of these target speeds here to my lack of nsp experience skill. - but I also noted that on some recent CD's I've heard, some of the pieces feel as if they're played slower than the figures given, and they feel right to my untutored southern ear. I'll have to go check now with CD metronome! Best wishes, Richard. Matt Seattle wrote: On 6/9/09, Di Jevons [1]d...@picklewood.info wrote: I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken for 'breakneck speed' Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho) incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig with any kind of lilt AND to play it fast, and you'll soon stop wanting to play it fast. This is so obvious to me now, but I admit it took me years to arrive at the obvious. Breakneck speed with accuracy IS impressive, as Paul points out with some irony; it is unattainable for many (self included), and more importantly - do you want to be impressed by music, or caressed by music? To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:d...@picklewood.info 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
