Re: [NTG-context] sorting languages

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 03/21/2017 06:44 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>> Pablo Rodriguez schrieb am 21. März 2017 um 18:19:
>> After updating to latest beta (2017.03.21 14:21), I’m afraid I still get
>> wrong alphabetic sorting for both Spanish and ancient Greek texts.
>> [...]
>> In the line above, isn’t "ὰ" replaced by two different values? Is this ok?
> 
> As I can see \setuplist[order=title] has no language specific settings.

Is there a way to specify the language?

Couldn’t it use by default \currentlanguage of the \placelist command?

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
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Re: [NTG-context] sorting languages

[Hans Hagen]

On 3/21/2017 6:19 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

On 03/21/2017 11:08 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 3/20/2017 10:45 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

On 03/20/2017 10:28 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

Diacritics don‘t affect to Greek alphabetic sorting. [...]


then you probably want replacements too:


After updating to latest beta (2017.03.21 14:21), I’m afraid I still get
wrong alphabetic sorting for both Spanish and ancient Greek texts.

See http://www.ousia.tk/grc-order.pdf (and its source file
http://www.ousia.tk/grc-order.tex).

In Spanish, acute accented vowels are sorted after their unaccented
versions.

In ancient Greek, some words are simply misplaced.

I don’t know what I am missing. In the suite, Linux 32bit contains
luateX-1.0.3. I don’t know whether this might affect to word sorting.

I must confess that I don’t understand why replacements require Greek
letters with diacritics to be converted to the Greek letter without
diacritic and a Latin character. Or why replacements are needed at all.

I mean, I understand that "ä", "ö", "ü" are sorted in German in three
different ways. But these are different letters, after all.


well, you want alphas with some diacretics to come out in a well defined 
order not some random way .. there's always some order needed



If diacritics don’t affect to sort order in Greek, which is the use of
the replacements?

  { "α", "αa" }, { "ά", "αb" }, { "ὰ", "αc" }, { "ὰ", "αd" }

In the line above, isn’t "ὰ" replaced by two different values? Is this ok?

Many thanks for your help,


Pablo
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Re: [NTG-context] sorting languages

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Pablo Rodriguez 
21. März 2017 um 18:19via Postbox 



After updating to latest beta (2017.03.21 14:21), I’m afraid I still get
wrong alphabetic sorting for both Spanish and ancient Greek texts.

See http://www.ousia.tk/grc-order.pdf (and its source file
http://www.ousia.tk/grc-order.tex).

In Spanish, acute accented vowels are sorted after their unaccented
versions.

In ancient Greek, some words are simply misplaced.

I don’t know what I am missing. In the suite, Linux 32bit contains
luateX-1.0.3. I don’t know whether this might affect to word sorting.

I must confess that I don’t understand why replacements require Greek
letters with diacritics to be converted to the Greek letter without
diacritic and a Latin character. Or why replacements are needed at all.

I mean, I understand that "ä", "ö", "ü" are sorted in German in three
different ways. But these are different letters, after all.

If diacritics don’t affect to sort order in Greek, which is the use of
the replacements?

{ "α", "αa" }, { "ά", "αb" }, { "ὰ", "αc" }, { "ὰ", "αd" }

In the line above, isn’t "ὰ" replaced by two different values? Is this ok?

As I can see \setuplist[order=title] has no language specific settings.

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] sorting languages

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 03/21/2017 11:08 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 3/20/2017 10:45 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> On 03/20/2017 10:28 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>>> Diacritics don‘t affect to Greek alphabetic sorting. [...]
> 
> then you probably want replacements too:

After updating to latest beta (2017.03.21 14:21), I’m afraid I still get
wrong alphabetic sorting for both Spanish and ancient Greek texts.

See http://www.ousia.tk/grc-order.pdf (and its source file
http://www.ousia.tk/grc-order.tex).

In Spanish, acute accented vowels are sorted after their unaccented
versions.

In ancient Greek, some words are simply misplaced.

I don’t know what I am missing. In the suite, Linux 32bit contains
luateX-1.0.3. I don’t know whether this might affect to word sorting.

I must confess that I don’t understand why replacements require Greek
letters with diacritics to be converted to the Greek letter without
diacritic and a Latin character. Or why replacements are needed at all.

I mean, I understand that "ä", "ö", "ü" are sorted in German in three
different ways. But these are different letters, after all.

If diacritics don’t affect to sort order in Greek, which is the use of
the replacements?

  { "α", "αa" }, { "ά", "αb" }, { "ὰ", "αc" }, { "ὰ", "αd" }

In the line above, isn’t "ὰ" replaced by two different values? Is this ok?

Many thanks for your help,


Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: [NTG-context] sorting languages

[Hans Hagen]

On 3/20/2017 10:45 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

On 03/20/2017 10:28 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

Diacritics don‘t affect to Greek alphabetic sorting. This sort order
makes more sense:

orders = {
"α", "β", "γ", "δ", "ε", "ζ", "η", "θ", "ι", "κ",
"λ", "μ", "ν", "ξ", "ο", "π", "ρ", "σ", "σ", "τ",
"υ", "φ", "χ", "ψ", "ω",
},


I made a mistake repeating the sigma (and not including the final
sigma). Corrected version:

orders = {
"α", "β", "γ", "δ", "ε", "ζ", "η", "θ", "ι", "κ",
"λ", "μ", "ν", "ξ", "ο", "π", "ρ", "σ", "ς", "τ",
"υ", "φ", "χ", "ψ", "ω",
},


then you probably want replacements too:

definitions["gr"] = {
replacements = {
{ "α", "αa" }, { "ά", "αb" }, { "ὰ", "αc" }, { "ὰ", "αd" }, { 
"ᾳ", "αe" },
{ "ἀ", "αf" }, { "ἁ", "αg" }, { "ἄ", "αh" }, { "ἂ", "αi" }, { 
"ἆ", "αj" },
{ "ἁ", "αk" }, { "ἅ", "αl" }, { "ἃ", "αm" }, { "ἇ", "αn" }, { 
"ᾁ", "αo" },
{ "ᾴ", "αp" }, { "ᾲ", "αq" }, { "ᾷ", "αr" }, { "ᾄ", "αs" }, { 
"ὰ", "αt" },

{ "ᾅ", "αu" }, { "ᾃ", "αv" }, { "ᾆ", "αw" }, { "ᾇ", "αx" },
{ "ε", "εa" }, { "έ", "εb" }, { "ὲ", "εc" }, { "ἐ", "εd" }, { 
"ἔ", "εe" },

{ "ἒ", "εf" }, { "ἑ", "εg" }, { "ἕ", "εh" }, { "ἓ", "εi" },
{ "η", "ηa" }, { "η", "ηb" }, { "ή", "ηc" }, { "ὴ", "ηd" }, { 
"ῆ", "ηe" },
{ "ῃ", "ηf" }, { "ἠ", "ηg" }, { "ἤ", "ηh" }, { "ἢ", "ηi" }, { 
"ἦ", "ηj" },
{ "ᾐ", "ηk" }, { "ἡ", "ηl" }, { "ἥ", "ηm" }, { "ἣ", "ηn" }, { 
"ἧ", "ηo" },
{ "ᾑ", "ηp" }, { "ῄ", "ηq" }, { "ῂ", "ηr" }, { "ῇ", "ηs" }, { 
"ᾔ", "ηt" },
{ "ᾒ", "ηu" }, { "ᾕ", "ηv" }, { "ᾓ", "ηw" }, { "ᾖ", "ηx" }, { 
"ᾗ", "ηy" },
{ "ι", "ιa" }, { "ί", "ιb" }, { "ὶ", "ιc" }, { "ῖ", "ιd" }, { 
"ἰ", "ιe" },
{ "ἴ", "ιf" }, { "ἲ", "ιg" }, { "ἶ", "ιh" }, { "ἱ", "ιi" }, { 
"ἵ", "ιj" },
{ "ἳ", "ιk" }, { "ἷ", "ιl" }, { "ϊ", "ιm" }, { "ΐ", "ιn" }, { 
"ῒ", "ιo" },

{ "ῗ", "ιp" },
{ "ο", "οa" }, { "ό", "οb" }, { "ὸ", "οc" }, { "ὀ", "οd" }, { 
"ὄ", "οe" },

{ "ὂ", "οf" }, { "ὁ", "οg" }, { "ὅ", "οh" }, { "ὃ", "οi" },
{ "ρ", "ρa" }, { "ῤ", "ῤb" }, { "ῥ", "ῥc" },
{ "υ", "υa" }, { "ύ", "υb" }, { "ὺ", "υc" }, { "ῦ", "υd" }, { 
"ὐ", "υe" },
{ "ὔ", "υf" }, { "ὒ", "υg" }, { "ὖ", "υh" }, { "ὑ", "υi" }, { 
"ὕ", "υj" },
{ "ὓ", "υk" }, { "ὗ", "υl" }, { "ϋ", "υm" }, { "ΰ", "υn" }, { 
"ῢ", "υo" },
{ "ω", "ωa" }, { "ώ", "ωb" }, { "ὼ", "ωc" }, { "ῶ", "ωd" }, { 
"ῳ", "ωe" },
{ "ὠ", "ωf" }, { "ὤ", "ωg" }, { "ὢ", "ωh" }, { "ὦ", "ωi" }, { 
"ᾠ", "ωj" },
{ "ὡ", "ωk" }, { "ὥ", "ωl" }, { "ὣ", "ωm" }, { "ὧ", "ωn" }, { 
"ᾡ", "ωo" },
{ "ῴ", "ωp" }, { "ῲ", "ωq" }, { "ῷ", "ωr" }, { "ᾤ", "ωs" }, { 
"ᾢ", "ωt" },

{ "ᾥ", "ωu" }, { "ᾣ", "ωv" }, { "ᾦ", "ωw" }, { "ᾧ", "ωx" },
},
entries = {
["α"] = "α", ["ά"] = "α", ["ὰ"] = "α", ["ᾶ"] = "α", ["ᾳ"] = "α",
["ἀ"] = "α", ["ἁ"] = "α", ["ἄ"] = "α", ["ἂ"] = "α", ["ἆ"] = "α",
["ἁ"] = "α", ["ἅ"] = "α", ["ἃ"] = "α", ["ἇ"] = "α", ["ᾁ"] = "α",
["ᾴ"] = "α", ["ᾲ"] = "α", ["ᾷ"] = "α", ["ᾄ"] = "α", ["ᾂ"] = "α",
["ᾅ"] = "α", ["ᾃ"] = "α", ["ᾆ"] = "α", ["ᾇ"] = "α", ["β"] = "β",
["γ"] = "γ", ["δ"] = "δ", ["ε"] = "ε", ["έ"] = "ε", ["ὲ"] = "ε",
["ἐ"] = "ε", ["ἔ"] = "ε", ["ἒ"] = "ε", ["ἑ"] = "ε", ["ἕ"] = "ε",
["ἓ"] = "ε", ["ζ"] = "ζ", ["η"] = "η", ["η"] = "η", ["ή"] = "η",
["ὴ"] = "η", ["ῆ"] = "η", ["ῃ"] = "η", ["ἠ"] = "η", ["ἤ"] = "η",
["ἢ"] = "η", ["ἦ"] = "η", ["ᾐ"] = "η", ["ἡ"] = "η", ["ἥ"] = "η",
["ἣ"] = "η", ["ἧ"] = "η", ["ᾑ"] = "η", ["ῄ"] = "η", ["ῂ"] = "η",
["ῇ"] = "η", ["ᾔ"] = "η", ["ᾒ"] = "η", ["ᾕ"] = "η", ["ᾓ"] = "η",
["ᾖ"] = "η", ["ᾗ"] = "η", ["θ"] = "θ", ["ι"] = "ι", ["ί"] = "ι",
["ὶ"] = "ι", ["ῖ"] = "ι", ["ἰ"] = "ι", ["ἴ"] = "ι", ["ἲ"] = "ι",
["ἶ"] = "ι", ["ἱ"] = "ι", ["ἵ"] = "ι", ["ἳ"] = "ι", ["ἷ"] = "ι",
["ϊ"] = "ι", ["ΐ"] = "ι", ["ῒ"] = "ι", ["ῗ"] = "ι", ["κ"] = "κ",
["λ"] = "λ", ["μ"] = "μ", ["ν"] = "ν", ["ξ"] = "ξ", ["ο"] = "ο",
["ό"] = "ο", ["ὸ"] = "ο", ["ὀ"] = "ο", ["ὄ"] = "ο", ["ὂ"] = "ο",
["ὁ"] = "ο", ["ὅ"] = "ο", ["ὃ"] = "ο", ["π"] = "π", ["ρ"] = "ρ",
["ῤ"] = "ῤ", ["ῥ"] = "ῥ", ["σ"] = "σ", ["ς"] = "ς", ["τ"] = "τ",
["υ"] = "υ", ["ύ"] = "υ", ["ὺ"] = "υ", ["ῦ"] = "υ", ["ὐ"] = "υ",
["ὔ"] = "υ", ["ὒ"] = "υ", ["ὖ"] = "υ", ["ὑ"] = "υ", ["ὕ"] = "υ",
["ὓ"] = "υ", ["ὗ"] = "υ", ["ϋ"] = "υ", ["ΰ"] = "υ", ["ῢ"] = "υ",
["ῧ"] = "υ", ["φ"] = "φ", ["χ"] = "χ", ["ψ"] = "ψ", ["ω"] = "ω",
["ώ"] = "ω", ["ὼ"] = "ω", ["ῶ"] = "ω", ["ῳ"] = "ω", ["ὠ"] = "ω",
["ὤ"] = "ω", ["ὢ"] = "ω", ["ὦ"] = "ω", ["ᾠ"] = "ω", ["ὡ"] = "ω",
["ὥ"] = "ω", ["ὣ"] = "ω", ["ὧ"] = "ω", ["ᾡ"] = "ω", ["ῴ"] = "ω",
["ῲ"] = "ω", ["ῷ"] = "ω", ["ᾤ"] = "ω", ["ᾢ"] = "ω", ["ᾥ"] = "ω",
["ᾣ"] = "ω", ["ᾦ"] = "ω", ["ᾧ"] = "ω",
},
orders = {
"α", "β", "γ", "δ", "ε", 

Re: [NTG-context] sorting languages

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 03/20/2017 10:28 PM, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
> Diacritics don‘t affect to Greek alphabetic sorting. This sort order
> makes more sense:
> 
> orders = {
> "α", "β", "γ", "δ", "ε", "ζ", "η", "θ", "ι", "κ",
> "λ", "μ", "ν", "ξ", "ο", "π", "ρ", "σ", "σ", "τ",
> "υ", "φ", "χ", "ψ", "ω",
> },

I made a mistake repeating the sigma (and not including the final
sigma). Corrected version:

orders = {
"α", "β", "γ", "δ", "ε", "ζ", "η", "θ", "ι", "κ",
"λ", "μ", "ν", "ξ", "ο", "π", "ρ", "σ", "ς", "τ",
"υ", "φ", "χ", "ψ", "ω",
},

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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[NTG-context] sorting languages

[Pablo Rodriguez]

Hans,

in the ouput at http://www.ousia.tk/grc-order.pdf, you can see that the
vocabulary list, in both Spanish and ancient Greek are wrong sorted.

After that, I discovered sort-lan.lua. There must be something else
interferring in the sorting, because I read this list in the linked
document: κατὰ, ἐκλαλεῖσθαι, κοινώσεσθαι, κρίσιν, κρίσιν, ἐκτὸς,
ἐκχωρήσω, ἐλευθέρων, λιθιῶντας (it isn’t following the order in
sort-lan.lua).

I have two improvements. One is for the Spanish sort order. Accents
don’t change sorting order:

orders = {
"a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f", "g", "h", "i", "j",
"k", "l", "m", "n", "ñ", "o", "p", "q", "r", "s",
"t", "u", "v", "w", "x", "y", "z",
}

Diacritics don‘t affect to Greek alphabetic sorting. This sort order
makes more sense:

orders = {
"α", "β", "γ", "δ", "ε", "ζ", "η", "θ", "ι", "κ",
"λ", "μ", "ν", "ξ", "ο", "π", "ρ", "σ", "σ", "τ",
"υ", "φ", "χ", "ψ", "ω",
},

Could those be added to ConTeXt?

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk
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